Okay, so on the Ninja side, we have Storm Shadow, Snake Eyes, All four Ninja Turtles, a decent Rogue replacement class, and Ryu Hyabusa. For Samurai, we have Samurai Jack, the worst D&D class in existence, and a totally lame superhero wearing a green bikini. Despite Samurai Jack's awesomeness, I have to go with Ninja.
Go rent "American Ninja" then come back with an example of a Samurai whose more lame then that.
You forgot to add Immature Radiactive Samurai Slugs to the Samurai list. (See WB Tiny Toons....)
After thinkg, I will argue that the turtles are not Ninja's, but actually mis-labled Samarai.
Batman is definitely a Ninja - he's in it for himself (or rather avenging his parents death).....but Superman is a Samarai, he could fly away, but his honor keeps him protecting Earth .
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It wasn't that easy. Supagoof's just that good.
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Summary: Supagoof has won the game and withdrawn. He was Epic
America at it's very core is samurai!
(Note: We will exclude Cap as of lately with the civil war story arc, because those stupid writers ruined several huge characters by tottaly molesting thier personalities and turning them into something they weren't. Cap isn't a fascist, but he would deffinitely have been pro-registration had he been written correctly. He let himself be a gunnie pig to science, you think he wouldn't see the upsides to this bill?!)
All good points Koga, but let me add that there are also rouge samurai, who can do whatever they want, but not much in the payment cattagory. And Samurai concentraited their skills on a single weapon, and focussing all your energy onto a smaller cattagory instead of trying to master countless weapons, like ninjas, always brings better results.
All hail the SAMURAI!!!
And the reason most of the good characters are ninjas and not samurai is because not only are ninjas just better known because they are so common, but ninja is a much shorter name than samurai, giving it better commercial value. Also, because a ninja can use a bigger assortment of weapons, you could make any japanese fighting character and call him a ninja. It's just not a very exclusive field.
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Pirates are just all around bad guys. I'd never vote for them, but could you give a reason you vote ninja?
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Darkness, it is all consuming nothingness, the absence of all light, keeping people from seeing the truth, and leaving them blind to the future. But in times of darkness, the smallest light can spread, and bring life to all of its surroundings. And though this light may be immersed in darkness, one day, it will break through. And though sometimes, the line between the two may be almost nonexistent, light will always prevail.
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Darkness, it is all consuming nothingness, the absence of all light, keeping people from seeing the truth, and leaving them blind to the future. But in times of darkness, the smallest light can spread, and bring life to all of its surroundings. And though this light may be immersed in darkness, one day, it will break through. And though sometimes, the line between the two may be almost nonexistent, light will always prevail.
And souls as shallow as a puddle.
Their unfocussed abilities clouds their minds. In every instance, unless the ninja is pulling a totally dishonorable assassination sneak attack, a samurai can take out many ninjas before they get him.
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Darkness, it is all consuming nothingness, the absence of all light, keeping people from seeing the truth, and leaving them blind to the future. But in times of darkness, the smallest light can spread, and bring life to all of its surroundings. And though this light may be immersed in darkness, one day, it will break through. And though sometimes, the line between the two may be almost nonexistent, light will always prevail.
In every instance, unless the ninja is pulling a totally dishonorable assassination sneak attack, a samurai can take out many ninjas before they get him.
The problem is .. 95% of Ninja would use that attack.
Nija's rule!!!!!
All they would need to do is slip some poison in the samurai's meal and-
Hehehe.
even if ninja's couldn't beat samurais, they would still be WAY cooler.
Belkar for life!
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Oh you poor dark evil soul. Do you see not ther error of your dishonorable ways? ******* SNEAK ATTACKS ARE SOOO ******* RETARTED!!!!!!!! I mean sure they get their job done, but with now style, honor, or skill! Any moron can poison someone or slit their throught behind their back. It's just a sucker punch!!! It's as bad as what those ******* Terrorists did on that fateful day of September 11th. *plays patriotic music* And I refuse to dishonor myself, and my country by supporting the same kind of evil that has harmed us so brutally and heartlessly! WHO'S WITH ME?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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Darkness, it is all consuming nothingness, the absence of all light, keeping people from seeing the truth, and leaving them blind to the future. But in times of darkness, the smallest light can spread, and bring life to all of its surroundings. And though this light may be immersed in darkness, one day, it will break through. And though sometimes, the line between the two may be almost nonexistent, light will always prevail.
Oh you poor dark evil soul. Do you see not ther error of your dishonorable ways? ******* SNEAK ATTACKS ARE SOOO ******* RETARTED!!!!!!!! I mean sure they get their job done, but with now style, honor, or skill! Any moron can poison someone or slit their throught behind their back. It's just a sucker punch!!! It's as bad as what those ******* Terrorists did on that fateful day of September 11th. *plays patriotic music* And I refuse to dishonor myself, and my country by supporting the same kind of evil that has harmed us so brutally and heartlessly! WHO'S WITH ME?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
((Hey dude might wanna cut down on the swearing, and use of the word retarted, also try to avoid posting on threads older than six weeks, which are on page three, or further back.))
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Although ninja's have an awesome entry about them, samurai have my vote. They just look so much more badass in armour than some wispy little Japanese man floating around.
Oh you poor dark evil soul. Do you see not ther error of your dishonorable ways? ******* SNEAK ATTACKS ARE SOOO ******* RETARTED!!!!!!!! I mean sure they get their job done, but with now style, honor, or skill! Any moron can poison someone or slit their throught behind their back. It's just a sucker punch!!! It's as bad as what those ******* Terrorists did on that fateful day of September 11th. *plays patriotic music* And I refuse to dishonor myself, and my country by supporting the same kind of evil that has harmed us so brutally and heartlessly! WHO'S WITH ME?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Uh... What the heck are you trying to say?
Whatever it is, you're giving your namesake a bad name.
i plotted out a fight between a medium level samurai and a medium level ninja [dnd] the samurai never saw it coming. he would put up a great fight against someone without run by shot and a rediculous hide check [ninjas get their extra damage as long as their target is flat footed and within thirty feet. yay short bow]. and even if the ninja got caught, he can still do his ninja thing [i forget the name] to get a sneak attack every round. now toe to toe, the samurai outdamages the ninja because of the very nice two weapon fighting feats inherent to his class and the fact that he uses a bastard sword and shortsword [katana and wakizashi] as weapons just means its gonna be pretty messy for the ninja if he goes toe to toe. but that isnt what ninjas do. now, this is all in archetypal dnd setup with allowances for cultural stigma. i vote ninja, because he is sneaky and knows how to hit where it hurts. every round. without flanking.
Last edited by phantomhermit : 06-08-2007 at 05:18 PM.
Srry if I was confusing some people, that post I just decided to go on a rant about nothing in relation to anything. But back on topic, the only reason a ninja could ever beat a samurai is because they sneak up on them and stab them when they aren't looking or something. Where's the honor in that? How is that cool??? Any coward can hit someone with their back turned. I mean honestly. Also the ninjas were cheaper to hire than samurai. Samurai were the real threat on the battlefield. Ninjas were only hired for mainly assassinations and sneak attacks, and although they are essential, individually I find them dishonorable and weak cowards. Also in comparing their codes of honor, the samurai lived and died by their set code of honor. The ninjas basicly made up their own and decided if they wanted to live by it or not, only further showing the ninja's lack of commitment and honor. I'm not saying ninjas are just plain bad, but I deffinutely preffer samurai, and I can't see how every single poll about samurai vs ninja, ninjas are winning. Perhaps it's because only a few know who the samurai truely were. Honestly it's easy to get stuff about ninjas, I had to do a lot of research to get what I know about samurai.
And for sxamples of great TV samurai:
The Last Samurai
Samurai 7
(I've never seen but it looks cool for all the following)
Samurai Champloo
Samurai X
Samurai Deeper Kyo
Afro Samurai
The list goes on. Just a little comment on all the listings of how there are cooler ninjas on TV than samurai.
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Darkness, it is all consuming nothingness, the absence of all light, keeping people from seeing the truth, and leaving them blind to the future. But in times of darkness, the smallest light can spread, and bring life to all of its surroundings. And though this light may be immersed in darkness, one day, it will break through. And though sometimes, the line between the two may be almost nonexistent, light will always prevail.
Srry if I was confusing some people, that post I just decided to go on a rant about nothing in relation to anything. But back on topic, the only reason a ninja could ever beat a samurai is because they sneak up on them and stab them when they aren't looking or something. Where's the honor in that? How is that cool??? Any coward can hit someone with their back turned. I mean honestly. Also the ninjas were cheaper to hire than samurai. Samurai were the real threat on the battlefield. Ninjas were only hired for mainly assassinations and sneak attacks, and although they are essential, individually I find them dishonorable and weak cowards. Also in comparing their codes of honor, the samurai lived and died by their set code of honor. The ninjas basicly made up their own and decided if they wanted to live by it or not, only further showing the ninja's lack of commitment and honor. I'm not saying ninjas are just plain bad, but I deffinutely preffer samurai, and I can't see how every single poll about samurai vs ninja, ninjas are winning. Perhaps it's because only a few know who the samurai truely were. Honestly it's easy to get stuff about ninjas, I had to do a lot of research to get what I know about samurai.
It is true that Samurai stick by their honour code. However, I can also see when sometimes it is a bad thing. Sometimes History doesn't need shepherds, it needs butchers . Also, individually Samurai are useless. They are soldiers, and a single soldier by his lonesome is soon a very dead soldier. It seems that you dislike Ninja for the same reasons why some people dislike crossbowmen: that a relatively weak person could take out a Knight, who had a lifetime of training. Fair'nuff.
However, I must respectfully disagree with some of your points. For one: it is not as easy as you make it out to be to *sneak up on someone and stab them when they aren't looking*. In fact, I could reverse the statement, and say that the only way Samurai could ever beat someone is to hit them really hard, as opposed to the Ninja, who kills people stronger than him with skill and finesse.
Also, you say that it is easy to find information about Ninja, as opposed to Samurai. On the contrary, Samurai had a clearly defined logical function in Japanese society, they were Knights, Feudal Lords, and the ruling class. Their role was to follow the Emperor's orders, obey the code of Bushido, and to rule over the peasants. However, the role of the Ninja is a muddied mess, and noone seems to know if they were assassins, spies, skilled commoners, or specially trained members of the Samurai Caste.
Quote:
And for sxamples of great TV samurai:
The Last Samurai
Samurai 7
(I've never seen but it looks cool for all the following)
Samurai Champloo
Samurai X
Samurai Deeper Kyo
Afro Samurai
The list goes on. Just a little comment on all the listings of how there are cooler ninjas on TV than samurai.
No. Just no. An anime representation is in no way an accurate representation of a Samurai. Real Samurai were not in possession of Vibro-katanas, which could cut through spaceship hulls. Neither did real samurai fight to a hip-hop tune. Just as I won't bring up Naruto and other retarded things like that when talking about ninjas, you should not bring up horribly caricatured and misrepresented Samurai from Popular culture.
*deepbreath*
Plus, half of the Samurai from your list don't even follow your concept of what a Samurai is. The representation of the Civil War following the Meiji Restoration in Last Samurai is horribly inaccurate. Samurai were men of status and authority, they would not have "made a last stand against the Imperial Army", they would have had an army of their own. Kenshin is an assassin. He follows no code of conduct, he simply kills, without thought and without mercy. Kanbei is by no definition an honourable person. And as for the people from Samurai Champloo, lets just say that you don't watch an anime which mixes beatdancing with Feudal Japan for its historical accuracy, okay?
No. Just no. An anime representation is in no way an accurate representation of a Samurai. Real Samurai were not in possession of Vibro-katanas, which could cut through spaceship hulls. Neither did real samurai fight to a hip-hop tune. Just as I won't bring up Naruto and other retarded things like that when talking about ninjas, you should not bring up horribly caricatured and misrepresented Samurai from Popular culture.
*deepbreath*
Plus, half of the Samurai from your list don't even follow your concept of what a Samurai is. The representation of the Civil War following the Meiji Restoration in Last Samurai is horribly inaccurate. Samurai were men of status and authority, they would not have "made a last stand against the Imperial Army", they would have had an army of their own. Kenshin is an assassin. He follows no code of conduct, he simply kills, without thought and without mercy. Kanbei is by no definition an honourable person. And as for the people from Samurai Champloo, lets just say that you don't watch an anime which mixes beatdancing with Feudal Japan for its historical accuracy, okay?
I don't believe anyone was saying that the anime of either Ninja or Samurai was accurate, but they are using it to provide validity in the statement that such a thing is cooler.
Like art. Nobody would agree that the paintings on the ceiling of the Sistine chapel are in fact accurate snapshots of heaven and the afterlife, but they would agree that beauty depicted on the paintings is heavenly and a masterpiece of art. Much in the same way all the pop references listed so far to ninja and samarai are cool, not accurate, pending on ones point of view. It is a much broader sense of looking at why each of us feels whether ninja or samurai is cooler. Not historically accurate by any means, but a valid base on which to derive our opinions at
In my opinion, Samurai Champloo is just plain cool (Hip hop + swordplay = c'mon!) and thus another reason for my personal weighing of Ninja vs. Samurai on the scales is tilted towards the Samurai.
Then again, I like Cowboy Bebop for it's fusion of Jazz and Space Cowboys, but that's just me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex-kat
It wasn't that easy. Supagoof's just that good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow
This is LLD, which, I shouldn't have to tell you, will not bow to your math because it was DESIGNED to ruin it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murska
Summary: Supagoof has won the game and withdrawn. He was Epic
It is true that Samurai stick by their honour code. However, I can also see when sometimes it is a bad thing. Sometimes History doesn't need shepherds, it needs butchers . Also, individually Samurai are useless. They are soldiers, and a single soldier by his lonesome is soon a very dead soldier.
Correction: Every single samurai is his own army. Every single one of them trained their whole lifetime in the way of the sword (Bushido) and were (in my opinion) the best close combat sword fighters that ever walked this earth. Their sole purpuse for the last 400 years was war. They trained in sole as well as multi-combat and were more than capable of defending themselves from an attack of multiple opponents. If you are reffering to their defence against rifles and other ranged weapons, then yes.. it would kill them (it was eventually the influence of American and European guns that were brought to Japan that ended the age of samurai), but if you are reffering to close combat - each samurai would kill a lot of soldiers on his own. Their power was not in numbers, but in skill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemician
No. Just no. An anime representation is in no way an accurate representation of a Samurai. Real Samurai were not in possession of Vibro-katanas, which could cut through spaceship hulls. Neither did real samurai fight to a hip-hop tune. Just as I won't bring up Naruto and other retarded things like that when talking about ninjas, you should not bring up horribly caricatured and misrepresented Samurai from Popular culture.
*deepbreath*
Plus, half of the Samurai from your list don't even follow your concept of what a Samurai is. The representation of the Civil War following the Meiji Restoration in Last Samurai is horribly inaccurate. Samurai were men of status and authority, they would not have "made a last stand against the Imperial Army", they would have had an army of their own. Kenshin is an assassin. He follows no code of conduct, he simply kills, without thought and without mercy. Kanbei is by no definition an honourable person. And as for the people from Samurai Champloo, lets just say that you don't watch an anime which mixes beatdancing with Feudal Japan for its historical accuracy, okay?
Oh and I think Iesu was reffering to what other people in this topic were talking about. I think that half of this topic is based on anime samurai/ninjas, which I agree has no real picture of what a real samurai/ninja is.
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I have no sword; I make No Mind my Sword.
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Correction: Every single samurai is his own army. Every single one of them trained their whole lifetime in the way of the sword (Bushido) and were (in my opinion) the best close combat sword fighters that ever walked this earth. Their sole purpuse for the last 400 years was war. They trained in sole as well as multi-combat and were more than capable of defending themselves from an attack of multiple opponents. If you are reffering to their defence against rifles and other ranged weapons, then yes.. it would kill them (it was eventually the influence of American and European guns that were brought to Japan that ended the age of samurai), but if you are reffering to close combat - each samurai would kill a lot of soldiers on his own. Their power was not in numbers, but in skill.
No matter how skilled you are, if you are outnumbered and surrounded, you are soon dead. That's the crude reality of life. That is why you strive not to get yourself put into such a situation. A good commander (which Samurai were) would know that.
Also, samurai did not use the Katana in open field combat. They preferred to use weapons that could be used from horseback, such as the Yari (lance) and the Yumi (longbow).
Quote:
Oh and I think Iesu was reffering to what other people in this topic were talking about. I think that half of this topic is based on anime samurai/ninjas, which I agree has no real picture of what a real samurai/ninja is.
Anime Samurai/Ninja bear completely no resemblance to their namesakes. I refuse to debate about them .
Ninja. Easy. While the samurai is writing lame poetry on a piece of rice paper during a tea ceremony, or winding down in the sauna after a long day of slicing unarmed peasants whose mules dropped a load in his path or something, the ninja disguised as a monk sneaks up behind him and garrotes him with some prayer beads. It's not even fair.
A gurkha would massacre them both, though.
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Samurai all the way. Bushido is a way of life. Ninjas are all sneaky and treacherous...
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Both have the super death machine thing going, but in my opinion Ninjas have a lot more style. But that's just my personal opinion.
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