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2019-07-18, 10:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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2019-07-18, 11:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
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2019-07-18, 11:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
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2019-07-18, 11:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
That's a cool item. Never heard of it before. Since unlike say, primary contact, it doesn't say you can break the cap, you can't. I gather the syllabus also lacks such language, so that's what I'd recommend for that.
Speaking of getting knowledge skills, I'm a fan of keeper of forbidden lore. Maybe not as useful as education, but more flavorful, plus it's an abyssal heritor feat, so can be shuffled once you've gotten what you need from it.I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
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Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2019-07-19, 12:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
Dungeon magazine had a hair razor -- a blade that you tied to your hair and swung around -- that simply added to your total number of attacks per round without any other cost save gold. It was an exotic weapon, but nonproficiency didn't present a drawback to the character, only reduced accuracy on what is essentially a free attack.
Dragon, and especially Dungeon, are problematic for this sort of issue (e.g., the thread topic); the stuff in those periodicals is less well-considered than homebrew tossed onto fansites.
D&D would be a better game if much of its 1st party material had, instead, been well-considered, thoughtful versions of what was in those magazines. I suspect that the Paladins of every alignment from Dragon would have had a better signal-to-noise ratio than the Book of Exalted Deeds. And Warlock truly needed Eldritch Claws (though the Beast Claws combo likely should be addressed).
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2019-07-19, 01:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
On the topic of Dungeon, I've always been kinda fond of the Memelith template from Dungeon #117, page 27, although I haven't found a way to make it actually good.
It's +2 LA (probably), +2 Cha -2 Wis, Deflection bonus to AC equal to Cha modifier, any physical contact, including touch attacks and armed attacks forces a will save against confusion for one round, up to one creature per round. A note on that, it doesn't seem to be optional, so presumably it'll affect the first enemy you hit, and also any allies who cast touch spells on you, your mother when she hugs you, etc. Also, it only affects one creature per round, but it sounds kinda like if you make multiple attacks against that one creature, it needs to make a will save for each one, maybe. Moving on, immunity to all mind-affecting effects, you need to make a DC 15 will save in order to take 10 or 20 to preform an extended task, the DC to use Diplomacy, Intimidate or Sense motive against the memelith is increased by 10, the ability to use any skill untrained, all skills are class skills, add (or subtract) 1d6-3 to all skill checks, and finally, ghost sound, mage hand, and open/close as a 10th-level sorcerer, whatever that means. Probably they're supposed to be at-will SLAs, and not actual spellcasting. Anyway, those three will manifest on their own, unless the memelith makes a DC 10 will save to stop it for 1d6 rounds. I'm pretty sure that means they'll go off when the memelith sleeps, though, so that'll probably be kinda unpleasant for the rest of the party.
There's a ton of stuff there, and it would be really cool to play, I'm just not sure it's actually, y'know, good. Also, LA isn't mentioned in the template description, but the sample memelith has +2 LA, and that's just a human, so I'm guessing that the template was supposed to be +2. It if was +0, then it would be like a way better version or magic-blooded, but I doubt any DM would allow it in that case.
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2019-07-19, 01:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
Yeah, I'm not nuts about all this dragon magazine content in this thread either, but what're you gonna do? Ten years after they stopped publishing official material, it's pretty hard to find obscure first party content, i guess.
D&D would be a better game if much of its 1st party material had, instead, been well-considered, thoughtful versions of what was in those magazines. I suspect that the Paladins of every alignment from Dragon would have had a better signal-to-noise ratio than the Book of Exalted Deeds. And Warlock truly needed Eldritch Claws (though the Beast Claws combo likely should be addressed).
content: stump knife. requires losing or cutting off your hand, but very useful for critfishers. like a wealth of obscure dross, it lurks in aeg.I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
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2019-07-19, 01:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
That's true - but there is still the occasional nugget to be found. Usually an online article, in an adventure, or in a rulebook in an odd section where you wouldn't expect to find it.
Case in point: D&D Adventures: A List of obscure 1st party sourcesLast edited by Thurbane; 2019-07-19 at 01:55 AM.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
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2019-07-19, 01:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
Oh, absolutely. I'd never heard of the codex anathema, for example, despite having many parts of lords of madness basically memorized. on that subject, lords of madness's slavery rules. there's cause to cite them with surprising frequency.
cold iron warrior's already been mentioned, and as questionable as the qc was on the online articles, the fey features as a whole were pretty cool.
occasionally I wake up in a cold sweat and fear that ballisteer will be the new ingredient for iron chef, but every time, I've been wrong.I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
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2019-07-19, 02:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
It's weird actually...I started a personal project a while ago where I was trying to hunt down weird PrC abilities. It was largely for things like "practicing optimizing stuff that's garbage but has some gems", as well as getting good ammunition if there's ever a game where I can snipe abilities from around the whole edition. It's nowhere near complete, else I'd probably just make it its own thread and just link to the thread, but here's a few highlights from what I've looked through so far:
Originally Posted by Unsung Oddities (a reference thread that doesn't exist yet)Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2019-07-19 at 02:41 AM.
Currently Running WW/Mafia: flat_footed's Fallout 3: Forecast--Rapidly Changing Conditions
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2019-07-19, 02:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
I like Psion Uncarnate. Gives you incorporeality as a class ability that improves throughout the class's life, including the ability to make your gear incorporeal, and the level 10 capstone is that you can always be incorporeal. You can also do melee touch attack damage (up to 3d6 per touch attack at level 9) while incorporeal.
Still trying to figure out a way to really make use of the class and its ability.
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2019-07-19, 02:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
Well, that thread sounds like it'll be a blast. I can't wait to post in it whenever you get around to uploading it.
the spider breath
arcanopath dope slap
I cooked for death delver iron chef. I literally forgot it had this ability. I've never even heard of anyone who played with massive damage rules. Any competent player or monster is dealing 50+ damage with every attack at mid levels.
I think mindsee might dethrone master inquisitive's "roleplaying you have to pay for" as most worthless class feature. Your superpower that you have to pay class levels for is... remembering things. Sometimes. A little.
daidoji bodyguard leaves me dumbstruck. did they want you to like, put your enemies in really heavy armor somehow? is that a power you have?Last edited by Venger; 2019-07-19 at 02:20 AM.
I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
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2019-07-19, 02:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
Spoiler: Oh and as far as weird spells go...This isn't part of that same guide, that's just PrCs, but these have stuck in my mind from years chargening.
Originally Posted by Undulant Innards (Lords Of Madness)
Originally Posted by That Art Thou (Oriental Adventures)
Originally Posted by Brittleskin (Shining South)
It's been...slow-going. Y'know how it goes, passion grabs you one day and leaves you bored the next so you only get like a sixth of the way into things...
Yeah, I can't imagine that Death Delver ability was very lauded in that IC round. PCs are usually either playing games where they don't expect to get CdG'd, or they are and they take precautions...and those precautions are useful for more than just "don't get my throat slit while I'm sleeping" so even taking this class isn't useful just for the pleasure of not sleeping in the Rope Trick, and that's about the only time I'd expect to get CdG'd in most games. But maybe you're facing some kinda creature that hands CdGs out like candy. In fact, the lead-in to the guide calls out the not-infrequent epic X-stalt circle-jerk game that pops up here ITP, and in those kinds of games, sniping this ability to have Ex immunity to CdGs because the DM might well throw a Hypermundane at you and you need a defense against Heroic Killing Blows. Outside of that, it's...just another one of those "immunities I sniped just to make my list of immunities longer". And yeah, most any game you use this in you won't have to worry about death from massive damage - either you took the class straight cuz it's a low-op game and nobody deals enough damage to trigger it, or it's high-op and you sniped it, and the DM turned that rule off cuz it'd just make for a lot of tedious rolling that won't end up mattering no matter how it turns out.
See, I think Mindsee has some value. Yeah, mostly if a player says "I want to see how much my PC remembers", it's a simple Int-check away, and usually not a very hard one. But getting the level of detail described by the ability without having to make any kind of roll is pretty nice...especially if you can combine it with divinations that let you extend your visual senses elsewhere. That it basically can't be taken away from you is also pretty nice. It's still definitely a niche ability though.
Daidoji Bodyguard is maybe a little useful in like...one situation that's worth mentioning. The bonus given is a dodge bonus, so it applies to Touch AC, but it's only really useful against opponents wearing heavy armor that haven't reduced it. While this is obviously intended for facing down a small army of warriors who could afford full plate but not mithril full plate, it's greater value is going to be in facing Bad Touch caster builds that prefer heavier armor. Clerics who aren't shooting their attack bonus into the stratosphere, warmages in heavy who ignore the ASF but not the ACP and spam energy orbs at you, handsy bards who think they're paladins of sexual freedom...
...it's an edge case, but at least I can say that the ability isn't worthless because it makes some casters have a lot harder time fighting you, and that's not nothing.
Currently Running WW/Mafia: flat_footed's Fallout 3: Forecast--Rapidly Changing Conditions
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2019-07-19, 03:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
undulent innards is pretty interesting, but 3rd is too expensive.
What the hell is a brahmin? I've never even heard of that class before. Well done. pretty good spell, too. I assume it's a divine class?
brittleskin is a fascinating if utterly worthless spell. anything with good na, like a troll or dinosaur or whatever, is gonna have a huge fort save, so you're not going to waste your time casting fortneg crap on them. you're going to target ref with a status or zap them with ray of stupidity. there is no situation where this is the best response.
in my experience, both as a gm and a player, when someone says "oh yeah, we tell him about that guy we met, the one with the beard and what he found in the journal. you know who I mean" the gm will just say "yeah, it's only been an hour from your character's pov, Urik was his name. you fill in the king on what you've learned." I've never even heard of someone calling for a character int-check based on a player's bad memory or lack of note-taking skills. I'm sure it happens, though. it's certainly flavorful, i'll give you that
a gm sending a huge battalion of guards with mithral fullplate is the adamantine door problem writ large. I hope all my gms do that. who needs to adventure when the loot just waddles right up to you? generally, touch-based casters don't want to engage physically being casters and will use familiars, spectral hands, etc, but if you're fighting a suel arcanamach or something weird, I guess it could help you. I hope you have your wand of mage burr handy.I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
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2019-07-19, 03:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
I'm not surprised you haven't heard of it, because it only very technically exists. You see, "Oriental Adventures" kinda addresses the problem that it's a "Asia-ish" setting book, and Asia is kinda...big. So some of the classes in the book have alternate names for the three "Oriental" cultures the book is concerned with: Chinese-ish, Japanese-ish, and Indian-ish. "Brahmin" is the Indian-ish alternate name for the OA Shaman class. Oh but it gets even better, because That Art Thou isn't even actually in Oriental Adventures, it's in a web enhancement campaign setting that, among other things, introduces two new
ShamanBrahmin domains and one new spell, which is specific to the Brahmin domain "Meditation", which is different from the cleric domain "Meditation". In any case, Clerics and...whatever you choose to call that class with the "Shaman" entry in OA can't swap domains between each other.
...which makes "That Art Thou" a setting-specific web enhancement one-class-only spell. And it's an amazing spell.
brittleskin is a fascinating if utterly worthless spell. anything with good na, like a troll or dinosaur or whatever, is gonna have a huge fort save, so you're not going to waste your time casting fortneg crap on them. you're going to target ref with a status or zap them with ray of stupidity. there is no situation where this is the best response.Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2019-07-19 at 03:44 AM.
Currently Running WW/Mafia: flat_footed's Fallout 3: Forecast--Rapidly Changing Conditions
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2019-07-19, 04:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
prc
Not sure if it's obscure but with Conjuration being my favorite school i have to say Malconvoker. Plus everyone is aware of the incantatrix so it's definitely not obscure anymore.
feat
Poison Spell; Fell Drain may be better but i still love it. Plus you can potentially use it with positoxins to be able to affect undead.
spell
A metamagically enhanced Cloud of knives; invisible+Percistant+Fell Drain.
item
knowstones; Practically the Sorcerer's Spell Scroll. Great for balancing out the Sorcerer with the Wizard.
There's also the Slippers of Battledancing+Gloves of Heartfelt Blows to add an extra instance of you Cha Mod to Attack/Damage with a Decastave/Thunderlance; With a bit of investment turn your mage into a great Gish.
race
Spellscales; Not only Dragonic but you also get a low investment huge bonus to Spellcraft.Last edited by Asmotherion; 2019-07-19 at 04:05 AM.
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2019-07-19, 04:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-07-19, 04:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
Last edited by PraxisVetli; 2019-07-19 at 07:13 AM.
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2019-07-19, 04:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
One of these days I'm going to build an Artificer whose purpose in life is creating the swankiest ship ever.
Lightning Turbine: from the Arms & Equipment Guide. Doubles the speed of any vehicle it's attached to in a storm (or brings it up to 90ft, whichever is greater).
Lightning Ballista: from Heroes of Battle. Instead of normal ammo, fires a line of lightning. The once per minute limitation handicaps its usefulness, but in a storm it can fire every other round...
Stormship: from one of the Eberron books (I think it was Explorer's?); not too obscure, but often passed over in favor of the other elemental vehicles. It's fast, durable, relatively maneuverable, causes random lightning strikes around itself that the captain can direct... and it creates a constant storm around itself.
Combine the three and you end up with an absurdly fast vehicle that spews AOE lightning effects. Add on a Cloud Keel or an Earth Keel (both also from AEG) to become all terrain.Originally Posted by Darths & DroidsOptimization Trophies
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2019-07-19, 05:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
Oh yeah it's a lovely spell for just being impossible to catch off-guard. Setting up a flank becomes even more of a pain than it normally is because the flankers have to be flanked themselves...well I guess not necessary if they're both somehow using 30 ft reach weapons (maybe flanked by colossal creatures?). But for most situations PCs find themselves in, it more or less necessitates a 15-person line alternating between sides with you in the middle.
Currently Running WW/Mafia: flat_footed's Fallout 3: Forecast--Rapidly Changing Conditions
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2019-07-19, 08:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
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2019-07-19, 09:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
A wand of that art thou would be gold to anyone with high umd, especially a warlock.
Wow the ballister kind of leaves arcane archer crying in the corner.
This is pre3rd but I like the Sentinel npc class from dragon magazine. It was a guard that could actually see sneaky bad guys coming. These days an urban ranger could probably mimic it well enough.
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2019-07-19, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
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2019-07-19, 09:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
Oh Gods, please no. Anything that even references psionic combat should be scrubbed from existence. It's the only way we'll ever move on from the shame of the original 3.0 Psionics Handbook.
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2019-07-19, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
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2019-07-19, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
I made a ballisteer once. It works on a human. Death attacks from a mile away!
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2019-07-19, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
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2019-07-19, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2019-07-19, 01:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.
So you're saying the version you quoted was not actually from a D&D book but rather from another totally separate d20 system book. How does that even count? It's kind of like asking why nobody ever mentions the HK G3 assault rifle from d20 Modern or the Force Sensitive feat from d20 Star Wars. Except it's even further from canon than that, because those were at least 1st party supplements for alternative systems, whereas Rokugan Campaign Setting isn't even from Wizards of the Coast, and it's a piece of content that already has an official version that should supersede the 3rd party version due to primary source rules (and having the more recent 3.5 update).
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