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Okay, Deities and Demigods isn't going to cut it. If I wanted to write a god for my PCs to kill, how should I proceed? What kind of power can I give him without making him invincible? What would be suitable minions for him? We are talking mid-op high tier high level party, but not epic.
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Best homebrew ever (shameless self plug)! The Stoner, always PEACH
Few questions:
Greater or Lesser God? (God of Things That Get Stuck In Draws Vs God of Death)
Kill as in destroy beyond a chance to come back or kill as in destroy the God's manifested form on the prime materiel plane which will take 23459872537 years to come back?
And if you know, Number of players, level - ish when they might be fighting said God, class and focus. Because some classes and builds have a lot easier time then others vs some immunities and abilities.
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Okay, Deities and Demigods isn't going to cut it. If I wanted to write a god for my PCs to kill, how should I proceed? What kind of power can I give him without making him invincible? What would be suitable minions for him? We are talking mid-op high tier high level party, but not epic.
I'm really interested in this topic. I occasionally tried to re-build a god from Deities and Demigods, but as you said that book isn't exactly helpful when designing something on an "approachable god level". I mean that WotC's gods are either extremely powerful or they suck.
As a start, yu could choose to build every god as a gestalt character. This is what I usually do.
EDIT: I also liked the idea that came up some time ago in a topic: if in your campaign gods weren't born with gods' abilities but were once mortal beings that ascended to godhood, you could give them 10 Ur-priest levels.
Last edited by Uncle Pine : 10-28-2012 at 04:04 AM.
EDIT: I also liked the idea that came up some time ago in a topic: if in your campaign gods weren't born with gods' abilities but were once mortal beings that ascended to godhood, you could give them 10 Ur-priest levels.
That's beautifully hypocritical.
I like it.
Generally, a god would have a church backing them, obviously, but a god's church is far bigger than the rules can really justify without serious Leadership/Epic Leadership abuse. They should also have as a default some Solars or similar planar creatures assigned to them, great and small.
As to what SDAs you could give a god without them becoming overpowered, it's tricky. Most of the spellcasting ones are overpowered by definition, and Alter Reality, of course, is Right Out. Some stuff like "Always Goes First" (Battlesense, I think it is) shouldn't be too impossible and would work well in demonstrating how good the god can be (e.g. player gets a 31 or something ludicrous on his Initiative check, and then you say "not enough, god goes first" anyway) while not making it too hard (i.e. extra powers, but not unstoppable).
And, of course, gods also get all their domain spells as SLAs. For free. That can get very ugly, very fast.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaos_redefined
It's easy to make something on fire in D&D. Put adventurers near it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kornilios
I guess it's better but Anthropomorphic bat sounds like Batman without his dignity
Few questions:
Greater or Lesser God? (God of Things That Get Stuck In Draws Vs God of Death)
Kill as in destroy beyond a chance to come back or kill as in destroy the God's manifested form on the prime materiel plane which will take 23459872537 years to come back?
And if you know, Number of players, level - ish when they might be fighting said God, class and focus. Because some classes and builds have a lot easier time then others vs some immunities and abilities.
The fluff is not terribly important, I think.
Three players, Level 17+. T1 gish, Psion and Dread Necro. Each of them can do 300+ damage per round to a single target in the right conditions, they have extreme survivability, and most immunities. Among their current enemies are long range monsters with Avasculate at will, and melee monsters who eat one buff per round as a free action.
I'm looking for things that can challenge them without being too overpowered. Also, I would like to see if you can come up with some interesting strategic devices that are not meaningless to them - something they might have/choose to do in order to fight said god in the first place. Something to prevent them from going "I charge in that direction until I stumble into the god", and no I don't want social encounters.
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Sauron made a powerfull ring, who turned out to be the bane of his power in Lord of the Rings (hope I don't spoil the story for some, guesses most here know it ).
In the Sandman comic stories by Neil Gaiman, Dream made three artifacts who he put power into, similiar to Sauron, and the first story he hunts for them to regain his powers again.
In computer games, Morrowind got the weapons Keening and Sunder, who also is an example, if you know of the game.
Make a few such artifacts, make them get power from the god (and so loose power once the god is dead), and you got a way to take down a god, and a few storyhooks for gaining the players some artefacts.
Sauron made a powerfull ring, who turned out to be the bane of his power in Lord of the Rings (hope I don't spoil the story for some, guesses most here know it ).
In the Sandman comic stories by Neil Gaiman, Dream made three artifacts who he put power into, similiar to Sauron, and the first story he hunts for them to regain his powers again.
In computer games, Morrowind got the weapons Keening and Sunder, who also is an example, if you know of the game.
Make a few such artifacts, make them get power from the god (and so loose power once the god is dead), and you got a way to take down a god, and a few storyhooks for gaining the players some artefacts.
To be fair, Keening and Sunder didn't depend on the Heart of Lorkhan for their power. They were forged to control it, but I can't recall anything at all saying that they were forged from it. The Tribunal would be a better example of that, since they needed replenishment from the Heart to maintain their full godly status (and without it, were still gods but not much more powerful than a particularly powerful mortal, so DvR 0-1 in D&D terms).
One thing that gods can do in 3.5e, however, is invest their power in a proxy. It does weaken the god somewhat, and I think that if they die, in theory they would lose that divine rank. Don't quote me on it, however. It says the deity can recall the divine ranks as a standard action, but not what happens if the proxy dies before the deity can pull the DvR back. What this also does, however, is spread power among several possible targets, allowing your players a chance (if you go with "death of proxy before recall means no more DvR) at weakening the god before they come up against their final target.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaos_redefined
It's easy to make something on fire in D&D. Put adventurers near it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kornilios
I guess it's better but Anthropomorphic bat sounds like Batman without his dignity
You could make their world-changing abilities like Alter Reality take a few minutes or hours to cast so they can't do it in combat. It could also add some time pressure, having to defeat some miniboss quickly before taking on the god himself, or else he completes the ritual and Bad Things happen. If the God finishes his really long casting-time SDA, the players can still beat him, but he just set the world on fire. Could be a Downer Ending, the PCs could roleplay how "We weren't fast enough. We could have stopped him..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy
By level 20 though, you aren't capturing a wizard. A character lives to level 20 by being the most ruthless, lucky, capable, and paranoid bastard around. A wizard is throwing around a 30+ Int score and has, entirely in character, planned contingencies for his contingencies. He may well be running around with flat out total immunity to harm, he does not walk outside without an entire bevy of defensive magics around him and enough magic items to buy himself a nation.
Three players, Level 17+. T1 gish, Psion and Dread Necro. Each of them can do 300+ damage per round to a single target in the right conditions, they have extreme survivability, and most immunities. Among their current enemies are long range monsters with Avasculate at will, and melee monsters who eat one buff per round as a free action.
I'm looking for things that can challenge them without being too overpowered. Also, I would like to see if you can come up with some interesting strategic devices that are not meaningless to them - something they might have/choose to do in order to fight said god in the first place. Something to prevent them from going "I charge in that direction until I stumble into the god", and no I don't want social encounters.
Interesting. Okay, throwing out the books and doing it from scratch.
Teryonar, Keeper of Souls
Teryonar has dominion over the souls of mortals before their death. His role is to prevent the corruption, theft, or destruction of mortal souls before they may be judged on their own merits. Unfortunately, this power is extremely abusable as the gatekeeper that can manipulate the flow of souls to the divine, and Teryonar has decided to abuse it, necessitating a beat-down.
Teryonar has no true form. Instead, he can occupy the souls of mortals and manifest from them. This operates similarly to a ghost's possession ability, except that Teryonar does not control the actions of the host - he merely takes actions from the host's body. Teryonar has a limited range in which he can jump from one soul to another - about 5 miles. In order to kill Teryonar, one would have to trap him within a soul and then destroy that soul utterly, e.g. via Barghest's Feast or the like. Soul Trapping Teryonar's host would successfully imprison him, but requires a gem that can hold a 40HD soul. Killing Teryonar's host causes him to immediately jump to another available soul; killing the host when no soul is around temporarily disperses Teryonar - he can then remanifest into any soul anywhere in the world within 1d4 minutes. Spells such as 'Make Manifest' that would force Teryonar to have a physical form do not affect him. Teryonar's soul possession ability can only be blocked by Protection from Evil and the like if the caster succeeds on a check against SR 30 - this must be retried every time Teryonar makes the attempt.
Beyond this defense, Teryonar can strengthen or weaken the defenses of his host. He can apply up to a +10 Divine bonus to saves, AC, and attack rolls to the host, or can levy an equivalent penalty at his discretion and as a free action. Furthermore, he can give the host SR 30, or lower the host's SR entirely against their will. He may also make the host Immune to Negative Energy, Death Effects, Ability Damage, Ability Drain, Transmutation, and Compulsion, and can also lower any such immunities that the host possesses. Teryonar himself (if he should somehow be directly targeted) is also immune to these things. As a deity, Teryonar ignores antimagic fields.
Wrack the Soul:One of Teryonar's most frightening offensive ability is the fact that he can slowly burn away the soul he possesses. Every round that Teryonar possesses someone and has this ability active, that person loses 1d4 x 1000xp. If this lowers them below the xp needed for their current level, they lose a level (as opposed to gaining a permanent negative level).
Soul Transfer:Teryonar also has the ability to pull a soul with him when he moves. The target of this ability can make a Will save, DC 30+Cha mod (Teryonar's Cha mod, that is), or their soul is moved into the new host and their body falls to the ground inert (and will die in one minute if this is not reversed). This soul instinctively fights for control with the new host - they must make opposed Will saves, and the winner controls the character while the loser is suppressed. Transferring the soul back requires a casting of Magic Jar, for the new host to be killed with a Thinaun weapon, trapping the soul in a gem and shattering it, etc.
Aura of the Gatekeeper: Teryonar has the ability to prevent any abilities that would raise the dead (including Revivify) from working within 5 miles of his host, if he so chooses. This also blocks abilities that require access to the soul of the dead, such as Create Undead. Existing undead are unaffected. Teryonar can also make raising the dead easier, removing the level loss associated with such effects.
Castigate: If an ability that affects the soul is used against Teryonar's host, Teryonar may make a saving throw on behalf of the host. If this save succeeds, the user of the ability instead suffers its effects with no save, with Teryonar acting as the controlling caster.
Soulfire: If Teryonar wishes to make a brute-force physical attack, he uses this ability. He must have Wrack the Soul active for this purpose. He converts the XP that has been consumed that round into damage, at a rate of 1 point of damage per 4xp burnt. He can then levy this damage on any target within sight (Will halves). This effect does not allow SR. This damage is typed divine.
Cleric casting: If the above were not enough, Teryonar casts as a Lv20 Cleric.
Deity perks: Teryonar does not automatically fail saves or attack rolls on a natural 1.
Feats: Quicken spell, Quicken Spell-like Ability, Empower Spell-like ability (apply this to Wrack the Soul...), Fountain of Life (Heroes of Horror feat that lets you get a save on negative energy effects that don't normally allow saves), a bunch of other stuff...
Stats: Cha is the most important here obviously. Set to taste based on your party's abilities.
Okay, this is original, interesting, has a few very attractive concepts in it, and it is even fitting with the fluff I want.
Problems I'm seeing: right now, the only way to defeat him depends on a single roll basically - the god's save against Trap the Soul. This means the fight could potentially be over in one round, and this is bad. The method to kill him needs work. Also, since my characters are extremely geared for damage, it would be bad DMing on my part to not give them something to damage. I would ideally want to give them a choice - something that is dangerous but if you do it, it is easier/faster to kill the god.
Second: I don't use XP in my games ("guys, level up"). I think I can make it fly with some special negative level you cannot be immune to. It kind of voids the WBL my players spent on immunity to such things, but I think negative levels are a good game concept while immunities are not. I do things like these sometimes. The damage has to be tweaked as well: the gish relies on 50% miss chance for survival (Swiftblade) and doesn't have that many hp - soulfire is basically 1d4x250 damage. 1d4 packets of 50 damage, checked against miss chance separately, might be a better idea.
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Best homebrew ever (shameless self plug)! The Stoner, always PEACH
Um, PCs without cosmic/divine ranks cannot really kill a god without divine/cosmic help. You need to off the thing in hir realm where s/he has more minions than you can shake a stick at. But you, as DM, can use rule 0 and set them upon a quest leading to a discovery of Godsbane (the sword that Cyric used to off Myrkul et al, fueled by a god) or similar once-in-an-eon artifact. Otherwise PCs would be offing gods in every second campaign.
Rule 0 is your friend, it's easy to nerf a monster--in this case a god--if it needs to be killed.
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Goodness gracious, Great Balls of Fire!
Okay, this is original, interesting, has a few very attractive concepts in it, and it is even fitting with the fluff I want.
Problems I'm seeing: right now, the only way to defeat him depends on a single roll basically - the god's save against Trap the Soul. This means the fight could potentially be over in one round, and this is bad. The method to kill him needs work. Also, since my characters are extremely geared for damage, it would be bad DMing on my part to not give them something to damage. I would ideally want to give them a choice - something that is dangerous but if you do it, it is easier/faster to kill the god.
Well thats fair. You did ask for something that would require significantly new tactics. I don't actually think Trap the Soul is really the way to get this guy. The easiest thing to do is kill his host with a Thinaun weapon. No save, no resistance against it. In retrospect, its way too easy, though your players may not think of it since Thinaun is kinda obscure. There's also a no-save version of Trap the Soul where you get the target to voluntarily accept the gem, but thats not so much a way to defeat this guy in combat.
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Second: I don't use XP in my games ("guys, level up"). I think I can make it fly with some special negative level you cannot be immune to. It kind of voids the WBL my players spent on immunity to such things, but I think negative levels are a good game concept while immunities are not. I do things like these sometimes. The damage has to be tweaked as well: the gish relies on 50% miss chance for survival (Swiftblade) and doesn't have that many hp - soulfire is basically 1d4x250 damage. 1d4 packets of 50 damage, checked against miss chance separately, might be a better idea.
Sure, its important to adjust the numbers to be sane for your party. Another really important thing though is make sure they roughly know this guy's abilities long before they fight him.
Ahl-gethea (or Ahl for the rest of this post) is a strange being, a creature that entered the cosmos and was afforded the status of a deity by the gods of order as an attempt to bring it into the natural way of things. Ahl did not care. Ahl embodies the elimination of the path between here and there, the idea that distance and separation hold no meaning. Unfortunately, Ahl's nature has let 'things' in, which are dangerous to the universe.
Defenses:
Immunities: Death effects, Energy drain, Transmutation, Compulsion/Charm, Paralysis, Stunning, Daze, Ability Drain, Ability Damage, Pressure (either high or low - Ahl-gethea is as happy under the sea as in the vacuum of space, and probably will use both to fight the PCs), Suffocation (Ahl-Gethea does not breath), Fumbles on a nat 1, Gravity (as in, Ahl-gethea ignores local gravity), Forced movement (special: see Movement), Teleportation, Fear, Insanity (already is...). Ahl-gethea's abilities are divine and ignore antimagic fields and SR.
Special: Ahl is not immune to mind-affecting spells, but has the entire sequence of Book of Vile Darkness feats that allow him to reflect such spells against their caster on a successful save with a +4 DC. Ahl-gethea's mind is alien, and touching it removes the distance between it and the mind of the one who touched it.
Movement: Ahl-gethea can hold on to the fabric of space and can use this to hover freely against any external force. This makes Ahl-gethea immune to being moved from his position. However, he is not immune to experiencing the force behind such a push, and takes 1d6 damage per 5ft that the forced movement attack would have moved him. Ahl-gethea must use a swift action to activate or deactivate his immunity to forced movement.
Senses: Ahl-gethea has Blindsight to 120ft, Darkvision, True Seeing, and the ability to sense portals to a range of 10 miles. Teleportation within this range is visible to Ahl-gethea through any boundary, and Ahl-gethea also knows the destination of said teleportation instantly. Furthermore, Ahl-gethea can look through the square of any person that he has No Distance on as if that were the point of origin of his vision.
Pass Through: As an immediate action, Ahl-gethea can link an attack to another point in space, causing it to harmlessly pass through him and out that other point in space (this is an attack involving an attack roll). This can be used to redirect an attack against another target, at the same to-hit as the originator's attack. Basically this means that Ahl-gethea can negate one attack per round and make it do something nasty to someone else.
Abrupt Jaunt: Ahl-gethea can teleport up to 50ft as an immediate action. He prefers pass-through when he does not feel threatened by his opposition, but will use this if he is doing poorly.
Time Distortion: This very unfair ability allows Ahl-gethea to take either a second standard action or a second swift/immediate action once per round. If Ahl-gethea is affected by the spell Slow, this ability is suppressed, but Ahl-gethea receives the normal amount of actions.
Special Vulnerability: Dimensional anchor and similar spells deal 25% of Ahl-gethea's total hitpoints in damage to him instead of having their normal effect, if they would actually successfully strike and effect him. Ahl-gethea is only affected this way by such things once per spell, so a Forbiddance is a nasty surprise but then its done.
Octopus Jar: Ahl-gethea can form a portal and hide in it as a Swift action. The portal remains open, but blocks line of effect. To target Ahl-gethea in this state, a character must enter the portal and attack him from within. This causes the character to automatically become grappled though future attempts to progress/escape the grapple proceed normally. Ahl-gethea must spend a swift action to exit the portal.
Offenses:
No Distance: Ahl-gethea's core ability is very nasty, and means that once the party has engaged him, there is no hope of running - they must slay him or placate him, or they are doomed. Once a round as a free action, Ahl-Gethea may use the 'No Distance' ability against a target he has line of effect to. From that moment on, Ahl-gethea can reach out from anywhere and strike the target with any of his abilities as if they were in melee range. This ability has one weakness, which is that a readied action can be used to strike back along the connection when an attack occurs. Otherwise, it has no limits of range or time.
Transit: Ahl-gethea may treat two points as the same in order to move himself. This is a move-action teleport he can use over any distance. The weakness of this ability is that it leaves a portal behind for one round through which enemies may follow him. Ahl-gethea will generally use No Distance then attempt to Transit millions of miles away and pick off his enemies one at a time. To have any chance, his enemies must follow, which can have nasty effects due to the environments that Ahl-gethea can survive.
Tidal Forces (Standard action): Ahl-gethea attempts to destroy a character by creating a portal that crosses their body. The target must make a Fort save, DC 30+Cha mod, or suffer 20d6 magical slashing damage and be entangled by the portal. On a successful save they take half damage and are not entangled.
Black Hole (Standard action): Ahl-gethea opens a microscopic portal to a really nasty spot in an intense gravity well. All movement away from this point costs triple normal, whereas movement towards this point costs one third normal. A character within 10ft (adjacent square) of the point takes 5d6 bludgeoning damage per round. A character in the same square (e.g. within 5ft) of the point takes 20d6 bludgeoning damage per round. If the point is created on a character's square, they make make a DC 30+Cha mod Reflex save to jump to an adjacent square instead. Ahl-gethea is immune to the effects of this power. The radius of this effect is 500ft.
Banish (Standard action): Ahl-gethea must make a touch attack (keeping in mind No Distance) against a target. This target must make a DC 30+Cha mod Will save or be teleported/plane-shifted to a place of Ahl-gethea's choice.
Wall of Warped Space (Standard action): Ahl-gethea can create discontiguous regions of 'warped space', up to 40 5ft cubes. These regions are imperceptible without observing an object passing through them at some speed. Attacks that pass through these regions suffer a cumulative 20% miss chance per region they pass through. Ahl-gethea cannot stack this effect - he gets 40 5ft cubes at any given time - but otherwise the effect is permanent.
Dimensional Fistula (Standard action): Ahl-gethea can open a permanent portal between his location and any other location, up to 5ft in radius. He can expand the radius of this portal by 5ft per standard action with an eventual limit of 400ft in radius. Destruction of this portal can be accomplished via Seal Portal or Dimensional Anchor (caster must succeed on a caster level check DC 40). A Disjunction does not interact with the effect.
Two Places (Standard action/Passive): Ahl-gethea may create a second body of himself somewhere else. He does not get any extra actions by doing so, but this body shares his status and hitpoints. In a serious fight, he will leave a second body with his preeminent clerics, whose responsibility is to heal it as he takes damage. Hitpoint damage and negative effects still apply to him through the second body, so this is a risk. A valid strategy may be to attack him in both places at once. Ahl-gethea can maintain this second body indefinitely, and can act through it or his primary (but has one pool of actions).
Summon Help (Standard action): Redundant with Fistula, but a reminder that Ahl-gethea can summon loyal worshipers to his aid using his ability to make portals. Or can summon strange chthonian monstrosities. Whatever works. Having more than one target can make a fight more tactical, but the most important thing when fighting Ahl-gethea is to keep up with him, so it may be best to ignore this.
Eldritch godling is how I would address this. Make him level 20 so that he is a demigod, have his level 18 high priest with him, and you have a very level appropriate encounter. If you want him to be a bit tougher you can either bump him up to 22 and give an epic feat or make him level 20 gestalt with a crusader shield type build (I'm partial to Captain America, it it fits so well for a GODling) builds.
The short of doing it this way is your really designing a sorcerer with leadership and some nifty abilities. A LOT easier than a Dieties and Demigods god that is a challenge without being tpk.
Unless they have complete immunity to all the conditions, consider having him guarded by karmic aura, backlash, and retribution. If you really want to make them cautious have the three karmic spells cast with the pathfinder version of persistant spell, black lore of moil, and fell drain. Combined with that crusader gestalt you'd have them rolling 6 saves on every successful attack/spell and provoking AoOs. Even if he died on the 2nd round, nothing freaks out a pc like having to roll 6 saves and take an AoO for hitting the guy once...
Pass Through: As an immediate action, Ahl-gethea can link an attack to another point in space, causing it to harmlessly pass through him and out that other point in space (this is an attack involving an attack roll). This can be used to redirect an attack against another target, at the same to-hit as the originator's attack. Basically this means that Ahl-gethea can negate one attack per round and make it do something nasty to someone else.
Special Vulnerability: Dimensional anchor and similar spells deal 25% of Ahl-gethea's total hitpoints in damage to him instead of having their normal effect, if they would actually successfully strike and effect him. Ahl-gethea is only affected this way by such things once per spell, so a Forbiddance is a nasty surprise but then its done.
Octopus Jar: Ahl-gethea can form a portal and hide in it as a Swift action. The portal remains open, but blocks line of effect. To target Ahl-gethea in this state, a character must enter the portal and attack him from within. This causes the character to automatically become grappled though future attempts to progress/escape the grapple proceed normally. Ahl-gethea must spend a swift action to exit the portal.
No Distance: Ahl-gethea's core ability is very nasty, and means that once the party has engaged him, there is no hope of running - they must slay him or placate him, or they are doomed. Once a round as a free action, Ahl-Gethea may use the 'No Distance' ability against a target he has line of effect to. From that moment on, Ahl-gethea can reach out from anywhere and strike the target with any of his abilities as if they were in melee range. This ability has one weakness, which is that a readied action can be used to strike back along the connection when an attack occurs. Otherwise, it has no limits of range or time.
Tidal Forces (Standard action): Ahl-gethea attempts to destroy a character by creating a portal that crosses their body. The target must make a Fort save, DC 30+Cha mod, or suffer 20d6 magical slashing damage and be entangled by the portal. On a successful save they take half damage and are not entangled.
Black Hole (Standard action): Ahl-gethea opens a microscopic portal to a really nasty spot in an intense gravity well. All movement away from this point costs triple normal, whereas movement towards this point costs one third normal. A character within 10ft (adjacent square) of the point takes 5d6 bludgeoning damage per round. A character in the same square (e.g. within 5ft) of the point takes 20d6 bludgeoning damage per round. If the point is created on a character's square, they make make a DC 30+Cha mod Reflex save to jump to an adjacent square instead. Ahl-gethea is immune to the effects of this power. The radius of this effect is 500ft.
Two Places (Standard action/Passive): Ahl-gethea may create a second body of himself somewhere else. He does not get any extra actions by doing so, but this body shares his status and hitpoints. In a serious fight, he will leave a second body with his preeminent clerics, whose responsibility is to heal it as he takes damage. Hitpoint damage and negative effects still apply to him through the second body, so this is a risk. A valid strategy may be to attack him in both places at once. Ahl-gethea can maintain this second body indefinitely, and can act through it or his primary (but has one pool of actions).
These abilities are exactly the kind of thing I am looking for. Strong, challenging for strong characters, but not insta-win buttons.
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Originally Posted by AdamT
Eldritch godling is how I would address this. Make him level 20 so that he is a demigod, have his level 18 high priest with him, and you have a very level appropriate encounter. If you want him to be a bit tougher you can either bump him up to 22 and give an epic feat or make him level 20 gestalt with a crusader shield type build (I'm partial to Captain America, it it fits so well for a GODling) builds.
The short of doing it this way is your really designing a sorcerer with leadership and some nifty abilities. A LOT easier than a Dieties and Demigods god that is a challenge without being tpk.
Unless they have complete immunity to all the conditions, consider having him guarded by karmic aura, backlash, and retribution. If you really want to make them cautious have the three karmic spells cast with the pathfinder version of persistant spell, black lore of moil, and fell drain. Combined with that crusader gestalt you'd have them rolling 6 saves on every successful attack/spell and provoking AoOs. Even if he died on the 2nd round, nothing freaks out a pc like having to roll 6 saves and take an AoO for hitting the guy once...
Yeeah... no thanks. Caster NPCs have stopped being fun fights levels ago, because they are usually OP until they drop a defense or cannot stop an attack from one of my PCs, then they die in a split second. Extremely complex encounters, some drama, and no fun overall.
Moreover, all the melee we have is either undead or immune to negative energy effects, also the psion is probably more dangerous and he has to be countered somehow. Building high level encounters is always hard when you are dealing with such strong PCs.
I don't care at all about it being a by-the-book build. I am looking for things that are not printed, because I think printed stuff is not suitable for my players. Feel free to invent your own monster, if you think you have a good idea. NichG is doing exactly that and he has been terribly helpful.
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Best homebrew ever (shameless self plug)! The Stoner, always PEACH
In Forgotten Realms -- the high-magic setting -- there are several god-killing weapons. One was used by Cyric, the self-professed prince of lies, to kill several gods. Little did he know that the blade's power came from a god, making the sentient sword a proxy or avatar. In another FR series of novels, someone thought they could off Lolth with a divinely-forged blade.
If you need to make a godsbane sword, just have it made by or with the help of a greater god/cosmic being.
Say you want to kill a lawful good god: have a demon lord to hone the blade with angel wings or some such thing.
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Goodness gracious, Great Balls of Fire!
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly would be special about a God slaying weapon? I am interested as It would fit into my campaign, but not sure what would really make it more special than anything else.
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly would be special about a God slaying weapon? I am interested as It would fit into my campaign, but not sure what would really make it more special than anything else.
It weakens a specific opponent enough to be slain by PCs of much lower level
It weakens a specific opponent enough to be slain by PCs of much lower level
How does it weaken them enough to be slain? Does it remove levels, heals? gods have tons of protection, so what would it target. I cant logically say a sword will somehow turn him into a lvl 20 human.
Another route to take is to change the focus of the fight altoghether. Between Remote Sensing, Portfolio Sense and regular divination spells high ranked gods can know you're coming before you even think about it. Therefore they will be very difficult to catch off-guard. Your players will have to either find a way to obfuscate their target's senses or force an encouter on their terms.
If they won't be able to force a direct confrontation, they might cut down a god's power by converting/killing his worshippers.
They might also seek alliances with other powerful beings. This will usualy come with a price to pay.
Unique fighting abilities are one thing, but to make the fight truly different, one should make it something more then a single combat encounter.
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In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.
Yeah, I did a bunch of enemies like this for a special arena in my campaign where the PCs could fight really really weird things for prizes. Also for Loa and Orisha in an afterlife themed campaign where the souls of the dead basically became the gods who controlled all natural phenomena in the world of the living. Each player got a wonky power based on their nature, and their enemies had to have the same kind of thing.
For instance, Ujuti, Loa of Discourse (a support combatant):
Spoiler
Ujuti, Loa of Discourse
1500hp
- Darkskinned woman dressed in exquisite robes. Gold and red themed clothing.
- Str 20, Dex 40, Con 30, Int 50, Wis 40, Cha 60
- Ashe: 10, Flux: 30, Gate: 20
- Speaking: 8, Seeing: 8, Possession: 16, Root: 8
- Fort: +25, Reflex: +30, Will: +40 (gains Cha instead of Wis)
- AC: 55 (gains Cha as Deflection)
- 300 juju
- Uses the Speaking Stick, an artifact that grants the wielder the authority to speak. This allows Ujuti to speak outside of her own turn, or to use speech-based powers as an Immediate action.
- First form
- Power of words. Ujuti can take things said in banter and make them manifest physically as tools for her to use. 10 juju
- The high ground. If an enemy refuses to return banter from Ujuti, they are struck by a stacking -10 morale penalty.
- Aura of non-violence. So long as Ujuti does not attack, attacks against her cause a 70hp retributive flash as per End to Strife.
- Second form. Seal (Speaking): Ujuti is able to successfully enrage her enemy with banter
- Negotiate higher authority. Ujuti negotiates with the sources of a character's power, shutting them down.
- Word games. Ujuti speaks a rule for how her banter must be responded to (e.g. first syllable matches the last syllable of the last word she spoke), but the rule breaks if she fails to follow it.
- Rules of order. Can shut down free socials between others.
From another campaign, Galgaliel, guardian angel of vibration, the motion of the sun, and the removal of barriers:
Spoiler
Galgaliel: Vibration, motion of the sun, removal of barriers
- Galgaliel has two full round actions a round
- Attacks against Galgaliel never miss
- Any attacks hitting Galgaliel transmit strong vibrations to the attacker. If melee, vibrations transmit to armor, dealing 4d6 sonic damage to both wearer and equipment on them.
- If ranged, creates a counter-flash that does 4d6 to anyone within hearing
- Galgaliel can pull people out of their protections, shutting down any barriers they have on them.
- Galgaliel can create a cone of vibrations (8d6 sonic damage, Reflex DC 30)
- Galgaliel can remove internal partitions from a person, dealing 1d4 Con drain (Fort DC 30 halves)
- Galgaliel can spin the world between night and day at rapid speed, aging people by a year.
- Galgaliel can open a gate to other places, summoning forth a hostile environment.
- Galgaliel can strike with the Staff of Opening four times a round for 1d8+3 damage (crit on 17-20, deals 4 Con on a crit)
- Fort +25, Reflex +20, Will +15
- 600hp (30 HD)
- BAB +30
- Str 14, Dex 28, Con 24, Int 30, Wis 30, Cha 30
- Immunity to poison, disease, death effects, compulsions, petrification, sonic, fire
- Vulnerable to cold
- Vulnerable to time effects (Slow deals 4 Con damage, no save)
How does it weaken them enough to be slain? Does it remove levels, heals? gods have tons of protection, so what would it target. I cant logically say a sword will somehow turn him into a lvl 20 human.
You could make a weapon that negates their divine AC bonus, or bypasses their DR. Some deities have used a portion of their power to make themselves vulnerable to only a few things. Say, there's an evil god (devil/demon) whose DR is 30/epic, good and unicorn horn. Then you have an adventure: make your lawful good PCs to convince the Forestmaster, an ancient unicorn, that they really really need to kill it to get the horn to kill the unspeakable evil...
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Goodness gracious, Great Balls of Fire!
For a god-slaying weapon, one thing you could do is to say 'damage from this weapon lowers a deity's maximum hitpoints rather than doing normal hitpoint damage; this can never be healed by any power, and if it slays the deity then they can never remanifest; this also can be used to harm the deity in such a way through any of their avatars or proxies'. Thus, it becomes the mission of a cult of godslayers to send the weapon into battle against the deity once every 10-20 years, slowly wearing him down, even if each attempt fails. It also means that the party can fight the deity's avatar first (because the deity may be unprepared for having injury to their avatar hurt them), proceed to hunting down proxies to weaken the deity further, and finally fight the deity on his home ground.
It'd also be a kind of funny way for the party to start with the idea 'lets kill this deity!' and then realize they're being manipulated and turn on the cult (or not, if they agree with the cult's ideas).
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