Martial Scripts

[Tvtyrant]

Rereading the Martial Scripts segment of Tome of Battle, I don't see any reference to limited uses per day nor to the script being consumed by use. This item is rarely referenced, probably because is makes little sense, but the ability to pick up a free stance for a none initiator seems like something that would be discussed more.

Am I missing something, or are Scripts merely underappreciated?

[AmberVael]

A martial script is a small strip of paper or cloth marked with delicate lettering that holds the secret of a martial maneuver. Any given script grants the use of the maneuver recorded on it for one encounter. Once it is activated, a script vanishes in a puff of white smoke.

So, it's a one use item that gives you a maneuver for a single encounter- and if it is a normal maneuver, that means one use within that encounter, unless you're an adept that can refresh maneuvers.

Generally, you're better off just picking up one of the wondrous items that gives you a maneuver permanently. They're fairly cheap.

[Tvtyrant]

They would stick that in the fluff section. I still think it is good for stances, but it certainly explains why they aren't popular.

[pffh]

Do ever leave a stance unless you end it? Would that mean that I could get one stance script and then just remain in that stance indefinitely?

[Dusk Eclipse]

IIRC you only end a stance when you change into another stance or voluntary leave it.

[Tvtyrant]

Originally Posted by pffh

Do ever leave a stance unless you end it? Would that mean that I could get one stance script and then just remain in that stance indefinitely?

That is my understanding, yes. Want SA? Buy a script!

[Urpriest]

To be fair, if you wanted to stick to stupid levels of RAW, you could argue that vanishing in a puff of smoke doesn't mean it's gone, it just means it's invisible, and with see invisibility you could use it again.

[Tvtyrant]

Originally Posted by Urpriest

To be fair, if you wanted to stick to stupid levels of RAW, you could argue that vanishing in a puff of smoke doesn't mean it's gone, it just means it's invisible, and with see invisibility you could use it again.

By that line of reasoning all classes are gender specific. To bad your male character wanted to be a Sublime Chord.

[eggs]

There's also the problem where stances aren't maneuvers. They have a clause that lets them count as maneuvers for the purposes of maneuver prereqs, but otherwise, they're a separate mechanic.

[Psyren]

Originally Posted by Urpriest

To be fair, if you wanted to stick to stupid levels of RAW, you could argue that vanishing in a puff of smoke doesn't mean it's gone, it just means it's invisible, and with see invisibility you could use it again.

Only problem is that this reading makes regular scrolls reusable too. "The writing vanishes from the scroll when the spell is activated."

But "vanish" is used in a variety of ways in core. It could mean "becomes invisible" as you suggest, or even "becomes ethereal" (from Blink) or "gets destroyed" (Disintegrate.) So the DM would still have to arbitrate; there is no RAW here.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse

IIRC you only end a stance when you change into another stance or voluntary leave it.

You also lose the stance if you're ever rendered helpless.

This means you must never sleep, amongst other things, if you want to always have the stance.

The RAW on whether stances are maneuvers that can be put into martial scripts is ambiguous at best. I could easily imagine a DM ruling it either way. I allow it in my game, but YMMV.

[eggs]

Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera

The RAW on whether stances are maneuvers that can be put into martial scripts is ambiguous at best. I could easily imagine a DM ruling it either way. I allow it in my game, but YMMV.

I tried using that to bootstrap Martial Stance's prerequisites once, but then ran into ToB p.43: "A stance is not a maneuver."

And from there, it seems pretty clear-cut.

[Acanous]

Even if you could have a script of a Stance, I wouldn't find it overpowered to make it last a day. There's spells with 24 hour duration you can get scrolls of. This isn't that much of a stretch.

[mattie_p]

Originally Posted by eggs

I tried using that to bootstrap Martial Stance's prerequisites once, but then ran into ToB p.43: "A stance is not a maneuver."

So from there, it really seems pretty clear-cut.

Also, same page, "Stances are considered maneuvers for the purpose of fulfilling prerequisites for learning higher-level maneuvers, or qualifying for prestige classes or feats."

This list is pretty exclusive, does not seem to include martial scripts. But eggs, you should have been good to go.

[eggs]

Originally Posted by mattie_p

This list is pretty exclusive, does not seem to include martial scripts. But eggs, you should have been good to go.

The problem was the Martial Stance feat's maneuver prereq, which doesn't have that allowance, even if the stance itself is fair game.

EDIT: Huh. I don't know how we missed the PrC/feat prt there. Looks like that would have worked.

[mattie_p]

Originally Posted by eggs

The problem was the Martial Stance feat's maneuver prereq, which doesn't have that allowance, even if the stance itself is fair game.

Originally Posted by ToB, p31

MARTIAL STANCE
Prerequisite: One martial maneuver.

Originally Posted by ToB, p43

Stances are considered maneuvers for the purpose of fulfilling prerequisites for learning higher-level maneuvers, or qualifying for prestige classes or feats.

I really don't see the problem, other than ensuring that you time the stance around when you gain a level. Of course, the timing problem goes away with chaos shuffle, but there's already a thread arguing that.