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Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
Oh hey! Another cool feat I noticed: Outflank. Gives a +4 bonus to attack when flanking opponents. I'm making this the default teamwork feat for hobgoblin regulars.
I'm thinking of just posting a running list of changes as I run the campaign, since I'm too lazy to do a journal.
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Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthteej
Oh hey! Another cool feat I noticed: Outflank. Gives a +4 bonus to attack when flanking opponents. I'm making this the default teamwork feat for hobgoblin regulars.
I'm thinking of just posting a running list of changes as I run the campaign, since I'm too lazy to do a journal.
Consider Tactician Fighter for the veterans. Well, you could consider it for all hobgoblins, really.
Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthteej
But they're warriors, not fighters
Pathfinder tends to have most unnamed hobgoblins as fighters, actually. The example hobgoblin in the bestiary is a fighter, not a warrior, for example.
Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthteej
Oh hey! Another cool feat I noticed: Outflank. Gives a +4 bonus to attack when flanking opponents. I'm making this the default teamwork feat for hobgoblin regulars.
I'm thinking of just posting a running list of changes as I run the campaign, since I'm too lazy to do a journal.
Feel free. If they're going in this thread, I'll most likely wind up compiling them and chucking them at the front of the thread, since nobody else gives specifics of the changes they made to PF versions of RHOD.
Also, I just double-taked on Starbuck's suggestion that the Ghostlord bring back a ghost Varanthian...
This is an awesome idea, especially for parties who smugly go with the 15 minute adventuring day before confronting the Ghostlord proper. I'll have to give it more thought, and it probably does damage to the whole 'lion' theme of Ghostie, but let me chew this one over a while...
Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintheart
Feel free. If they're going in this thread, I'll most likely wind up compiling them and chucking them at the front of the thread, since nobody else gives specifics of the changes they made to PF versions of RHOD.
Also, I just double-taked on Starbuck's suggestion that the Ghostlord bring back a ghost Varanthian...
This is an awesome idea, especially for parties who smugly go with the 15 minute adventuring day before confronting the Ghostlord proper. I'll have to give it more thought, and it probably does damage to the whole 'lion' theme of Ghostie, but let me chew this one over a while...
Well, it just seems like a logical thing. Maybe he could add a mane to the ghost Varanthian, make it more lion-like?
Since party only in one encounter (1st yet): all I can offer for changes in practice:
In original Module, it suggests summoning a Hell Hound (SM 3 in 3.5, but SM 4 in PF) with a scroll by the cleric.
I made the Scroll of SM 3 used to summon a Dretch instead of a hell hound as Hell hounds are SM 4 unless you are a follower of Asmodeus (which conflicts with while Tiamat angle).
Stinking Cloud worked but only took 1 PC out for a few rounds (he failed DC 13 fort save).
I do have a PF idea (untested yet)
Spoiler
Gun on towers:
Give the Hobgoblins on the towers (made them Warrior 3) on Skull Bridge manned by guns like Hackbut instead of just using bows.
You don't need proficiency as you hit Touch AC likely, but you might have to worry about misfire rolls. Gave the ones up there Point Blank Shot, Far Shot (doubles range increment so farther range to hit Touch)
They will need to reload (full rd action) after 2 shots.
This is mostly due to imagery in my mind of the guns on the towers.
This change only works in DM allows non-advanced firearms, of course.
Pro: good hit chance (even with -4 unproficient hit)/dam is decent
Con: Misfire, reload
Power of Friendship for the Bridge:
Adding a level 1 or 2 Bard Hobgoblin provides all of enemy with bonus to hit/dam for a while for low CR.
Where is the stoneskin?
I gave Regiarix a vial of Stone salve (2 uses) so he can use one for Stoneskin. They leaves party with other use when they win (if they win).
It is a cheap magic item for its effect.
Won't change too much, but as he normally has DR/magic, it is better than nothing.
Blockade:
Put another pair of Hackbutt gun users here.
Doom Fist in the Ghost Lair:
Made them Monk 1/Magus 3 (black Blade): basically take a style feat (Tiger Style was my choice) that make unarmed slashing qualifying for Black blade archetype.
Thus they have a +1 unarmed strike (+2 from using Arcane Pool).
They also cast spells like Arcane mark (for spell combat), Shocking grasp, Chill touch, Shield, Grease (cast on a weapon makes it a disarm that hits reflex not CMD), etc.
I avoided the dragonfang chain thing as I am not big on humanoid grapples (I'm cool with monster doing it though).
Save the Walls:
Hackbutt men are protecting Giants (with a few regulars).
Abithrax’s Rampage:
4E version of Red Hand of Doom gave me idea to have a Gith (General Zithruun) ride the dragon.
Ideas were Summoner(Synthegist) 4 /Swiftblade 4 (waive which level Haste has to be, because Summoner gets it as a 2nd level not 3rd)
Without his Eidolon Suit he is a crippled old Gith (like the 4E one has him in a magical harness).
Won't add too much other than fact that riding the dragon means 1/rd you can use Mounted Combat to ignore an attack.
Also the spells the General will use.
Second Wave:
I'm thinking of including a Blade Troll along with the Blood Ghost Barbarians, but not sure if overkill.
Made the Blood Ghosts Titan Maulers with a Greataxe and a +1 Heavy Shield
Rage power was Superstition.
One thing someone mention to me is Ghostlord's lair reminds them of Mummra the "Ever-Living" taking over the Lion's Den (Thunder Cats' reference).
Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
Noting in due course.
In other news, my party's reached Brindol and is finally having a chat with the Defence Council, so I'll be updating with some insights into that process and that encounter as we go.
First one is this: it looks like I'll have to build some stuff because my party's looking at interdicting the Red Hand well ahead of the Battle of Brindol. These guys are level 10, so the Wizard has Teleport and a few other interesting tricks up his sleeve ... suggestions from people for encounters would be pretty cool. :)
One other thought I had is for a solution to the whole "It's bleeding obvious, why the hell would you fight a field battle and not stay behind the walls?" issue.
In short: make the decision whether Brindol's troops stay wholly behind the wall, or whether their cavalry sallies to attack the Red Hand in the field before it has a chance to settle down for a siege. This gives the (otherwise unmentioned) reinforcements from the north something to do, in that you can handwave them as about 150 or so light cavalry types. If you mount all of the Lions of Brindol (200 or so), that's 350 men -- which the defence council thinks is not a bad force to get a "snap punch" in against the Red Hand which is mostly if not wholly infantry. The cavalry plan is to sally via Brindol's south gate, wheel west, carve into the Red Hand's infantry flank and then retire to Brindol's western gate.
Having said that, the decision should still carry a consequence: a cavalry sally will still carry heavy losses to Brindol's troops, and the loss of VP that comes with it. Either way, this might be seen by your players as a slightly less moronic choice than between "commit to an entire field battle vs. do the common sense thing and stay behind". Maybe Captain Ulverth can volunteer to lead the cavalry attack, thus risking an NPC.
Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
So, in my RHoD campaign, the players just finished Chapter I. (Well, sort of.) It's a sort of because they failed to kill Ozyrandion or destroy the bridge. Hell, even Koth ran away before he could be face-stabbed. (They did get the giants, though.)So things are looking kind of dire for the people of the Vale.
I'm curious, has anyone else ever run this and failed to have the bridge get taken down? I'm fairly certain that every journal I've read has had the Bridge get nuked.
Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyMantle
So, in my RHoD campaign, the players just finished Chapter I. (Well, sort of.) It's a sort of because they failed to kill Ozyrandion or destroy the bridge. Hell, even Koth ran away before he could be face-stabbed. (They did get the giants, though.)So things are looking kind of dire for the people of the Vale.
I'm curious, has anyone else ever run this and failed to have the bridge get taken down? I'm fairly certain that every journal I've read has had the Bridge get nuked.
Did they not have enough sunderers?
Was the Bridge too hard?
Without the bridge destroyed the Hand will arrive quicker than it should (day 8they arrive at bridge; if Bridge destroyed Hand must take long way around so 3 days more to cross to attack).
They must fight him Chapter 5 back at the Red Hand home base (possibly in invasion as well).
With Giants (delay by 2), they means delayed from Ferry's destruction till day 14 (If Koth defeated [delay 1] makes it day 15, Bridge (delay 3) makes it 18 days of peace before the storm). So the party lost 4 days no biggie overall.
Are the party planning to spend their extra days on hit/runs on bridge or are they already past day 14 to get Ferry's butt out of there?
Without mounts it is easy to get in trouble by time, but with proper mounts it is easier to stay ahead with downtime. They should have no trouble escaping with the Ferry to safety if they wish.
Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
How much should the Hobgoblin regulars should know about the plans of the Red Hand and the composition of the Wyrmlords? Should they even know of the Dragons?
One of my players is going to be running a Vow of Peace character so I know there will be captures and interrogations in my future, so I am kind of torn on what do the rank and file of the horde knows.
On a similar vein since I will be running the game to 6 or 7 players, I decided to add another "lieutenant" to Koth, a Varag clawlock who uses spring attack+snap kick+beast strike to serve as pseudo-pounce, he is supposed to be one of Koth's most powerful underlings and his "secret" enforcer. I kind of want to leave him as a surprise on Vraath's keep.
I am picturing the party entering the Keep and hearing some sort of scuttling noises while they explore it and once they confront Karkillan and Koth he drops from the ceiling clawing at them and then springing back into the darkness, harassing them while they fight Koth and the minotaur. Obviously this is a best case scenario where they don't spot him before the confrontation with the Wyrmlord.
The problem being that this would be ruined if the party captures a Hobgoblin before and manage to get the info on him... so should the regulars outright know of him or should I keep him as something vague and terrifying even for the hobs?
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Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbuck_II
Did they not have enough sunderers?
Was the Bridge too hard?
Without the bridge destroyed the Hand will arrive quicker than it should (day 8they arrive at bridge; if Bridge destroyed Hand must take long way around so 3 days more to cross to attack).
They must fight him Chapter 5 back at the Red Hand home base (possibly in invasion as well).
With Giants (delay by 2), they means delayed from Ferry's destruction till day 14 (If Koth defeated [delay 1] makes it day 15, Bridge (delay 3) makes it 18 days of peace before the storm). So the party lost 4 days no biggie overall.
Are the party planning to spend their extra days on hit/runs on bridge or are they already past day 14 to get Ferry's butt out of there?
Without mounts it is easy to get in trouble by time, but with proper mounts it is easier to stay ahead with downtime. They should have no trouble escaping with the Ferry to safety if they wish.
The main source of delay was the town: they had a really slow start there. Before they investigated Vraath Keep, one character started a minor plague, two characters were almost burned at the stake as witches... Y'know how it is.
The Ferry has been evacuated by this point, though. That took a bit longer than normal, because they accidentally killed Norro and most of the militia, meaning that the town basically had no centralized power structure left. (When I say "accidentally", I should note that the killings were completely intentional, but the chain of events that led to the killings being seen as necessary was totally inadvertent.)
So the delays were mostly just a matter of players getting distracted from the main mission. I don't think they realized until now that the adventure was actually time-dependent, so I'm okay with a bit of a rude awakening.
And they've now fled to Brindol, leaving most of the Ferry's refugees wandering around the Vale in a rather disorganized state. Their plan is to make contact with the nobles of Brindol and try and organize a more coherent defense. Which sounds good. The problem is that, as far as I can tell, they have no idea that Rhest contains Hand operatives. Despite having ample opportunities, they have not taken any prisoners so far. So their state of intel is, in general, very poor. I'm thinking I might have a Red Hand assassin attack Jarnaath or one of his underlings while they're near. Like Skather, but rather less hardcore. The assassin will have stuff that gives them the vital information of where to go next. Wanting to stop the roadblock can just be icing on the cake, I guess.
Last edited by GreyMantle : 10-15-2012 at 04:53 PM.
Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse
How much should the Hobgoblin regulars should know about the plans of the Red Hand and the composition of the Wyrmlords? Should they even know of the Dragons?
One of my players is going to be running a Vow of Peace character so I know there will be captures and interrogations in my future, so I am kind of torn on what do the rank and file of the horde knows.
On a similar vein since I will be running the game to 6 or 7 players, I decided to add another "lieutenant" to Koth, a Varag clawlock who uses spring attack+snap kick+beast strike to serve as pseudo-pounce, he is supposed to be one of Koth's most powerful underlings and his "secret" enforcer. I kind of want to leave him as a surprise on Vraath's keep.
I am picturing the party entering the Keep and hearing some sort of scuttling noises while they explore it and once they confront Karkillan and Koth he drops from the ceiling clawing at them and then springing back into the darkness, harassing them while they fight Koth and the minotaur. Obviously this is a best case scenario where they don't spot him before the confrontation with the Wyrmlord.
The problem being that this would be ruined if the party captures a Hobgoblin before and manage to get the info on him... so should the regulars outright know of him or should I keep him as something vague and terrifying even for the hobs?
Why shouldn't he be vague and terrifying even to the hobgoblins? If the guy is Koth's ace-in-the-hole, his fallback to protect him should Karkilan do anything stupid like try and assassinate Koth, then it stands to reason the regulars shouldn't know a lot about him either.
You could even have them up the horror aspect by suggesting that the Varag is the "ghost" of Vraath Keep to the hobgoblins -- that they were told there's no ghost, but something is creeping around the place while they're there.
As to how much information the regulars should know -- there was an earlier response in the thread regarding Uth-lar (leader of the first encounter) being taken captive that IMHO nicely captures the level of information involved:
Quote:
They're interrogating Uth'lar now (the bashed him to negatives then healed him and bound him). I fear I'm giving away too much information, although part of it is for a player who has Azar Kul written into his backstory. So far he's told them...
- "The Son of the Dragon", a hobgoblin with blue scales, has united several goblin tribes and has dragons and monsters at his disposal.
- General Kharn is the leader of the army. Koth is a powerful gnoll sorcerer who will kill them all and is leading this initial expedition.
- The "day of destruction" will fall upon the "river town" soon.
That may seem like a lot. It's the result of Charm Person plus a few really respectable Diplomacy rolls. I don't intend for him to give much more except for maybe "they're in an old fortress in the woods" since none of the party has the Vraath Keep plot-hook. What do you folks think?
The only note I added to that query was to play up Azarr Kul as a semi-godlike figure, at least to the hobgoblins. As to their knowledge of dragons, I'd say you could safely suggest a green dragon supports Koth, since that'll scare the hell out of your players. Beyond that, keep the regulars ignorant.
Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
What does the Playground think of restating the DOOOOOM Hand Clerics as Dragon Shamans or Dragonfire Adepts?
I'm currently preparing to run this campaign and have been copying and rejigging the various statblocks to note cards, and the idea came to me. I'm thinking it would drop the hint about dragons a little bit sooner, which may be something to avoid, but it'll also add a little pep to the otherwise fairly standard early encounters.
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Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
Oooh, this reminds me, I still have a full list of changes that I'm preparing, but my favorite change has been my adjustments to the hobgoblin sergeants. I combined the crusader levels, and then used the whip and demoralizing lash feat to turn them into intimidating battlefield controllers. And then I realized that guns are a thing in Pathfinder, and that they'd look a lot better in a swanky hat...
Spoiler
Hobgoblin Commissar Hobgoblin crusader 3
LE Medium humanoid (goblinoid) Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +6 Languages Common, Draconic, Goblin AC 18, touch 12, flat-footed 16 hp 30 (3 HD) Saves Fort +6, Ref +3, Will +3 Speed 20 ft. (4 squares) Melee Whip +7(1d3+3, 15 ft reach)
Shortsword (1d6+3) Ranged Revolver +5 (1d8) Base Atk +3; CMB 5, CMD 10 Combat Gear: potion of cure moderate wounds Abilities Str 16, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8 Feats Intimidating Prowess, Imperious Command, Demoralizing LashB Maneuvers: Leading the Attack, Tactical Strike, Crusader’s Strike, Stone Bones, Stone Vise (DC 15), Douse the Flames, Stances: Iron Guard’s Glare, Leading the Charge
Steely Resolve 5, Furious Counterstrike +1, Zealous Surge 1/day Skills Handle Animal +4, Intimidate +10, Stealth +4, Perception +6 Possessions combat gear plus +1 breastplate,, masterwork whip, masterwork revolver with 10 bullets Hook Cruel leader of the line troops “Fight till the death, maggots, or you meet death at my hands!”
Morale Notes: When hobgoblin regulars or veterans start to flea due to HP limits, a commissar may make an intimidate check to overcome normal morale limits. If he succeeds, they stay in line and fight to the death. Commissars tend to shoot the first one who flees instead, giving a +4 circumstance bonus to this check.
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Last edited by Darthteej : 10-29-2012 at 11:44 PM.
Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynard
What does the Playground think of restating the DOOOOOM Hand Clerics as Dragon Shamans or Dragonfire Adepts?
I'm currently preparing to run this campaign and have been copying and rejigging the various statblocks to note cards, and the idea came to me. I'm thinking it would drop the hint about dragons a little bit sooner, which may be something to avoid, but it'll also add a little pep to the otherwise fairly standard early encounters.
I confess I know nothing about the effectiveness of Dragon Shamans in battle, but DFAs get good reviews when replaced for Wyrmlord Koth - much better support character than a vanilla sorcerer. There's a sample build at the front of the thread.
There are really only three or four places that Doom Hand clerics show up: one in the Marauder Attack at the beginning of the adventure, a few in the Ghostlord portion of the adventure, from memory a couple in the Battle of Brindol, and a small bunch in the Fane. For the most part they don't form the central part of any encounters; they're wholly support, so in my view if there's another class that does as good or a better job in the circumstances they can happily be retrofitted.
I've talked at some length about how underwhelming the clerics are in the Ghostlord section in particular mainly because of comparative levels - cleric 3, even if tier 1, is just a raised eyebrow and a melee attack roll to a party of level 8 characters. Personally, I swapped one for a Hobgoblin Warsoul which at least on paper looked more fun, even if he got shut down and smashed in one round.
As far as giving away the "game" of it being about dragons too early? That's kind of obvious in any event. The Marauder Attack -- the first encounter of the adventure -- has a cleric with a holy symbol of Tiamat, and if your hobgoblins aren't shouting to the Five Chromatic Glories or something as they run in to die, you're doing something wrong
I'll go and look over Dragon Shamans and DFAs in more detail when I've got some time, but as far as I'm concerned - more pep, more interest only enhances RHOD. It can't really make the encounters any worse.
Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
Well, I went ahead and restatted Zarr as a start. I know most of the other DOOOOM Hands just copy his build ,but I traded out some of his now-unusable items for a couple of things that should let him escape if the need arises. His role in the encounter seems to have shifted from 'I'm a cleric, here are some hellhounds, please remember to pick up my Holy Symbol when you kill me.' to 'I'm in charge here, but you can be sure as hell I'm going to run away if this goes bad.'
Of course, Uth-Lar is now his bodyguard, instead of the leader of the band. And I changed the Hellhounds into Draconic Riding Dogs, since without Clerics their presence makes even less sense than it did.
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My IA Award and some quotes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard
Planning just wastes valuable time that could be spent doing.
Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynard
Well, I went ahead and restatted Zarr as a start. I know most of the other DOOOOM Hands just copy his build ,but I traded out some of his now-unusable items for a couple of things that should let him escape if the need arises. His role in the encounter seems to have shifted from 'I'm a cleric, here are some hellhounds, please remember to pick up my Holy Symbol when you kill me.' to 'I'm in charge here, but you can be sure as hell I'm going to run away if this goes bad.'
Of course, Uth-Lar is now his bodyguard, instead of the leader of the band. And I changed the Hellhounds into Draconic Riding Dogs, since without Clerics their presence makes even less sense than it did.
I thought Hell hounds serve because of Tiamat or something. Yes, Clerics can summon them, but not required them. Although Tripping dragon dogs are not bad.
Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
As another Dragonlance fan, I am also intrigued by how this would be done.
Aside from the obvious replacement of Tiamat with Takhisis, I guess it would really depend on which era we set it in and where we place Elisir Vale since Kyrnn--and especially Ansalon--is pretty well mapped out, both in geography and history.
Obviously it would have to be before the Chaos War but other than that I'm drawing a blank.
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Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell
It should work pretty much as written for Dragonlance, I don't think you even have to change anything.
uhh, no. As I said above. Tiamat doesn't exist in Dragonlance. Her closest equivalent is Takhisis and she is only around prior to the War of Chaos.
Have you even thought about where the Vale would be located or when in Krynn's history it would be happening?
Sorcerers don't exist at all in Dragonlance pre-War of Chaos, unless you're a Draconian or a Dragon. Wizards have to follow certain restrictions and Paladins are extremely rare, Blackguards even moreso. And interplanar travel also has a few extra restrictions on it. And, depending on when during Krynn's history this is happening, there may not even be any divine magic commonly available.
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Jaya Ballard, Task Mage: "Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedipilot24
uhh, no. As I said above. Tiamat doesn't exist in Dragonlance. Her closest equivalent is Takhisis and she is only around prior to the War of Chaos.
Have you even thought about where the Vale would be located or when in Krynn's history it would be happening?
No need to become aggressive.
What I'm saying is that "army of humanoids bands together under the Dragon Queen" is pretty much Dragonlance's core.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedipilot24
Sorcerers don't exist at all in Dragonlance pre-War of Chaos, unless you're a Draconian or a Dragon. Wizards have to follow certain restrictions and Paladins are extremely rare, Blackguards even moreso. And interplanar travel also has a few extra restrictions on it. And, depending on when during Krynn's history this is happening, there may not even be any divine magic commonly available.
And so what?
What I'm saying still stands - it can be ran pretty much unchanged.
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Re: The 3.5 Red Hand Of Doom Handbook for DMs [Major spoilers!] - WIP, PEACH!
