Reading Heir to the Empire

[DataNinja]

I swear to god, is this a meme?!

No. Just Peelee. Who has been doing it for ages.

[russdm]

Reminds me about Sean Astin's comment in a section of the first LotR movie bonus features where he says "No E", about somebody who is named Foot who works on Sean's Foots, no E.

[Peelee]

The weird thing is, I get called Pelee or even Pele all the time (I'd love to be great at soccer. Or rich. Alas). Never mind it, rarely correct it. But "Wookie" gets me for some reason. Gotta make it known there's that second E.

[DataNinja]

The weird thing is, I get called Pelee or even Pele all the time (I'd love to be great at soccer. Or rich. Alas). Never mind it, rarely correct it. But "Wookie" gets me for some reason. Gotta make it known there's that second E.

Huh. I know I was going to make a joke earlier about you being so focussed on double 'e's because of your name being mostly formed from them. So, interesting to know. Do you know what it might be about Wookee that causes that? And is it only the 'e's?

[Peelee]

Huh. I know I was going to make a joke earlier about you being so focussed on double 'e's because of your name being mostly formed from them. So, interesting to know. Do you know what it might be about Wookee that causes that?

Wookiee. One I.

And I dunno. Maybe just that it's the most misspelled word in the Star Wars universe? That's just a guess, dunno if it's even accurate.

[DataNinja]

Wookiee. One I.

And I dunno. Maybe just that it's the most misspelled word in the Star Wars universe? That's just a guess, dunno if it's even accurate.

I'm sure there are words that are misspelled more, but Wookkiee is probably the one that's most commonly used. All the others likely only come up in fairly specific contexts.

[Peelee]

Wookkiee

Wheeeeeee!

[Nerd-o-rama]

Huh. I know I was going to make a joke earlier about you being so focussed on double 'e's because of your name being mostly formed from them. So, interesting to know. Do you know what it might be about Wookee that causes that? And is it only the 'e's?

I was too, and I can't believe I missed two different shots at it.

Anyway, yeah, the Empire subcontracts to bounty hunters because they're more efficient at creating a dragnet over a wide area with their faster ships and specialization in tracking single organisms. Also because Han and Leia already had to put up with this crap in the movies and now it's Luke's turn.

Also because Thrawn's personal hunter-killers are off doing something else.

[Peelee]

And this is why I triplee cheeckeed my speelling of 'Wookieepedia' wheen I brought it up eearlieer. Beecausee this happeens at leeast oncee in eeveery Star Wars threead.
Okay, I'm pretty sure I'm safe on the double 'E' front.

Bytheway, I am not a smart man. I only now realized what you did here.

But you missed the double E in "-pedia."

[The Glyphstone]

Wheeeeeee!

Wwooookkiieeeeppeeddiiaa?

[Dienekes]

Wwooookkiieeeeppeeddiiaa?

You gotta spell it right, or risk the wrath of Peeeeleeee.

[Peelee]

Wwooookkiieeeeppeeddiiaa?

Ahh, I see you speak Shyriiwook!

[pendell]

Does anyone know how to set up this posting machine to recognize Aurebesh? If we're going to get this picky about spelling, then we should do this right; the actual word, in the actual language. The common language of the GFFA isn't English, remember; it's Basic. It has its own alphabet.

Tongue-in-cheek,

Brian P.

[DataNinja]

But you missed the double E in "-pedia."

Nope. I did not miss it. I deliberately made sure to spell that particular word correctly.

(As an aside tangent, I was very disappointed there's no official translation of 'Wookiee' into Shyriiwook, since I was just planning to constantly use that. Alas... apparently it's hard to phonetically transcribe into English.)

[Sapphire Guard]

To be fair here, did you ever see Castaway? With the scene where Tom Hanks tries to figure out how off-course his plane was, does some math, and figures out the search area is half the size of Texas?

Poor Texas. It's always used to measure other things.

And Space may be big, but Thrawn is also confident that they will find Skywalker, so it cannot be so big that a search is pointless. You can't really say it's a waste of resources either, since he's already brought his flagship into play solely to ambush him.

Considering how critical Interdictors are to the war effort, how stretched Imperial shipyards are at this point of the war, and how relatively vulnerable they are , I can't imagine a situation where an Interdictor would be deployed un-escorted. If I were an Imperial Admiral and had to choose, I would sacrifice an ISD, maybe two, if it meant saving an Interdictor.

Unescorted, certainly not, but escorted only by the flagship of your fleet? I'm not seeing the maths that justify bringing the Chimaera to the ambush in the first place, but not continuing the search. If Luke escaped and had time to think, I'd expect him to be thinking either 'were they here for me?' or 'what the hell was on that freighter?'

We don't have complete numbers of Thrawn's fleet (at least 12 SDs?) but it's being stressed repeatedly how stretched it is. If he can afford to waste the flagship of the fleet hunting down a single fighter, he can afford to spend more time on the hunt. He was trying to play off the encounter with luke as an accident, that seems very unlikely to work if you're using any capital ship, especially the fleet flagship, to chase down one light freighter.

CH17:

Luke is stranded in space. This is displeasing. R2 agrees. His comms are also damaged, as is the hyperdrive, which means he can either jury rig repairs somehow, or eventually suffocate when his air runs out. This is another downside of hyperdrive enabled fighters, not much space for spares. Luke has no choice but to attempt repairs in vacuum,which takes hours. He discovers that both his hyperdrive motivators are cracked and therefore unusuable.

He battles despair briefly, but fights it down, tries to call Leia and receives no response. He gets back into the X Wing and next on his list is repairing the subspace antennae. He needs to wind ten kilometers of wire around the antennae -or, R2 does, as he needs to go back to sleep to conserve energy and life support supplies. He sets this up so R2 can keep repairing the antennae, and settles into his trance while calling for Leia one last time.

Leia actually does hear his call from en route to Kashyyyk, but dismisses it as a dream. The entry to the planet is likely to be tense, as the Wookiees (and yes, I did doublecheck the spelling) are known to hold a bit of grudge over being enslaved by the empire, and Leia has trouble with language and is recently down one protocol droid besides.

Chewbacca takes in the ship to land on a sawn off tree limb. There's a welcoming committee of two, and Leia is nervous of her grasp of the language. A wookiee called Ralrracheen speaks, and has a speech impediment that makes him more understandable to humans... which means he was useful as an interpreter for the empire to give orders to slaves...and also made a good spy for the Republic.

Leia mistakes a hug for an attack and nearly draws on Chewbacca before she's stopped. She's escorted to the village, and discovers that by freeing them from slavery, she is held in high esteem by the locals.

The tree city is culture shocking for Leia because it really is a tree city, the branches merge in and out of each other. She wonders if the local realise that means they're all one plant (probably shouldn 't be jumping to conclusions on an unfamiliar planet there, princess). Apparently the closer you get to the ground, the more dangerous Kashyyyk is, it's not a planet to travel lightly.

They take a lift to higher levels, although the locals usually climb with their claws. The elevator is on a vine, with a repulsorlift emergency brake in the unlikely even it breaks. They reach the village and Leia attempts to find transport to her new home. While staring at the buildings, she happens to glimpse a Noghri en passant. Her escort charges the building, but the Noghri's not there. Leias concludes he climbed out over the side of the tree. They fail to pursue to protect Leia.

Okay, how are the Noghri doing this? They can't blend in, and they've now pulled off nearly perfect stealth on three vastly different planets.

Plus side, this means its less likely Thrawn will show up in an SD and level the village. Hope it's not too badly damaged by their attack whenever it happens.

Tense moment with Luke, we get to see his strength under pressure and Jedi mindset. Will anyone give me odds on Karrde being the one who finds him?

[Peelee]

Poor Texas. It's always used to measure other things.

And Space may be big, but Thrawn is also confident that they will find Skywalker, so it cannot be so big that a search is pointless. You can't really say it's a waste of resources either, since he's already brought his flagship into play solely to ambush him.

Not pointless at all. Just longer than Thrawn has time for with his own flagship. No sense throwing good money after bad when you can save overall by outsourcing.

Tense moment with Luke, we get to see his strength under pressure and Jedi mindset. Will anyone give me odds on Karrde being the one who finds him?

I'd love to, but I won't.

[pendell]

We don't have complete numbers of Thrawn's fleet (at least 12 SDs?) but it's being stressed repeatedly how stretched it is.

Don't they tell us in the first chapter of the book? IIRC the Empire is about a quarter the size it was at the battle of Endor. By no means as powerful as it used to be and inferior to the New Republic, but still a significant military power.

Also, who besides the Empire knows that the Chimaera is the flagship?

Aside: I note that Thrawn has chosen an ordinary ISDII as his flag. Not a Galaxy Gun or a Death Star. Is that simply because none are available, or is it a deliberate choice not to build such things? Certainly lack of resources doesn't seem to have stopped Isaard et al from building ridiculously huge ships.

Tense moment with Luke, we get to see his strength under pressure and Jedi mindset. Will anyone give me odds on Karrde being the one who finds him?

From a spoiler-free story perspective, what's the point of introducing a scoundrel like Karrde if Zahn isn't going to use him? Lucas introduced Boba Fett and a bunch of other bounty hunters before having Fett capture Han.

So ... no odds here. Unless Zahn simply decides to pull some other bounty hunter out of the blue, introduce them at the same time they effect the capture. Possible, but if so what is Karrde even doing in this story?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Cikomyr]

I always liked the description of the Wookkiee homeworld there. You can see either Zhan really researched his subject, or just went full creative.

[Peelee]

I always liked the description of the Wookkiee homeworld there. You can see either Zhan really researched his subject, or just went full creative.

Total guess here, but I think he just went full creative. And yeah, it was a wonderful result. I loved going to Kashyyyk in KOTOR. Though I'm also a sucker for wisecracking, cantankerous former Jedi.

[Cikomyr]

Total guess here, but I think he just went full creative. And yeah, it was a wonderful result. I loved going to Kashyyyk in KOTOR. Though I'm also a sucker for wisecracking, cantankerous former Jedi.

Oh my god you did not noticed my spelling of Wookiiee

[Peelee]

Oh my god you did not noticed my spelling of Wookiiee

brb committing ritual suicide to save my honor.

ETA: Wookiee. One I. I am immortal. For reals, I think it's only the E's.

[Blackhawk748]

I noticed, and it drove me nuts too.

[Mechalich]

Don't they tell us in the first chapter of the book? IIRC the Empire is about a quarter the size it was at the battle of Endor. By no means as powerful as it used to be and inferior to the New Republic, but still a significant military power.

Also, who besides the Empire knows that the Chimaera is the flagship?

Aside: I note that Thrawn has chosen an ordinary ISDII as his flag. Not a Galaxy Gun or a Death Star. Is that simply because none are available, or is it a deliberate choice not to build such things? Certainly lack of resources doesn't seem to have stopped Isaard et al from building ridiculously huge ships.

Imperial territory under Thrawn includes the north-central chunk of the galaxy, along with scattered territories elsewhere (Star Wars hyperspace means you can hold territory scattered all over the place, borders aren't really a thing). While the Empire still controls, geographically, about 25% of the known galaxy, the territory it controls is relatively underdeveloped - since all the big and important planets are in the Core and Colonies region. Star Wars planets are remarkably unequal in industrial output, with a factory world like Kuat capable of producing tens of thousands of times the starships of an average planet.

Thrawn's 'fleet' is actually simply the operational group under his direct command. It is not implied to be very large, probably only a few battle groups (the traditional Imperial battle group was 6 ISDs and their support ships).

The actual forces available to the Empire as a whole as much larger. At this point they still had thousands of ISDs, tens of thousands of smaller capital ships, and probably a few dozen battlecruiser and dreadnaught class vessels. However, while Thrawn has used his rank to acquire overall military command of the empire, the Empire is fragmented into hundreds of fiefdoms under various warlords and regional Moffs. Most of the fleet is needed to hold territory against various rebellions and hostile aliens and the warlords are very careful about exactly what they are willing to give Thrawn to play with. Also, a huge concentration of the fleet is in the Deep Core under the not-yet-revealed resurrected Emperor - including pretty much all the biggest ships. Also, because the Empire doesn't control the major industrial worlds anymore, they can't properly sustain their fleet, so that many losses are irrecoverable.

Spoiler

Show

It was retconned after the fact to reconcile the Thrawn Trilogy with Dark Empire that Palpatine was failing to support Thrawn potentially up to the point of active sabotage because he did not want anyone else to restore the Empire to prominence. Since if Palpatine had attacked from the Deep Core in tandem the Empire would have absolutely had fleet superiority, and if Thrawn had been given the leeway to use the various giant ships in the Byss Fleet (as opposed to Palpatine just having them pointless orbit his throneworld) it would have vastly enhanced his tactical options.

[Blackhawk748]

Doesnt the Empire still control the Kuat Driveyards? Cuz im fairly certain they do. Now, controlling it doesnt mean its at capacity, cuz im fairly certain its supply lines are junk right now.

Also i wish the Emperor Reborn was transcribed into a book instead of a comic series, itd be easier to read.

[Mechalich]

Doesnt the Empire still control the Kuat Driveyards? Cuz im fairly certain they do. Now, controlling it doesnt mean its at capacity, cuz im fairly certain its supply lines are junk right now.

Also i wish the Emperor Reborn was transcribed into a book instead of a comic series, itd be easier to read.

The New Republic took Kuat in 8 ABY, a year before Thrawn's campaign, though this wasn't actually determined in the Legends canon until decades after the Thrawn Trilogy was released.

[Blackhawk748]

The New Republic took Kuat in 8 ABY, a year before Thrawn's campaign, though this wasn't actually determined in the Legends canon until decades after the Thrawn Trilogy was released.

Ah, ok. I miss remembered when his campaign happened.

[hamishspence]

At the time HTTE was written, I've been told that Zahn conceived of the Executor as being the only SSD in the Imperial Fleet.

Later sources had the Empire (even Thrawn's Empire) have SSDs besides the Executor, at least one of which, was fully functional and in the possession of one of Thrawn's "underlings" (his Empire was a political confederation rather than a single entity) - the Reaper, which Grand Moff Ardus Kaine of the Pentastar Alignment had.

Kaine lent Thrawn some ships - but kept the Reaper to himself.

Which is covered by

However, while Thrawn has used his rank to acquire overall military command of the empire, the Empire is fragmented into hundreds of fiefdoms under various warlords and regional Moffs. Most of the fleet is needed to hold territory against various rebellions and hostile aliens and the warlords are very careful about exactly what they are willing to give Thrawn to play with.

[Mechalich]

At the time HTTE was written, I've been told that Zahn conceived of the Executor as being the only SSD in the Imperial Fleet.

Yeah, the awareness of various persons, including the authors themselves, of how the EU worked was subject to continual change, with new sources revealing new information that constantly had to be fitted into place, occasionally including necessary retcons.

The best synthesis of the Legends EU as a whole is found in Star Wars: The Essential Atlas and Star Wars: The Essential Guide to Warfare which, taken together, address pretty much every major issue in every significant source and time period with the exception of the events of SWTOR (which wasn't out yet and is ultimately still in process).

The consensus figure for the Imperial Order of Battle is therefore that the Empire at its height - which is about five minutes before the Battle of Endor - had fully 20,000 Imperial Star Destroyers available, with probably several hundred battelcruiser and star dreadnaught (the Executor and similar vessels, like Jerec's Vengeance from the Jedi Knight video game) sized vessels. In this view the naval terminology is actually descriptive: a Star Destroyer would be the equivalent of a WWII destroyer in the order of battle, with a battlecruiser resembling a cruiser and a star dreadnaught a battleship.

It gives some idea of the scale of the Star Wars galaxy and the extremity of Palpatine's megalomania that a vessel as powerful as an Imperial Star Destroyer - fully capable of slagging planets back to the stone age - was viewed as a relatively modest capital ship from the perspective of the Empire's central planning. Of course, it is worth noting that you could fit well over 1 million Imperial Star Destroyers inside the Death Star I.

[hamishspence]

The newcanon seems to be drawing heavily on the Legends books. The 25,000 ISD figure has already been referenced in newcanon computer games, galactic maps are fairly consistent with The Essential Atlas and other works, planet sizes come from The Essential Atlas, and so forth.

In Legends, there were over 20 Executor-type dreadnought ships (exact number unknown) and a few other dreadnoughts. Newcanon (Aftermath: Life Debt) has gone with 13 (and the Eclipse being an Executor-type rather than its own class).

Battlecruisers have also been referenced.

[Cikomyr]

You know what would be cool?

A prequel to Heir to the Empire.

Have a story with Commander Pellaeon's character, trying to do the right thing as one of the ISD commander under one of the various faction of self-appointed Imperial Warlords.

He then encounters Thrawn, and together they unite the Remnants just in time for the beginning of HttE.

After all, we know that:

1- Pellaeon knows that Thrawn is the most brilliant military mind in the Empire. This is said in chapter 1 of HttE
2- Pellaeon hasnt served under Thrawn previously to the current posting. This means that he wasnt wherever Thrawn was prior to his return in Imperial space. So they had to meet

I am sure the "how Thrawn tamed the Remnant" would be a fun story.