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Old 05-24-2007, 02:27 PM   #31
Thoughtbot360
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Default Re: Lv. 1 with 27 AC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulgosh View Post
Be a fighter or cleric.
If you're a cleric be sure to pick up the magic domain so you can buy scrolls of mage armor and a 1st-level wand of shield for more cheesiness. Also studded leather armor is at least, a good temporary solution until you can afford masterwork armor.


Quote:
Here come the swarm of two-word responses

Nat 20.
Magic Missile.
Brilliant Energy.
Pit Trap.
Climb Check.
Jump Check.
Swim Check.
Repel Metal
Shocking Grasp.
Ethereal Creature.
*watches as Vulgosh is riddled with machine gun bullets, and each bullet inscribed with the words Nat 20, Magic Missile, Pit Trap, etc....*
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Last edited by Thoughtbot360 : 05-24-2007 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 05-24-2007, 02:31 PM   #32
Roderick_BR
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Default Re: Lv. 1 with 27 AC.

Drop the dodge feat and be a first level rogue. That way you can survive fights because you don't want to fight.
Really, I have a friend that keeps making impossible to hit rogues.
I tell him "but you won't be hitting anything with it"
And he always replies "I'm a rogue, I want to ESCAPE from the battle"
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Old 05-24-2007, 03:27 PM   #33
Person_Man
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Default Re: Lv. 1 with 27 AC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpatulaOfDoom View Post
Counters to your kobold

Level 1 human barbarian with improved grapple grabs your kobold and strangles him to death.

Level 1 Orc barbarian with 22str 26 when raging and the reckless offense feat and a flaw for weapon focus. +11 to attack normaly +13 when charging. He may still have a harder time hitting you than you hitting him but it'll be a one shot kill if he does and you'll probably have to hit him 3 or more times to take him down (small size, -4 str, and Str obviously isn't your primary stat)
So, whoever wins Initiative wins combat, pretty much like the rest of D&D. Though with high Dex, the Kobold would have a slight edge on that.
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Old 05-24-2007, 05:53 PM   #34
Diggorian
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Default Re: Lv. 1 with 27 AC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elliott20 View Post
they do stack.

according to the RAW, dodge bonuses always stack. And since fighting defensively and combat expertise both offer that kind of bonus, they stack.
You had me here. Yeah, they'll stack. I think Expertise should really provide a competence bonus given the nature of the feat. It'll still stack with fight defensive, but I dont care enough to houserule it.

Was mainly surprised I didnt realize it with my high AC tank PC. That's another +2 on AC he needs.
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Old 05-24-2007, 06:09 PM   #35
PerpetualNewb
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Default Re: Lv. 1 with 27 AC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoughtbot360 View Post
If you're a cleric be sure to pick up the magic domain so you can buy scrolls of mage armor and a 1st-level wand of shield for more cheesiness. Also studded leather armor is at least, a good temporary solution until you can afford masterwork armor.
Mage Armor provides an Armor Bonus. I didn't think it would stack with the Armor Bonus granted by the armor you'd be wearing as a Cleric...
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Old 05-29-2007, 03:50 AM   #36
Armads
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Default Re: Lv. 1 with 27 AC.

How about this
Kobold Binder 1 (with the weird vestige that lets you call full plate) and a tower shield, using total defense
Base: 10
Size modifier: +1
Armor bonus: +8
Shield bonus: +4
Dex modifier: +1
Dodge Target: +1
Nat armor: +1
Total Defense: +4

AC: 30
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Old 05-29-2007, 11:30 AM   #37
Vulgosh
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Default Re: Lv. 1 with 27 AC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armads View Post
How about this
Kobold Binder 1 (with the weird vestige that lets you call full plate) and a tower shield, using total defense
Base: 10
Size modifier: +1
Armor bonus: +8
Shield bonus: +4
Dex modifier: +1
Dodge Target: +1
Nat armor: +1
Total Defense: +4

AC: 30
The idea was to make a level one character with high AC and to have Full plate you would probably be need to be higher level.
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Old 05-29-2007, 11:38 AM   #38
Arbitrarity
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Default Re: Lv. 1 with 27 AC.

He called the full plate with a vestige. It's temporary and free.
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Old 05-29-2007, 11:40 AM   #39
Behold_the_Void
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Default Re: Lv. 1 with 27 AC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulgosh View Post
The idea was to make a level one character with high AC and to have Full plate you would probably be need to be higher level.
But the Binder Vestige gives it to him at level one, supposedly, so I don't see the problem.
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Old 05-29-2007, 12:25 PM   #40
fangthane
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Default Re: Lv. 1 with 27 AC.

One word with respect to the AC cheese...

Stirges.

Touch attack +7.

Stirges would suck the kobold dry. Or wait until he's leveled and send a Vargouille at him. Lousy hit points they may have, but his will save's not so hot either.
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Old 05-29-2007, 12:40 PM   #41
JungeonJeff
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Default Re: Lv. 1 with 27 AC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
Here's a superior Kobold melee build:

Level 1 Barbarian

Use the variant racial rules for kobolds (get 2 claws and a bite attack)

Use Ferocity rage variant (+4 Str and +4 Dex when in Rage) or Whirling Frenzy (extra attack).

Use Pounce variant from Complete Champion (sacrificing Fast Movement for it).

Feats: Touch of Golden Ice: Evil enemies must Save or take 1d4 Dex damage whenever you hit them with a natural weapon. Dragon Tail (gain tail attack), you need to take a Flaw though.

Your AC will be decent. You'll make 4 or 5 attacks, including a full attack at the end of a charge.

At high levels, follow the Power Attack tree, remembering that Power Attack applies to all natural weapons. Stay in full BAB classes. Buy grafts or use class abilities/spells to get more natural attacks. Take Improved Multi-Attack so that your secondary natural attacks have a -0 modifier.

Deadly from low levels, staying competitive in any setting up until the time your full caster friends get spells that can kill you or stop you in one round.

You don't need high AC if your enemies are dead. You just need respectable AC and hit points. No combat should last more then 1 round per enemy divided by the number of PC's.
Nice build (although my GM would hit me for using that many variants), but it strikes me odd to have a Kobold thats Chaotic Good! -I mean, arnt they suppossed to be Lawful Evil? -I know "going against the flow" can make an interesting character, but isnt this a bit much :P
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Old 05-29-2007, 12:44 PM   #42
Helgraf
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Default Re: Lv. 1 with 27 AC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerpetualNewb View Post
Mage Armor provides an Armor Bonus. I didn't think it would stack with the Armor Bonus granted by the armor you'd be wearing as a Cleric...
In fact, this is correct. Mage Armor does not stack with any other armor bonus (such as real armor, or bracers of armor, or even the psionic power that gives an armor bonus).

And Shield won't stack if you're already getting a shield bonus from, say, a shield.

In both cases you'll only get the better of the two bonuses.
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Old 05-29-2007, 01:57 PM   #43
Person_Man
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Default Re: Lv. 1 with 27 AC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JungeonJeff View Post
Nice build (although my GM would hit me for using that many variants), but it strikes me odd to have a Kobold thats Chaotic Good! -I mean, arnt they suppossed to be Lawful Evil? -I know "going against the flow" can make an interesting character, but isnt this a bit much :P
Kobolds are only "usually" Lawful Evil. But its pretty common for PC's to play Drizzt like Chaotic Good characters that rebel against their Evil societies, to the point where its a cliche, and the truly "original" PC's will actually play the suggested alignment of their races.

On variants, I would simply say that full casters are so much more powerful then melee builds, that I pretty much allow anything for them. "Wow, your Barbarian has Pounce. My core only Wizard can kill everyone on the battlefield while standing a football field away. So obviously, you're Barbarian is overpowered."

Last edited by Person_Man : 05-29-2007 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 05-29-2007, 07:36 PM   #44
JungeonJeff
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Default Re: Lv. 1 with 27 AC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
Kobolds are only "usually" Lawful Evil. But its pretty common for PC's to play Drizzt like Chaotic Good characters that rebel against their Evil societies, to the point where its a cliche, and the truly "original" PC's will actually play the suggested alignment of their races.
Hear hear! -half our table are usually "exile's" of some sort, which gets... well at least you would think.. -old, at some point.

Quote:
On variants, I would simply say that full casters are so much more powerful then melee builds, that I pretty much allow anything for them. "Wow, your Barbarian has Pounce. My core only Wizard can kill everyone on the battlefield while standing a football field away. So obviously, you're Barbarian is overpowered."
The forum(s) seems to be leaning towards melee'er lacking against spellcasters, and I can see why, and therefor im happy our little group almost never plays super-paranoid spellcaster, with knowledge of every spell in every book ;). This makes, the normally good argument, a bit ineffective at our table. But leaving out rage-vaiants, I would sure still try and fir in the Tiger/Wolf Totem variant in most Barbarian containing build.
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:07 PM   #45
Laurellien
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Default Re: Lv. 1 with 27 AC.

Play a Germlaine instead, they're tiny.
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:03 PM   #46
FdL
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Default Re: Lv. 1 with 27 AC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seffbasilisk View Post
Here come the swarm of two-word responses

Nat 20.
Magic Missile.
Brilliant Energy.
Pit Trap.
Climb Check.
Jump Check.
Swim Check.
Repel Metal
Shocking Grasp.
Ethereal Creature.
Better yet, but encompassing all those: two letter response: DM.
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:11 PM   #47
Laurellien
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Default Re: Lv. 1 with 27 AC.

Touch spells and area effect spells will own you. As will save or sucks like sleep.
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