Actually, Gamaran is particularly horrible about the constant strength level fluctuations and power ups. It continually hypes people as being the strongest ever, only to do the very same with the next one introduced five minutes later.
I actually stopped reading Gamaran because of that, while I still enjoy Bleach somewhat despite its many flaws and shortcomings.
It reminds of Shaman King. It started as the story of a laid back boy who could talk to spirits. Then, it became a fighting series. Takei was so shaken and unsatisfied he needed to travel throughout the world so he could find himself again and write an actual ending. As he traveled the world, he knew a lot of people and made a lot of friends... including Stan Lee.
Man, that could be a manga by itself, couldn't it?
One man.
One journey.
A quest to find the ending of a story. A journey of friendship, ghosts, nature and ... Stan Lee *abrupt music stop*
"Come on man, you gotta get your act together!"
"But how?"
"I got just the stuff."
Join Hiroyuki as he searches the world, finding more than he was looking for.
"Shine, teme!"
"What did you just say to my friend here?"
Spoiler
Awkwardness.
"Give your pal Stan hug!"
"I wiru not hug yuu!"
Coffee.
"Hey, Joey, fill me up!"
Manliness.
"Ferrigno SMASH!"
More coffee.
Spoiler
And parody.
Friendship.
"Y'know, I got this great idea for a manga about magic robot puppets..."
IF THE SPIRIT IS STRONG, coming out December 3rd.
__________________
Strawberries is thanked for being an awesome avatarist.
A quest to find the ending of a story. A journey of friendship, ghosts, nature and ... Stan Lee *abrupt music stop*
"Come on man, you gotta get your act together!"
"But how?"
"I got just the stuff."
Join Hiroyuki as he searches the world, finding more than he was looking for.
"Shine, teme!"
"What did you just say to my friend here?"
Spoiler
Awkwardness.
"Give your pal Stan hug!"
"I wiru not hug yuu!"
Coffee.
"Hey, Joey, fill me up!"
Manliness.
"Ferrigno SMASH!"
More coffee.
Spoiler
And parody.
Friendship.
"Y'know, I got this great idea for a manga about magic robot puppets..."
IF THE SPIRIT IS STRONG, coming out December 3rd.
Morph, you deserve an internet.
That said, i thought Shaman King was pretty awesome and one of the better mangas to go around.
spoiler alert
Spoiler
One of the msot awesome parts was HoroHoro's powerup where he is reminded what his name means and when he connects with his old girlfriend. it gave me chills and the feel of burns at the same time. Best powerup I ever saw and actually well deserved instead of I need power *writer hands out power after tantrum is thrown*. But a real emotional breakthrough. it a powerup coming with some character growth and emotional exploration. it was in one word awesome.
Apart form that I thought the end was actually awesome. finally the power of heart used in a sensible way. the way Yoh doesn't win, but is there with the other elemental warriors to make Hao a decent king was ****ing awesome. Really. I like how Hana actually continues the prodigy, including a relationship with an Itako (?) from hell (both distant family of Anna and Silva, this is hot stuff)
__________________ "Where do promiscious fillies go?" - Awesome Tyrion Ponytar by Elemental
That said, i thought Shaman King was pretty awesome and one of the better mangas to go around.
spoiler alert
Spoiler
One of the msot awesome parts was HoroHoro's powerup where he is reminded what his name means and when he connects with his old girlfriend. it gave me chills and the feel of burns at the same time. Best powerup I ever saw and actually well deserved instead of I need power *writer hands out power after tantrum is thrown*. But a real emotional breakthrough. it a powerup coming with some character growth and emotional exploration. it was in one word awesome.
Apart form that I thought the end was actually awesome. finally the power of heart used in a sensible way. the way Yoh doesn't win, but is there with the other elemental warriors to make Hao a decent king was ****ing awesome. Really. I like how Hana actually continues the prodigy, including a relationship with an Itako (?) from hell (both distant family of Anna and Silva, this is hot stuff)
Looks like you only read the revised ending, after Takei leveled up due to walking the earth and training under Stan Lee.
Last edited by ThiagoMartell : 11-19-2012 at 08:07 AM.
Looks like you only read the revised ending, after Takei leveled up due to walking the earth and training under Stan Lee.
you mean the one when...
Spoiler
the fight gets suspended becuase the SoF eat the grand spirit and Yoh breaks the rules of the SF by attacking Hao? yeah I have seen that... one. it was mediocre at best.
No thank you, I like the end of the leveled up Takei
Still, I think Shaman King is the best (if not one of-) shonen manga out there: It's packed with action, follows some in universe laws without *ahem* violating them from behind *ahem*, has wel developed characters and some great story. (and the artwork isn't bad either )
__________________ "Where do promiscious fillies go?" - Awesome Tyrion Ponytar by Elemental
It reminds of Shaman King. It started as the story of a laid back boy who could talk to spirits. Then, it became a fighting series. Takei was so shaken and unsatisfied he needed to travel throughout the world so he could find himself again and write an actual ending. As he traveled the world, he knew a lot of people and made a lot of friends... including Stan Lee.
Man, that could be a manga by itself, couldn't it?
That's..exceedingly hilarious. Though I've read that the reason why he did that was because Shaman King got canceled right before the final battle.
He's a human who has turned into a Soul Reaper, hollow, Vizard, Fullbringer, and possibly a Quincy in the near future, his parents are a former Soul Reaper and a Quincy, achieved his bankai in less than a fraction of the time it normally takes and is treated by the Soul Society as some sort of messiah-like figure even though he's far less experienced than any of the captains, and has some of the best plot armor in manga.
In many respects Ichigo was set up/prepared to be like he is. By his father, Urahara and even Aizen to some extent. Just look at how he got his Bankai. It was something devised by Urahara. Even his Soul Reaper powers came with a big string attached in that he has to fight to keep his Inner Hollow under control. Also there have been a few cases where Ichigo has screwed up and made matters worse, no better. Not to mention he has gotten badly beaten on more than one occation and only survived throught he efforts of others.
He's a human who has turned into a Soul Reaper, hollow, Vizard, Fullbringer, and possibly a Quincy in the near future, his parents are a former Soul Reaper and a Quincy, achieved his bankai in less than a fraction of the time it normally takes and is treated by the Soul Society as some sort of messiah-like figure even though he's far less experienced than any of the captains, and has some of the best plot armor in manga.
Hmmm...Nope, not a Mary Sue yet.
fixed that for you
Not everyone can read sarcasm, by using blue you show that you care
__________________ "Where do promiscious fillies go?" - Awesome Tyrion Ponytar by Elemental
In many respects Ichigo was set up/prepared to be like he is. By his father, Urahara and even Aizen to some extent. Just look at how he got his Bankai. It was something devised by Urahara. Even his Soul Reaper powers came with a big string attached in that he has to fight to keep his Inner Hollow under control. Also there have been a few cases where Ichigo has screwed up and made matters worse, no better. Not to mention he has gotten badly beaten on more than one occation and only survived throught he efforts of others.
The Marty Sue thing gets complicated, because Ichigo has gradually transitioned into being one from being a typical shonen hero. Getting his bankai way too early through a mentor's machinations, for example, is classic action shonen.
But when was the last time Ichigo's Hollow went out of control? I believe it was during the Ulquorria fight, which was almost two hundred issues ago. At that point, Ichigo had only two power sets, and quite a few other people had those two power sets as well (all of the bad guys, and several of the good guys), and it was when the comic was still in the process of really going off the rails.
What I'm saying is, using old evidence to suggest that a new event hasn't happened isn't really useful. The Montreal Canadians have the most Stanley Cup wins in hockey, but they haven't won a Stanley Cup since 1993 so it's hard to argue that they're the best team in hockey.
__________________ Patchwork Magisters - Volume III is now available! You know, if you like that sort of thing.
As of this chapter, he's confirmed to have abilities from ALL of the canon "powers"; Shinigami, Hollow, Fullbringer, and Quincy. Further, his actions somehow are always in the right and anyone who has acted in a way contrary to him has been cast in a bad light.
So yes, he is very much not a Marty Stu. Just as Aizen wasn't a Villain Sue.
__________________
Credit to AlterForm for the awesome Iroh avatar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golentan
What Yuki said.
Also, infernals are the only cool solaroids, so, just sayin'.*
*You are entitled to disagree. But to do so is wrong.
As of this chapter, he's confirmed to have abilities from ALL of the canon "powers"; Shinigami, Hollow, Fullbringer, and Quincy. Further, his actions somehow are always in the right and anyone who has acted in a way contrary to him has been cast in a bad light.
He HAD Fullbring powers. Past tense as they got stolen from him. And frankly Fullbring is actually a subset of his Hollow abilities, not a seperate ability anyway. We have not seen the effect this had on his Hollow abilities yet. He SHOULD have Hollowfied when he tangled with Bach and didn't.
And something to consider.
Spoiler
If Ichigo's Soul Reaper (and Hollow?) abilities have been damaged? (a loss of power!) If he is going to beat Bach he needs more power than he has now and the only way to get it would be to use Quincy powers. A Mary Stu would have have power on top of power, not having to get new power to replace/reinforce old damaged ones. Correct?
As for always being moraly right. Belive it or not there ARE people in the world who try to do the right thing just because it's the right thing and for no other reason. I mean what does Ichigo's name mean? (other than Strawberry that is).
As for always being moraly right. Belive it or not there ARE people in the world who try to do the right thing just because it's the right thing and for no other reason. I mean what does Ichigo's name mean? (other than Strawberry that is).
The Issue lies in allways trying to do whats right vs allways being right...
__________________
thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
He HAD Fullbring powers. Past tense as they got stolen from him. And frankly Fullbring is actually a subset of his Hollow abilities, not a seperate ability anyway. We have not seen the effect this had on his Hollow abilities yet. He SHOULD have Hollowfied when he tangled with Bach and didn't.
And something to consider.
Spoiler
If Ichigo's Soul Reaper (and Hollow?) abilities have been damaged? (a loss of power!) If he is going to beat Bach he needs more power than he has now and the only way to get it would be to use Quincy powers. A Mary Stu would have have power on top of power, not having to get new power to replace/reinforce old damaged ones. Correct?
As for always being moraly right. Belive it or not there ARE people in the world who try to do the right thing just because it's the right thing and for no other reason. I mean what does Ichigo's name mean? (other than Strawberry that is).
it means 1 5
anyway, new chapter.
Spoiler
I guess I can say that the metaphorical biological nutritionally drained output has reached the metaphysical revolving blades.
Theory time! Ichigo's Bankai will be healed at the Spirit Kin'g's bachelor pad and it will require a hell of a lot of training. In the mean time Ichigo discovers that the spiritking is actually a Quincy and that hey need a quincy since they can actually destroy and create spiritmatter. The king will teach Ichigo to use his quincypowers and how to layer all his powers on top of each other creating an inpenetrable skin, unbeatable shunpo, and increase attack beyond infinity. meanwhile Ichigo will finally learn to control his reishi output and actually be able to use kidou (as a side effect) and thus be able to generate a moonsicle bade with the hardness of his sword instead of a blast of energy of which most allready dissipates. it will be shown that the Spiritking has the power of heart (hence the heavy gueards), but it appears to be the most powerful power since it awakens power in others.
this is the lamest I can do for now...
__________________ "Where do promiscious fillies go?" - Awesome Tyrion Ponytar by Elemental
Wow, that long guy seems to be a total jerk. But it fits, he looks and acts exactly like a stereotypical manga bully. And he was Unohana's teacher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socratov
this is the lamest I can do for now...
Spoiler
What abou this: the spirit king is so powerful that he pretty much doesn't need the Zero Squad. He only has them around all the time, because he is an important, strong leader, so he there have to be some strong direct underlings around him, right? Because that would make their absence from Soul Society during the invasion stupid and pointless.
If Ichigo's Soul Reaper (and Hollow?) abilities have been damaged? (a loss of power!) If he is going to beat Bach he needs more power than he has now and the only way to get it would be to use Quincy powers. A Mary Stu would have have power on top of power, not having to get new power to replace/reinforce old damaged ones. Correct?
As for always being moraly right. Belive it or not there ARE people in the world who try to do the right thing just because it's the right thing and for no other reason. I mean what does Ichigo's name mean? (other than Strawberry that is).
Incorrect on both counts.
A Mary Sue is defined mainly by two primary traits:
1) Lacking noteworthy flaws, or possessing them in such a way that their flaws never actually cause problems. For example: A "flaw" that causes a character to always run into trouble doesn't count as an actual flaw if running into trouble always results in success. Note how Ichigo's flaws have gradually vanished over the course of the story.
2) Sucking in a narrative such that everyone else's storylines increasingly become about that one character, especially if it requires massive changes to their personalities to fit that one character in.
There are a number of warning signs for Mary Sues, which are not technically requirements and can be had by characters who are actually fine. Among them are the ability to tell whether someone is redeemable based on whether they like the character, the ability to trivially overcome situations that are explicitly stated to have been impossible for everyone else before them, possessing extraordinarily unlikely traits that are designed to set the character above everyone around them, and being one-dimensional wish-fulfillment archetypes rather than fleshed-out people.
Ichigo fulfills all of these. His ability to just have everyone's powers isn't a problem because of how much stronger it makes him, it's a problem because it means that storylines that should be about those people become about Ichigo. Characters who should be interacting with each other only worry about Ichigo. When unique abilities are used against everyone and work against everyone, Ichigo can break through them. Everyone loves him, even the captains who've barely interacted with him and enemies who Kubo thinks are cool. Every event in the series is engineered specifically for Ichigo and no one else.
And yeah, having a character who always tries to be moral is fine. Having a character whose decisions are infallibly correct is a warning sign.
__________________ Patchwork Magisters - Volume III is now available! You know, if you like that sort of thing.
That guy made me think he looked like a friendlier (younger?) version of Genryuusai. It's the round-shaped beard and 'stache in place of the pointiness, I suppose. He made me think of Gouken from Street Fighter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaZodiac
Can someone give me a picture of Kirio so I can remember who she's supposed to be? Since I really don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscipleofBob
I don't know if there she showed up in the manga before, but according to the wiki, she was the 12th Division Captain before Kisuke Urahara took over.
She was indeed. She wasn't shown at the time she was mentioned though. This marks her first appearance in the manga.
Though from what the other woman is saying, it sounds like she used to be the captain of the 12th Division as well...
__________________
Strawberries is thanked for being an awesome avatarist.
Though from what the other woman is saying, it sounds like she used to be the captain of the 12th Division as well...
I'm more inclined to think that she was the head of her own "science" division ala Urahara/Mayuri.
We don't know how long ago it was but I'm inclined to think Mayuri was once part of it, but when she went to Div 0, the whole "science" division was reverted back to a regular division. Mayuri was sent to "jail" and powers were stripped. Until Urahara became captain and reinstated the "science" division and got Mayuri out of confinement.
It would explain how the Div 0 captain knows Mayuri, and what she says to him. Could also explain why he looked altered in the Back to the Pendulum arc before he was released.
A Mary Sue is defined mainly by two primary traits:
1) Lacking noteworthy flaws, or possessing them in such a way that their flaws never actually cause problems. For example: A "flaw" that causes a character to always run into trouble doesn't count as an actual flaw if running into trouble always results in success. Note how Ichigo's flaws have gradually vanished over the course of the story.
And yeah, having a character who always tries to be moral is fine. Having a character whose decisions are infallibly correct is a warning sign.
Are you REALLY going to try to tell me that Ichigo trusting Ginjo was NOT a huge mistake? And that the only reason he survived was because his father and the SS saved him?
I think the problem is that people WANT to see Ichigo as a Mary Stu.
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