Fluff that doesn't make sense

[Quietus]

Perhaps. I'm just curious as to what kinds of roles you normally use for your gnomes.

I guess a lot of my thing is that I'm a feat/skillmonkey, I love me my humans.

[HealthKit]

Friends don't let friends play gnomes.

[Diggorian]

Friends don't let friends play gnomes.

HA! I respect the rights of gnomophiles, play what you like.

To me, if halflings are personifications of elves saying, "We're so cool we have little cousins that use our Dex bonus to be the rogues so we dont have to."

Gnomes are dwarves saying, "Us too!!! And ours are jewelers ... with illusion powers! ... and comically big noses ... that can talk to badgers!!!"

[Roderick_BR]

Gnomes had a social stigma among my old gaming group because of a particular player we had years ago. Only recently we start using them again.

[Roderick_BR]

HA! I respect the rights of gnomophiles, play what you like.

To me, if halflings are personifications of elves saying, "We're so cool we have little cousins that use our Dex bonus to be the rogues so we dont have to."

Gnomes are dwarves saying, "Us too!!! And ours are jewelers ... with illusion powers! ... and comically big noses ... that can talk to badgers!!!"

Lol!
You could also say that they are the dwarve's cousins that can use arcane magic, so dwarves don't have to =P

[Kantolin]

Gnomes make extremely capable spellcasters of any sort. Moreso than any other core race, if you ask me.

+2 Con is nice for a caster, -2 strength you utterly don't care about. +1 on any illusions you happen to cast. +1 AC for being small. Lower movement, who cares? No penalty to a mental stat. +con is nice for a druid, and no penalties to mental stats.

So.. so hey. Gnomes are awesome.

Plus you can freely stir your coffee. ^_^

Edit: And they've got the size +1 to hit for your rays, and are themselves coincidentally resistant to some illusions.

[MrNexx]

I think the gnomish fluff utterly and completely contradicts the crunch their given.

[Woot Spitum]

You would think with their extreme passion for science and invention, gnomes would get a bonus to intelligence. Instead, they get a bonus to constitution. The logic behind this is pretty weird.

[MrNexx]

Point by Point on gnomes:
http://rpg-crank.livejournal.com/534.html

Rationale for changes:
http://rpg-crank.livejournal.com/868.html

Gnomes, Full Revision
http://rpg-crank.livejournal.com/2816.html

[Telonius]

That... that is the best idea ever. Well, even moreso than legendary bakers.

I shall now make a D&D prestige class for units who use the legendary copying the bible style of martial arts.

Since Western monks deserve some ki-based butt-kicking power too!

There's an Irish priest in my hometown who would kick your butt for that.

[Tola]

Since Western monks deserve some ki-based butt-kicking power too!

You're after Cleric, if you play it with lighter armours only. Unless there's a less martial version...

Western Monk is almost the archtypical 'Holy Man/Priest': deeply devout, and rewarded for it with powers to heal and protect.

[SpiderBrigade]

...I really don't see why it's so hard to believe that the ideas the arose in the East of our world and led to the deveolpment of Shaolin Monks and those like them could have arisen in the same part of a fantasy world as the traditions of necromancy and druidism...

I think for most people it's the fact that the D&D world (or at least, most of the default settings) are mostly presented as Tolkien-like, "europe and it's environs" settings. And then suddenly there's these monks who are (some may argue, but I stand firm on this) embedded with kung-fu asian flavor - and they don't do a good job at all of explaining where they come from.

Compare that to, say, the martial adepts from Tome of Battle, a book which many feel has a strong wuxia-type flavor: there's a serious effort to spell out who developed these techniques, and why.

[Scorpina]

Well, I haven't read Tome of Battle, but from my understanding of it it's a much more specific book than the PHB is. If they go into too much detail about the Monks background it would go against the whole genericness that they're going for.

[SpiderBrigade]

yeah, that's a fair point. Actually the more I think about it, a lot of the "WTF, where are these monks coming from" reaction is due to the 2e -> 3e change.

[Scorpina]

...and yet doesn't seem to affect the Barbarian or the Sorcerer...

[SpiderBrigade]

Right, because they fit in a lot more with the "default" setting. The monk is a little different, as noted.

Look, I'm not saying momks don't make sense. I'm just saying, I can see where people might think it doesn't quite fit.

Edit: Yes, what Matthew says.

[Matthew]

They are a relatively unfamiliar concept for an Occidental Pseudo Medieval setting.

[Ninja Chocobo]

You're after Cleric, if you play it with lighter armours only. Unless there's a less martial version...

Cloistered Cleric, yo!

[Kantolin]

You're after Cleric, if you play it with lighter armours only. Unless there's a less martial version...

Western Monk is almost the archtypical 'Holy Man/Priest': deeply devout, and rewarded for it with powers to heal and protect.

I'm aiming more for the I-sit-in-a-monastary-and-transcribe-the-bible monk, not a priest. Priests aren't what most people mean when they say 'monk' in a western context.

[Hallavast]

So you guys think western monks weren't bad ass melee monsters? I dunno... I've seen Friar Tuck do some crazy stuff with that holy whupass stick of his...

[Cybren]

monks and friars were lay people with no church affiliation.

[Hallavast]

monks and friars were lay people with no church affiliation.

care to back that one up with some sort of reference?

[JaronK]

I'm aiming more for the I-sit-in-a-monastary-and-transcribe-the-bible monk, not a priest. Priests aren't what most people mean when they say 'monk' in a western context.

Archivist and Cloistered Cleric both fit that description rather well. Archivist especially hits the transcribing part...

JaronK

[Attilargh]

Halflings make good Rogues because of their high dex and small stature, along with their happy-go-lucky attitude and mild racial kleptomania,

By the quick look I took at Races of the Wild, halflings are not kleptomanic. Instead, their whole culture appears to be based on thieving. Unlike Kenders who just don't understand the concept, halflings understand and deliberately do not pay any heed to it.

And yet the race still exists. Mind-boggling.

[JellyPooga]

By the quick look I took at Races of the Wild, halflings are not kleptomanic. Instead, their whole culture appears to be based on thieving. Unlike Kenders who just don't understand the concept, halflings understand and deliberately do not pay any heed to it.

And yet the race still exists. Mind-boggling.

Whilst true that they have a culture based on petty thievery, they are nevertheless, essentially a 'Good' race (much as Goblins are an 'Evil' race). This means that they only steal what they need and/or what won't be particularly missed.

If people start getting angry about it, they simply return the stolen goods with an apology.

If people are still angry after that, they leave.

If people get angry enough to attack them, other halflings get angry too and before long the people that attacked the original halflings have no possessions to speak of (because they've all been stolen by angry halflings) and are possibly dead (it's hard to fight back against someone killing you in your sleep...they are only essentially good after all).

Basically, Halfings only go where they know they're welcome and bring good trading opportunities with them. Those places that they go expect a few things to go missing when Halflings are in town, but don't hold it against them because what would be the point? It's only a few small things. Halflings just don't go to places where their petty thievery causes offence.

That's how (along with not having many permanent settlements) Halflings, as a race, survive (according to RotW).

[Attilargh]

And it still doesn't make any sense to me.

[Telonius]

monks and friars were lay people with no church affiliation.

Not true. Dominicans, Franciscans, and all the rest were members of religious communities that were sponsored and approved by the Roman Catholic Church. (Link to the Catholic Encyclopedia article here.) The difference between friars and monks was that monks were supposed to live in seclusion and contemplation, but friars were part of the "mendicant orders" - that is, they were supposed to go out and actually work within the lay community. Both monks and friars did (and do) take holy vows, in much the same manner as priests and deacons. At least some friars become full priests, and can say all of the sacraments that priests normally can. (I'm not certain whether or not this is true of all friars, but there was a Franciscan at my Catholic high school who said Mass).

[JadedDM]

I've always kind of wondered why elves have infravision. With the exception of Drow, they are not a subterranean race.

[MrNexx]

Well, in 2nd edition, infravision was the form of seeing in the dark that was around. In 3rd edition, they gave them low-light vision, which is just seeing in less light.

[JadedDM]

Yeah, I know. But why could elves see in the dark? Goblins and dwarves make sense, because they live underground and thus do not get much sun. Elves (except Drow) live out on the surface, dancing in the sunlight and playing in the glens.