I'd also highly reccomend anything by Neil Gaiman, but especially Neverwhere, Stardust, and The Graveyard Book. Personally, I think American Gods is his best work, but you gotta ease up to it.
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Originally Posted by Chilingsworth
Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
I'd also highly reccomend anything by Neil Gaiman, but especially Neverwhere, Stardust, and The Graveyard Book. Personally, I think American Gods is his best work, but you gotta ease up to it.
I quite like Books of Magic too.
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Originally Posted by MountainKing
And Mal... I'm going to start hitting on you in my head now. I don't know when I'll stop.
I'd also highly reccomend anything by Neil Gaiman, but especially Neverwhere, Stardust, and The Graveyard Book. Personally, I think American Gods is his best work, but you gotta ease up to it.
American Gods is beyond good. Neil Gaiman also has the advantage of having different works to suit your maturity:
The Day I Swapped My Dad For Two Goldfish & The Wolves In The Walls - small children.
Stardust & Coraline - adolescents
The Sandman - moody teenagers
American Gods & Anansi Boys - Grownups.
Not to say you can't enjoy everything he wrote at any age. Because he's good.
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Avatar, with thanks to the wondrous Ink. Steampunk avatar by the talented KingGolem. xkcd avatar by the fantabulous happyturtle
Speaking of nosedives, Children of Dune and beyond...
Terry Pratchett, on the other hand, just gets better as he writes more. The way that experience is supposed to work.
On the other hand, occasionally he just has an off-six-months and phones something in while he rests up and thinks for the next book. This is how I explain things like Moving Pictures and the Moist novels.
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Stealthy Snake avatar by Dawn Signum Zeichen Nachtgott by Tengu
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I thought the actor was attractive.
As Cedric Diggory.
Quite. I was sad when he died. THAT'S RIGHT - HE DIES!
Movie was baaaaaaaad. Didn't read the book because I didn't feel like devoting longer than...2 1/2 hours?...of my time to it. Will probably not watch the others unless dragged into it by a female friend - again. Will NOT ever spend money on them, ugh.
Wanna see some people hate on me? A) I haz a new Recaiden dolly that is hella kewt, and B) I LOVED THE WHEEL OF TIME SERIES!
On the other hand, occasionally he just has an off-six-months and phones something in while he rests up and thinks for the next book. This is how I explain things like Moving Pictures and the Moist novels.
I like reading through Moving Pictures and trying to spot every single reference. And I quite enjoyed the Moist novels. Going Postal was much better than Making Money, and they're no Night Watch, but they're amusing enough and I don't want Discworld to get too noir.
* Actually, Making Money was pretty bad.
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On the other hand, occasionally he just has an off-six-months and phones something in while he rests up and thinks for the next book. This is how I explain things like Moving Pictures and the Moist novels.
Well, the first Moist novel wasn't bad. It's when the second one looked exactly like the first one but in different decorations that something started to look wrong.
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On the other hand, occasionally he just has an off-six-months and phones something in while he rests up and thinks for the next book. This is how I explain things like Moving Pictures and the Moist novels.
Do not blaspheme against Moist Von Lipwig. He has the most badass name of any protagonist ever.
@Irish - I've noticed that younger children (8-12) think Coraline is a wonderful adventure, and adults (20-death) tend to walk around the house turning on all the lights after reading it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilingsworth
Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
@Irish - I've noticed that younger children (8-12) think Coraline is a wonderful adventure, and adults (20-death) tend to walk around the house turning on all the lights after reading it.
When I read Wolves In The Walls to my little sister she went around the house with a stick looking for them. Neil Gaiman is obviously an excellent tool for raising your children.
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And that's exactly why they should read that sort of literature, otherwise they'll never comprehend it.
Well, yeah, eventually.
But I don't really want my extremely immature fourteen year old sister reading it now, kthnx.
She wouldn't enjoy it, and, if she could force herself to read it, I think it would scar her for life.
However, since I'm a "nerd" and had already been exposed to such things at her age, it was a fine read by me, if a little long and dry (Anne Rice can be accused of such things, really...).
The problem here is that my sister is intelligent (beyond most of her grade level, anyways), and yet she enjoys stupid things. She's not nerdy, she wouldn't enjoy Pratchett or Gaiman, and so even getting her to read Twilight was a victory for me.
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Dude, if your sister doesn't take to Gaiman, I'd suggest gving up on her now.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilingsworth
Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
Well, yeah, eventually.
But I don't really want my extremely immature fourteen year old sister reading it now, kthnx.
She wouldn't enjoy it, and, if she could force herself to read it, I think it would scar her for life.
However, since I'm a "nerd" and had already been exposed to such things at her age, it was a fine read by me, if a little long and dry (Anne Rice can be accused of such things, really...).
The problem here is that my sister is intelligent (beyond most of her grade level, anyways), and yet she enjoys stupid things. She's not nerdy, she wouldn't enjoy Pratchett or Gaiman, and so even getting her to read Twilight was a victory for me.
I've never been a fan of pandering to immaturity. I started reading adult novels at around the age of twelve (mainly Michael Moorcock).
I don't believe in 'teen' literature. Either you're still a child, and should stick with children's books, or you have the mental maturity to read books for grown-ups.
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I'm guessing I shouldn't point out that I liked making money more than going postal? Of course people have said I have bad taste before...
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An Uwe Boll fan, and proud of it. LONG LIVE THE BOLL!
Also a Michael Bay fan.
Likes Jar Jar
Likes FATAL..... No, I'm sorry, but no. Everything else on this list? I like, but while I've done many horrible things in my life, I WILL NOT claim to like FATAL.
No, LOTR and the Chronicles of Narnia are packaged as health food but secretly are extremely bad for you. Too much thinly veiled allegory, gender-related bigotry (Susan), paternalism, social-class snobbery and racism (Calormenes and Southrons) in the diet can lead to coronary heart diseases.
...huh?
I'm not sure what's wrong with "thinly veiled allegory", as it worked just fine for Animal Farm and Gulliver's Travels, and I'll usually take "thinly veiled allegory" over a book that feels the need to beat you into the head with its message repeatedly without any allegory whatsoever. The other things I find to be rather overstated.
Speaking of nosedives, Children of Dune and beyond...
Terry Pratchett, on the other hand, just gets better as he writes more. The way that experience is supposed to work.
Well, I've been reading through Dune very very slowly. I must say, it's one of the most amazing Sci-Fi’s ever.
I've been a fan since I got the "Dune 2000" game when I was about 7 (still my fave RTS game).
They're making a new Dune movie too which I hope comes out well.
Anyway yeah, Frank Herbert= God amoung authors.
I haven't read Children of Dune yet, but I saw the movie(ish) and it was very good.
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= Kiefer Sutherland kicking the crap out of Cullen for 24 hours.
It's so true.
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I can't get the image of Edward getting Death By Stereo!'d out of my head.
I've never been a fan of pandering to immaturity. I started reading adult novels at around the age of twelve (mainly Michael Moorcock).
I don't believe in 'teen' literature. Either you're still a child, and should stick with children's books, or you have the mental maturity to read books for grown-ups.
You might as well say there aren't teenagers, then. There are just kids and adults, and, by dammit, if I want to marry a thirteen year old, if she isn't still reading See Spot Run and playing with Barbie Dolls, she's ready to be an adult and I damn well can.
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Last edited by RabbitHoleLost : 06-03-2009 at 12:09 PM.
I'm not sure what's wrong with "thinly veiled allegory", as it worked just fine for Animal Farm, and I'll take "thinly veiled allegory" over a book that feels the need to beat you into the head with its message repeatedly without any allegory whatsoever. The other things I find to be rather overstated.
I suppose the fact that I raised the point shows how much I approve of the particular allegory.
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You wouldn't be the first. It's been culturally acceptable in many parts of the world for hundreds of years. Including Europe.
If I do say 'there aren't teenagers'? Being a teenager is arguablly a cultural phenomenon.
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I go by the "whatever floats your boat" school of thought. I've never read the Twilight books and I don't really plan to (teen romance novels aren't my cup of tea). However, I have no problems at all with the books or the fans. Again, if someone else finds the novels enjoyable, good for them.
One of the major arguments against the Twilight books is that it encourages "abusive relationships". Honestly, that's like arguing that reading A Clockwork Orange is going to encourage the reader to join a street gang or that reading The Sun Also Rises is going to encourage the reader to travel to Spain and get drunk during the fesitival of San Fermin. Just because one enjoys reading a book doesn't mean that they'll emulate the characters in it. Remember, the "influence" argument is the same one that opponents of violent video games use to try and restrict those.
Another argument is that the Twilight series is bad literature and they should be reading something "better". By those lines, I suppose that they should write a letter to an English Literature departmart and restricting themselves to what the professors classify as acceptable reads. What people choose to read in their free time is only their business. The person among us who hasn't enjoyed reading escapist literature may throw the first stone here.
Perhaps what I find most baffling is that a community that often prides itself on openness and acceptance can be so dismissive and elitist when it comes to some of the likes and dislikes of others. All of us dislike some forms of media. However, if we dislike something it doesn't mean that someone else can't like it nor does it mean we can criticize them for liking it. Personal taste is just that, personal.
You wouldn't be the first. It's been culturally acceptable in many parts of the world for hundreds of years. Including Europe.
If I do say 'there aren't teenagers'? Being a teenager is arguablly a cultural phenomenon.
Hogwash, if we did that we'd be no better than the japanese! That is assuming we're still discussing non-japanese countries.
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An Uwe Boll fan, and proud of it. LONG LIVE THE BOLL!
Also a Michael Bay fan.
Likes Jar Jar
Likes FATAL..... No, I'm sorry, but no. Everything else on this list? I like, but while I've done many horrible things in my life, I WILL NOT claim to like FATAL.
You wouldn't be the first. It's been culturally acceptable in many parts of the world for hundreds of years. Including Europe.
If I do say 'there aren't teenagers'? Being a teenager is arguablly a cultural phenomenon.
Its becoming less and less culturally acceptable as we realize the mentality that goes hand in hand with age.
Perhaps being a teenager is a cultural phenomenon, but so is being a toddler or a middle-aged person, and there are certain things that are and aren't acceptable for that age-era.
Toddlers are really just kids, aren't they? But there are certain things that are acceptable and some that aren't for them, just the same. You cannot give a toddler a toy with small parts, because their minds aren't ready for such things, and they're likely to eat them and possibly choke and die, or some such.
At the same level, a young teenager may not be ready for such heavy topics, though it really depends on the teenager in question. You and I were obviously able to tackle darker concepts at a young age, but my sister would be uncomfortable and would possibly swear off reading yet again (And I've just convinced her to read The Looking Glass Wars, too v.v)
...To be fair, my sister was mostly uncomfortable with the last Twilight book, regarding the sex and the violent "Caesarean section".
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Black Canary Avatar By Trog
You wouldn't be the first. It's been culturally acceptable in many parts of the world for hundreds of years. Including Europe.
If I do say 'there aren't teenagers'? Being a teenager is arguablly a cultural phenomenon.
There's definitely some biology there. There are parts of the brain that don't finish maturing until the early twenties, and deficiency in those areas has real effects on behavior.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopy13a
One of the major arguments against the Twilight books is that it encourages "abusive relationships". Honestly, that's like arguing that reading A Clockwork Orange is going to encourage the reader to join a street gang or that reading The Sun Also Rises is going to encourage the reader to travel to Spain and get drunk during the fesitival of San Fermin. Just because one enjoys reading a book doesn't mean that they'll emulate the characters in it. Remember, the "influence" argument is the same one that opponents of violent video games use to try and restrict those.
If it weren't for the fact that a noticeable sector of the fan base rhapsodizes about the relationship in the book and wishes they were in a similar relationship, I'd agree.
But while most literature doesn't cause the reader to imitate people in the story, I think there are exceptions. There are cases where the story can encourage people with a pre-existing tendency to follow it. For a mentally healthy person, Twilight is harmless, like any other story. But for a mentally unhealthy person, I worry that it may encourage them to do things against their own interests.
Some people read books as escapism, but I've actually known a few people who tend to use things that happen in books as excuses for things they do in real life. And there's a limit on how high-octane the fuel I'm willing to give people like that is.
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Another argument is that the Twilight series is bad literature and they should be reading something "better". By those lines, I suppose that they should write a letter to an English Literature departmart and restricting themselves to what the professors classify as acceptable reads. What people choose to read in their free time is only their business. The person among us who hasn't enjoyed reading escapist literature may throw the first stone here.
Agreed.
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Perhaps what I find most baffling is that a community that often prides itself on openness and acceptance can be so dismissive and elitist when it comes to some of the likes and dislikes of others. All of us dislike some forms of media. However, if we dislike something it doesn't mean that someone else can't like it nor does it mean we can criticize them for liking it. Personal taste is just that, personal.
Agreed. It leaves me cold, but the only reason I have any real problem with it is that I'm worried about its ability to convince silly people to do even sillier things. That's not a huge thing, to be honest.
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Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost
At the same level, a young teenager may not be ready for such heavy topics, though it really depends on the teenager in question. You and I were obviously able to tackle darker concepts at a young age, but my sister would be uncomfortable and would possibly swear off reading yet again (And I've just convinced her to read The Looking Glass Wars, too v.v)
You do realize the risk if she starts picking up John Ringo books at random after liking those, right? If dark concepts are liable to make her swear off reading, the wrong Ringo book might knock her all the way into aphasia.
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If your idea of fun is to give the players whatever they want, then I suggest you take out a board game called: CANDY LAND and use that for your gaming sessions.
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Obviously, you have never known the frustration of being stranded in the Molasses Swamp.
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