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uh, since there is no longer an AP cost for "half spellcasting", how is that currently being balanced against normal spellcasting?
I saw the dealy last week, and noticed the change this week. Just curious is all.
I'm just dying to make an eldritch theurge with Invocations and spellcasting.
Half-Spellcasting never had an AP cost. Originally it was Spellcasting and Invocations, then I added the others. It's balanced against normal Spellcasting because... Spellcasting has a huge AP cost.
[tl;dr dumbness erased]
Edit: Oops... you obviously meant Half-Spellcasting plus Invocations. That would only cost 19 .
Oh, it never had one?
I'm quite surprised that I made that error.
huh...
Well cool anyway!
I should just insert my props. I'm currently in a Version Redesign stage with Dnd myself, and until I get my current methods to a playable form, this is my current Dnd character generation style.
Under this model, the PC adept is surprisingly better than the wizard, assuming spellcasting grants casting progression just like a wizard/sorceror (is type, say divine/arcane selectable?) and considering that 'one simple weapon proficiency' pretty much means that they will deal with simple weapons like the crossbow that the wizard/sorceror ordinarily deals with anyway. Also, the ability category C can offer the adept a capstone ability as well making them above and beyond superior to a wizard/sorceror.
And what about feats? What determines bonus feats that the character receives? What about starting gold? Also, the lack of other abilities kinda prevents the classes from becoming all that fluffy.
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Here's my classes that I created just now:
Hearty Spell Caster - 3/4 BAB - one good save - d10 hit die - 2 + int skill progression - one simple weapon proficiency - Spellcasting
Considering that barbarians ordinarily have low AC that makes up for high hp anyway, the hearty spell caster could have pretty high hp too considering that the only two stats they need worry about are their spell casting stat (which is probably best as int in this case) and CON which makes them beefy.
Sure they have very low AC, but they make decent half-barbarians, if only with the OK BAB and the just under equivalent hp, crappy weapon (likely ranged but in front of low hp dudes) and the lack of abilities that the barbarian has. The adept could probably lay a beat down on them if it had something like an animal companion.
Brave (Orca Totem) - Full BAB - WILL is good save - d6 hit die - 2 + int skill progression - All martial weapons proficiency, medium armor proficiency - Scaling
The Brave receives toughness at first level. It's capstone ability is of course impetuous endurance.
It's a simple class that takes damage better than a barbarian with proper twinking (assuming toughness multiplies HP/HD after the CON bonus and/or feat bonuses such as improved toughness and toughness). The brave is probably the easiest class there is to play in fact, however medium armor is expensive early on and players may have to rely on creativity in order to create some custom affordable armor that fits into the medium armor category (heavy leather ie.; stuff which the GM would rule as never parring up to the medium armor that exists in the core books).
It can be attribute intensive however, and it leaves little room for resisting magic early on aside from base saves.
Brave Variant (Dolphin Totem) - 1/2 BAB - WILL is good save - d6 hit die - 2 + int skill progression - All simple weapons proficiency, light armor proficiency - Scaling, D Abilities.
The Brave Variant has toughness and shield ally. Its capstone abilities are impetuous endurance and/or invulnerability (the latter if only one is selectable).
The variant is completely dumbed down in regards to fighting back, however it can take a good punch in the face a fair number of times, just like its brother. It's also great at protecting allies with its loaded hp. Additionally, it is less att heavy than its brother (no need to splurge on STR because the BAB doesn't help you in this venture), however its feat selection is slightly limited in comparison (cannot take power attack at level one).
Brave Variant (Whale Totem) - 1/2 BAB - WILL is good save - d12 hit die - 2 + int skill progression - All martial weapons proficiency, medium armor proficiency - Scaling
The Whale Totem Brave has toughness and impetuous endurance as a capstone ability.
Can you say crapton of hp? This variant is easily the best there is at absorbing blows, not to mention its ability to wear medium armor makes it fair in the AC category. It's inability to fight back is identical to that of the Dolphin Totem, however it leaves room for investing in attributes like DEX to improve AC.
The downside is that the Whale Totem is terrible at protecting allies unless he is in the right position at any one time, however one can probably make up for this with appropriate feats.
Realist - 1/2 BAB - one good save - d4 hit die - 8 + int skill progression - 1 Exotic Heavy Armor Proficiency, 3 Exotic Weapons Proficiency - Invokations
The realist is a master of making ideas, whether those of others or their own, a reality.
They are terrible at holding their own, however they are absolute skill monkeys. The one issue however is that they force players to invest skill points into a few knowledge skills as well as a handful of craft skills (usually at GM discretion) as well as spend significant game time perfecting their creations (away from adventure). Exotic Armor proficiency implies that they can craft armor which they themselves can wear that is both custom and beefs them up enough to match the ECL of other players. Such armor could be powered armor with weapons mounted to the armor itself (exotic weapons) that gives the realist all the advantages of a front liner (provided it does not break down; the realist must probably carry plenty of back up materials that the other PCs would have to assist in transporting). With magical infusions, they can both speed up the creation process and/or offer bonuses to the wearer of their creations.
At higher levels, the realist can revamp their armor with invokations/better materials/more stuff and/or replaced stuff to make it more powerful while still being proficient with it since it is the essentially same armor (can be argued with the GM, however the realist is useless without this rule).
Again, the major problem is that bad craft checks can mean worse off armor initially. In addition, there is always a major money sink involved.
Techno Savant (Realist Variant) - 1/2 BAB - one good save - d4 hit die - 8 + int skill progression - 10 AP points to spend on exotic armor proficiencies, 3 Exotic Weapons Proficiency
The Techno Savant is identical to the realist except for their inability to cast invokations. They also have inevitably more exotic armor proficiencies, meaning they can be more flexible to the party, changing outfits from armor that flies, to armor that bashes really hard, ie.
Techno Savants can revamp their armor at later levels just like the realist.
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This would make an excellent reference thread.
Last edited by imp_fireball : 02-09-2009 at 09:10 PM.
There is currently no possible way to afford the Soul Knife kind of character.
A scaling ability costs 12 points. Soul Weapon is a scaling ability.
A B ability costs 14 points. Mighty Soul Weapon is a B ability.
This leaves you 1 point short to be able to buy an ability thanks to its expensive prereq, and that's before you do *anything* else. Not sure how to balance it, though.
Really good work, I must say. It just looks like it needs some tweaking in certain aspects (like the one I just noticed).
Also, there's nothing provided on spellcasting based on int like the wizard (unless that's 15 AP). And are invokations/infusions the same thing?
Finally, I'd like to mention that the runescarred berserker can't be created (assuming full BAB, fair HD, mild proficiencies and invokations), although I've never actually seen the class description (can't find it), and only heard of it.
I guess classes like the soulknife and RBK are imba.
Last edited by imp_fireball : 02-09-2009 at 06:16 AM.
I don't believe it's been pointed out, but... As is, Aura of Entropy seems extremely overpowered.
By the last upgrade, the enemy is rolling 6d20, and randomly picking between the lowest 2. Since this applies to all d20, this applies to attacks... The chances of the enemy missing skyrocket to near-always. Crits are near nonexistent...
Not sure what to suggest instead, other than giving a penalty instead of additional die.
It's really great to see you guys interested in this. Cool builds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imp_fireball
Under this model, the PC adept is surprisingly better than the wizard, assuming spellcasting grants casting progression just like a wizard/sorceror (is type, say divine/arcane selectable?) and considering that 'one simple weapon proficiency' pretty much means that they will deal with simple weapons like the crossbow that the wizard/sorceror ordinarily deals with anyway. Also, the ability category C can offer the adept a capstone ability as well making them above and beyond superior to a wizard/sorceror.
True, but a character with Spellcasting should be at the same power level as a character who chose something else as his B ability and got more AP as a result. The goal is not to balance against 3.5 base classes, but to balance abilities of the same type against abilities of the same type.
All spells from Spellcasting are arcane, as stated. Divine spells are granted through Domains. This is mostly a flavor call on my part so you can switch it around if you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imp_fireball
And what about feats? What determines bonus feats that the character receives? What about starting gold? Also, the lack of other abilities kinda prevents the classes from becoming all that fluffy.
You gain feats and ability score increases as normal. This is just a class really, not an entirely new system. Starting gold is something that rarely comes up... go over your background with your DM if you start at level 1 and he'll assign you something.
What do you mean "other abilities"? If you have an ability to add, add it. That's what's good about the system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imp_fireball
Also, there's nothing provided on spellcasting based on int like the wizard (unless that's 15 AP).
There is no prepared casting under this system, no. I didn't think it was necessary, really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imp_fireball
And are invokations/infusions the same thing?
Invocations are from the warlock and infusions are from the artificer. I completely forgot about artificers because I'm not too familiar with Eberron. I'll add them in when I get around to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imp_fireball
Finally, I'd like to mention that the runescarred berserker can't be created (assuming full BAB, fair HD, mild proficiencies and invokations), although I've never actually seen the class description (can't find it), and only heard of it.
Well I hadn't heard of it either. However, I just looked it up, and I believe you could mimic it very easily with Half-Spellcasting, Natural Resilience, and Rage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSED
There is currently no possible way to afford the Soul Knife kind of character.
Actually, you get one ability of each type for free. You may pay AP to gain an ADDITIONAL one of those abilities. Maybe I should clarify that in the post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holocron Coder
I don't believe it's been pointed out, but... As is, Aura of Entropy seems extremely overpowered.
By the last upgrade, the enemy is rolling 6d20, and randomly picking between the lowest 2. Since this applies to all d20, this applies to attacks... The chances of the enemy missing skyrocket to near-always. Crits are near nonexistent...
Not sure what to suggest instead, other than giving a penalty instead of additional die.
That was one of the last abilities I made, and I'm not too fond of it because whether or not it is balanced, the mechanics are still very clumsy. I wanted it to have something to do with rerolls, because I was adding luck-based things at the time, but it turned into just a chaos aura. I'll work on it.
First, there is no natural spell. Period. Even though you would need 39 AP to get both, it could happen. You need to spend 10 AP to be able to get Wildshape (similar to casting).
Wildshape, B ability:
Spoiler
At level 2, a wildshaper may gain +2 to all physical stats, as well as two claws dealing 1d6 damage, slashing, and a bite attack, dealing 1d4 damage. He may not use any equipment while in wldshape. He may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1+(L/3), and it lasts for a number of rounds equal to his level. At level 4, he may pick a single animal (maximum=Level/2), which a wildshaper can expand a wildshape use. At level 6, a wildshaper gains +1 NA, +2 to all physical stats in wildshape form (not animal form). At level 8, you pick another animal. It continues in this pattern until level 20.
I highly encourage you to edit this for balance/simplification.
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Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland St. Jude
There is no mind control, citizen. Please go back to your fun.
As a thought, I was looking at making a class with a companion and realized that, starting at CR2, most companions by max would have.. baseHD + 8HD. Doesn't seem like much... especially figuring in BAB by that. Normal creatures would probably have 10HD, 11 at most by level 18.
As a thought, I was looking at making a class with a companion and realized that, starting at CR2, most companions by max would have.. 8HD. Doesn't seem like much... especially figuring in BAB by that.
Your average CR 2 guy will have about +15 attack at level 20. Can't forget the ability score bonuses. Maybe I should zazz it up a bit though... how about this:
"If your companion is an animal, its type and all of its current and future hit dice are changed to magical beast.
If your companion is a humanoid, it advances in the generic Combat NPC class instead of gaining hit dice, gaining class levels at each interval equal to the amount of hit dice it would normally have gained. You may build its archetype and choose its ability yourself."
The first part is to help out people who just want a simple wolf, as animals typically have little to no special abilities, and only get 1/2 BAB. This will make an animal's total attack bonus about +25, which is plenty. Aberrations and undead tend to make up for their 1/2 BAB with special abilities. As always, DM intervention can help with special cases...
The second part of that was part of the original intention of the ability that I guess I forgot about. Die, Leadership !
I'll go over that Wildshape thing tomorrow, Sirek. Bedtime :S
Edit: Realized that the brute and the rogue archetypes are both worse than outsider and dragon and magical beast HD. Will fix somehow, hopefully ending up with half-maneuvers or something on the brute and 5d6 sneak attack or something on the rogue, which for Companion would only give them half of either of those. Edit2: Fixed probably. Lost too much sleep definitely. Good night.
At level 2, a wildshaper may gain +2 to all physical stats, as well as two claws dealing 1d6 damage, slashing, and a bite attack, dealing 1d4 damage. He may not use any equipment while in wldshape. He may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1+(L/3), and it lasts for a number of rounds equal to his level. At level 4, he may pick a single animal (maximum=Level/2), which a wildshaper can expand a wildshape use. At level 6, a wildshaper gains +1 NA, +2 to all physical stats in wildshape form (not animal form). At level 8, you pick another animal. It continues in this pattern until level 20.
I have no idea what you're gaining at levels 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20, to be honest. You may pick a single animal, some aspect of which is level/2, which... a wildshaper can expand a wildshape use?
At any rate, your paragraph gave me some ideas which spawned the wildshape ability I've just posted up. I think yours is way underpowered, and so mine is more powerful in comparison, because the A ability Rage is much like it but better, but then again I don't know what you're gaining on the off levels with yours.
*Favored Enemy (and Vendetta): Make it allowed to choose only one type of creature instead of a group, but gain double the listed bonuses. Think of it as specialization.
*Wild Shape. Make it something else than a B Ability. Some people do like both full spellcasting and Wilshape in a class (but not at the same time, of course).
Also, my old classes and even more classes will be added to a separate post below. Why do I make so many classes? Because it's fun.
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Into Darkness: Best thing to happen to Star Trek in years.
*Favored Enemy (and Vendetta): Make it allowed to choose only one type of creature instead of a group, but gain double the listed bonuses. Think of it as specialization.
Ending up with a +10 bonus on attack rolls and AC and ability DCs and saving throws against them? Interesting idea, but seems too powerful to me. My reasoning for the creature groups was that, if you train against something with a certain body shape and/or mindset, you're going to be trained against anything like that. So, flavor-wise, you don't HAVE to be a giant-hunter or human-hunter if you trained against elves, but you are good against them as a side-effect.
There's also the fact that your DM will have a headache trying to balance throwing different kinds of creatures at you if you specialize, as you will do too well against certain creatures and your C ability is wasted against most.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Xavius
*Wild Shape. Make it something else than a B Ability. Some people do like both full spellcasting and Wilshape in a class (but not at the same time, of course).
I would advise those people to take Domains. That's pretty much what Domains is there for; a small amount of spells when you don't want to buy another B ability. If you want the druid feel, it's easy enough to worship nature gods or spirits for Domains, and choose an animal as your Shapeshift form.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Xavius
Also, my old classes and even more classes will be added to a separate post below. Why do I make so many classes? Because it's fun.
There needs to be more spellcaster-related abilities.
Here is the following Class B Ability: Extra Spells (Ex)
Prerequisite: Domains OR Spellcasting
The spellcaster with this ability gains an extra 0-level spell upon gaining this ability,and another higher-level spell every two levels,up to 9th level at 20th level.
Last edited by Southern Cross : 04-27-2009 at 01:25 AM.
There needs to be more spellcaster-related abilities.
Here is the following Class B Ability: Extra Spells (Ex)
Prerequisite: Domains OR Spellcasting
The spellcaster with this ability gains an extra 0-level spell upon gaining this ability,and another higher-level spell every two levels,up to 9th level at 20th level.
Ummm, you are aware casters are only going to have 1 B ability unless they get an extra 4 AP/don't spend any on anything else?
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Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland St. Jude
There is no mind control, citizen. Please go back to your fun.
So you've got a good number of caster-friendly options of each type except Scaling and D. And you can, of course, pick some of the more generic options as well. Evasion, Toughness, etc. help everybody. Spell Focus was actually added in specifically to help correct this problem. I really want to avoid putting in any more abilities which reference ones you will get at a later date, as that makes it useless for a few levels. The spell slot thing could be good as a D ability, though.
Edit: "Extra Spells" added as a D ability. I just realized though, that neither Spell Focus nor Extra Spells helped out invokers. I'll add something about invocations known as a D ability.
I was just taking a look at the Mighty Soul Weapon ability, and it seems overpowered. First, it makes mention of having two Soul Weapons. Nowhere in Soul Weapon does it say anything about producing multiple weapons (except for throwing). Is one supposed to just assume they can make two or do they have to spend the extra 12 AP at character creation for it?
My second problem is that MSW applies the same bonus to two weapons as it does to one. When looking at the Soulknife class (the class with the most similar ability), when they produce two weapons with mind blade, the enhancement bonus is lower. Otherwise, there is no reason to EVER use a single Soul Weapon...
Otherwise, amazing work. Most of it seems well-balanced.
You missed this: "You may summon as many weapons as you can wield, though they disappear once they leave your possession. You can dismiss any number of weapons as a free action."
Your reason for only summoning one weapon would be if you don't want to spend all your feats on TWF.
If you want to spend them on THF instead, you're summoning one two-handed weapon (and probably dealing more damage, even if you have less enhancements).
Or if you want to spend feats on neither, you're summoning one one- (to keep a hand free) or two-handed weapon, because summoning two would give you huge attack penalties.
It thanks you for the compliment! It thinks you are well-balanced too!
You missed this: "You may summon as many weapons as you can wield, though they disappear once they leave your possession. You can dismiss any number of weapons as a free action."
Your reason for only summoning one weapon would be if you don't want to spend all your feats on TWF.
If you want to spend them on THF instead, you're summoning one two-handed weapon (and probably dealing more damage, even if you have less enhancements).
Or if you want to spend feats on neither, you're summoning one one- (to keep a hand free) or two-handed weapon, because summoning two would give you huge attack penalties.
It thanks you for the compliment! It thinks you are well-balanced too!
Sorry to burst your bubble but the TWF feats are only like 3 of them, which you can get at levels 1, 6, and 11. by 11th level (with a high BaB progression) you could have 6 attacks with a vorpal kukri in each hand each at +5 to attack + damage plus strength bonus (or half strength bonus for the other three attacks). That means, without a strength bonus or other feats you could do this:
+14/+14/+9/+9/+4/+4 (1d4 + 5/18-20)
Without paying a cent. Imagine what you could do with a strength bonus and those extra feats. Not to mention you could get improved critical next level, Yikes!
And on a another note, Martial Arts + 20th level= (4d10 + damage stuffs/15-20/x6) w/out feats? x6 is alot you should think about that, plus you can get flurry of blows and power attack with this which is in a sense more scary than the above because the vorpal wont work on nonlivings but this will dish out substantial damage every time and can crit for 6 times that much!
Anyway, I really liked this generic class system (good job!), it would probably work alot better than the generic class system UA provided but it could still use a little work as you probably already knew, I just really like to contribute things and not just lurk around and this was the perfect opportunity, I just hope you take the above issues into consideration (or correct me) and don't feel offended at all. Again, good job!
You receive a +1 bonus to damage whenever you take at least a -1 penalty on your attack using the Power Attack feat. This increases by +1/-1 at each additional interval. When wielding a two-handed weapon, the damage bonus is doubled.
If I'm not mistaken this means that as long as you sacrifice a value from your attack bonus using Power Atack you get double the norm? If so that would mean a 5th level character with Power Attack and Improved Power Attack, wielding a two-handed weapon, could get -2 (2 being half your level rounded down) to attack via power attack, and then +8 to damage am I right? (Not to mention the strength bonus being multiplied by 1.5)
Maybe you could have it so that it gives +.5 per -1 from power attack as long as you sacrifice at least half of your level rounded down (the number of times you have the ability). So that in turn when wielding a weapon one-handed you'd get 1.5x(the penalty to attack rolls you took) and x3 with a two-handed weapon (rather than x2 and x4 respectively).
its just that -2 for +8 doesn't seem quite right especially since by level 5, -2 is hardly anything. Of course, +6 is quite a climb too but I guess since its a class feature its fine.
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