Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

[theNater]

Actually when Wiz normally corrects Boomstick it's pretty obvious since he accents the word "actually"...

And therefore can't possibly be doing it without the word "actually"? I'm fairly sure you know better than that, and I don't know why you would pretend otherwise. I mean, you can clearly argue the point on the merits, so there's no benefit in this silly semantic game.

[Lemmy]

The outcome was DBd so I expected that. The next match is stupid for multiple reasons. Let's not forget that ever since Tekken 7 it's been canonized that they share a universe with Street Fighter, and Jin has beaten a god. Pretty sure that trumps anything Ryu has done.

I don't know if that's makes it canon that they share an universe... Akuma shows up in Children of the Atom, but that doesn't mean he lives in the same universe as the X-men. Not to mention SF vs X-Men, SF vs Marvel Superheroes and the whole MvC franchise.

I think they are just guest characters.

[Reddish Mage]

Literally nothing in that link shows "infinity" anything. Unless you want to use the "he lifted spectre, and spectre weighs infinity"

You were talking about multiple Superman feats (such as tanking a Supernova). Now you want to pick on infinity exclusively, even though you yourself admit its either has been done multiple times, or not at all.

Can you please pick an example of an outlier that you actually agree happened and only once?

Superman tanking a Supernova or something equivalent for example which has happened, more than once.

[HolyDraconus]

I don't know if that's makes it canon that they share an universe... Akuma shows up in Children of the Atom, but that doesn't mean he lives in the same universe as the X-men. Not to mention SF vs X-Men, SF vs Marvel Superheroes and the whole MvC franchise.

I think they are just guest characters.

You would think that, except harada flat out retconned the origins of the series and plugged him in. And usually, the story mode of tekken is canon. If he was just a guest, he would of been introduced like Geese was in tekken, or whatever the final fantasy character name is.

[Devonix]

You would think that, except harada flat out retconned the origins of the series and plugged him in. And usually, the story mode of tekken is canon. If he was just a guest, he would of been introduced like Geese was in tekken, or whatever the final fantasy character name is.

It's canon that Akuma is in tekken. Now it's incredibly debatable as to weather or not we can consider him the same Akuma as the one in Streetfighter.

[ArlEammon]

It's canon that Akuma is in tekken. Now it's incredibly debatable as to weather or not we can consider him the same Akuma as the one in Streetfighter.

There's probably dimension shenanigans going on.

[Devonix]

There's probably dimension shenanigans going on.

Unlikely, It's just that there is a character in Tekken named Akuma that exists in it. He's not a guest character, just a version that exists there.

[Reddish Mage]

It's canon that Akuma is in tekken. Now it's incredibly debatable as to weather or not we can consider him the same Akuma as the one in Streetfighter.

The Death Battle way of resolving it is to question whether the Akuma in Tekken has abilities that are inconsistent with the Akuma in Street-fighter. If they contradict the Streetfighter version controls. If they are compatible Akuma can totally have the abilities of the Tekken version.

Stuff like origin story, history, and other fluff doesn't matter. How does he fight?

[HolyDraconus]

The Death Battle way of resolving it is to question whether the Akuma in Tekken has abilities that are inconsistent with the Akuma in Street-fighter. If they contradict the Streetfighter version controls. If they are compatible Akuma can totally have the abilities of the Tekken version.

Stuff like origin story, history, and other fluff doesn't matter. How does he fight?

He fights a tad bit slower than expected but surprisingly a hell of a lot better than capcom's own attempts at a 3d shoto. The iconic Akuma moves are here, including raging demon, with a more fleshed out movelist (tekken normally has 40+ moves per character and Akuma is no different). However he's based off his sf4 appearance, not sfv. Shin Akuma also lurks in there too with a faithful rendition in 3d. Since Harada worked for 4 years to make him canon in Tekken, the power scaling should be even easier this time around. Akuma stalemated Kazuya. Who was beaten down by Jin. Ryu can not beat an Akuma that isn't holding back, who stalemated against an opponent who is weaker than his upcoming fight. Ryu should lose this pretty hard. I agree whoever said it up thread: Jin would be better matched against someone from KoF.

[Devonix]

He fights a tad bit slower than expected but surprisingly a hell of a lot better than capcom's own attempts at a 3d shoto. The iconic Akuma moves are here, including raging demon, with a more fleshed out movelist (tekken normally has 40+ moves per character and Akuma is no different). However he's based off his sf4 appearance, not sfv. Shin Akuma also lurks in there too with a faithful rendition in 3d. Since Harada worked for 4 years to make him canon in Tekken, the power scaling should be even easier this time around. Akuma stalemated Kazuya. Who was beaten down by Jin. Ryu can not beat an Akuma that isn't holding back, who stalemated against an opponent who is weaker than his upcoming fight. Ryu should lose this pretty hard. I agree whoever said it up thread: Jin would be better matched against someone from KoF.

Yep as I said before Jin should fight Rock Howard. Both are sons of Evil businessmen who inherited dark powers that they struggle to control.

[Lemmy]

Yep as I said before Jin should fight Rock Howard. Both are sons of Evil businessmen who inherited dark powers that they struggle to control.

I thought the theme of the fight was "boring protagonist with cliché evil powers he can't control".

[Lemmy]

I'm still not convinced SF and TEKKEN share an universe. At best, the Tekken universe has its own version of Akuma. There are large scale events in SF canon that are not even mentioned in Tekken. And vice-versa.

I doubt Akuma's role in Tekken7 will be mentioned or even alluded to in future games, when whatever deal Capcom and NAMCO have ends. IMHO, they just gave Akuma a particularly proeminent role in the story because of how popular he is and possibly because they already had part of the cutscenes and spoken lines already made (for Tekken x SF, which NAMCO was developing until Capcom killed the franchise with the DLC-horror fest that ia SF x Tekken).

Anx hey... We see Evil Ryu fighting Asura, from Asura's Wrath. A game developed by Capcom... Actually, now that I think about it... Have they ever used Asura in DB? He'd be a cool choice.

[Unrelated Rant about Tekken story]
Jin beating Heihachi and Kazuya is one of thr dumbest moments in the series... It undermined the two main villains of the series and made Jin even more boring as a protagonist. They later explained that Jin's victory was in part because he was waking his devil gene and because Heihachi and Kazuya were not at full strength due to fighting each other a few minutes before meeting Jin (who has been captures by the Tekken Force and had been in captivity for a few hours), but even then, it was a terrible story decision, IMO.
[/rant]

[Devonix]

We can all agree that it sucks just how badly Paul Phoenix gets shafted. Guy is able to fight even with Kazuya for hours straight.

Is flat out better than nearly the entire cast to an insane degree. And yet is never allowed a win.

[Mato]

Lots of these scans are also missing context and additional information.

The poster hyperboles statements and likes his character vs character examples a little too much too.

"Superman was able to withstand being on a localized gravity field that simulated the pull of a large black hole, and he stands up on it despite its massive pull" - Poster
"Like it fancy-pants? It's a localized gravity field -- like you're tryin' to stand up in a black hole or somethin'. A big one. Some kind of outer-space dingus. Came in the last shipment." - Panel.
So they guy talking about it has no idea what it is, how it works, and barely understands what it does. Emphasizes big thing over the insane gravitational pull of a black hole, but the poster says it's a black hole.

But one point that does matter, "X respect" will pull comicvine & reddit threads which can some times be helpful. Comicvine also has some power feat math you can reference if needed too.

[HolyDraconus]

We can all agree that it sucks just how badly Paul Phoenix gets shafted. Guy is able to fight even with Kazuya for hours straight.

Is flat out better than nearly the entire cast to an insane degree. And yet is never allowed a win.

Paul DID win a Tekken. He slacked off cause he thought he was still hot shi.. and got his butt pushed in. He's been training ever since to get back on top, but when the final fight of a tournament is a god, you tend to bow out. Considering that the Mishima family are a bunch of monsters save Hiaichi (who is dead dead this time. Like on screen killed dead) and tend to be the final bosses of the tournaments, specially since the war was started to take over the planet, Paul will not be winning again till this mess calms the f down. Even Violet is backing out of this one, and between him and Lars, they the closest thing to a normal Mishima that you can get.

[Rater202]

The poster hyperboles statements and likes his character vs character examples a little too much too.

"Superman was able to withstand being on a localized gravity field that simulated the pull of a large black hole, and he stands up on it despite its massive pull" - Poster
"Like it fancy-pants? It's a localized gravity field -- like you're tryin' to stand up in a black hole or somethin'. A big one. Some kind of outer-space dingus. Came in the last shipment." - Panel.
So they guy talking about it has no idea what it is, how it works, and barely understands what it does. Emphasizes big thing over the insane gravitational pull of a black hole, but the poster says it's a black hole.

But one point that does matter, "X respect" will pull comicvine & reddit threads which can some times be helpful. Comicvine also has some power feat math you can reference if needed too.

Adding to this and repeating an earliar point I made the last time Superman came up.

One of Superman's primary powers is ignoring the natural laws that govern gravity and momentum in order to levitate and flie--to the point of being able to effortlessly and remotly generate momentum in a gravityless vacuum(flying in space.)

Withstanding any level of Gravity, for Clark, is not a feat of strength or of toughness. It's a feat of the abillities that allow Superman to fly.

[Lemmy]

Adding to this and repeating an earliar point I made the last time Superman came up.

One of Superman's primary powers is ignoring the natural laws that govern gravity and momentum in order to levitate and flie--to the point of being able to effortlessly and remotly generate momentum in a gravityless vacuum(flying in space.)

Withstanding any level of Gravity, for Clark, is not a feat of strength or of toughness. It's a feat of the abillities that allow Superman to fly.

I'm not sure about that, actually... Superman is said to have some sort of tactical telekinesis, which is often used as the explanation why he can carry bizarrely large stuff without breaking them (although seemingly every other super-strong character is able to do the same without the telekinesis), and at one point he even comments that stuff "feels lighter" when he's flying. Rather than ignoring gravity, I think he uses telekinesis to exert force on his own body, thus propelling him... Specially because there are scenes of him being affected by gravity-based powers and the like.

It's still not a feat of physical strength, of course, but it isn't just him being downright immune to gravity (that wouldn't allow him to fly the way he does).

[McNum]

I think I forgot to post the last one, but today's the day of the three letter name brawl!

Spoiler: Ryu Vs. Jin

Show

Honestly, when they showed that Ryu had one more super mode than Jin, I had a feeling they'd give it to Ryu. Kind of funny how most of Ryu's feat were via Akuma. But then again, Jin's were via Kazuya, so that evens out. Plus, being able to take hits from Akuma is a pretty scary feat in itself.

Overall, I liked this one, good 3D fight, and a martial artist duel is usually pretty fun to watch.

Spoiler: Next Time...

Show

Samurai Jack vs. the Afro Samurai

I know Jack. I do not know the Afro Samurai. I do know that unless Jack has gone faster, they'll use the water drop fight for Jack's top combat speed. You know, the one where he takes out four bounty hunters in the time it takes for a drop to fall about a meter or two.

[Rater202]

To people who know: Would Afro Samurai in any way shape or form count as "Innocent?"

Becuase Jack'sMagic sword, forged by the Cheif-Most Gods of three differant religions from a piece of his Father's Righteous Soul, has a limitaion on it: An evil person can't use it to harm those who are good or innocent.

It's commonly misunderstood that it can't hurt those who are good or innocent at all, which is demonstrably not the case(On two or three occasions Jack has been led by circumstances to harm people or animals who were not evil--Once when he was turning into Aku by catching Aku's cold, once when he slew a retired and reformed robot assassin who was forced back into the game becuase his beloved pet was kidnapped, and once when Aku transformed the innocent goats of a mountain into monsters to trick Jack into killing them.)

If Afro counts as Innocent or Pure Good, there's a chance that DB might go with the misconception and give it to him.

[Keltest]

To people who know: Would Afro Samurai in any way shape or form count as "Innocent?"

Becuase Jack'sMagic sword, forged by the Cheif-Most Gods of three differant religions from a piece of his Father's Righteous Soul, has a limitaion on it: An evil person can't use it to harm those who are good or innocent.

It's commonly misunderstood that it can't hurt those who are good or innocent at all, which is demonstrably not the case(On two or three occasions Jack has been led by circumstances to harm people or animals who were not evil--Once when he was turning into Aku by catching Aku's cold, once when he slew a retired and reformed robot assassin who was forced back into the game becuase his beloved pet was kidnapped, and once when Aku transformed the innocent goats of a mountain into monsters to trick Jack into killing them.)

If Afro counts as Innocent or Pure Good, there's a chance that DB might go with the misconception and give it to him.

Jack's sword is a useful tool, but its hardly the only weapon he's proficient with. If the sword for whatever reason cant be used to finish Afro, he can fall back on things like a bow, or a gun, or a pit trap, or a falling rock, or what have you.

[Traab]

I admit, I was thinking jin had this in the bag, especially with that head beam attack towards the end. I listened to the death beam survial feat and figured ryu didnt have anything stronger than that in his arsenal. Guess I was wrong. I still think its a bit hinky to say, "His opponent was able to unleash a strike that strong, ryu beat him, hence he is at least as strong" And also that durability isnt always equal to power, and that surviving an exploding island isnt the same as tanking the blow directly, but meh, its death battle, its not really worth getting that far into an argument. As for the upcoming one, I honestly dont know much about either character. It may come own to who is the most cartoonish in their feats.

[Rater202]

Jack's sword is a useful tool, but its hardly the only weapon he's proficient with. If the sword for whatever reason cant be used to finish Afro, he can fall back on things like a bow, or a gun, or a pit trap, or a falling rock, or what have you.

Death Battles usually restricts characters to tools and abillities that they demonstrate regularly.

Jack has demonstrated Archery, Marksmanship, Motorcycle riding, and the use of dozens of tools and weapons... But in the vast majority of episodes all he's got is the sword. DB has made rulings in th epast that give them precedent for leaving him with just his sword

[Keltest]

Death Battles usually restricts characters to tools and abillities that they demonstrate regularly.

Jack has demonstrated Archery, Marksmanship, Motorcycle riding, and the use of dozens of tools and weapons... But in the vast majority of episodes all he's got is the sword. DB has made rulings in th epast that give them precedent for leaving him with just his sword

He definitely knows hand to hand combat. If the sword doesn't work, he can, in a worst case scenario, punch Afro to death after pinning him down.

[Dragonus45]

Death Battles usually restricts characters to tools and abillities that they demonstrate regularly.

Jack has demonstrated Archery, Marksmanship, Motorcycle riding, and the use of dozens of tools and weapons... But in the vast majority of episodes all he's got is the sword. DB has made rulings in th epast that give them precedent for leaving him with just his sword

Considering he spends a great deal of time in the most recent season without it I imagine it would be hard to justify saying it’s his only weapon.

[HolyDraconus]

I admit, I was thinking jin had this in the bag, especially with that head beam attack towards the end. I listened to the death beam survial feat and figured ryu didnt have anything stronger than that in his arsenal. Guess I was wrong. I still think its a bit hinky to say, "His opponent was able to unleash a strike that strong, ryu beat him, hence he is at least as strong" And also that durability isnt always equal to power, and that surviving an exploding island isnt the same as tanking the blow directly, but meh, its death battle, its not really worth getting that far into an argument. As for the upcoming one, I honestly dont know much about either character. It may come own to who is the most cartoonish in their feats.

He was DBd. By the logic and facts given, Jin shouldn't have fought since he went up against literal end of street fighter ryu, when his story is still being told.

[Forum Explorer]

He was DBd. By the logic and facts given, Jin shouldn't have fought since he went up against literal end of street fighter ryu, when his story is still being told.

Wait what? By what logic is that?


Anyways, I really liked the animation of this last fight. It's certainly one of their better ones. And it turned out to be a surprisingly fun matchup to boot.

Now for the next one? Sadly I'm not very familiar with either, but I don't think Afro Samari would count as an innocent.

[HolyDraconus]

Wait what? By what logic is that?


Anyways, I really liked the animation of this last fight. It's certainly one of their better ones. And it turned out to be a surprisingly fun matchup to boot.

Now for the next one? Sadly I'm not very familiar with either, but I don't think Afro Samari would count as an innocent.

You know how in that match of Terry v Ken they gave it to Terry citing that he beat a god? What do you think Ogre was in Tekken? Or Azazel? And it still doesn't change the fact that Kazuya fought Akuma, who wasn't holding back,to a standstill and Jin surpasses Kazuya.

[Forum Explorer]

You know how in that match of Terry v Ken they gave it to Terry citing that he beat a god? What do you think Ogre was in Tekken? Or Azazel? And it still doesn't change the fact that Kazuya fought Akuma, who wasn't holding back,to a standstill and Jin surpasses Kazuya.

No, I mean the idea that Jin shouldn't have fought at all.

[Reddish Mage]

Death Battles usually restricts characters to tools and abillities that they demonstrate regularly.

Jack has demonstrated Archery, Marksmanship, Motorcycle riding, and the use of dozens of tools and weapons... But in the vast majority of episodes all he's got is the sword. DB has made rulings in th epast that give them precedent for leaving him with just his sword

The weapons are limited to whatever can be considered his “arsenal.” Other than that he should have all skills and abilities unless it contradicts canon.

DB has disclaimed some early season battle-restrictions saying they haven’t figured it out yet that they need to use everything.

[Knaight]

Death Battles usually restricts characters to tools and abillities that they demonstrate regularly.

Tools, maybe. For abilities though they pull from extreme outliers all the time.