Zinc Saucier 9: The fires of Hell have nothing on me

mattie_p · 10-27-2012, 03:52 PM

Welcome one and all to the ninth Zinc Saucier challenge, where Playgrounders come to test their skill in the art of beautiful and bizarre (and bizarrely beautiful) builds.

The challenge? To come up with a build that has the same abilities and feel as the Secret Ingredient WITHOUT actually using it!

For the ninth challenge get ready to fire it up in the competition where the candle is burning from both ends, the Pyrokineticist!

Our challengers will have about 2 weeks to build a complete build from levels 1-20 using a 32 point buy and all official 3.5 material (excluding dragon magazine, but including any WOTC online enhancements) with the abilities and feel of a Pyrokineticist without actually using any levels in it.

Entries must be submitted by Saturday, 11:59pm GMT, 17 November, 2012.

Contestants will be judged and awarded a score out of 5 in each of 5 categories;

* Innovation (Uniqueness in character concept, race, class, etc)
* Power (How powerful and versatile it is compared to the base class)
* Elegance (What can only be described as how well the build "flows", i.e not using lots of 1-2lv dips, sacrificing flavour for power or using flaws)
* Fluff (How well the characters back-stories and classes mesh)
* Ingredient (How well the build captures the abilities and feel of the base class)

Presentation would be best in the style of how the iron chef does their presentations, however any style is allowed so long as it is clear on how the build was made.

Recommended style:

Spoiler

NAME OF ENTRY

Level	Class	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Skills	Feats	Class Features
1st	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
2nd	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
3rd	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
4th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
5th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
6th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
7th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
8th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
9th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
10th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
11th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
12th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
13th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
14th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
15th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
16th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
17th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
18th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
19th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities
20th	New Class Level	+x	+x	+x	+x	Skills	New Feats	New Class Abilities

Copy and Paste:

Spoiler

For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage). For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list, similar to this:

Spoiler

Please do not post details of your build on the board before it is ready, so as not to spoil the surprise for others.

Sauciers may submit as many builds as they want but please don't use leadership, as we dont want to overfeed the judges.

Entries should be submitted via private message to the chairman.

Previous challenges;

A few administrative notes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Chef Chairman

Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. This comes up often enough to bear mention in the rules: Dragon Compendium is allowed.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points. Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not.

This competition is inspired by the Playground Iron Chef Competitions and uses mostly identical rules.

Also it comes with double prize money.

Allez Sauciers!

BowStreetRunner · 10-28-2012, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattie_p

Entries must be submitted by Saturday, 11:59pm GMT, 29 September, 2012.

I believe this date is in the past...

mattie_p · 10-28-2012, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BowStreetRunner

I believe this date is in the past...

blarg, tired when I made the post and obviously missed that edit in the copy/paste. Thanks

motoko's ghost · 10-30-2012, 08:21 PM

I wont be able to submit any builds this time, but I should be able to judge

limejuicepowder · 10-30-2012, 08:39 PM

Also, the end of the 4th paragraph references Warblade when I think you meant Pyrokineticist.

ShneekeyTheLost · 10-30-2012, 08:46 PM

I will be interested to see if any of the contestants can find a way around the class's one crippling weakness... Immunity to Fire = Immunity to this class.

I've never seen a mechanically relevant build use more than four levels of this class. It'll be interesting to see what people come up with.

mattie_p · 10-30-2012, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by limejuicepowder

Also, the end of the 4th paragraph references Warblade when I think you meant Pyrokineticist.

Nice catch, and thanks.

On an unrelated note, I still mean to finish judging the last round, though no one has stepped up yet.

mattie_p · 11-08-2012, 05:04 PM

So bumpity bump, been dead in this thread. Anyone competing?

mattie_p · 11-10-2012, 05:09 PM

Yeah, so Pyrokineticest is apparently not going to happen. 3 Hours or so from submission deadline and there are no entries. Sorry, Zinc Saucier fans, but looks like this is going to perish.

Techwarrior · 11-10-2012, 05:44 PM

Dammit. I saw this and had an immediate idea.

You say three hours, but the deadline says tomorrow? Which is it?

Edit: ok, it says Saturday the 11th, I see my confusion. You said the deadline was today?

Jade Dragon · 11-10-2012, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost

I will be interested to see if any of the contestants can find a way around the class's one crippling weakness... Immunity to Fire = Immunity to this class.

I've never seen a mechanically relevant build use more than four levels of this class. It'll be interesting to see what people come up with.

Um... this is Zinc Saucier, not Iron Chef.

mattie_p · 11-10-2012, 06:01 PM

Yeah, my original post was all kinds of messed up. I'll extend the deadline to Saturday, 17 November, 2359 GMT. Hopefully we'll drum up some interest. If you have an entry, please submit. Thanks

Aegis013 · 11-10-2012, 06:45 PM

I'm going to participate. It's my first time! I have something in mind, already working it up.

Edit: Now how on earth do I make those tables...

mattie_p · 11-15-2012, 11:12 PM

So we had one entry a few days ago. Any more? You have a good chance of finishing in the top 3!

Aegis013 · 11-16-2012, 12:24 PM

Hopefully other contestants will join. I've never seen a Zinc Saucier competition go so unloved.

Techwarrior · 11-16-2012, 07:17 PM

I'm almost done with my entry, should be turned in later tonight

mattie_p · 11-16-2012, 07:24 PM

Glad to hear it. Any others? Got about 24 hours left.

ShneekeyTheLost · 11-16-2012, 07:35 PM

I had a couple of ideas, but nothing which panned out as an actual viable build. The main problem with the actual Pyromancer, FI = Immunity to Me, has only a very few ways to be solved, none of which would be very interesting to me.

mattie_p · 11-17-2012, 01:16 PM

Remember that you are not actually a pyromancer, just someone who is (hopefully) more useful while replicating the abilities.

Still some hours left. Let's get some action going.

ShneekeyTheLost · 11-17-2012, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattie_p

Remember that you are not actually a pyromancer, just someone who is (hopefully) more useful while replicating the abilities.

Still some hours left. Let's get some action going.

Right, but if you aren't using Fire damage, you're pretty much Doing It Wrong, and bypassing Fire Immunity is only possible through a very limited number of venues, none of which seemed interesting to me. The only builds I could come up with were either trite, low originality, or already known cheese.

mattie_p · 11-18-2012, 04:03 PM

Time for the reveal. I delayed almost a day past the official reveal, and I am glad I did so, as we have another competitor. Please stand by.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Snowcasting Pyromancer

Here is my submission for Zinc Saucier 9. It's my first time and I apologize if my formatting is incorrect or inconvenient in any way.

Race: Human (or Any, but push Snowcasting to 6th and Adaptive Style to 9th, and Versatile Spellcaster to 12th)

Level	Class	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Skills	Feats	Class Features
1st	Sorcerer	0	0	0	2	-	Snowcasting, Searing Spell	Summon Familiar
2nd	Sorcerer	1	0	0	3	-	-	-
3rd	Sorcerer	1	1	1	3	-	Energy Substitution Fire	-
4th	Sorcerer	2	1	1	4	-	-	-
5th	Swordsage	2	1	3	5	Arcana 8, Planes 4, history 2, religion 2	-	Quick to Act, Discipline Focus
6th	Elemental Savant	2	1	3	7	concentration 9	Adaptive Style	Elemental Speciality, Energy Resistance 5
7th	Jade Phoenix Mage	3	3	3	7	-	-	Arcane Wrath, Rite of Waking
8th	JPM	4	4	3	7	-	-	Mystic Phoenix Stance
9th	JPM	5	4	4	8	-	Versatile Spellcaster	-
10th	JPM	6	5	4	8	-	-	Empowering Strike
11th	JPM	9	5	4	8	-	-	-
12th	JPM	10	6	5	9	-	free	Firebird Stance, Jade Phoenix Master
13th	JPM	11	6	5	9	-	-	-
14th	JPM	12	7	5	9	-	-	Quickening Strike
15th	JPM	13	7	6	9	-	free	-
16th	JPM	14	8	6	9	-	-	Emerald Immolation
17th	Swordsage	15	9	7	9	-	-	AC Bonus
18th	Swordsage	16	9	7	10	-	Martial Stance: Rising Phoenix	-
19th	Sorcerer	16	9	7	10	-	-	-
20th	Swordsage	17	10	8	10	-	-	Discipline Focus

Spells of note (up to 7th level Sor/Wiz spells):
Energy Resistance (to emulate Fire Adaptation)
Flame Whips (to emulate Fire Lash)
Snowcasting Fire Substituted Searing Disintegrate (to emulate Heat Death)

Maneuvers of note(up to 9th level manuevers):
Distracting Ember (for special requirement of Elemental Savant)
Burning Blade (Hand aflame)
Fan the Flame (Bolt of Fire)
Searing Blade (Weapon Afire)
Inferno Blade (Greater Weapon Afire)
Inferno Blast (Conflagration, also Emerald Immolation)
Moment of Perfect Mind
Action Before Thought (both for Fire Adaptation, to be used versus Fire)

Stances of Note:
Rising Pheonix (Firewalk)

Class Features of Note:
Emerald Immolation (Conflagration, also Inferno Blast)

Command fire by using Snowcasting to make any damaging spell [cold] then use Energy Substitution Fire with Elemental Savant to make it [Fire] instead.

mattie_p · 11-18-2012, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ervan Karenth

The Story...

Spoiler

My name is Ervan Karenth. My tribe roams the desert, banished to the Prime Material for crimes against our ancestors. Our memory is long, but even we do not know what our forefathers did to receive this punishment. The tribe now seeks to perfect themselves, hoping to regain their place of honor. However, the blood of our forefathers has begun to run thin, granting us even less of an attachment to our homeplane. I decided different measures must be taken to regain our honor.

I was always different from my kin. I was fascinated by the desert, especially fire. I decided to find out why our forefathers were banished, so left the tribe in search of knowledge.

I apprenticed myself to an old wizard named Venn. He was a harsh master, and threatened to send me out on my own in the desert if I did not learn quickly enough for his tastes. I learned the art of magic under his tutelage, but I wanted more than that. I had left to learn why my tribe was banished. One day during my studies, I came across texts detailing an ancient library, even older than the tribes oldest memories, that was lost to the desert sands. I hoped to search through the library for mention of my people's past.

I joined a caravan that was going into the desert to look for this library. It was there that I met my next master, a Jade Phoenix Mage by the name of Jordan Alexei. While we were traveling to the library, I studied swordplay with him to pass the time. Little did I know he was teaching me the Sublime Way. Just before we arrived at the library, he revealed to me that both I and him were Jade Phoenix Mages, and he performed the Rite of Wakening for me.

The Rite opened my eyes to the world around me. Jordan had been trying to teach me, but I had been too worried about my own perfection to worry about his philosophical teachings.

The search for knowledge on my people was fruitless, but the library had many texts on the Sublime Way. However, when we tried to leave with the scripts, we learned that the library had a guardian. This guardian was the reason that the library was lost. The guardian did not allow people to leave with scripts. Jordan bargained with the guardian, exchanging his life for us to leave with the scripts. I was the only one who knew that his sacrficie was not the entirety of his life, just this one.

I used the martial scripts to master the Sublime Way, and take up the mantle of a Jade Phoenix Mage. I eventually mastered not only the arcane arts, but also all nine of the disciplines of the Sublime Way.

The Basics...

Spoiler

'

The Build...

Spoiler

LG

Level	Class	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Skills	Feats	Class Features
1st	Wizard (Conjurer) 1	+0	+0	[center]+0/center]	+2	Concentration 4, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Knowledge (History) 4, Spellcraft 4	Dodge, Improved Initiative (Bonus)	Abrupt Jaunt,
2nd	Wizard (Conjurer) 2	+1	+0	+0	+3	Concentration 1, Knowledge (Religion) 1, Knowledge (Arcana) 1, Knowledge (History) 1, Spellcraft 1
3rd	Wizard (Conjurer) 3	+1	+1	+1	+3	Concentration 1, Knowledge (Religion) 1, Knowledge (Arcana) 1, Knowledge (History) 1, Spellcraft 1	Blind-Fight
4th	Wizard (Conjurer) 4	+2	+1	+1	+4	Concentration 1, Knowledge (Religion) 1, Knowledge (Arcana) 1, Knowledge (History) 1, Spellcraft 1
5th	Unarmed Swordsage 1	+2	+1	+3	+6	Balance 5, Tumble 3, Concentration 1	Weapon Focus (Diamond Mind), Improved Unarmed Strike	Quick to Act +1
6th	Unarmed Swordsage 2	+3	+1	+4	+7	Balance 2, Tumble 6, Concentration 1	Adaptive Style	Armor Bonus
7th	Jade Phoenix Mage 1	+4	+3	+4	+7	Concentration 1, Tumble 1, Diplomacy 3		Arcane Wrath, Rite of Waking
8th	Jade Phoenix Mage 2	+5	+4	+4	+7	Concentration 1, Tumble 1, Diplomacy 3		Mystic Phoenix Stance
9th	Jade Phoenix Mage 3	+6	+4	+5	+8	Concentration 1, Tumble 1, Diplomacy 3	Fiery Blast
10th	Jade Phoenix Mage 4	+7	+5	+5	+8	Concentration 1, Tumble 1, Diplomacy 1, Martial Lore 2		Empowering Strike
11th	Jade Phoenix Mage 5	+8	+5	+5	+8	Concentration 1, Tumble 1, Diplomacy 1, Martial Lore 2
12th	Jade Phoenix Mage 6	+9	+6	+6	+9	Concentration 1, Tumble 1, Diplomacy 1, Martial Lore 2	Quicken Spell	Firebird Stance, Jade Phoenix Master
13th	Jade Phoenix Mage 7	+10	+6	+6	+9	Concentration 1, Tumble 1, Diplomacy 1, Martial Lore 2
14th	Jade Phoenix Mage 8	+11	+7	+6	+9	Concentration 1, Tumble 1, Diplomacy 1, Martial Lore 2		Quickening Strike
15th	Jade Phoenix Mage 9	+12	+7	+7	+10	Concentration 1, Tumble 1, Diplomacy 1, Martial Lore 2	Power Attack
16th	Jade Phoenix Mage 10	+13	+8	+7	+10	Concentration 1, Tumble 1, Diplomacy 1, Martial Lore 2		Emerald Immolation
17th	Master of Nine 1	+13	+8	+7	+12	Concentration 1, Tumble 1, Diplomacy 1, Sense Motive 6		New Class Abilities
18th	Master of Nine 2	+14	+8	+7	+13	Concentration 1, Tumble 1, Diplomacy 1, Sense Motive 6	Extra Readied Maneuver	Dual Stance
19th	Master of Nine 3	+15	+9	+8	+13	Concentration 1, Tumble 1, Diplomacy 1, Sense Motive 6		Perfect Form
20th	Master of Nine 4	+16	+9	+8	+14	Concentration 1, Tumble 1, Diplomacy 1, Sense Motive 5, Balance 1		Counter Stance

Arcana Energies...

Spoiler

Sublime Way...

Spoiler

Comparison to Pyrokineticist

Spoiler

Leveling...

Spoiler

Sources...

Spoiler

Two entries this time. If there are any volunteer judges out there, I'm sure our potential sauciers would love to see them. On your mark, get set, judge!

motoko's ghost · 11-18-2012, 06:19 PM

I'm judging this time, when should I have it done by?

mattie_p · 11-18-2012, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motoko's ghost

I'm judging this time, when should I have it done by?

1st of December, if you please.

ShneekeyTheLost · 11-18-2012, 07:22 PM

Yea, I'd figured. Searing Spell is one of the ways to bypass immunities, and swordsage with JPM is the obvious go-to for this sort of thing.

The other option would have been Hellfire Warlock, which is known cheese, but at least it fits the flavor and bypasses fire immunity.

mattie_p · 11-18-2012, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost

Yea, I'd figured. Searing Spell is one of the ways to bypass immunities, and swordsage with JPM is the obvious go-to for this sort of thing.

The other option would have been Hellfire Warlock, which is known cheese, but at least it fits the flavor and bypasses fire immunity.

Well, Shneeky, since you are all over this, perhaps you'd care to judge the two entries that actually got made?

ShneekeyTheLost · 11-18-2012, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattie_p

Well, Shneeky, since you are all over this, perhaps you'd care to judge the two entries that actually got made?

Considering the two builds are virtually identical, there's not much to judge. The second is a bit more flexible but lower caster level (due to Master of Nine levels), the former has a higher caster level, but somewhat less flexibility due to being Sorcerer based. Of course, given that the PrC being emulated is about as inflexible as they come, that's not necessarily a disadvantage in this case.

Snowcasting was a cute trick for throwing on an elemental flavor (which is conveniently converted to Fire by the glaringly obvious Elemental Savant dip) to spells like Disintegrate. I'll give it that. However, that seems to be the primary point of divergence.

mattie_p · 11-18-2012, 08:21 PM

I'll vouch that the two builds are submitted by different competitors. Should you choose to judge, feel free. If not, that's ok too, we'll find a way to scrape by.

mattie_p · 11-24-2012, 06:26 PM

Do we have any judges for this competition? You don't earn anything except for our undying appreciation.

motoko's ghost · 11-25-2012, 05:56 PM

I'm almost done judging