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2012-10-14, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
Bad enough to be #1 on Peter's Evil Overlord List (of things not to do)
Although slightly in Lucas' defense, albeit perhaps via retcon, being clones all of the storm troopers are identical so invidually recognizing them is slightly less a factor. The point about a total stranger masquerading as one still stands of course, to say nothing Luke being the wrong size. Heck, Leia even hung a lampshade on it, and if it's obvious to her, why didn't anyone else notice?ChowGuy - The LaChoy Dragon - Servant of the Tiger and disciple of the Wanderer
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2012-10-14, 05:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
because the clones thing is a total retcon. The line by Leia is just ragging on him for being scrawny. :P
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2012-10-14, 05:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- In the mind.
Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
If you want a OotS style Touhou avatar, send me a request.
Steam name: memnarch. Same avatar.
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2012-10-14, 06:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
Not one single time. That's what "retcon" means. It also negated just about everything written about stormtroopers in the EU, too.
The explanation (a retcon of a retcon if you will) is that stormtroopers stopped being clone-only sometime between Ep III and Ep IV and the Empire started recruiting normally and putting regular recruits through harsh training to become "elite" stormtroopers. I believe this was supposedly because the Kaminoans started holding out and changing the clones to be loyal to themselves instead, or at least I remember spending a level of Battlefront 2's story mode blowing up a floating city because of something like this.
Darths & Droids ignores all this so far because clonetroopers are inherently funnier.Last edited by Nerd-o-rama; 2012-10-14 at 06:40 PM.
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2012-10-14, 07:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
In the movies themselves? No, but an article for one of the magazines back in the late '70s mentioned them being clones.
http://www.theforce.net/image_popup/...a/post4-03.jpg
Some of that has changed obviously and was probably flavor text based on a generic note from Lucas, but the notion that they were clones was there more or less from the start.
The same magazine was also where the first mention arose of Obi-Wan fighting Vader on a volcanic planet with the latter becoming a cyborg afterwards.
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2012-10-14, 07:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
In the lore, Stormtroopers aren't simply infantry. They are shock troops and elite security forces. Encasing them in armor, with no differentiation, not only gives solid protection against gas or similar attacks (a modern soldier in full NBC gear is just as dehumanized) but turns them into the spirit of Empire made flesh, just as the Imperial class Star Destroyer is the face of the Empire to everything in space.
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2012-10-14, 10:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
Plus, it was definitely retconned at some point that Stormtroopers weren't all clones by the beginning of ANH, the actual Fett-clones were mostly reduced to a single (though super-duper-elite) battalion. Can't remember the name, but their nickname is Vader's Fist. The bulk of the stormtrooper units were ordinary recruits.
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2012-10-14, 11:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
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2012-10-15, 04:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
Sorry, I forgot how well sarcasm works over the internet...
That's quite an interesting article... So Lucas deliberately made a man squeeze into a tiny robot even though he had a perfectly well working real robot... genius.
I feel we are still not on a real agreement on the Stormtrooper retcon (or not). But then again, I don't think we ever will, unless one is willing to blindly trust what Lucas said. Though the article seems pretty convincing even though the "clones" vary in height at least.
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2012-10-15, 04:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
Also I see the "Jim has a plan" drinking game is still in effect.
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2012-10-15, 09:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
Thank you for taking a piece of my soul away. ;_;
well, I would take an article from an official SW publication before Empire even came out as definitely evidence that they were supposed to be clone troopers. Which is silly if they are the mainline troops (which, though they aren't in the concept material, they are depicted as), though I can totally buy an elite battalion of clone troops.
I don't suppose you have easy access to that Article RE the climatic battle on a volcanic planet?
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2012-10-15, 09:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2012-10-15, 10:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
It mentions that they had problems with the robotic version. Beyond mechanical problems (I've heard that the heat really worked on the radio-controlled version), I can kind of see Lucas' point about it looking a little too smooth in action. Artoo's rocking gait is kind of charming in a way and the three wheeled version doesn't have that quality.
Though the article seems pretty convincing even though the "clones" vary in height at least.
They're really more shocktroops/Marines than anything else, which makes sense really. The only Imperial facility we see in the entire OT that isn't space-based is the shield generator in RotJ and Palpatine specifically points out that he sent in elite troops to protect it.
We also see plenty of regular Imperial troops on the Death Star, but only stormtroopers during the chase. Not really surprising though since the Imperial Army soldiers might balk at throwing their lives away to make the pursuit look good while clones are less likely to question orders.
I don't suppose you have easy access to that Article RE the climatic battle on a volcanic planet?
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2012-10-16, 10:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
I don't know, I would think that there would also be regular infantry on, say, the assault on Hoth. Though that is pretty easily handwaved by budgetary/filming constraints
Thanks for that article. It was pretty interesting (I like how the article acts as though Vader actually killed Lukes father instead of being him :P)
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2012-10-17, 04:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
Hoth was an amphibious assault launched by the Death Squadron's naval infantry attachment.
Thanks for that article. It was pretty interesting (I like how the article acts as though Vader actually killed Lukes father instead of being him :P)
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2012-10-18, 08:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
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2012-10-18, 09:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
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2012-10-18, 08:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
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2012-10-20, 04:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-20, 06:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
It's actually in the A New Hope novelization, when Obi-Wan's explaining Vader to Luke:
"Vader used the training I gave him and the Force within him for evil, to help the later corrupt Emperors. With the Jedi Knights disbanded, disorganized, or dead, they were too few to oppose Vader. Today they are all but extinct."Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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2012-10-21, 05:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
wow, that is some good stuff. Though it makes you wonder how freakin old he is supposed to be!
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2012-10-22, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
I think that originally the position of "Emperor" was intended to be a succession of puppets, symbolic monarchs manipulated by lunatics like Vader and powerful military governors like Tarkin. Then once Lucas made money off the first movie, he retooled some of his backstory to make The Emperor the Big Bad and Vader a sympathetic (although still pretty insane) lackey.
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2012-10-22, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
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2012-10-22, 01:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
Been a while since I watched the trilogy, but IIRC the first instance of the Emperor being mentioned was in ESB when Vader pulls his ship out of the asteroid field to make a call without interference, and that call pretty well established that Vader was the subordinate.
Man this thing was full of outdated stuff.
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2012-10-22, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
Tarkin mentions the Emperor dissolving the Senate and I believe Obi-Wan mentions him as well.
The novelization has the Emperor rise to power because corporate interests and corrupt politicians thought that he was somebody easily manipulated, but Obi-Wan's talk with Luke makes it seem like Vader was the driving force in destroying the Jedi with the Emperor being much less important.
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2012-10-22, 08:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
The instrument perhaps, but that doesn't equate to being the leader. Leia, addressing Tarkin, remarks that she might have expectted to fin him "holding Vadar's leash" which pretty much confirms his position as somebody's subordinate and that he's only on loan to the governor. "The Emperor" is the only individual mentioned who's likely to have that kind of clout.
ChowGuy - The LaChoy Dragon - Servant of the Tiger and disciple of the Wanderer
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2012-10-23, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
Like the 70's magazine articles, I was referring more to earlier versions of the story which were revised and retooled to become the sprawling epic we know and love. My main point was that there was very little made canon about the Emperor(s) in A New Hope, and that when he finally became a character Lucas went in a different direction than he had been looking at previously to make him the main villain of the story, rather than Vader or the Imperial military command in general.
Last edited by Nerd-o-rama; 2012-10-23 at 09:29 AM.
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2012-10-28, 07:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
There are always good reasons for splitting the party... mostly because you need to do two things at the same time. Which... pretty common.
But yeah, it makes the game so much more complicated, especially if you try to play both groups separately...
Anyway, why would they send Ben off on his own? Because his character is highest level?
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2012-10-28, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
ChowGuy - The LaChoy Dragon - Servant of the Tiger and disciple of the Wanderer
The Hall of Wonders - HeavenGames Fantasy Role Playing and Creative Writing Forum.
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2012-10-30, 06:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report
Where do they get all those awesome Han Solo faces?
Also, never ever let Jim near your plans.In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.