General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

[Mephisto]

So I've been playing (or reading, or viewing, or whatever the verb is for a visual novel) Fate/Stay Night, and have realized that

a) almost all of the things Caster does could be duplicated by a pre-archmastery Mage, albeit one with mastery of four or five Arcana.
b) the setting of FSN integrates pretty well with the World of Darkness.

Naturally I ended up thinking about how to run a Holy Grail War in the WoD. Servant summoning would use the rules from Summoners with some modifications to allow other supernaturals to summon. Servants would be equivalent to rank 4 or 5 spirits, significantly more powerful than average characters but not completely overpowered. After all,

Spoiler

Rin manages to blow Berserker's head off once, nulls Caster's magic and nearly beats her to death, and a buffed-up Kuzuki nearly kills Saber barehanded.

Current ideas for the Servant line-up:
Archer: ???
Assassin: Hassan-i-Sabbah as an Ascending One (Hunter)
Berserker: The Beast of Gevaudan (Werewolf) or Frankenstein's monster (Promethean)
Caster: generic mage of Atlantis
Lancer: Dracula or Longinus (Vampire)
Rider: Orpheus or Inanna (Sin-Eater)
Saber: Saint George (gender-flipped, of course) (Hunter)

Any suggestions or comments?

[Yuki Akuma]

I think Archer would work well as an Obrimos Adamantine Arrow. His schtick is creating stuff from nothing, right?

Edit: Wait, you mean OC Servants. Well I have no clue either, then.

[Sucrose]

Originally Posted by Mephisto

So I've been playing (or reading, or viewing, or whatever the verb is for a visual novel) Fate/Stay Night, and have realized that

a) almost all of the things Caster does could be duplicated by a pre-archmastery Mage, albeit one with mastery of four or five Arcana.
b) the setting of FSN integrates pretty well with the World of Darkness.

Naturally I ended up thinking about how to run a Holy Grail War in the WoD. Servant summoning would use the rules from Summoners with some modifications to allow other supernaturals to summon. Servants would be equivalent to rank 4 or 5 spirits, significantly more powerful than average characters but not completely overpowered. After all,

Spoiler

Rin manages to blow Berserker's head off once, nulls Caster's magic and nearly beats her to death, and a buffed-up Kuzuki nearly kills Saber barehanded.

Current ideas for the Servant line-up:
Archer: ???
Assassin: Hassan-i-Sabbah as an Ascending One (Hunter)
Berserker: The Beast of Gevaudan (Werewolf) or Frankenstein's monster (Promethean)
Caster: generic mage of Atlantis
Lancer: Dracula or Longinus (Vampire)
Rider: Orpheus or Inanna (Sin-Eater)
Saber: Saint George (gender-flipped, of course) (Hunter)

Any suggestions or comments?

I'm rather new to the WoD mythos (my first character hasn't even become any sort of supernatural yet), and don't know all that much about Fate/Stay Night, but Archer is defined by reliance upon weapons, right? Preferably long-ranged (though I know that the original Archer focuses on swords, he can at least throw them...)? I'd like to suggest the legendary Marine sniper Carlos Norman Hathcock II, having been recruited after Vietnam to serve in Task Force: VALKYRIE, and thus, even in the afterlife toting some pretty impressive armaments. Hunter, naturally.

(I'd suggest Simo Häyhä, but his date of birth would indicate that there probably wouldn't be as much high tech to draw upon with him.)

[Lord Raziere]

Hello everyone.

I got pretty much every single NWoD splatbook- Werewolf, Mage, Changeling, Promethean, Hunter and Geist.

so I'm thinking, I might as well round it out and get Vampire.

but here is where the classic problem comes in:

Masquerade or Requiem? I've searched the net, but I haven't found anything that gives me a clear answer as to which would be better for me.

as you can tell, I'm a newer player so…yeah, which would be better for me, a newer player to get? Masquerade or Requiem?

[masterjoda99]

Well, since it seems that you're of very much an nWoD bent, I would say Requiem, as that is the nWoD version of Vampire.

[Lord Raziere]

Waaaaiiit a minute.

I just saw the Vampire Translation Toolkit Bundle. not only is it cheaper than Requiem, it has Requiem AND Masquerade AND the translation guide in it!

screw choosing, I'm gonna get both books for less than half the price! with a savings of six bucks if I had just gotten Requiem-

Edit: wait no, it lied. Reqiuem it is.

[Lord_Gareth]

Originally Posted by Lord Raziere

Hello everyone.

I got pretty much every single NWoD splatbook- Werewolf, Mage, Changeling, Promethean, Hunter and Geist.

so I'm thinking, I might as well round it out and get Vampire.

but here is where the classic problem comes in:

Masquerade or Requiem? I've searched the net, but I haven't found anything that gives me a clear answer as to which would be better for me.

as you can tell, I'm a newer player so…yeah, which would be better for me, a newer player to get? Masquerade or Requiem?

Definitely Requiem. The Translation Guide helped clean up (some) of Masquerade's mechanics, but the fluff and setting and powers are still sloppier than a potato launcher loaded with Jell-O.

[Mephisto]

Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma

I think Archer would work well as an Obrimos Adamantine Arrow. His schtick is creating stuff from nothing, right?

Edit: Wait, you mean OC Servants. Well I have no clue either, then.

Actually, the Phantasmal Weapon spell can't create items with their own magic properties. Unlimited Blade Works would have to be an Imperial spell.

[Dr. J]

So long story short, I got myself in over my head, by agreeing to ST a nWOD game. It seems like this system is a bit more complicated than expected. I can't seem to figure out which books are necessary. Right now, my group is deciding between Werewolf, Vampire, and Mage. Which of these is easiest for group play? Also, where can I buy these books? The WW website returns errors. What supplements are important to each main book? Help?

[The Glyphstone]

...if you're running NWoD, the first book you need is the New World of Darkness core book. If your group insists on playing a type of supernatural right off the bat rather than base mortals (recommended for a new group), then you need that type's core splatbook - Vampire the Requiem, Werewolf the Forsaken, or Mage The Awakening. Any other books are purely optional bonus content.

Of those three, I'd suggest Werewolf personally - that is, if you're not willing to play base mortals. It has the highest level of expected group-cooperation and is probably the lowest power level for the three, though spirits can be complicated and confusing.

[Dr. J]

So people have changed their minds, and we have narrowed the supernatural down to Changeling or Werewolf. As the ST, I'm interesting in telling a combat light story, with a big overarching plot. Thoughts?

[ToySoldierCPlus]

As Glyphstone said, running simple mortals is by far your best bet as a new ST. But if your players are insisting on either Changeling or Werewolf, and you want a combat-light game, Changeling probably works better for that. Werewolves do lots of combat, and that's really all they're good at. You can do combat-light, sure, but combat is their main means of interacting with everyone around them.

That said, while Changeling lends itself better to combat-light games, it's noticeably more complex then Werewolf. So be warned: before you go into the game, you really want to know how the game works. Read through the core books, both World of Darkness and Changeling: the Lost, first, and don't let players pull from other books for you first game.

[Dr. J]

So I found a Changeling scenario online, and if everyone agrees, we'll probably start with that. I do have some experience DMing for DnD, so I'll spend some time in the books, and see what I can see.

[Dr. J]

Okay, so I'm reading this scenario, and I've got a few questions.

Actually, I have a scenario myself.

Okay, so.

I have a PC with a 5 in Strength, and a 3 in Weaponry. His opponent has a 3 in Defense. The PC has a +1 weapon. So, the PC would roll 6 dice. (8+1)-3. 8's count as successes, and below eights are failed. If the PC so chose, they could expend one point of Willpower, to add three extra dice to the pool, for a total of 9. (8+1+3)-9). Any results of ten are rerolled further, adding to the success pool if they succeed. Rolling stops once no tens are rolled.

I'm fairly sure I have that right, but my question is this. If the PC is attacked that turn, can he further expend one will to increase his defense, or is he limited, similarly to Glamour?

[ToySoldierCPlus]

He's limited. Page 133 of the World of Darkness rulebook states that only 1 willpower point can be spent per turn, regardless of how it's used. So, if your hypothetical strongman spent willpower to attack his opponent, he cannot then spend more willpower to bolster his defense against an incoming attack.

The reason for this, from a narrative perspective, is that, by spending a willpower point, you are throwing all of your effort into that action. Once you have done that, you cannot then throw the same level of effort into other actions.

[comicshorse]

Would wooden bullets work ? I have a feeling that they'd be too fragile and would disintegrate in the barrel but that is just a guess really. Anybody have nay better knowledge

[The Random NPC]

Originally Posted by comicshorse

Would wooden bullets work ? I have a feeling that they'd be too fragile and would disintegrate in the barrel but that is just a guess really. Anybody have nay better knowledge

Wooden bullets can work, but as a lot of a bullet's power comes from it's weight, they wouldn't travel as far or hit as hard. Mind, this is from reading stories off of the Internet and other fantasy books.

[Lord_Gareth]

Originally Posted by comicshorse

Would wooden bullets work ? I have a feeling that they'd be too fragile and would disintegrate in the barrel but that is just a guess really. Anybody have nay better knowledge

Wooden bullets tend to shake themselves apart and/or burn up and in any event won't penetrate far. A wood-core bullet likewise won't work, and slivers in a hollow-point are right out. Now, you could always use a hand crossbow, and the Hunter book has stats for a zip-stake, but my favorite method of "surprise, stake!" has always been to powder up some wood in a blender and offer it mixed into a drink to a vampire (especially effective if you have any Mandrakes).

[ToySoldierCPlus]

Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth

but my favorite method of "surprise, stake!" has always been to powder up some wood in a blender and offer it mixed into a drink to a vampire (especially effective if you have any Mandrakes).

How does that even work? The stake needs to go through the vampire's heart, not just be in their body.

[Lord Raziere]

nah, the real way, would be to powder up some wood and put in a steak for a vampire to eat.

and therefore kill the vampire with a wooden steak.

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth

Wooden bullets tend to shake themselves apart and/or burn up and in any event won't penetrate far. A wood-core bullet likewise won't work, and slivers in a hollow-point are right out. Now, you could always use a hand crossbow, and the Hunter book has stats for a zip-stake, but my favorite method of "surprise, stake!" has always been to powder up some wood in a blender and offer it mixed into a drink to a vampire (especially effective if you have any Mandrakes).

Yeah, I have no idea how this is supposed to do anything to the vampire.

[Sith_Happens]

Originally Posted by Lord Raziere

nah, the real way, would be to powder up some wood and put in a steak for a vampire to eat.

and therefore kill the vampire with a wooden steak.

"See, I told you it would work! It's common knowledge that vampires are cipplingly vulnerable to puns."

"And here I thought I was the only one."

[Lord Raziere]

and now I've got an idea for a texan Hunter who got confused over the spelling of "stake" and has carved some wood into the shape of a steak so he tries to go around and slay vampires by shoving a wooden steak through their heart.

[Lord_Gareth]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

Yeah, I have no idea how this is supposed to do anything to the vampire.

Well, ideally you mix it in with actual Vitae (hence the Mandrake thing) before a setting in which the blush of life is expected (a rave party, Elysium, whatever). They gain a heartbeat and then the powdered wood lodges in their heart tissue.

Stealth staking. Your storyteller may or may not approve.

[The Glyphstone]

Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth

Well, ideally you mix it in with actual Vitae (hence the Mandrake thing) before a setting in which the blush of life is expected (a rave party, Elysium, whatever). They gain a heartbeat and then the powdered wood lodges in their heart tissue.

Stealth staking. Your storyteller may or may not approve.

I don't think I've ever met a storyteller that would let that slide -not for the least because that's not a 'stealth staking' so much as an automatic instant kill, since the 'stake' can't be removed once it's in.

[Lord_Gareth]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

I don't think I've ever met a storyteller that would let that slide -not for the least because that's not a 'stealth staking' so much as an automatic instant kill, since the 'stake' can't be removed once it's in.

It worked great for me until I tried it on a closet Crone sorceress. When her ritual to destroy the stake went off she tracked me down and killed my character painfully.

[Eurus]

Does it ever explain why staking a vampire puts them to sleep? I know the sunlight thing is explained as a mystical weakness rather than a physiological one; VALKYRIE's gadget to emit light and radiation that's almost identical to sunlight might make a vamp go into fear frenzy, but won't actually ash it. But the stake thing, I'm not sure about. Is there some symbolic reason why a sharp piece of wood to the chest is significant, or is it a biological thing that "plant cells + vampire heart tissue = bad"?

[ToySoldierCPlus]

The winning answer is... No. The core book says that "Kindred offer a number of religious and occult theories for why wood has this power. Most Kindred simply accept it as a fact of life." It seems to be another case of, "Choose your own explanation that best fits your chronicle."

As for the powdered stake trick, I can think of another good reason it wouldn't work: the heart must be pierced by the stake. Tricking a vampire into drinking Vitae mixed with powdered wood and then invoking the Blush of Life wouldn't actually do anything unless your ST was being really generous.

[TheCountAlucard]

Even assuming the Kindred could keep it down in the first place; after all, just because he orders a so-rare-it's-bloody T-bone doesn't mean he's going to be able to avoid the part where he brings it up.

[Morty]

Task Force: Valkyrie actually has access to wooden bullets. They're made of soft splinters around a mistletoe core. They deal a limited amount of lethal damage to vampires and called shots can stake them from a distance.