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2016-07-07, 08:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
I usually require some kind of backstory for characters as a GM, but it can be anything from a couple of sentences ("Regdar grew up as a terraforming engineer on a backwater colony world. Now he wanders the cosmos, selling his services as a technician to anyone who needs his skillset.") to a couple of paragraphs maximum. I like when a player's backstory grows organically over the game.
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2016-07-07, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
It's true, I tend to answer questions with a certain sense of finality. And not just because my Legions of Terror mercilessly slaughter anyone who second-guesses or challenges me. They're such pleasers like that. It's adorable.
And burning orphanages, Fri? Really? How gauche.
It's Thursday. Monday night was days ago. Check your calendar next time. It's right there on the Meetup. "Monday Night Orphan Roast." Honestly.My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.
My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!
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2016-07-07, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
Under these wonderfully fair rules, how does one play a low-level nobleman, someone with an ancestral weapon, etc?
I find a rock to be an adequate prop for role-playing: is the character's first thought to sit on it and rest? Climb it for the view? use it for shade? Poke it with a stick? Collect a sample? Check around the other side? Imagine sculpting a statute? Modify it for their purposes (whatever those happen to be)? Attempt to disbelieve? Etc etc.
So, even though this probably should be obvious, please step me through this: how do you define role-playing such that this particular setup provides better RP opportunity?
You don't like the implementations you have observed - fair enough. Do you believe that all attempts by systems to bake flavor into the rules / mechanics are inherently doomed to failure, or do you believe that some mechanics can positively impact mood?
That's not an attack, that's just stating the facts. It's only an attack if you have to roll to hit.
Yeah, unless someone with way too much time on their hands produces statistics to the contrary, I'm gonna assume human nature doesn't change significantly with age, particularly when measuring a specific sample set with similar interests.
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2016-07-07, 04:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
- Location
- The Frozen North
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Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
Well everybody can roleplay how they like but my group might find a scenario where they poke a rock with a stick rather dull. The player whose character is a merchant son might find it more to his satisfaction to explore his role in a conflict with his father.
In the context of the subject which is backgrounds, then that rock had to be pretty important to a PC´s life that he/she would want to return to it to poke it with a stick.
So as to answer the question about how this particular setup provides a better RP opportunity is quite simple: It is more interesting to the player. Else I'd have to place a darn interesting rock in the PC's path.
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2016-07-07, 05:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2016
- Location
- The Lakes
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
I wasn't talking about baking flavor or mood into the rules -- there's some validity to that and I've seen it work.
My comment was directed at systems that try to bake character decisions and "narrative flow" into the mechanics, with things like strange dice, and having a silver lining for every failure and a catch for every success.Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2016-07-07 at 05:41 PM.
It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.
Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.
The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.
The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.
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2016-07-07, 06:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
- Gender
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
It depends on the system. In a system where those things are purchasable with character build points or whatever, you can have whatever it is the rules give you. In D&D, you don't. You can say that one of your weapons is ancestral or that you are a minor noble, but there is no mechanical representation of those things. For whatever reason, your minor noble family is broke or you have no access to their wealth (beyond what the rules say you start with). Your ancestral weapon is just a mundane weapon that has sentimental value to you. Anything you give away to one character, you need to allow an equivalent for all the others. There needs to be a ceiling on the resources players get at the start in accordance with the tone and type of challenge you intend them to face. Setting a precedent that allows background fiction to give mechanical benefits outside of the rules could be a mistake for certain groups, there could be resistance to denying them the same benefits in future games that you would like to be lower powered. And certain types of players will constantly push the limits of generosity when there is no rule-based limit on what their background can give them. Just things to consider.
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2016-07-07, 07:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
- Location
- Australia
- Gender
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
Spoiler: Old Avatar by Aruiushttp://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q56/Zeritho/Koboldbard.png
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2016-07-07, 07:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
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2016-07-07, 08:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2016
- Location
- The Lakes
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
This isn't degrees, it's "you fail, but..." and "you succeed, but..." -- so that there's very often a complication or mitigation attached to the success or failure.
There are a bunch of different "good" and "bad" dice, in degrees, that you have to build up a pool of based on all sorts of factors, and then roll, and then remember what symbols counter what other symbols in what order, and then once you get through all that you still have to figure out what the dice "mean", and each "turn" represents a very long time, and the GM and players kinda have to cooperate to describe what the dice mean and how that minute or so of encounter that each set of rolls represents actually "narrates".Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2016-07-07 at 08:47 PM.
It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.
Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.
The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.
The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.
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2016-07-07, 09:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
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2016-07-07, 09:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2016
- Location
- The Lakes
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.
Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.
The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.
The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.
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2016-07-07, 10:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Gender
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
They are fun little things that allow you to add a bit to the world. Some are big, some are small, some are important, and some are not. And for me when a GM includes them and you both form a sort of partnership in building a story its one of the best experiences and one the few ,concrete, advantages Table Top RPG's have over other forms.
EDIT: By concrete I mean stuff that is provable and not to a taste kind of thing Generally TTRPG's tend to be better on the story and narrative front while CRPGs are better on the Mechanics front.Last edited by Kite474; 2016-07-07 at 10:15 PM.
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2016-07-08, 02:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2016
- Gender
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2016-07-08, 02:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
- Gender
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
God damn amnesia characters, hard to write well into a story without sounding cliche.
And then the orc showed up....
My character - "who are you?" .... "i dont know..."
"where did you come from?" .... "i dont know..."
"how old are you?" ... "i dont know..."
"family? friends? faith? anything?" ... "i dont know...."
"want to join us for no reason whatsoever to go while we go find a wizard to see a man about a dog?"
"........ sure."
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2016-07-08, 03:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
- Location
- The Frozen North
- Gender
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2016-07-08, 03:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
I've often tried writing up a background for my characters never seen any of them come into use mind you!
The Cleric of Helm raised by his divorced mother in the family faith who chose to seek out his father and ended up a rival with his half brother over his girlfriend, only for his father to arrange with his supposed superior to have him reassigned which is how he ended up joining the party for their first trip up North.
Shortest write up I ever did was describe a Paladin by naming her Bridget D'Summerville a blatant Buffy the Vampire Slayer rip off!
Over a decade ago I tried to run a game as part of a 24 hour event alongside a five side football tournament which was supposed to be a regular adventure but turned into a bar room brawl after the players started reading each others character sheets and using that as an excuse to start fighting!
It takes all sorts but it really isn't that important if your gm is running a canned adventure!
Depending on the gm it might actually be a deterrent if they decide to cherry pick your background for their own use!Last edited by Hopeless; 2016-07-08 at 07:53 AM.
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2016-07-08, 05:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
Backstory (having a picture of the character) is fine, a back story (writing, and expecting other players and the gm to read, some short novella) is often pointless, bordering on rude. If someone handed me four pages of story about their characters life, I'd hand it back to them. I don't have that kinda time.
My view on RPGs is that only things that happen in game are real. Everything else exists in a quantum state where it could change at a moments notice. Which isn't to say there's not going to be discussion between GM and player about the characters origins/relationships/etc. I don't want to have to hunt through a short story to find out the character has a sister, I'd prefer that to come up in play.
In conclusion, I really like this article and if you don't you're a wallaby http://lookrobot.co.uk/2013/06/29/my...gs-big-echoes/
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2016-07-08, 07:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- Location
- In the playground
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
I like it, but I think because of the quote below... I'd run a selective amnesia character. As in they don't remember a lot, but they remember that they don't like being involved in plots that I don't want them to be in or to be things I wouldn't like.
There is no emotion more useless in life than hate.
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2016-07-08, 07:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- 41°6'53N, 73°24'21W
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
I've contemplated a pseudo-amnesia character being one who was returned to life but doesn't know who brought him back or why; might be interesting if said character was revived decades or even centuries after death, I suppose.
3e │ 5e : Quintessa's Dweomerdrain (Drain power from a magic item to fuel your spells)
3e │ 5e : Quintessa's Dweomershield (Protect target from the full effects of a magic item)
3e │ 5e : Hordling Generator (Edit "cr=" in the address bar to adjust the Challenge Rating)
3e │ 5e : Battle Sorcerer Tables (For Unearthed Arcana)
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2016-07-08, 08:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
- Location
- San Antonio.
- Gender
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
Why backstory? Because it's one of the best tools for determining how my character's actions would come down, and how they would differ from my own.
Hmm, I'll use a few of my recent PF character ideas. In a recent aborted game, I was playing a Dhampir named Thaddeus. Now, one of the interesting things about dhampir is that they almost demand backstory. Other half-breeds can be run-of-the-mill, but if you're a dhampir, how you came to be is usually a big question. Is your mother still alive? Do you know who your father is? Do you hate vampires, or want to become more like them? Hell, a mundane backstory is even weird if you're a dhampir.
Anyway, our group was in a position to learn of a plot by the local church to assassinate the king. Out of character, plot bells were going off in my head. In character, Thaddeus wasn't local, but he's the son of a lord in a nearby vampire-ruled kingdom. He came to this land to learn how to better fit in, in addition to the standard 'find fame/fortune' reasons someone goes adventuring. He figures that, if he saves the king, he gets leverage, right? Improve relations between the local kingdom and his homeland, gain political clout, and make daddy 'proud'. At least enough to elevate him to full vampire. Amongst the rest of the group, if I were to have to convince them, knowledge of their backstory would have helped. One guy was playing basically a samurai; if he was reluctant, I would say something along the lines of 'but doesn't your honor demand you save this rightful king?'
Personally, I like Thaddeus the foreign noble eager to prove his worth, rather than Thaddeus the warlord that hits things and wants to make money without offending his player.
Let's use another character of mine, cold open this time. Wreave is in a border-town with his party. While perusing the marketplace, they overhear a blind woman getting 'harassed' (more like she was being politely detained) by soldiers. Now, a rational question might be to ask what was going on. Wreave walks up, hand on the hilt of one of his many weapons, and none-too-kindly asks the soldiers to step off. "Give me an excuse."
The reason Wreave was cruising for a fight with professional soldiers was not because I wanted a fight, but because Wreave was, in his backstory, wronged by the country the soldiers in question worked for. Their actions against his family, in his mind, justified his his stance of 'looking for excuses to spill their blood'. I'm not saying developing a characters backstory during play is a bad idea, far from it. But, I'm going to need something to work from.Last edited by Ninjaxenomorph; 2016-07-08 at 08:43 AM.
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2016-07-08, 08:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
What are your thoughts on Apocalypse World (and AW-based games)? The player declares an action, the GM decides if the action is possible for the character and helps the player figure out which move to use. The player rolls 2d6 and add the appropriate stat. A 6 or lower is a failure and means the GM is going to make bad consequences. A 7-9 is a partial success - the player succeeds, but either has to pay a cost, make a decision, or the GM adds some sort of complication to that or a future scenario. A 10+ is a total success with no drawbacks.
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2016-07-08, 09:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
I still don't know how to write a backstory, or a personality, or a character sheet that deals with roleplay. Especially when I've thrown away every inch of "what would my character do" in favor of "what should be done as not to disrupt other people's gameplay".
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2016-07-08, 09:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
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2016-07-08, 10:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
As I said before there are at least 2 philosophies on what the question "Who are you?" entails. Both are viable and valid. Having a personal preference as a DM and requesting your Players answer the question as you mean it is perfectly acceptable and normal. Just as you being more impressed with the description(to use your language) is acceptable, so to another DM's being more impressed with the history(again, to use your language) is acceptable.
I have suggested that you personally filter for like minded groups when looking for a group since your preference is so strong. Asking the DM "Who are you?" should give you a good idea (except possibly if they are Babylon 5 fans ).Last edited by OldTrees1; 2016-07-08 at 10:30 AM.
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2016-07-08, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
See this? This is confrontational, and it's unnecessary.
Your opening post had two questions: What is backstory, and why is it necessary? It had an undertone of "I don't think backstory is necessary," but it at least pretended to be interested in a response.
But a post like this? You betray yourself, sir. This kind of post - and it's not the first of its kind by you, in this thread or others - makes it clear that your position is "I don't think backstory is necessary, and further if you disagree you are wrong." You are insulting the people who disagree with you, and it's uncalled for.
I get it. You don't like backstory. You care more about how a character is played then the player's ability to write a background. I understand that, and to a certain extent I agree. But your attitude towards those who disagree is callous and dismissive, and you can do better than that.
If you want to post an "I don't think backstory is necessary" rant, go ahead and do that. But don't couch it in the form of a disingenuous question and then fire back at those who respond in good faith. That's just not cricket.My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.
My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!
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2016-07-08, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Location
- San Francisco Bay area
- Gender
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
@Red Fel,
Your right. I'm sorry. I feel bad.
Edit:
I was trying to (and eventually failed) to get a "seat" at a PbP game. I was deeply frustrated. I am not a good enough writer.
Probably for the best that I was rejected.
Thanks for your wisdom and honesty.
Please feel free to PM about any posts of mine that seem more cruel than funny, so that I may delete or edit them. My hope is to make people laugh not to grind their teeth
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@Red Fel, RED FEL RED FEL RED FEL
I've actually re-reconsidered my deleted post.
I don't remember writing that it's bad to write a back story. What I object to is the requirement to write ever longer ones to get to play at all (yes I realize "their game, their rules".
Since you are a very effective post writter (I'm being sincere) please enlighten me further.
-ThanksLast edited by 2D8HP; 2016-07-10 at 07:11 PM.
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2016-07-08, 01:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2016
- Location
- The Lakes
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.
Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.
The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.
The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.
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2016-07-08, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
- Protecting my Horde (yes, I mean that kind)
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
If I get a multipage backstory from a player it goes through the proverbial shredder as I promptly ignore it, and I tell the player if they want to give me something, I have to be able to read and understand the whole thing in less than two minutes.
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2016-07-08, 01:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
- Gender
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
Last edited by QuickLyRaiNbow; 2016-07-08 at 01:29 PM.
In-character problems require in-character solutions. Out-of-character problems require out-of-character solutions.
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2016-07-08, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
Re: PC "Back story", why is that a thing?
Do you have your legions do cheer-offs against Lord Hater's watchdogs? Because I can totally see you trying to hire Peepers away from him.
Personally, I prefer legions of mindless undead, but there ARE advantages to loyal minions with capacity for initiative.
Also, are you in need of a...disposal service...for the bones from those Monday night roasts?