5e Druid Handbook - Dreams, Land, Moon, and Shepherd

[th3g0dc0mp13x]

You can't stack Monk + Barbarian, IIRC.

You are correct that you can't stack them, I don't know where that was mentioned though? The way it would work is you use either an animal's natural armor or 10+dex+wis whichever is higher.
Assuming 18 Wisdom.
Base Monk Barbarian
Brown Bear: 11 14 AC 13 AC+Damage Resistance
Direwolf: 14 16 AC 14 AC+DR
Giant Ape: 12 16 AC 16 AC+DR
Giant Shark: 13 14 AC 15 AC+DR


Sidenote: a flying snake with 18 AC sounds like a dope scouting form.

As for the lack of magic that does suck, see if your DM would allow you to use downtime to craft your own magic item as laid out in the DMG/Xanathar's I can't remember which it's in off the top of my head.

[qawwali]

Thank you for this amazing guide, has really helped me greatly understanding the class. My life cleric just died so I am making either a Shepherd or dreams druid, maybe land. I have a week or so to figure it out. Leaning more toward shepherd as I think it will go well with our group(barbarian,fighter(eldritch knight) and wizard are the other players) I am going for a wood elf and rolled 15 15 13 12 11 6. I figure I am taking the 6 in charisma? 6 in any stat seems scary to me but I said I will take what I rolled for it. Eek!

[MaxWilson]

You are correct that you can't stack them, I don't know where that was mentioned though? The way it would work is you use either an animal's natural armor or 10+dex+wis whichever is higher.

Sidebar: if you can get access to Mage Armor, 13 + Dex is pretty competitive with 10 + Dex + Wis for many (most?) moon druids even without the monk dip. E.g. AC 18 in Air Elemental form.

[qawwali]

Thank you for this amazing guide, has really helped me greatly understanding the class. My life cleric just died so I am making either a Shepherd or dreams druid, maybe land. I have a week or so to figure it out. Leaning more toward shepherd as I think it will go well with our group(barbarian,fighter(eldritch knight) and wizard are the other players) I am going for a wood elf and rolled 15 15 13 12 11 6. I figure I am taking the 6 in charisma? 6 in any stat seems scary to me but I said I will take what I rolled for it. Eek!

oh I start at level 5 so was going to out my first ASI to get wis to 18, seemed the right first step.

[th3g0dc0mp13x]

Sidebar: if you can get access to Mage Armor, 13 + Dex is pretty competitive with 10 + Dex + Wis for many (most?) moon druids even without the monk dip. E.g. AC 18 in Air Elemental form.

This is a solid idea that I might float to my DM, though the spell ends when you don any armor so you'd have to make sure you had a decent dex.

Thank you for this amazing guide, has really helped me greatly understanding the class. My life cleric just died so I am making either a Shepherd or dreams druid, maybe land. I have a week or so to figure it out. Leaning more toward shepherd as I think it will go well with our group(barbarian,fighter(eldritch knight) and wizard are the other players) I am going for a wood elf and rolled 15 15 13 12 11 6. I figure I am taking the 6 in charisma? 6 in any stat seems scary to me but I said I will take what I rolled for it. Eek!

I love the look of the Shepard, the only reason I didn't go that route is because my friends didn't want me constantly summoning and having to control them. I'd personally take the six in strength or intelligence. But that's a personal issue with never wanting to have low charisma. With that stat layout i would go 6,15*,15, 11,16*,12 Take my wisdom to 18 at 4 and at 8 grab resilient Con to round out the odd score and get proficiency in concentration checks. If you ever really need strength you can turn into a bear or something since you won't be wild-shaping for combat.

[hymer]

@ qawwali: Thank you, and I'm glad you've found some use for the guide.
Shepherd's totem spirits will go well you with melee friends, though the shepherd propensity for conjured minions might not. If you fight in small spaces, there may not be enough space for everyone to fight. You can help this with summons like velociraptors (which are Tiny and can move through Medium and larger enemies) or blink dogs (who can blink past enemies and attack from their rear). So it won't have to be a problem you can't cope with, as long as you plan for it.
Charisma is certainly a candidate for your dreaded 6. I'd hate to play an int 6 druid (another low priority stat). As mentioned above, str 6 is another option. I'd fluff that as an old and weakened druid walking with a stick. But if I was playing a wood elf (with their 35' movement and high dex), I'd prefer someone more able-bodied, and put the 6 in charisma. It fits a reclusive elf who prefers the company of animals over people. One though in that vein is whether anyone in the party has a decent charisma? It seems likely nobody does, but as long as you aren't expected to be the face of the group (or want to), there's nothing lost on that account with you dumping charisma.
As for the ASI, it makes sense. You can't really go wrong with upping your casting stat. That said, Shepherds probably cast slightly fewer spells that require a saving throw, as their abilities boost conjuring over debuffs and control. So with that in mind, Warcaster and Resilient (Constitution) gain a slight edge in comparison. So that's something for your consideration.

[qawwali]

@ qawwali: Thank you, and I'm glad you've found some use for the guide.
Shepherd's totem spirits will go well you with melee friends, though the shepherd propensity for conjured minions might not. If you fight in small spaces, there may not be enough space for everyone to fight. You can help this with summons like velociraptors (which are Tiny and can move through Medium and larger enemies) or blink dogs (who can blink past enemies and attack from their rear). So it won't have to be a problem you can't cope with, as long as you plan for it.
Charisma is certainly a candidate for your dreaded 6. I'd hate to play an int 6 druid (another low priority stat). As mentioned above, str 6 is another option. I'd fluff that as an old and weakened druid walking with a stick. But if I was playing a wood elf (with their 35' movement and high dex), I'd prefer someone more able-bodied, and put the 6 in charisma. It fits a reclusive elf who prefers the company of animals over people. One though in that vein is whether anyone in the party has a decent charisma? It seems likely nobody does, but as long as you aren't expected to be the face of the group (or want to), there's nothing lost on that account with you dumping charisma.
As for the ASI, it makes sense. You can't really go wrong with upping your casting stat. That said, Shepherds probably cast slightly fewer spells that require a saving throw, as their abilities boost conjuring over debuffs and control. So with that in mind, Warcaster and Resilient (Constitution) gain a slight edge in comparison. So that's something for your consideration.

Thanks for the swift reply, I think I will go with charisma for my dump stat and roleplay it as either, not picking up or just not caring about the subtleties that play out in conversations preferring to be direct. I would rather be less charismatic than stupid or weak. Strength and intelligence tests are being taken quite a lot so far.
Going to be half summoner and half healer with the unicorn totems healing buff If damage is heavy or other buffs if necessary on the other totems.

I wish dreams was more attractive on paper
I really like the idea but the heals from totems and slots will out heal balm.I love the level 6 ability but has nothing helpful in combat and I figure it will be forgotten how good it is by other players compared to other level 6 abilities rather quickly and it will only a matter of time before the DM starts planning around it.

[Nightstouch]

Loved your druid guide. Thank you. One question, is there a reason that you did not add the Tortle package race in your guide. Wondering your thoughts on the the race as a druid. Starting a campaign as one. Still thinking between circles and your guide helped. Love to see what you think of the Tortle race. Thanks again.

Nightstouch

[MaxWilson]

Thanks for the swift reply, I think I will go with charisma for my dump stat and roleplay it as either, not picking up or just not caring about the subtleties that play out in conversations preferring to be direct. I would rather be less charismatic than stupid or weak. Strength and intelligence tests are being taken quite a lot so far.
Going to be half summoner and half healer with the unicorn totems healing buff If damage is heavy or other buffs if necessary on the other totems.

I wish dreams was more attractive on paper
I really like the idea but the heals from totems and slots will out heal balm.I love the level 6 ability but has nothing helpful in combat and I figure it will be forgotten how good it is by other players compared to other level 6 abilities rather quickly and it will only a matter of time before the DM starts planning around it.

If you dump Charisma, remember that you're giving up the option of investing in Inspiring Leader feat, which means you'll rely more heavily on Bear totem than you otherwise might. (Also, Inspiring Leader gives more temp HP.)

Just something to consider.

Personally I don't mind playing physically weak characters. We all start off physically weak as babies after all, and even a PC with Str 8 is freakishly strong by the standards of real-world humans (e.g. can carry 120 lb. of equipment all day without slowing down). A low-Strength character who is physically small may be mechanically penalized, but from a roleplaying angle it doesn't bother me to play a Legolas with Strength 7 and Dex 18. I can still respect and empathize with that character, in a way that I maybe couldn't if he were Int 7 and Dex 18.

(Also, a Druid can always wildshape into a bear or something if he wants to temporarily boost his Strength.)

[hymer]

@ Nightstouch: Thank you very much, and I'm glad you've found my guide useful.
As for tortles, I'm reliably informed they are DM's Guild material, and as such I'm not going to include them in the guide. I also don't include Unearthed Arcana elements. I have to draw the line somewhere, and when it comes to DM's Guild, the obvious place is this side of it: No DM's Guild stuff.
As for my thoughts on tortles, I don't have any, because I haven't seen their stats. But I'm sure you can get informed opinions if you bring the question up on this forum. Just start a thread and ask people's opinions, and I'm sure you'll get responses.

@ MaxWilson: My personal annoyance with too low a strength score is mostly jumping distance. Having str 10 at least means the ability to reliably jump two spaces, which comes in handy. Having below five seems pretty unbearable for that reason. But, as you say, with druids this is a smaller consideration than it is for just about anyone else.

[Nightstouch]

[QUOTE=hymer;22973407]@ Nightstouch: Thank you very much, and I'm glad you've found my guide useful.
As for tortles, I'm reliably informed they are DM's Guild material, and as such I'm not going to include them in the guide. I also don't include Unearthed Arcana elements. I have to draw the line somewhere, and when it comes to DM's Guild, the obvious place is this side of it: No DM's Guild stuff.
As for my thoughts on tortles, I don't have any, because I haven't seen their stats. But I'm sure you can get informed opinions if you bring the question up on this forum. Just start a thread and ask people's opinions, and I'm sure you'll get responses.

I understand you thoughts on drawing a line. Just a little confused here. What is the DM's Guild material. The Tortle package is a Wizards of the Coast supplement, and Tortle is an acceptable race in adventure league. They even just made a Tortle in the online clicker champions game. It was even a druid. Not that I want to argue with you, you drew your line. Thank you for your time, and I look forward to any additions to this guide.

[hymer]

What is the DM's Guild material.

Here's what I was told earlier in the thread, and the link to back it up:

They were a special release from WoTC for Extra Life. They are AL legal and you can get the details on the DM's Guild:

https://www.dmsguild.com/product/221...tle-Package-5e

I don't doubt that it's AL legal. But the legal way for me to get access to the Tortle would be by buying it from DM's Guild. I've bought all the books, I'm not buying any DLC.

[MaxWilson]

@ MaxWilson: My personal annoyance with too low a strength score is mostly jumping distance. Having str 10 at least means the ability to reliably jump two spaces, which comes in handy. Having below five seems pretty unbearable for that reason. But, as you say, with druids this is a smaller consideration than it is for just about anyone else.

That makes sense.

As an aside: jumping is extremely strange in 5E in not taking weight ratios into account at all. If the DM doesn't change the jumping rules, a 5E elephant can long jump 22 feet or high-jump right over the head of an average person, whereas a housecat cannot jump even a foot into the air. This is of course the opposite of how cats and elephants operate in real life.

In any game where jumping actually happens enough to be a concern during character creation, I would want to rationalize the jumping rules.

[hymer]

@ MaxWilson: Very astute observation. Likewise, the creatures game technically best at dealing with a fall are the large, ungainly ones with the big hp pools.

[MaxWilson]

@ MaxWilson: Very astute observation. Likewise, the creatures game technically best at dealing with a fall are the large, ungainly ones with the big hp pools.

Yes. I have a houserule for that (falling damage is 3d6 per 10', and falling damage doubles/halves for each size category) but big creatures like elephants still wind up tolerating falls much better than in real life.

[a2a3a2a3]

Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes is out! Could you do some ratings on the new races? Fierna Tiefling has Wisdom ability score increase, and it could arguably be combined with Feral (+2 DEX, +1 WIS). Also, the Githzerai are the second official race to have +2 Wisdom. Surely some good druid picks?

[hymer]

@ a2a3a2a3;23083728: I ordered my copy about a week ago. It's supposed to reach me on the first of June. Once I get it and read it, I'll update the guide.

[HMS Invincible]

If my dm allows wild shape to get your class proficiency bonus, how should I change my wild shape choices? It helps keep up with accuracy, so I don't feel as weak picking less accurate attacks.

[hymer]

If my dm allows wild shape to get your class proficiency bonus, how should I change my wild shape choices? It helps keep up with accuracy, so I don't feel as weak picking less accurate attacks.

I'm assuming moon druid? By the time there is a substantial difference between your prof bonus and that of a beast (first time at lvl 9, I'd say), you don't have a lot of options at your highest available CR. a +2 bonus is more valuable in percentage terms to someone with a low chance to hit than a high one, so the Giant Scorpion may be given more of an advantage in terms of damage. On the other hand, there's a lot to be said for reliability.
However your decide to rate the bonus, you are likely to be picking shapes based on the peculiarities of those shapes anyway. If you want a grappler at that tier, you'd be picking the scorpion anyway. If you want someone who can knock enemies down to give melee allies advantage, you pick ankylosaurus. And if you're going for a tough shape, you pick the turtle. They all get something out of +2 to hit.

All in all, I don't think it will have any major impact on how you play. It won't let you catch up to the curve in terms of damage dealing, at any rate. If it did, it would definitely be unfair to the melee.

[sambojin]

@ a2a3a2a3;23083728: I ordered my copy about a week ago. It's supposed to reach me on the first of June. Once I get it and read it, I'll update the guide.

Looking forward to it. There seems to be a few extra dinosaurs in my Companions app too, so I assume they're from MToF. Might be worth analyzing them from both a WS and Conjure Animals perspective.

And one is a 10/20' spit blinder/paralyzer. No damage, but having a ranged condition creator (at admittedly a poor +4 attack, DC12 vs Con save) might be fun. A bit better if you can get your own proficiency later on in WS too, though the DC will still stink.

Dilophosaurus was it's name, and at CR1 you only get two per Conjure Animals casting level, but it still looks cool. Like one of those spitting dinos from one of the Jurassic movies. Good to have another ranged attacker outside Apes, Octopi and big dinos anyway (long reach and short range is essentially the same in combat).

There's also a Pachycephlosaurus and Utahraptor at CR2, which look pretty good as HP or AC sponges (68HP or 15AC respectively, which is pretty good for the level). The Giant Lightning Eel looks quite nice as a CR3 AoE stun enabler in water adventures as well.

There's quite a few newies, and that app tends to only list official stuff, not homebrew. I'll have to confirm when I get my copy of MToF.

[MaxWilson]

Looking forward to it. There seems to be a few extra dinosaurs in my Companions app too, so I assume they're from MToF. Might be worth analyzing them from both a WS and Conjure Animals perspective.

MToF has no beasts in it at all, so the dinosaurs must be from something else.

[HMS Invincible]

MToF has no beasts in it at all, so the dinosaurs must be from something else.

It's from beasts of jungle rot, which is heavily featured in Tomb of Annihilation

http://www.dmsguild.com/product/2205...the-Jungle-Rot
I don't know why, but it's adventure league legal, though your DM may demand that it counts towards your PHB+1 limit. It has up to cr10 beasts, for all your polymorphing and wild shape needs. They aren't great, but anything is better than the elemental once they run out of steam.

[sambojin]

Cheers. Was wondering where the hell they came from.

That's one of the advantages of druids. Sometimes there's stuff that's fluffy, or just stat blocks with no character building crunch. But for druids, nearly anything has a tiny bit of crunch related to it, as long as it has certain keywords attached to it. Beast, Fey, Elemental, "not made of metal", it's all good.

It's one of the few classes that the more stuff that gets released, the stronger they potentially get. Would knowing about/seeing an animal even count as PHB+1? I mean, you can backstory damn near anything into your character. If dinos exist in your gameworld, why not *those* dinos as well? That you just so coincidentally happened to see, at about the age of 5, when going frolicking around some jungle somewhere. Might have been the event that made you tread the path of the Druid in the first place. "I wanna be one of them. Raaarrrgghhh!"


Still good if you're going for a PHB race and Moon as your Druid class. Because, VHumans and Half Elves needed that sort of boost.... Lol

*The Book of Rotten Wildshapes*. Now with extra HP, AC, CR and reach, for all your wildshaping and polymorphing needs. Backstories optional.

I actually would PHB+1 that in, just for the extra late game options. Velociraptors are nice and all, but they're essentially just wolves on roids. Gimme some big stuff. Real big stuff. And laugh that you're explicitly making dinosaurs AL legal in any campaign due to character creation choices 😎
So f'ing meta it's gold.
It's not really what PHB+1 means in AL character creation (it's not on the +1 list), but if your DM said it was your +1 for those beast options, then dinosaurs exist in that gameworld.

[sambojin]

There's also a Giant Spitting Lizard at CR2 in the "Companions" app now. Again, no idea where it's from.

Reasonable HP, +5 attack with a 1d8+3 *auto-grapple* and a 2d4 poison damage rider. Only DC13 to escape, but it's still auto-grapple on hit, with advantage on future attacks against that creature!

And a double (against two adjacent targets) 3d6+3 poison spit attack, 30' range, +5 to-hit. Which is nice if there's no resistance/immunity on a hoard mob.

And the big one, an explicit reaction trip/push attack when they move adjacent to you. Prones them, pushes them 10', ends their movement. It's like a non-damaging PAM+Sentinel combo to lock down a single opponent. It's incredible.


God I hope it's from Rotten WS Jungle Beasts, and is thus AL legal. Because that's really good, when all combined. Anyone up for a game of Spike Growth mook hockey?


(there's also the Jaculi at CR1/2. Which means it's accessible to lots of other druid types. So yeah. Another charge attack. With an "advantage after 10' charge/spring rider". That does 4d6+2 damage. At CR1/2. No swim or fly speed to worry about, but has a climb speed just for giggles. Yeah...... Seems in line with the others. Lol.
Every druid now has another passable combat form at lvl4 instead of just warhorse. Crap HP and only +4 to-hit, but 4d6+2 with advantage is still pretty good. Even has 10' blindsight, for all those fogcloud/darkness shenanigans, and a +4 athletics/stealth skillset. And advantage on hide and perception rolls. It's just a very nicely rounded package at that CR. Your "adventuring combat form", that does a bit of everything, actually quite well. Except HP).


I'll actually be happy to pay for an extra copy of Jungle Beasts of Rot for the guide writer if they'd like. I'll PayPal the cost to you or something. It's only $5, so I'll just look at it as one less rum for the week, but a better guide for us all. So, would you like a copy Hymer?
I know you're against adding DM Guild stuff to the guide, but maybe just asterix those creatures? It's about as close to a +WS druid book there is, is AL legal, and has pretty good reviews. I'll be grabbing a copy tomorrow night anyway, so an extra won't hurt. So, yes/no?

[hymer]

@ sambojin: No thank you, though it's a generous offer.
As I've said, I have to draw a line somewhere. But if someone wants to make a good review of all the less official stuff they can get their hands on, I'll be happy to link to it in my guide.

Btw, my copy of MToF has arrived, and I hope to find some time to read through the relevant stuff tonight. So there should be an update of races pretty soon.

Edit: Duergar, elf subraces and the two gith added, and I updated the references on deep gnomes.

[Merudo]

There's also a Giant Spitting Lizard at CR2 in the "Companions" app now. Again, no idea where it's from.

Reasonable HP, +5 attack with a 1d8+3 *auto-grapple* and a 2d4 poison damage rider. Only DC13 to escape, but it's still auto-grapple on hit, with advantage on future attacks against that creature!

And a double (against two adjacent targets) 3d6+3 poison spit attack, 30' range, +5 to-hit. Which is nice if there's no resistance/immunity on a hoard mob.

And the big one, an explicit reaction trip/push attack when they move adjacent to you. Prones them, pushes them 10', ends their movement. It's like a non-damaging PAM+Sentinel combo to lock down a single opponent. It's incredible.

It's in both Return of the Lizard King, and Encounters in the Jungles of Chult. The two are AL legal.

My guide describes the creatures included in both supplements.

[HMS Invincible]

Return of the lizard King has decent stuff, but jungle rot has the best stuff for high CR outside of the core books. It depends on how nice (and nonsensical) your Gm is. Like mine demanded to know how I met, both a crag cat in the Frozen North, and a female steeder in the underdark, and dinosaurs.

[HMS Invincible]

Question, what is the value of wild shape forms that deal extra damage against prone if nobody in your party ever trips people?
All your animal guides assume that the enemy will be prone or stay prone long enough to deal extra damage. Is that common among adventuring groups?

[hymer]

Question, what is the value of wild shape forms that deal extra damage against prone if nobody in your party ever trips people?
All your animal guides assume that the enemy will be prone or stay prone long enough to deal extra damage. Is that common among adventuring groups?

I don't think that there is that assumption. The one place that springs to mind where it really matters is with the Giant Moose Elk. As I note there, a very large part of the damage of that form comes into effect if you attack a prone opponent. As a druid, you have access to tools to prone opponents if you think it's worth it (wolves and dire wolves spring to mind, a giant constrictor is pretty good at keeping people down once they get there). Stating what I thought was obvious: If the party doesn't have proning tactics in use, and you don't want to spend the resources to deploy them (like if you are Concentrating on something else) you should probably pick a different form.
Other forms get an additional bonus action attack if they manage to prone an enemy in a charge (lions, e.g.). But these forms come with their own proning abilities that fit with it, though they still benefit from attacking an already prone opponent - there's no risk they will manage to stay on their feet and avoid the extra attack.

[TorqueSpec]

Quick note on cantrips: Produce Flame can only target creatures and does not have a clause that allows it to light fires the way Druidcraft or Fire Bolt do. It cannot be used to light anything on fire, which hurts its versatility quite a bit. Should probably be moved down a rank. As written, it's a torch that you can throw for mediocre damage without the chaos ensuing that throwing an actual torch would cause. Most druids who build with an emphasis on Dex, as you recommend, would be better off just using a longbow or shortbow.