How your computer operating system kills your computer

[Ghostwheel]

You have a computer. Every so often you get directed to make a "must have" download for security reasons, from the people who made the software that keeps your computer running. Each time that you do this, your operating system becomes a little bit larger and consumes a little bit more of your RAM just to operate.

This is an attack upon good sense. It is a way of dealing with customers as if they were a captive audience. This is tried and true b^&54it.

How do you deal with it?

[Marnath]

Originally Posted by Ghostwheel

You have a computer. Every so often you get directed to make a "must have" download for security reasons, from the people who made the software that keeps your computer running. Each time that you do this, your operating system becomes a little bit larger and consumes a little bit more of your RAM just to operate.

This is an attack upon good sense. It is a way of dealing with customers as if they were a captive audience. This is tried and true b^&54it.

How do you deal with it?

By turning off automatic updates. They're only "mandatory" if your computer knows about them.

[Rawhide]

Originally Posted by Marnath

By turning off automatic updates. They're only "mandatory" if your computer knows about them.

Do not do this.

Security updates are there for a reason, to plug security holes. If you go running around with an unpatched system, you are not only asking for trouble, but being a bad internet neighbour - as your computer is often then used to attack and hurt others.

[factotum]

You're also working from a false premise. The security downloads provided for Windows, Linux etc. more often than not *replace* an existing component, they don't add on top of it! If you're looking for the thing that tends to make your OS bloat over time, then I'm afraid it's almost certainly in the chair, not in the computer--it's the user who installs all the cool gizmos and software that come along, and then wonder why it takes 23 minutes for their system to boot.

[Flickerdart]

If you have problems managing running programs, I recommend Soluto. It's a really nifty tool, but I mostly use it for keeping unnecessary junk out of my boot.

[Jimor]

Originally Posted by factotum

You're also working from a false premise. The security downloads provided for Windows, Linux etc. more often than not *replace* an existing component, they don't add on top of it! If you're looking for the thing that tends to make your OS bloat over time, then I'm afraid it's almost certainly in the chair, not in the computer--it's the user who installs all the cool gizmos and software that come along, and then wonder why it takes 23 minutes for their system to boot.

Exactly. And it's not the OS that keeps adding to the overhead, it's all the OTHER programs that you install that want to automatically start their own update routines during bootup. For Windows users, msconfig is your friend, although you still want a handful of packages to keep looking for updates for the same security reasons: Main Browser, Office, Flash, Java, Anti-Virus, any other high-use or automatically launched add-on/plugin. Most everything else I set to only check when I actually launch the program, so I still get timely updates, they just don't add to the boot wait.

[Brother Oni]

A word of advice - don't go turning programs off in msconfig if you're not sure what you're doing.

Programs like CCleaner are also excellent for keeping your registry streamlined and your startup programs to minimum.

[Togath]

Originally Posted by Rawhide

Do not do this.

Security updates are there for a reason, to plug security holes. If you go running around with an unpatched system, you are not only asking for trouble, but being a bad internet neighbour - as your computer is often then used to attack and hurt others.

So updates aren't always useless/change what your browser is?
Darn. I wish I had realized that sooner. I think that's what hurt my main computer(not letting the security updates run).

[Brother Oni]

Originally Posted by Togath

So updates aren't always useless/change what your browser is?

Depends on what the update is. I've got my Windows Update set to notify, so I can see what I'm installing.
Security updates are pretty much mandatory. Functionality or bug fixing patches are dependent on whether I have that software/hardware installed and whether I need whatever it is they're patching for.

[Mordokai]

Originally Posted by Rawhide

Do not do this.

Security updates are there for a reason, to plug security holes. If you go running around with an unpatched system, you are not only asking for trouble, but being a bad internet neighbour - as your computer is often then used to attack and hurt others.

Living on the edge, baby

Originally Posted by factotum

You're also working from a false premise. The security downloads provided for Windows, Linux etc. more often than not *replace* an existing component, they don't add on top of it! If you're looking for the thing that tends to make your OS bloat over time, then I'm afraid it's almost certainly in the chair, not in the computer--it's the user who installs all the cool gizmos and software that come along, and then wonder why it takes 23 minutes for their system to boot.

Ah, the infamous IBM* error. God knows I've been subjected to it often enough

*Idiot before monitor.

[KuReshtin]

Originally Posted by Mordokai

Ah, the infamous IBM* error. God knows I've been subjected to it often enough

*Idiot before monitor.

Aka PEBCAK, or ID-ten-T USR error.

[scurv]

There is rules here about offering professional advice, But here is something I express to people

If the Idiots on you tube can figure it out.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlvbV...eature=related

Those updates help keep the scriptkiddies out of your machine. I advise you to install them. Yes they will take up more room on your machine. Yes some of them will upset system stability when there is installed software that exploits system files.

If your window updates are making your system unstable. I would advise a format and re install, You may very well have a rootkit in there that has hijacked several system files and dll's. Windows updates sometimes make rootkited systems unstable due to file conflicts.

Regardless keep your credit info off of that machine.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Originally Posted by Mordokai

Ah, the infamous IBM* error. God knows I've been subjected to it often enough

I was told the most common computer error is usually in the end user's DNA..

The thing about updates isn't that they're unneeded, it's that they're completely annoying and pop up way too often (case in point: Firefox, which had almost daily version updates for the better part of a year before I gave up and turned them off completely). They also more often than not break something with an "improvement" that isn't an improvement at all (i.e. especially interface overhauls that make something more shiny but less usable because controls are missing from their usual places).

Finally, some programs like Java or anything Adobe ever that isn't $1k software will want an almost daily update that disrupts your routine by doing stuff like making you restart computer/browser, and making you wait all the time.

[karak]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart

If you have problems managing running programs, I recommend Soluto. It's a really nifty tool, but I mostly use it for keeping unnecessary junk out of my boot.

I don't hear this program brought up a great deal but it is amazing...amazing for finding out what is slowing your boot down.

[valadil]

Assuming each update did indeed consume more memory, I'd rather lose RAM to the update than to the malware that slipped in while the system was unpatched.

[Rawhide]

Originally Posted by Don Julio Anejo

I was told the most common computer error is usually in the end user's DNA..

The thing about updates isn't that they're unneeded, it's that they're completely annoying and pop up way too often (case in point: Firefox, which had almost daily version updates for the better part of a year before I gave up and turned them off completely). They also more often than not break something with an "improvement" that isn't an improvement at all (i.e. especially interface overhauls that make something more shiny but less usable because controls are missing from their usual places).

Finally, some programs like Java or anything Adobe ever that isn't $1k software will want an almost daily update that disrupts your routine by doing stuff like making you restart computer/browser, and making you wait all the time.

If you don't want to be subject to Firefox's absolutely ludicrous update schedule, then use the Extended Support Release. It's a feature locked release that only receives security and stability updates to this schedule.

Though, I no longer recommend Firefox at all.

[factotum]

I think saying that things like Java or Adobe Reader require daily updates is a massive exaggeration anyway. According to the Java control panel on the machine I'm typing this on my Java only checks for updates once a month anyway. I can only think of one Adobe Reader update my machine has needed in the last month or two, as well.

[Brother Oni]

Originally Posted by factotum

I can only think of one Adobe Reader update my machine has needed in the last month or two, as well.

The Adobe update checker does have a irritating habit of re-inserting itself into your startup programs after every update though.

[factotum]

Well, yes, how would it check for updates otherwise? I'm pretty sure it gives you the option, though--you can tell it to never check for updates and just do it manually if you want to.

[The Succubus]

I do have a solution to Ghostwheel's problem. Strip out Windows and install OS/2 Warp. That way he won't be troubled by updates *OR* malware!




What do you mean he actually wants to run programs?

[Brother Oni]

Originally Posted by factotum

Well, yes, how would it check for updates otherwise? I'm pretty sure it gives you the option, though--you can tell it to never check for updates and just do it manually if you want to.

I know you set it to manual updates only, but it still puts the autoupdate program into startup regardless.

[shawnhcorey]

Originally Posted by The Succubus

I do have a solution to Ghostwheel's problem. Strip out Windows and install OS/2 Warp. That way he won't be troubled by updates *OR* malware!




What do you mean he actually wants to run programs?

Or just install Linux. There are a whole bunch of Linux programmers out there rewriting it so that it is tighter, smaller, and faster. And Linux has an incredibly large number of useful apps.

[Rawhide]

Originally Posted by shawnhcorey

Or just install Linux. There are a whole bunch of Linux programmers out there rewriting it so that it is tighter, smaller, and faster. And Linux has an incredibly large number of useful apps.

And that completely misses the point that The Succubus was making entirely.

[TheEmerged]

Originally Posted by KuReshtin

Aka PEBCAK, or ID-ten-T USR error.

I prefer the "Insufficient User Error" variant myself.

[Trixie]

Originally Posted by Marnath

By turning off automatic updates. They're only "mandatory" if your computer knows about them.

*facepalm*

Originally Posted by Rawhide

Though, I no longer recommend Firefox at all.

Why?

It might not be as superior as it once was, but still, Chrome and Opera lag far behind, at least for the power user. Did anything changed while I wasn't looking?

Originally Posted by shawnhcorey

Or just install Linux. There are a whole bunch of Linux programmers out there rewriting it so that it is tighter, smaller, and faster. And Linux has an incredibly large number of useful apps.

Linux: the only completely legal OS where 99.9% content does not exist or is illegal

So, yeah, if you don't need games, multimedia, office, music editing, graphics/3D programs*, want to install everything by writing "AptGreptGzipt PrgrmNme_1.0974alfa -12347it -nosound -t -x -y -x -param:ctrl -abcd" into command line and by chance the only thing you want to do is to run web server, Linux is just for you!

*There are some minor exceptions to above, but it's like arguing tricycle is good replacement for a car.

[The Succubus]

I'm going to have Linux as a secondary OS on my new computer. I can't wait to see how Team Fortress, Left 4 Dead, Dungeons of Dredmor and possily Dota 2 run through the brand new Steam client for Linux.

ANy penguinistas out there care to suggest a flavour? I've heard bad things about Ubuntu and I'm currently looking at Linux Mint.

Also, Open Office is a more than capable replacement for Microsoft Office. Or there's Libre Office.

Inkscape, the program a large percentage of our Arts and Crafts community uses for avatars is originally a Linux program and comes pre installed with many distros.

Don't underestimate the penguin, young pony!

[Rawhide]

Originally Posted by Trixie

Why?

It might not be as superior as it once was, but still, Chrome and Opera lag far behind, at least for the power user. Did anything changed while I wasn't looking?

How do I hate thee, let me count the reasons.

Their upgrade cycle is pathetic. They change things and break things such as compatibility far too readily and quickly. And don't get me started on the version numbering scheme, I know this is purely aesthetic, but... *shakes head*

It's not actually all that fast, despite claims (not a negative, but a lack of a positive).

It's an absolute memory hog. Leave it running any decent amount of time with any reasonable amount of tabs open and it starts to slow things right down. Heck, it happens even on one tab. Not just the browser window, the entire computer. This is by design, not a memory leak or other bug.

The interface, while still quite usable, has not improved, but unimproved (yes, I did check that word in the dictionary, because it didn't feel right).

Mac users should absolutely, positively, stay clear of Firefox. It is lacking integration with the Keychain (!), dictionary/encylopedia look up function (very frustrating), other system functions, and retina display support.

I'll say this one again, lack of retina display support for Mac users. Something that has existed in Safari, Chrome, and Opera for quite a while.

Generally poor support for Mac users.

Back on Windows for now on, the automatic updater sometimes fails, then decides to use the full upgrade, which also fails.

The automatic updater sometimes decides to do an upgrade, whether you like it or not, even if you instruct it that you do not want to perform that upgrade. Yes, I was delaying an upgrade on a particular PC for development reasons, yes, this did happen to me.


Various other reasons I'm too slack to bother remembering now, but might add later as I remember them.


I would no longer recommend Firefox, not even for power users.

[Sir Enigma]

Originally Posted by Rawhide

How do I hate thee, let me count the reasons.

It's an absolute memory hog. Leave it running any decent amount of time with any reasonable amount of tabs open and it starts to slow things right down. Heck, it happens even on one tab. Not just the browser window, the entire computer. This is by design, not a memory leak or other bug.

I noticed this one as well, which prompted me to switch to Chrome.

Originally Posted by Rawhide

Back on Windows for now on, the automatic updater on sometimes fails, then decides to use the full upgrade, which also fails.

Thunderbird, which I'm still using, also has this problem, at least on Win7 - do you know any way to stop it, or is there an alternate program you'd recommend that I could replace it with?

[The Succubus]

Originally Posted by Rawhide

I would no longer recommend Firefox, not even for power users.

Fair enough - which browsers would you recommend for optimum OotS oggling pleasure?

[Trixie]

Originally Posted by The Succubus

I'm going to have Linux as a secondary OS on my new computer. I can't wait to see how Team Fortress, Left 4 Dead, Dungeons of Dredmor and possily Dota 2 run through the brand new Steam client for Linux.

One issue - drivers. Demanding 3D games need all the power they can get, they don't like to have only 50% of the power because of third rate attention given to platform they run on.

ANy penguinistas out there care to suggest a flavour? I've heard bad things about Ubuntu and I'm currently looking at Linux Mint.

Hint - look what has easiest installation methods and largest repositories, Linux is sooo fun when halfway through installation you find out critical package dependencies are nowhere to be found in your distro's repository and you have to voodoo recompile them to finish install, absolutely favourite pastime of everyone wanting his PC to just work!

Also, Open Office is a more than capable replacement for Microsoft Office. Or there's Libre Office.

Only if you don't need minor thing called compatibility with .doc and .xml files. I saw results of trying to read and save .docs on these, it wasn't pretty.

I mostly use office to make legal papers I am giving to various officials at public institutions, getting even one of these wrong would cost me more than MS Office costs.

Inkscape, the program a large percentage of our Arts and Crafts community uses for avatars is originally a Linux program and comes pre installed with many distros.

I use Corel Suite. There is no open source graphic program that gets colour representation right if you want to print it on anything more professional than ink printer. Again, cost of suite is less than ruining an order due to badly implemented non-professional program. Inkscape is good for amateur dabbling in the avatar drawings, not so good at DTP.

Don't underestimate the penguin, young pony!

I had to use it for five years, for uni. For the record? Linux won't even legally play DVD back then, it was all *wink wink* reverse-engineered code that technically did not differ from pirated Windows stuff in legality, thank you. I still use Linux for programming, HDD operations, and web servers, but as an general use OS, it's so atrocious I'd prefer to use MacOS instead, and it's saying something. You are non-power user? Spare yourself a few hundred dollars that fixing repair costs of Linux will do and just forget it, IMHO.