Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVI: "Terminator? I hardly know 'er!"

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by Squark

Oh. I wasn't sure if the rhino hatch came in the razorback kit or not.

The top hatches are part of the main sprue, rather than an optional turret part. And the vehicle upgrades (Storm Bolter pintle, Hunter Killer, etc.) come with every single tank kit. The only kit that doesn't readily transform from [tank] to Rhino is the Vindicator, as the Vindicator has extra parts on the roof that connect to the front plate - which is also totally different to the Rhino.

[Hootman]

Sigh. Tanksgiving was a flop, just like all the other 40k events we've had recently--I keep being the only competitor, so claiming victory rings pretty hollow. And after all that work I put in this week to make my kustom Ork Battlefortress table-capable too...

Does anyone have any suggestions for how we can get more people into the store, especially on event days? I thought all of the events were fairly well publicized for a FLGS (Facebook, store website, and in-store), but apparently something's missing.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Originally Posted by Hootman

Sigh. Tanksgiving was a flop, just like all the other 40k events we've had recently--I keep being the only competitor, so claiming victory rings pretty hollow. And after all that work I put in this week to make my kustom Ork Battlefortress table-capable too...

Does anyone have any suggestions for how we can get more people into the store, especially on event days? I thought all of the events were fairly well publicized for a FLGS (Facebook, store website, and in-store), but apparently something's missing.

Is it a total absence of anyone else in the store, or are they just playing other games?

Because if people have moved on to other games then it's often very hard to draw them back towards 40k. You could try advertising for other gamers on TMP or various other forums, but if I were you I'd probably start looking into other games that people will play with you. Note that this doesn't have to be whatever they're currently playing, but just something that you can agree on.

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by Hootman

but apparently something's missing.

A playerbase?
How many people normally show up on, well, normal days? I hear several stories about FLGS' having events that 'fail' because nobody shows up, even though on a good day they might get six 40K players in.

The thing that my local GW has problems with, is, well, just the simple fact that 'Events'...Suck. Whether it's 'Race Your Vehicle' or 'Dreadfight', nobody is interested. What people really want to do is just play games. Even less people are interested in anything even remotely dealing with Apocalypse or Forgeworld-level vehicles, or any Event that even allows them, because that particular system is broken, and you have to go big or stay home, because not everyone has the time or resources of putting together an Ork Battlefortress.

I've got several armies ranging from 750 to 2500 points, and even multiple builds for each army that I own. And I'll play against anyone you want me to. But you can't ask me to spend $160 on say, a Baneblade, for a model I'll barely use except for days like this one. For $160, I'll buy myself a Battleforce TYVM which is something that I'll actually use more than once a year.

Yeah, I've been in the hobby almost 20 years. Yes, I have a nice job where I can totally afford to buy a Thunderhawk anytime I want...But what for? What would be the point in me having a Thunderhawk except for just to have it? Okay, that's a bit much. Let's bring it down to a Land Raider Ares, or Terminus Ultra, hell, I know I could make a Helios work too. But nobody is ever going to let me use any of those things. So why would I get one? Sigh face.

Anyway, the important thing is to get your playerbase together, and find out what they actually want and what their resources are, and do events based on that. At the very least you could be playing Kill-Team (so long as nobody intentionally breaks it).

[Tome]

My FLGS does events fairly frequently with a decent turn out. Mostly tournaments and campaigns, but about once a year they put together a big apocalypse game.

[Timberwolf]

Once a year is about right for Apoc. I love my Titan, I like using it, I love the level of effort that's gone into it, even if it's not finished. It was my reward to me for surviving a year of my old job, but I wouldn't want to use it every week. I'm mainly doing it for the modelling though, with the added enjoyment of the look on my opponents' faces when a Reaver comes out of its case on the occasions I do play Apoc. It never lives through the game, but it sorts my "Big Stompy Mech" cravings that the person who started off loving the Battletech Universe first just gets from time to time.

I don't really go in for events myself. I've just changed areas, going from a strong meta to a one that's a lot more casual (I've even stopped using my beloved gunships as there's really no point and I just want to play) but, tbh, my local GW's events interest me not at all and the local club's events are mainly tournaments, which is what people here are interested in because it's a nice day with nice people and we play a few games, have a few drinks and it's all fun.

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf

Once a year is about right for Apoc. I love my Titan, I like using it, I love the level of effort that's gone into it, even if it's not finished.

In November the Capital City of my state's GW store hosts a 16,000 point Apocalypse tournament (one to two players per army, apparently it's an option to have a partner or not) every year. It's exceptional to look at the boards every round, but I really don't think I'm up for that sort of shenanigans. Especially because I'm not a big buyer of things Forgeworld.

I'm mainly doing it for the modelling though, with the added enjoyment of the look on my opponents' faces when a Reaver comes out of its case on the occasions I do play Apoc.

Like I said, while I would love to make a Land Raider Ares, Helios or Terminus Ultra, it wouldn't really do anything. Maybe I'd take a photo of it and post it in a couple of places over the internet...But aside from that, it'd sit in it's case and I'd never look at it again. Or I could put it on a shelf and it would collect dust and get ruined.

That being said, if I were to get a Super-Heavy and not just a Land Raider, it'd probably be a Shadowsword. Just so I can shoot Titans.

Although, I could probably whip up something from IA-A2(2E), my opponents don't get to say no if I use something from that book.

but, tbh, my local GW's events interest me not at all and the local club's events are mainly tournaments, which is what people here are interested in because it's a nice day with nice people and we play a few games, have a few drinks and it's all fun.

One time, in the store, there were a couple of guys playing a few games. Typically, in the front end of the store are two 4x4 tables where people play small games and intro-games (like DV) where a passer-by can generally look in. Anyway, on one such 'Event Day' (it was something like a Tank Battle lolsocoollikeOMG), two games were stopped early and cleared to make the 8x4 table that does Events.

...No-one did anything. The four guys playing their two games were standing around pissed that their game had been halted early. There were another five guys painting and doing some modelling, none of whom were interested in the 'event' and were only passing time until they had an opponent or table space. Not including the other guys in the back on the bigger tables, already playing games.

There were 16 people in the store. Ten of them essentially free to play a game. And none of them - including myself - wanted to do the OMGSUPERCOOL Event. In an actual GW Store. And that's not even including all the people who intentonally stayed away from GW that day because they knew an Event was happening.
I think that's about the time my GW gave up trying to do events. The only thing they really set up these days are Kill-Team Leagues and 500-point round robins. Which are effectively tournaments, or, actual games.

[Borgh]

Yup, my (former) local GW pretty much only hosts events that have to do with army building (tale of X gamers) or facilitate gaming (a ladder comptition).
They sometimes hold game days with special rules too but that is usually to celebrate some new release and The rules never get too restrictive.

[Hootman]

Originally Posted by Cheesegear

A playerbase?
How many people normally show up on, well, normal days? I hear several stories about FLGS' having events that 'fail' because nobody shows up, even though on a good day they might get six 40K players in.

Man, I WISH it were just because it was Event Day. No, sadly, I've been the only dedicated 40k player in the shop on most weekends for the past few months. I would think it were just that the other guys may have gone away to college and aren't local on weekends, but no one was really around during the summer either, so I don't know what happened. Everyone just got, I dunno, eaten by Tyranids or something.

[Tychris1]

Originally Posted by Hootman

Man, I WISH it were just because it was Event Day. No, sadly, I've been the only dedicated 40k player in the shop on most weekends for the past few months. I would think it were just that the other guys may have gone away to college and aren't local on weekends, but no one was really around during the summer either, so I don't know what happened. Everyone just got, I dunno, eaten by Tyranids or something.

Sorry, they got really hungry one day and I couldn't find the local Mcdonalds....

[Klose_the_Sith]

Originally Posted by Hootman

Man, I WISH it were just because it was Event Day. No, sadly, I've been the only dedicated 40k player in the shop on most weekends for the past few months. I would think it were just that the other guys may have gone away to college and aren't local on weekends, but no one was really around during the summer either, so I don't know what happened. Everyone just got, I dunno, eaten by Tyranids or something.

As I said, you need to figure out where the local scene has gone. There are at least 200 gamers in my regional Australian town, so what's your excuse?

[Renegade Paladin]

There's a big regional tournament this Saturday. List:

Spoiler

1850 points

Company Command Squad - 200
-Medi-pack, carapace armor
-Three plasma guns
-Chimera dedicated transport

Storm Trooper Squad - 115
-Two plasma guns

Storm Trooper Squad - 105
-Two meltaguns

Veteran Squad - 140
-Three grenade launchers
-Chimera dedicated transport

Veteran Squad - 155
-Three meltaguns
-Chimera dedicated transport
--Heavy flamer

Veteran Squad - 155
-Three meltaguns
-Chimera dedicated transport
--Heavy flamer

Veteran Squad - 100
-Three meltaguns

Valkyrie - 100

Hellhound - 130

Devil Dog - 135
-Multi-melta

Leman Russ Battle Tank - 150

Leman Russ Battle Tank - 170
-Heavy bolter sponsons

Leman Russ Demolisher - 195
-Multimelta sponsons

The meta will be far more mixed than I'm used to. I'm trying to build anti-horde as well as anti-Marine into the list as a result, and put the higher points cap towards letting me do that. With three large blasts, the grenade launchers, and a Hellhound in the mix, I think I've got it pretty well covered, but I welcome ideas.

[BoSheck]

I'm going to the same tournament. I haven't played anything but Dark Angels for the past...whatever. But anyway, since my Contemptor Mortis dreads are home-made conversions they're not welcome, time to bring out the wolves.

Spoiler

270 - HQ - Valkur: wolf claw/storm shield/thunderwolf/2x fenrisian
wolves/ saga of the warrior born, runic armor
275 - Logan Grimnar
100 - HQ - Rune Priest Tyr: Divination/??;
260 - Fast - 4 Thunderwolf Cavalry storm shield; melta bombs; power fist
115 - Wolf's Hook - Elite- 5 Wolf Scouts: 2x power weapon; melta gun
330 - Troops - 5x Wolf Guard combi melta/power fist; terminator
armor/cyclone missile; Arjac
110 - Skull Pack - Troops - 7x Grey Hunters: 1x meltagun
95 - Wolfbones - Troops - 6x Grey Hunters: 1x meltagun
145 - Hagalaz - Long Fangs: 2x missile launcher; 2x lascannon
115 - Sunwolf Pack - 5 long fangs, 4x multimelta
----->35 - Drop Pod

So here's the thing. Ton of experience playing this list last edition. Wolf scouts can't attack after they come in any more so I feel like they have to go unless somebody talks me out of it. Since their honoray wolfguard goes too, that leave me with 140 points to fill. So what do I bring?

Right now I'm looking at: Full Missile Fangs
More Grey Hunters + a Chainfist Lone Wolf (love those guys)
Plain old more Grey Hunters.

Also I need a second discipline for my Rune Priest. A departure from Jaws/Lightning is unsettling but...need that Divination.

[Peacemoon]

A few months ago i went to the GW headquarters in Nottingham, on a bus trip with my local gaming group.
it was a long and arduous journey, but eventually we reached our prise .


And lo' behold for there was many much gaming and shiny models there...
including an apocalypse match involving multiple titans ...
so we sat down on one of the few clear tables (not literally, we sat next to it, not on it.) and had a large game.

and many much knowledge was learned on this trip, such as that People still go to events and that you should not try to finish the heart-clogger from bugmans bar ...

- the game-ening 41: 34

[Peacemoon]

However, i do think that interest has dropped off, mainly due to all the F***ing marine meta players...

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by Peacemoon

and many much knowledge was learned on this trip, such as that People still go to events and that you should not try to finish the heart-clogger from bugmans bar ...

Certainly not when, only 15 minutes' walk away, is Annie's Burger Shack where you can partake in the legendary Elvis Burger.

10oz of prime beef, smothered in crunchy peanut butter and raspberry jam. It really is much better than it sounds

[Renegade Paladin]

Played three games, lost three games, but they were all very close. The first was against another Guard force, hybrid mech/infantry. Being Guard v. Guard, we only got to turn 4. On turn 5 one of the objectives would have changed hands, seeing how he was down to one depleted squad on it surrounded by melta vets and storm troopers, but the TO called time. The second was against Tyranids. It was a kill point mission, and he was playing Nidzilla. On turn 2 I came within two wounds each of killing both his Mawlocs, but couldn't quite do the job because the gun line got in each others' way and I couldn't focus fire enough. In any case, my list had about twenty kill points in it and his had ten or so; I couldn't catch up. Game three was the Scouring mission on Hammer and Anvil deployment against a fast attack-less Eldar army. The high value objectives wound up on his side of the table, so although I held more of them and had essentially destroyed his forward elements, I couldn't push forward fast or hard enough to take the 3 or 4 point objectives from him. I did get Slay the Warlord first turn, though, because a battle cannon shell scattered off of the Wraithlords and into his Farseer's face. His other Farseer then got to find out what happens when a Farseer assaults a squad of storm troopers unsupported.

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin

Played three games, lost three games, but they were all very close. The first was against another Guard force, hybrid mech/infantry.
[...] The second was against Tyranids.
[...] Game three was the Scouring mission on Hammer and Anvil deployment against a fast attack-less Eldar army.

No Marines? Not even Grey Knights? I'm pretty sure you had the best opponents you could've had. But I really don't see how you could have lost except for...Oh...I see your list. It's kind of all over the place.

Have you changed your list at all between 5th and 6th? I suggest in the future, tone down the Meltaguns, and try and stick at least one Flamer or Template weapon in every unit you expect to Score, and definitely have one Flamer in every Veteran Squad.

I wish I could have gotten to this sooner.

[Renegade Paladin]

Originally Posted by Cheesegear

No Marines? Not even Grey Knights? I'm pretty sure you had the best opponents you could've had. But I really don't see how you could have lost except for...Oh...I see your list. It's kind of all over the place.

Have you changed your list at all between 5th and 6th? I suggest in the future, tone down the Meltaguns, and try and stick at least one Flamer or Template weapon in every unit you expect to Score, and definitely have one Flamer in every Veteran Squad.

I wish I could have gotten to this sooner.

For the Tyranids, all the monstrous creatures had Iron Arm, would not fail psychic tests, and were T9 all the time. For the Guard, a fifth turn would have clenched victory, but time was called. For the Eldar, the high value objectives were on his side of the board. Also, I never got a useful warlord trait and went second every game.

[Timberwolf]

That happened to me last time I went up against Nidzilla in a doubles tournament in a glorious game of epic failure. Iron Arm Tervigons, Flyrant and Swarmlord. We nailed the Flyrant with railguns and plasma before he could A) take off and b) cast Iron Arm, but T9 Swarmlord is nothing to laugh at. Fortunately he was far enough back that we could ignore him until turn 4, by which point it was apparent that we were stuffed anyway. My partner failing 2 consecutive LS9 leadership checks and having 600 points worth of Crisis suits run off the board wasn't the greatest turn 2 we could have had either. Still, we got the sportsmanship award and that helped pay for a new Vindicator, so the day wasn't a total loss

[BoSheck]

Well, I'll just get this out of the way. I didn't win a single roll to go first, nor did I sieze a single initiative the whole tournament. Nor did I once get to pick my own deployment zone, also my warlord traits were all useless. (Per mission, had they been rolled at different times in the night I would have been gleeful.) So here's some summary batreps sinee I'm exhausted.

Spoiler

Here's my list:

Spoiler

270 - HQ - Wolf Lord Valkur: wolf claw/storm shield/thunderwolf/2x fenrisian
wolves/ saga of the warrior born, runic armor

275 - HQ Logan Grimnar

100 - HQ - Rune Priest Tyr


315 - Troops - 5x Wolf Guard 1x terminator
armor/cyclone missile/power fist; Arjac


110 - Troops - Skull Pack - 7x Grey Hunters: 1x meltagun

110 - Troops - Wolfbones - 7x Grey Hunters: 1x meltagun



260 - Fast Attack - 4 Thunderwolf Cavalry storm shield; melta bombs; power fist


145 - Heavy Support - Hagalaz -5 Long Fangs: 2x missile launcher; 2x lascannon

115 - Heavy Support - Tiewaz - 5 Long Fangs, 4x Missile Launcher
115 - Heavy Support - Sunwolf Pack - 5 long fangs, 4x multimelta
----->35 - Dedicated - Drop Pod (Sunwolf Pack)

Game one:

Opponent's List:

Spoiler

Flyrant

Flyrant

Mawloc

Mawloc

15x Termigaunts in a Pod

15x Termigaunts in a Pod

Tervigon

Tervigon

Doom of Mal-anti in a Pod.

So first of all, I REALLY miss not being able ot just reserve everything and devalue shock-troop lists like this. The Mission was 5 objectives (Arrrrgh!). We had Night Fighting, so both our turn 1's were really really boring. Logan started on the board with a group of long fangs and the drop pod came down empty. Except both his Tervigons jammed turn 1. So essentially a worst case scenario as far as I'm concerned. Doom comes down turn 2, and manages to tag 4 squads in his little sucky sucky. two of the rolls were a 17 and a 15, cause my dice are HOT. Also made a ton of invulns, and a fair amount of cover saves when Mawlocs came burowing up from the depths to eat two packs of long fangs. Logan roared and used his feat great wolf ability, catching basically every Space Wolf unit on the board with it. Telentless multimeltas lashed into a mawloc, Valkur ran off to take on a full squad of gaunts by himself, the other wolves do the same, grey hunters merrily charge in and heap volumes of attacks on low initiative MC and Nid psykers. Over the course of a few turns, one of the Mawlocs falls to being stuck in the middle of my whole army, the other gets tied up with the Rune Priest and his fangs, after they hurt it a little with some firepower. One of the flyrants got grounded mid-army later and ate a charge from the Great Wolf and his remaining unit. Prescience was not all it's cracked up to be, I REALLY wanted Jaws this game, Rune Staves are still baller, of course. But, when it was all said and done, a Warrior Born glutted S5 Wolf Claw makes short work of even the 'ardest MC. 14 attacks w/rerolls to wound is pretty good. I won by virtue of squatting on multiple objectives and repelling the majority of the encroaching army. It didn't hurt that he was kind enough to put all his objectives on my half of the board too, allowing my strategy of a single Wolf Guard to completely hide from all shooting and claim an objective.


GAME 2.

Spoiler

Flyrant

15X Gargoyles

Elite Genestealers

Elite Genestealers

Trygon

Trygon

15x Termigaunts

15x Termigaunts

Tervigon

Tervigon

Doom of Mal-anti in a Pod.

THIS HAS SOME FAMILIARITY.


Kill points. yay. So, I hunker up in an entire corner of the board and play "come get me." Drop pod comes down empty WAAAY on the other side--gonna make them MCs work for that kill point. This guy has awful, horrible dice. His Flyrant crashes immediately to small arms fire, and eventually kills himself with a psychic test and he failed so many charges through terrain. The mawlocs were WAY more brutal than the trygons, who I basically ignored. The Doom hurts me pretty hardcore, compeltely wiping my Meltas, but he gets popped when a certain somebody flings a Thunder Hammer at him. Valkur managed to get into the Genestealers mid-game and started fueling the Warrior Born while Logan single-handedly took care of the other brood. Arjac died in a challenege having suffered 2 wounds and needing to only make 1 invuln. I really wanted Jaws...again. Anyway, I win 9-6, because of abusing challenges and hiding in terrain to delay charges.


Game 3:

Guard/chaos allies list

Spoiler

Company Command Squad

Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad

10x Mans

10x Mans

10x Mans

3x Lascannon HWT

10x Vets in a Chimera, 1x flamer, 1x plasma, 1x melta

Basilisk

Vindicator

1x Demolisher

1x Executioner

1x Plague Marine Champion

10x Plague Marines

10x Plague Marines

5x Chaos Terminators w/ Mark of Slaanesh + Force Mauls

The Scouring. I end up with both the 3 pointers and the 4 in my deployment zone, the mysteroius objectives are also quite kind to me. A single Wolf guard gets parked on the 4, completely hidden from line of sight.

He carefully spaces everything in his deployment zone so there's nowhere good for my drop pod to land. But since he's got first turn and it's night fighting, he rolls up with all the marines (frontal screen on the Russes) but fails to advance the guard. I actually elected to use the Logan Bomb this game, and it IMMEDIATELY kills an Executioner and a Demolisher on my first turn. His decision to rush forward also puts his plague marines within charge range of my Cavalry was also like an early x-mas. The firepower of his psuedo-blob kills some multimeltas, but the real threats hang on. The rest of the game is a grind as I keep my scoring units out of LOS and my single grey hunter terminator (cyclon MM/fist), Arjac, and Logan collectively kill every guardsman on the table except for 7. Thunderwolves do what they've always done to marines, T5 FNP or not and end up on a fat objective final game turn. My rune priest barely matters this mission, but he does give the thunderwolves a 4+ invunl on his first turn.


I take second place because I couldn't grab enough secondaries game one, which is a fair payout and not bad for my first real tournament in a year.

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin

For the Tyranids, all the monstrous creatures had Iron Arm, would not fail psychic tests, and were T9 all the time. For the Guard, a fifth turn would have clenched victory, but time was called. For the Eldar, the high value objectives were on his side of the board. Also, I never got a useful warlord trait and went second every game.

A huge part of 6th is Allies. So much so that Tyranids and Dark Eldar are often considered the worst armies in the game because of it. At the 1850 level, you should really be considering Allies. Unless your tournament restricts Allies, in which case the rest of this post is useless...

Blood Angels can bring a Librarian with Shield of Sanguinius to your lines which can give a 5+ Cover Save to all of your tanks. And if you like Fliers, the Blood Angel Stormraven is one of the best ones. As well as a couple of Scoring-Plasma units with FNP.

Chaos Daemons can bring a pair of Tzeentch Flying Monstrous Creatures with Lascannons and super-Templates. But that's about it. And this really only works if you also bring Vendettas.

Dark Angels bring Deathwing. That's it. The real bonus is bringing Belial and making a Fearless Infantry blob.

Eldar and Space Wolves are there for the same purpose; Magic Hats that actually work.

Rune Priest; Living Lightning, Jaws / Divination* - 100 Points
Grey Hunters (x5); Flamer - 75 Points

*If you kit him out right, and at Deployment you find yourself facing Tyranids or Daemons, Biomancy is also an option. But, against Tyranids or Daemons, Living Lightning is pretty brutal and Jaws messes up Tervigons.

SW+IG, being Battle Bros, can also set up 'The Lightning Tower';
x2 Primaris Psykers - Lightning Arc
x2 Rune Priests - Living Lightning
Long Fangs [The number of Long Fangs and their weapons are irrelevant, give them nothing if you need to spare points, the only guy that matters is the Pack Leader].

...Point and shoot. If they have cover, great. If they don't, who cares, you're Bros4Lyf, jump in the closest Chimera and use the six Fire Points and just start unloading 6D6 Precision Shots at stuff. Be in cover.

Farseer; Runes of Warding, Guide / Divination* - 90 Points
Jetbikes (x6); x2 Shuriken Cannons - 152 Points

*Always roll Divination (that goes for all Eldar players reading this, too). Either you get something you actually want (3 or 4, #1 if you want to Battle-Bro the Farseer into a unit that can use it properly), or you can take the Primaris and get Guide anyway. The reason why we take Guide in the first place is because it's the cheapest power; If there were a cheaper power, we'd take that and still roll Divination anyway.

Then, from there you can go into Seer Council/Thunderwolf territory. But the minimum Eldar or SW shouldn't be too taxing (get it?) for Imperial Guard.

Orks bring Nob Bikers, but, more importantly, everything behind them gets a Cover Save - including vehicles. You should at least bring a Big Mek with KFF to give all your vehicles a Cover Save. Same as a Blood Angel, but doesn't need a Psychic Test and not Battle Bros.

Sisters and Marines bring the same thing. Pick your favourite.

Tau bring Broadsides, which are important for S10 shots.

[Renegade Paladin]

Allies can't get in each others' transport vehicles, not even battle brothers.

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin

Allies can't get in each others' transport vehicles, not even battle brothers.

Cheaters! *shakes fist*

Ah well, 4 Psykers and a Pack Leader is still kind of amazing. I've had it used against me before, and one of the Rune Priests also has Storm Caller, because the other one has Jaws.
And if you really have to, all four Psykers have access to Divination, which means ignoring Cover, re-rolling To Hit, entire unit has a 4+ Invulnerable, etc. As long as at least two of them have Lightning (preferably the Rune Priests, because theirs is S7), you're set to go.

Anyway, the rest of the advice is sound, no? Or are you just picking on my oversight / convinced that was the rule since it was used against me and I didn't think to check the rules 'cause it sounded right at the time?

[Renegade Paladin]

Guard psykers can't take Divination, either. Which sucks; of the disciplines it would be the single most useful for them.

My army builds slowly. I have plans to expand into a small Marine detachment for allies at some point, but it won't be immediately. My next move is to get another pair of Valkyries, finish my Vulture, and move into an airport list. Allies will come later for both budgetary and time reasons, so while your advice is sound I can't execute it right away.

The Tyranid list I fought was the one BoSheck had for his first match. It was a kill point mission. That list has twelve kill points in it, and is built to put big honkin' monstrous creatures all over the opponent's deployment zone on turn 2 with very little risk to the units getting there. Mine has seventeen, and is Guard without the benefit of credible assault units (though my company commander did kill what was left of one of the Gaunt broods in an assault). I had no idea what Mawlocs did because the only Tyranid players I've ever played against didn't use them, so I set up my battle tanks to shoot at them and then they disappeared and came up under the tanks. If I'd known that was going to happen I'd have set up my deployment very, very differently, but the mistake was made, and it won't be made again.

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin

Guard psykers can't take Divination, either. Which sucks; of the disciplines it would be the single most useful for them.

Point is, though. IG+SW put four, proper psykers on the table. And, after checking with the friend who uses it, the Guard psykers use Biomancy and the Rune Priests use Lightning or Div, whichever suits.

I had no idea what Mawlocs did because the only Tyranid players I've ever played against didn't use them, so I set up my battle tanks to shoot at them and then they disappeared and came up under the tanks.

Mawlocs are stupid-good that way. In a meta, or in a game where Allies aren't used and/or allowed, Tyranids can stomp all over anything that isn't full-Fliers (although they do only have one build, but it's really, really good).

[Renegade Paladin]

An idea for an allied detachment. This is borne out of the fact that I have Terminator models owing to the War Store apparently having just cut apart a whole bunch of Terminator kits for a single part or two when I ordered a random bits bag from them; I got enough parts to make a full squad, with assault cannons and heavy flamers for them pouring out of my ears. I don't have thunder hammers or storm shields, but might get them in the future; I'll magnetize the arms. I'm trying for optimal use of the Terminators rather than necessarily making an optimal allied detachment, though I'd like to make it fit as closely as possible.

Spoiler

Librarian - 140
-Terminator armor, storm shield

Terminator squad - 230
-Assault cannon

Scout squad - 90
-Combat blades
-Teleport homer

Land Speeder Storm - 50

This is working with Codex: Space Marines, but I'm flexible on which Marine codex to use if there's a better one for the purpose. I'm going to wait to act on this until we see if there's going to be a new Dark Angels codex soon, and how Deathwing will work in it if so. The only reason I'm not jumping straight at DA to avoid the troops tax is because I'd have to take Belial and not have a magic hat.

[Cheesegear]

Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin

This is working with Codex: Space Marines, but I'm flexible on which Marine codex to use if there's a better one for the purpose.

Dark Angels is better because the Terminators are Scoring. Nothing is better than that. Which means that you don't need to pay the Scout tax. The only thing you lose out on is the ability to Gate your Terminators across the field.

Although, Deathwing come down on the first turn, and there's no reason that you couldn't swap the Scout squad for a minimum-size Ravenwing Homer squad.

I'm going to wait to act on this until we see if there's going to be a new Dark Angels codex soon, and how Deathwing will work in it if so.

The only thing we can reasonably expect is the removal of Cyclone Launchers on Thunder Hammer models, and/or losing the ability to pick'n'mix Assault Terminators and Shootynators. Since you're not doing either of those things anyway, I really don't see why you shouldn't have an Assault Cannon squad that sits on your backline and Scores - or just Deathwing Assault onto some Bikers.

[Renegade Paladin]

Having Terminators sitting back and scoring would be a nice change of pace; it would free up all my Chimeras to roll forward. In my home metagame (as opposed to the one I played in last weekend) I see 'podding Dreadnoughts literally all the time (my most frequent opponent is a Blood Angels player who invariably drops in a Librarian Dreadnought with Blood Lance and Shield), and getting to pound back at it with powerfists when it assaults has a certain appeal.

[Cheesegear]

So, here's a format GW is thinking of running during the holidays to get New Kids into the game, as well as all the casual kids that rock up when school's out.

Build an army. Must include at least one Elite, Fast and Heavy choice in addition to being legal. 750 Points.

Librarian; Force Stave
Dreadnought; x2 Twin-Linked Autocannons
Tactical Squad (x10); Meltagun, Missile Launcher
Tactical Squad (x10); Meltagun, Missile Launcher
Land Speeder Typhoon
Predator; Heavy Bolters


Hey, maybe to revitalise the thread, everyone do it - since you're not doing anything else.