Saga Edition: Kinetic Combat

[Alejandro]

One of the players (and my significant other) I GM for plays a noble/Jedi that uses the Kinetic Combat power. Charisma and Wisdom are her best stats.

Can anyone provide any suggestions as to how to make Kinetic Combat as effective as possible? She is somewhat frustrated at its general lack of ability compared to the other characters (no one is particularly optimized.) I have house ruled that she may apply Weapon Focus: Lightsabers to her attack rolls, but I would appreciate any other build or tip suggestions. Thanks!

[Alejandro]

In the absence of any better ideas, one change I was considering was clarifying the power's vague text of

"Talents and feats that would normally enhance a weapon's use do not do so
while you are using kinetic combat to wield the weapon (for example, you cannot use Mighty Swing or Power Attack while wielding the weapon)"

to

"Any benefit granted by a feat or talent that is based on Strength (such as Power Attack or Mighty swing) cannot be applied to the kinetic weapon's attacks. GM's discretion."

[IdleMuse]

This sounds like an interesting situation; I've never really looked at optimising Kinetic Combat before. I guess the place to start is to look at why you'd use KC in the first place, and work from there:

Firstly, and fairly importantly, you get to attack at a distance, which comes with the obvious benefits of survivability and flexibility; you don't need to worry about taking talents to aid your movement, as you can, for the most part, remain 'safe'. One way to optimise this is to really make sure you are out of harm's way while using KC; powers like Surge to get you onto high platforms, high stealth checks, that sort of thing. I note that confusingly, in the KC description, there's no mention of needing line of sight to maintain or use the power, just that you remain within 12sq. If you accept this, as a GM, then things like Smoke Grenades can provide extra defenses.

Secondly, with Improved KC (an obvious selection for someone specialising in it), you can wield three weapons, each of which provoke AoOs, so you can really get your money's worth with Combat Reflexes and a highish dex. Other things which play well with this are the Hold the Line talent (great for protecting you+other ranged combatants from melee charges), Demoralising Strike feat (plus other intimidate combo talents, if your player has Noble levels, great for getting more out of your AoOs that just damage).

Other things to note: KC doesn't specifically mention lightsabers, just one-handed melee weapons. While obviously, lightsabers are going to be the weapon of choice for melee, I noted a cool synergy with Force Disarm; if you Force Disarm somebodies weapon at range, and choose the option for it to fly into your hand, you can then use it with KC next round, which I thought was pretty funky, if not particularly powerful. Force Disarming people who are locked in melee combat with you at range seems good though, although action-intense.

The only weapon which qualifies that strikes me as particularly 'optimised' just beyond a basic saber is the oft-ridiculed Lightwhip; using the Threats of the Galaxy writeup, you can pin and trip people even without the feat (bypassing the restriction on KC, depending on how you view it?). I think a fair house-rule here would be to allow Cha rather than Str on the opposed roll But I love the idea of tripping people over with KC'd lightwhips! This could really add the punch your player is looking for, power-wise. Don't forget that lightwhips also have reach, making all the AoO stuff above better as well!

Finally, KC obviously has the [Telekinetic] keyword, so looking for stuff that combos off that is a fairly easy optimisation; One that stood out for me was the Waveform talent from the Order of Shasa tradition, which could easily be ruled to work with KC; might require a bit of flexibility from you, the GM, if you're normally strict about buying talents from traditions. Mini-adventure time?

That's pretty much all I came up with. I like the idea of the Lightwhips most, can really provide some very solid battlefield control once you get Improved Kinetic Combat.

[Alejandro]

Idlemuse,

Thank you for a thoughtful response. Some good ideas here.

Something else I am looking at is the Zeison Sha tradition in the Jedi Academy book. They are all about telekinetic wielding of weapons, specifically the discblade. However, I could see putting together a variant that uses the lightsaber instead, especially since both weapons do 2d8 damage anyway.

Discblade Arc could become Lightsaber Arc, but with the added requirement that each time the Jedi wishes to make this 3 target full attack, they must burn one use of Kinetic Combat. That way, the player has options; maintain the power and attack with a single saber that can be placed tactically, or make rapid, multi-target attacks?

Edit: Waveform isn't really useful for Kinetic Combat, because the character already gets to add their Charisma modifier to damage.

[IdleMuse]

I was imagining adding double your Cha bonus, with Waveform

Pretty much all of the Zeison Sha talents can be adapted without difficulty;

Discblade Arc: Your suggestion is perfect, burning a use to do it.
Distand Discblade Throw: Can extend the range of KC in a similar manner.
Recall Discblade: Would be very useful with KC at any rate.
Telekinetic Vigilance: Just replace Intercept with KC.
WS(Discblade): Isn't needed, since there are other ways of getting WS(Lightsabers).

[Alejandro]

That's what I will likely offer.

The Kinetic Combat power is really interesting, but very badly written. I suppose the only reason it's there is because of KOTOR 2.

[Alejandro]

Idlemuse: I decided to just let her take 'Lightsaber Arc' and use it as written, without having to expend a Force power each time she does it. It already costs a talent and has a six square range restriction, and is a full round action to do, so she can't maintain any Force powers and still do it. I think that's fair enough. Do you?

[IdleMuse]

I don't think that's a problem at all, balance-wise. I would certainly say that you shouldn't let her take a version of Distant Discblade Throw in this version, but I'm sure that that isn't too big a problem anyway.

Fluff-wise, I guess it would make more sense to have a tie-in to the force usage there somewhere (although I guess having a prereq of Kinetic Combat is good for that, which she obviously qualifies for). I guess you could make the attack roll UtF vs. Ref instead of Attack, but I actually think that attack is more balanced.

So yeah, in conclusion, I think that's fine.

[Alejandro]

Thanks. I appreciate having another Saga-speaking person to compare notes with that isn't a player in my group!

[IdleMuse]

Ah, no worries it's good to talk Saga Edition too, I haven't really been able to run or play in a proper campaign for a while now. I used to ghost the Wizards forum for Saga a whole lot, and that really helped in picking up the general know-how for the system, a bit more of a consensus on what's good, bad, house-ruleable, and so one.

As well as a plethora of useful indices and whatnot for planning Saga characters