Meh, I think the PT hate tends to be extremely exaggerated and out of proportion. It's just a matter of knowing that it's not the same kind of movie and adjusting your expectations accordingly: You watch the OT for the story and characters, and the PT for the lightsaber duels and huge battles.
I prefer the lightsaber duels in the original trilogy. The fighting style in the prequels looks like a good way to allow your opponant to stab you in the back. Just, you know. Throwing that out there.
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with the Transformers movies either. You have to watch them for CG robots and product placements and not trivial things like plot, characters, dialogue, or acting.
I would have been fine with this, but Michael Bay kept introducing things like "plot", "humans" and "Shia LaBoef". And then the robot on robot violence was so poorly edited I had no idea what was going on and he managed to ruin that too.
I had zero interest in watching any other Transformer movies =P
I had zero interest in watching any other Transformer movies =P
Not even the one with the Stan Bush soundtrack? The one where a whole clump of characters were killed off to make way for new toys? The one where robotic dinosaurs proceed to beat at a titanic robot for whom they are mere gnats... and actually do damage?
And then the robot on robot violence was so poorly edited I had no idea what was going on and he managed to ruin that too.
???
Seriously. I keep hearing this and I don't get it; I found the robot on robot fights to be easy to follow and very well done.
__________________
"Sweet Haelga,
Last night was the most wonderful night of my life. The things you showed me... the things we did... I could never have dreamt that it was possible. Who even knew that someone could manipulate their body in that manner while wearing Daedric armor boots? You are a true master of the Dibellan Arts, my love... a credit to your religion. Perhaps we'll meet again soon but next time, allow me to bring the trout.
Your Secret Lover"
???
Seriously. I keep hearing this and I don't get it; I found the robot on robot fights to be easy to follow and very well done.
Found it a confusing, muddled mess. It may be because a lot of the robots ended up looking alike; lots of gray and not much color differentiation. No real wideshots to establish where the participants are spatially, lots of shaky, close-ups instead.
I have the same complaints about the Bourne series. I grew up on extended martial arts fights without much in the way of cuts, so I find this kind of movie editing disorienting and dizzying.
Episode I was racist with alien stand-ins for offensive stereotypes of black (Jar-Jar), Jewish (Wazoo...Wato..flying greedy guy with big nose) and Chinesse (Trade Federation).
Episode II and III suffer from the fact that the actors of Padme and Anakin cannot sell the chemistry and romance, their entire body language speaks something completely different from what their dialogues says, making scenes with them very creepy.
Then people don't know there sterotypes. Jar Jar was jamican not black. The accent says it all.
Uh, that's kind of splitting hairs though really. More importantly it doesn't make Jar Jar any less a potentially offensive stereotype.
i liked Jar Jar. he was one of my favorites, as was Wato. how was Wato a stereotypical Jewish, by the way? he didnt seem to fit any such stereotypes i knew of.
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Only the Trade Federation as Chinese stereotypes came across to me. I've never really known any Jewish stereotypes and the black (or Jamaican) ones weren't readily apparent to me. The Gungans seemed to me like incompetent fishpeople -- or at least JarJar did, because if they were already incompetent, then the droids must've been even worse.
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i liked Jar Jar. he was one of my favorites, as was Wato. how was Wato a stereotypical Jewish, by the way? he didnt seem to fit any such stereotypes i knew of.
Well, he had a big nose, and was a greedy penny-pincher. Those are some of the most common jewish stereotypes.
Wato is the flying hand-wringing merchant/slave owner alien from episode one right? I had assumed he was a stereotypical Arab, but I suppose the antisemitic caricature is there too.
I honestly don't see why these overtly offensive stereotypes were abused throughout the films, I was like 9 when I saw the Phantom Menace and even I recognized that the Gungans were pretty poorly conceived.
Meh, I think the PT hate tends to be extremely exaggerated and out of proportion.
I agree. I think people have been reinforcing their hate through internet group-think. My take is that the prequel movies were okay. Not great, but not awful either.
The thing about the whole group-think thing is, it's rather a convenient way to dismiss something out of hand that may infact actually just be a legitimate general consensus.
Whether or not that's the case in this instance is for you all to judge for yourselves, of course.
i liked Jar Jar. he was one of my favorites, as was Wato. how was Wato a stereotypical Jewish, by the way? he didnt seem to fit any such stereotypes i knew of.
The thing about the whole group-think thing is, it's rather a convenient way to dismiss something out of hand that may infact actually just be a legitimate general consensus.
Whether or not that's the case in this instance is for you all to judge for yourselves, of course.
I just checked the website rotten tomatoes, which evalutes movies based on both audience and critic feedback. Their "cutoff" between a good movie and a bad movie is 60% approval.
The Phantom Menace got a 57% approval rating from critics and a 62% approval rating from fans. This is a "meh" grade.
Attack of the Clones got a 67% approval rating from critics and a 66% approval rating from fans. This is "meh" to "ok."
Revenge of the Sith got an 80% approval rating from critics and a 65% approval rating from fans. This is "ok" to "good."
I think in the seven years since Revenge of the Sith, more and more people have bought into the views of the detractors, many of whom proclaim that the prequels "destroyed their childhood memories" and "Lucas ruined Star Wars," etc., etc. Since most people who like the movies only like them moderately--and those who dislike the movies have stronger feelings--there isn't much of a debate (because supporters don't want to get into the argument)
So, on message boards, conventions, comic-cons, etc. one usually only hears one side of the debate and the "hard-core" fans begin to buy into the "hatred hypothesis." Thus, even though a majority of fans and critics liked all of the prequels, the geek community's group-think has deemed them totally awful.
Last edited by snoopy13a : 11-05-2012 at 10:07 PM.
There was some stuff to like about them. Truly, they're not bad movies.
-Jar Jar was a legitimately awful idea. I didn't mind the rest of the gungans quite as much but really, they could've done better.
-Some people complain that the prequels were too "polished" compared to the originals. I actually like that. To me, it enforces that the average person's standard of living and the general quality of life had decreased since the Republic was replaced by the Empire.
-Darth Maul and Count Dooku were actually pretty cool. Neither of them usurped Vader (which is really a good thing, I guess. Vader is the end all be all Sith) but they felt like proper Sith. General Grievous, on the other hand, had no business holding a lightsaber.
-Some of the political stuff in the 3rd movie was really good, I thought. Padme's line "So this is how democracy dies. With thunderous applause" (or something to that effect) really clicked for me.
-On the contrary, the politics in the 1st movie were crap.
-On the other hand, Anakin was a whiny bitch and clearly did not have any chemistry with Padme.
-The pod race was stupid.
-The lightsaber duels were...too cool. The originals felt more realistic, while these just got silly.
I just checked the website rotten tomatoes, which evalutes movies based on both audience and critic feedback. Their "cutoff" between a good movie and a bad movie is 60% approval.
The Phantom Menace got a 57% approval rating from critics and a 62% approval rating from fans. This is a "meh" grade.
Attack of the Clones got a 67% approval rating from critics and a 66% approval rating from fans. This is "meh" to "ok."
Revenge of the Sith got an 80% approval rating from critics and a 65% approval rating from fans. This is "ok" to "good."
I think in the seven years since Revenge of the Sith, more and more people have bought into the views of the detractors, many of whom proclaim that the prequels "destroyed their childhood memories" and "Lucas ruined Star Wars," etc., etc. Since most people who like the movies only like them moderately--and those who dislike the movies have stronger feelings--there isn't much of a debate (because supporters don't want to get into the argument)
So, on message boards, conventions, comic-cons, etc. one usually only hears one side of the debate and the "hard-core" fans begin to buy into the "hatred hypothesis." Thus, even though a majority of fans and critics liked all of the prequels, the geek community's group-think has deemed them totally awful.
Well, I don't know anything about arbitrary cutoff points, but the general figures there pretty much match my experiences on discussing the prequels with people. The First tends to be much more widely reviled than the last. That's not a small difference in percentage. At least on the critic side.
Last edited by Tiki Snakes : 11-05-2012 at 10:12 PM.
i liked Jar Jar. he was one of my favorites, as was Wato. how was Wato a stereotypical Jewish, by the way? he didnt seem to fit any such stereotypes i knew of.
Well for starters he had the hat that is very jewish in design. Then he was short, fat, ugly, very greedy with bad teeth and a large nose.
I say that is about 10 for 10 on the Jewish stereotype
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten Champion
Wato is the flying hand-wringing merchant/slave owner alien from episode one right? I had assumed he was a stereotypical Arab, but I suppose the antisemitic caricature is there too.
Well both Jews and Arabs are Semites...
As for the pod race: I didn't like it, but I loved the homage to Ben Hur.
__________________
"Sweet Haelga,
Last night was the most wonderful night of my life. The things you showed me... the things we did... I could never have dreamt that it was possible. Who even knew that someone could manipulate their body in that manner while wearing Daedric armor boots? You are a true master of the Dibellan Arts, my love... a credit to your religion. Perhaps we'll meet again soon but next time, allow me to bring the trout.
Your Secret Lover"
Last edited by Avilan the Grey : 11-06-2012 at 02:35 AM.
I thought it was sort of funny. It seemed like something her character really would say, so as a one liner it worked.
In the heat of a battle that could claim your life and the lives of dozens of you friends/allies, that sort of dialogue exchange is not going to happen.
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