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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by SZbNAhL View Post
    I think Klaus is more making a self-deprecating joke "Gil must have got his likability from his mother because he sure as heck didn't get it from me" than specifically calling Queen ... do we know her name? I'll just call her The Queen of Skif ... than specifically calling The Queen of Skif likable.
    Yeah thats the reading I got from it. And now I wonder, hmmmmm. Thorpe doesnt seem too happy about this. I get the feeling that while she was relatively happy using her own charms to woo gil, the idea of his dad basically forcing the issue disturbs her a bit. Enough to back off? Also, she got strangely unattractive in that last panel. Like she looks like a guy in a wig bad.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Klaus himself were known as a flirt and a heartbreaker in his younger years.
    Likely before the weight of the empire wore him down. The same likely applied to his wife. After all something must have drawn him to her.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Give it up, Klaus. If you try to stand in the way of True Love, you'll just get flattened.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Well that is Klaus, but his reasoning seems a little off here. Like he's making excuses. He certainly knows how to be intimidating though.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    The question I'd ask Klaus in the shell is when exactly he plans on fully removing himself from Gil? If there is no exit clause he explicitly states with a clear delineation (Gil marries someone else / Agatha marries someone else being the best example) then I'd pressure him to make one. I'm not convinced he would give up control of the empire completely. Remember all villains are heroes of their own story.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Klaus originally was supposed to be much more evil than he turned out to be. I am sure that Klaus put a "remove copy app" in Gil's head that can be triggered safely. It could be automatic when certain events occur, namely when the real one is free. While Klaus fights very hard for the Empire, if it came down to choice of Empire or Gil, the Empire will loose every time.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Lucrezia didn't work that way at first when she kept switching with Agatha and Tarvek pretended to help both, neither could remember what the other was up to. Since Agatha has the locket it seems like Lu has gained some abitilty to percieve her surroundings as shown with the incident in Van rijn's lab.

    Also a gestalt is a merger of several entities, so the Klaus overlay is not one.
    Another possibility is that Lucrezia actually was cognizant of her surroundings when Tarvek was trying to pull the wool over her eyes. She may have just pretended not to be. I wouldn't put it past her to play along, as long it benefited her. Especially if she figured she could manipulate him. And if she figured Tarvek was lying to Agatha about wanting to help her.

    Who knows how many layers of deception (and self-deception), Lucrezia is capable of.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Klaus originally was supposed to be much more evil than he turned out to be. I am sure that Klaus put a "remove copy app" in Gil's head that can be triggered safely. It could be automatic when certain events occur, namely when the real one is free. While Klaus fights very hard for the Empire, if it came down to choice of Empire or Gil, the Empire will loose every time.
    Do we know that for certain?
    Klaus does do a lot of things you could call evil. But unfortunately they also just sadly seems to be justified in a lot of cases.
    (for most sparks, brain coring Other is a logical decision)
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    Klaus originally was supposed to be much more evil than he turned out to be. I am sure that Klaus put a "remove copy app" in Gil's head that can be triggered safely. It could be automatic when certain events occur, namely when the real one is free. While Klaus fights very hard for the Empire, if it came down to choice of Empire or Gil, the Empire will loose every time.
    It's also possible this is what Bohrlaikha is for. The copy malfunctions or begins a destructive course of action, our favorite giant female clank turns it off.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by datalaughing View Post
    Anytime Zeetha talks about her mom, we get the impression that she's a strong queen and a great warrior, but I've never gotten any warm and fuzzies off of any of Zeetha's mentions of her.
    What about this?
    Quote Originally Posted by SZbNAhL View Post
    I think Klaus is more making a self-deprecating joke "Gil must have got his likability from his mother because he sure as heck didn't get it from me" than specifically calling Queen ... do we know her name? I'll just call her The Queen of Skif ... than specifically calling The Queen of Skif likable.
    I'm sure Zeetha mentionned her name once, but I don't recall when.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedScholarGypsy View Post
    The question I'd ask Klaus in the shell is when exactly he plans on fully removing himself from Gil? If there is no exit clause he explicitly states with a clear delineation (Gil marries someone else / Agatha marries someone else being the best example) then I'd pressure him to make one. I'm not convinced he would give up control of the empire completely. Remember all villains are heroes of their own story.
    Once the Other is dealt with and the real Klaus is free is the plan, I think.
    Quote Originally Posted by xroads View Post
    Another possibility is that Lucrezia actually was cognizant of her surroundings when Tarvek was trying to pull the wool over her eyes. She may have just pretended not to be. I wouldn't put it past her to play along, as long it benefited her. Especially if she figured she could manipulate him. And if she figured Tarvek was lying to Agatha about wanting to help her.

    Who knows how many layers of deception (and self-deception), Lucrezia is capable of.
    I doubt it.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Many thanks to Assassin 89 for this avatar!

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
    Ah, thank you.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Ah, now I know why this seems a little false to me. This Page. Klaus is worried about any woman who is a spark. And Thorpe is a spark so that makes it a little off that Klaus would be trying to set up Gil with her.

    And doesn't Queen Zantabraxus seem unusually talk in that pick?
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    Ah, now I know why this seems a little false to me. This Page. Klaus is worried about any woman who is a spark. And Thorpe is a spark so that makes it a little off that Klaus would be trying to set up Gil with her.

    And doesn't Queen Zantabraxus seem unusually talk in that pick?
    Klaus stopping to think about it still makes me laugh.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    And doesn't Queen Zantabraxus seem unusually talk in that pick?
    Queen-sized.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    Ah, now I know why this seems a little false to me. This Page. Klaus is worried about any woman who is a spark. And Thorpe is a spark so that makes it a little off that Klaus would be trying to set up Gil with her.

    And doesn't Queen Zantabraxus seem unusually talk in that pick?
    I think Klaus is rationalizing. If Agatha's mother was anyone else he wouldn't have as much of a problem with her. But Lucrezia bested him personally, even before she proved evil incarnate, and so he can neither accept her, nor can he ever admit that he is personally biased in this matter.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    Klaus originally was supposed to be much more evil than he turned out to be. I am sure that Klaus put a "remove copy app" in Gil's head that can be triggered safely. It could be automatic when certain events occur, namely when the real one is free. While Klaus fights very hard for the Empire, if it came down to choice of Empire or Gil, the Empire will loose every time.
    Lots of things but this page in particular does make me think that while Klaus cares a lot for peace and empire, he would probably raze half of Europa himself if it was necessary to save his son.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post

    And doesn't Queen Zantabraxus seem unusually talk in that pick?

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by eee View Post
    Give it up, Klaus. If you try to stand in the way of True Love, you'll just get flattened.
    I wonder; in this world, do people marry for love if you're part of the ruling class?

    Plus I think both Gil and Thorpe are the type of people who would put duty above self. Miss Thorpe would obey her Queen & Gil would just take some convincing. Perhaps if Agatha was caught with Rakethorn or Tarvek, Gil's pride would drive him away.


    Quote Originally Posted by RedScholarGypsy View Post
    Remember all villains are heroes of their own story.
    Klaus was a hero with Bill and Barry. Bill named his son for him. I suspect it was Lucrezia who drove the wedge between them, possible fudging the timeline between her marriage and their affair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
    I think Klaus is rationalizing. If Agatha's mother was anyone else he wouldn't have as much of a problem with her. But Lucrezia bested him personally, even before she proved evil incarnate, and so he can neither accept her, nor can he ever admit that he is personally biased in this matter.
    I don't think it's bias as much as experience learned. A greyhound taken from its parents still runs, a retriever still swims. Mongfish are consistantly evil and Bill & Barry were outliers in their family. What circumstances might drive Agatha to form?
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    Plus I think both Gil and Thorpe are the type of people who would put duty above self.
    Ms Thorpe may be, but Gil definitely isn't. Otherwise he would have married Tweedle's sister already.

    Which makes me wonder, if Klaus has as much influence over Gil as it is now apparent, why the hell did he let him expend so much effort on Mechanicsburg during the timeskip instead of forcing him to take care of the rest of the empire?


    Klaus was a hero with Bill and Barry. Bill named his son for him. I suspect it was Lucrezia who drove the wedge between them, possible fudging the timeline between her marriage and their affair.
    Lucrezia was Klaus's lover before she was Bill's. She sent him off to Skifander, and he didn't return until everyone was gone. We don't know why Barry didn't trust him after he returned, but it can't have been Lucrezia. I suspect time travel shenanigans, and partial future knowledge concerning his wasped status.


    I don't think it's bias as much as experience learned. A greyhound taken from its parents still runs, a retriever still swims. Mongfish are consistantly evil and Bill & Barry were outliers in their family. What circumstances might drive Agatha to form?
    The Heterodyne boys themselves are arguments for nurture triumphing over nature. He should have been able to at least give her a chance to prove herself like her father and uncle. Everyone ruler who knew them was willing to give her that chance, other than Klaus.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    About that...what is Klaus' opinion of the Heterodyne Boys right now? Obviously he worked with them before his enforced trip to Skifander, but when he got back he found Europa in chaos and the Boys gone. Not only had they apparently abandoned the place, but later on he found they'd left a powerful female Spark hidden away to really put the cat among the pigeons. I would be entirely fine with Klaus coming to the conclusion that the "good" Heterodyne Boys was all an act to lull everyone into a false sense of security before they could revert to type and start sowing chaos.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
    Ms Thorpe may be, but Gil definitely isn't. Otherwise he would have married Tweedle's sister already.

    Which makes me wonder, if Klaus has as much influence over Gil as it is now apparent, why the hell did he let him expend so much effort on Mechanicsburg during the timeskip instead of forcing him to take care of the rest of the empire?

    ...
    Maybe it's a lot harder for the overlay to takeover when Gil's in the Spark state? If I remember right, this is the first time post skip that we see him without the sparky voice bubble.
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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Which makes me wonder, if Klaus has as much influence over Gil as it is now apparent, why the hell did he let him expend so much effort on Mechanicsburg during the timeskip instead of forcing him to take care of the rest of the empire?
    Likely because he did not need to? Gil would newer learn to rule on his own if Klaus constantly held his hand.
    And we have gotten signs that something important is still brewing in Mechanisburg.

    About that...what is Klaus' opinion of the Heterodyne Boys right now? Obviously he worked with them before his enforced trip to Skifander, but when he got back he found Europa in chaos and the Boys gone. Not only had they apparently abandoned the place, but later on he found they'd left a powerful female Spark hidden away to really put the cat among the pigeons. I would be entirely fine with Klaus coming to the conclusion that the "good" Heterodyne Boys was all an act to lull everyone into a false sense of security before they could revert to type and start sowing chaos.
    No.. just no.
    They were his friends. He had known them for years. He would know it wasnt an act.
    And they would also not need to lull anyone into any sort of false sense. We already saw the world was vulnerable enough to be taken over by Klaus when he came back.
    They also did not hide a powerful female spark. They hid their daughter/niece with someone who could protect her at her most vulnerable state. Klaus of anyone would respect going to great lenght to care for your child.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    I wonder; in this world, do people marry for love if you're part of the ruling class?

    Plus I think both Gil and Thorpe are the type of people who would put duty above self. Miss Thorpe would obey her Queen & Gil would just take some convincing. Perhaps if Agatha was caught with Rakethorn or Tarvek, Gil's pride would drive him away.
    Seffie tried that argument with Gil, too. A union between the Houses Wulfenbach and Stromvaus/Blitzengaard would have tremendous advantages, strengthen the Empire, and give Gil opportunities to protect Agatha he doesn't have. Gil and/or the Klaus implant admitted her idea was sound.

    It hasn't changed anything. Gil knows what he wants, and logic and political calculation have no place in this.

    Also, while Trelawney may not be adverse to the idea of Gil as a mate, I'm not seeing the 'luv'luv' that would drive her to use every effort to make it real. Seffie has that, and that's why she's dangerous.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
    Lucrezia was Klaus's lover before she was Bill's. She sent him off to Skifander, and he didn't return until everyone was gone. We don't know why Barry didn't trust him after he returned, but it can't have been Lucrezia. I suspect time travel shenanigans, and partial future knowledge concerning his wasped status.
    I think the best theory of why Agatha was hidden (Beatle did know who she was though) was that Lu convinced the Boys (as well as Beatle, Adam and Lilith) that Klaus was the Other. He was conveniently gone at the time after all. The perfect fall guy for her plans.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    I think the best theory of why Agatha was hidden (Beatle did know who she was though) was that Lu convinced the Boys (as well as Beatle, Adam and Lilith) that Klaus was the Other. He was conveniently gone at the time after all. The perfect fall guy for her plans.
    The sequence of events would seem to have been, Lu gave birth to Agatha and left her with the Geisters. Bill and Barry found out about this, raided and trashed the Geisters, and took Agatha and hid her away. This would suggest that, at that point, they knew who the Other was, unless Lu was using masterful misdirection to say she was just a tool and Klaus was the real mastermind. That, however, wouldn't have stood long after the Other attacks stopped, Klaus returned, and started using conventional warfare to slowly expand his empire when there were still Slaver Hives about to be activated.

    IIRC, after Kalus took over Beetleburg and started going through Beetle's papers, he found notes from Beetle and Barry indicating why they didn't trust him anymore. And based on what was in those notes, he fully understood their position. He didn't seem happy about it, either.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
    Which makes me wonder, if Klaus has as much influence over Gil as it is now apparent, why the hell did he let him expend so much effort on Mechanicsburg during the timeskip instead of forcing him to take care of the rest of the empire?
    Because getting Tarvek out legitimely is the best thing he could do to stop the Other?
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by eee View Post
    The sequence of events would seem to have been, Lu gave birth to Agatha and left her with the Geisters. Bill and Barry found out about this, raided and trashed the Geisters, and took Agatha and hid her away. This would suggest that, at that point, they knew who the Other was, unless Lu was using masterful misdirection to say she was just a tool and Klaus was the real mastermind. That, however, wouldn't have stood long after the Other attacks stopped, Klaus returned, and started using conventional warfare to slowly expand his empire when there were still Slaver Hives about to be activated.

    IIRC, after Kalus took over Beetleburg and started going through Beetle's papers, he found notes from Beetle and Barry indicating why they didn't trust him anymore. And based on what was in those notes, he fully understood their position. He didn't seem happy about it, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    I think the best theory of why Agatha was hidden (Beatle did know who she was though) was that Lu convinced the Boys (as well as Beatle, Adam and Lilith) that Klaus was the Other. He was conveniently gone at the time after all. The perfect fall guy for her plans.
    Actually what i think may have happened is that the Other may have used time travel to send a wasped Kluas back in time to attack castle heterodyne. Only the boys saw him during the attack, which is why no one else in mechanicsburg knows about it. This would explain why the boys no longer trusted klaus and why punch and judy were so antagonistic towards him; it was also said that after the attack on the castle, Barry had a very steely demeanor; it might suggest they did not see this as an ordinary attack by an enemy; if it was klaus then that would add an element of treason by a close friend to the attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
    Ms Thorpe may be, but Gil definitely isn't. Otherwise he would have married Tweedle's sister already.

    Which makes me wonder, if Klaus has as much influence over Gil as it is now apparent, why the hell did he let him expend so much effort on Mechanicsburg during the timeskip instead of forcing him to take care of the rest of the empire?
    Well one thing that has been suggested about klaus's overlay is that the strength may be dependent on Gil's condition. After the timeskip we found that Gil was trying his best to avoid sleep as much as possible. Klaus's influence may be related to just how much rest Gil gets

    Also i think klau's influence is limited; like how long he can take over and such is limited. He can pop out to have a short conversation, but keeping gil out of mechanicsburg would require him to control Gil 24/7
    Last edited by slayerx; 2019-01-26 at 12:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Quote Originally Posted by slayerx View Post
    it was also said that after the attack on the castle, Barry had a very steely demeanor; it might suggest they did not see this as an ordinary attack by an enemy; if it was klaus then that would add an element of treason by a close friend to the attack.
    I think it had more to do with the fact that his baby nephew was killed.
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XXV: It needs work! BUT THE CONCEPT IS SOUND!

    Remember klaus is caught in that time bubble as well. No reason not to encourage gil to free him. The time stop was basically meant as a stopgap measure to freeze everyone involved in the huge 15 front war taking place in and around mechanicsburg. The overlay was to make sure gil wasnt being controlled by the other and to calm his people down who were worried about that. I dont think it was meant to be permanent.
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