Relationship Woes and Advice, Trip to Baator

[Ditto]

Umael: I think you're right on the one hand, it's weird that E & M view it as a 'total hands-off forever'. On the other hand, it's plentry reasonable for one friend to call dibs and the other to be respectful and give friend #1 a fair shot at seeing where it goes. It's part of the social construct, you don't want to be playing against one another for the same guy cuz then it'll just get ugly. But I certainly wouldn't regard it as anything more than a temporary dibs - you get to take a crack at it, then someone else can take a turn.

Man, Serp is gonna smack someone upside the head with all of this friend zone talk... the friend zone is BS. (She says it more eloquently...) The right approach has been put forward already, in all of the situations presented for advice: Go for it. Ask the girl out, no pressure, no profession of undying love. Just take the leap and get yourself established as someone who wants to spend time with her [and possibly more]. My girlfriend was into me way before I realized I was into her, but held back on saying anything because 'that's what girls do'. I understand where she's coming from as a stupid cultural thing, but when I think that we could have gotten together months earlier, sheee! Stupid cultural thing indeed!

[Umael]

Originally Posted by Ditto

Umael: I think you're right on the one hand, it's weird that E & M view it as a 'total hands-off forever'. On the other hand, it's plentry reasonable for one friend to call dibs and the other to be respectful and give friend #1 a fair shot at seeing where it goes.

Actually, I'm okay with that part.

The issue is:

Apparently she believes that it breaks some kind of cultural taboo that if your girl friend (not girlfriend) is dating, has dated, or is thinking about dating some guy, he is FOREVER off the list of potential dates.

Girl friend interested in him? He's off-limits.
Girl friend dating him? He's off-limits.
Girl friend dated him once last week? He's off-limits.
Girl friend dated him for two years, relationship ended badly? He's off-limits.
Girl friend dated him ten years ago, broke up amicably, she really wants him to find someone good for him, he's perfect? He's off-limits.

What's next?

Girl friend dated him in a former life? He's off-limits.
Girl friend looked funny at him? He's off-limits.
Girl friend dated him once, gave the go-ahead? I just spoke with E. about this, and surprise, surprise! He's off-limits!

Makes no sense. Zero. Zilch. None. Nada.

(Oh, and if someone ever says "it's okay, go for it", and I do, he or she better not turn around and say, "you went for it?! how could you!?" They pull that on me, I go for the throat.

Metaphorically speaking, of course.)

[Coidzor]

Sounds like a job for better friend selection?

Meh. The worst is when they never say anything and expect one to know that someone is off limits because they have a crush that they'll never act on and then try to stab ya. That was a weird bit of drama. Not nearly as entertaining as when two pregnant women are trying to cause the other to miscarriage in a fight over the baby-daddy.

[Renegade Paladin]

Originally Posted by Coidzor

Sounds like a job for better friend selection?

Meh. The worst is when they never say anything and expect one to know that someone is off limits because they have a crush that they'll never act on and then try to stab ya. That was a weird bit of drama. Not nearly as entertaining as when two pregnant women are trying to cause the other to miscarriage in a fight over the baby-daddy.

That... doesn't sound entertaining at all.

[Coidzor]

Well, having to run to the bathroom before I lost control of my bowels from the terror of these really big and angry pregnant 15 year olds certainly occupied my attention in highschool. Especially if I were anywhere near the path between the two of them. Hoo boy.

But they were the longest running fights back in highschool. Like. Lasted a good 5-10 minutes rather than being over in about a minute after finally starting like the guy fights got. Unless it descended into an all out brawl. But that only happened twice.

I remember one of the principals needing a shot after getting bitten by an angry, frothing at the mouth girl once.

[Jalor]

Originally Posted by Coidzor

Well, having to run to the bathroom before I lost control of my bowels from the terror of these really big and angry pregnant 15 year olds certainly occupied my attention in highschool. Especially if I were anywhere near the path between the two of them. Hoo boy.

My school is the same way. I've seen girls stop in mid-conversation, lunge across the hallway, and attempt to strangle their competition. Friggin' monogamy and its ability to induce violence.

@Umael: I've heard some variations of that, but not from anyone mature. What country are you in, and how old are the friends in question?

@Everyone who wants advice about their secret crush: Tell him/her. As soon as possible. Be confident, don't say "I love you", don't vomit out half-witted compliments, and imply that you've only recently noticed that you're interested in him/her. Don't lie to his/her face, but don't tell them you've been madly in love with them for months either. I'm not sure about guys, but most girls think it's creepy when male friends lust for them for long periods of time without telling them. And trust me, I know all about what girls think is creepy. I'm the Restraining Order Guy.

[Coidzor]

Originally Posted by Jalor

My school is the same way. I've seen girls stop in mid-conversation, lunge across the hallway, and attempt to strangle their competition. Friggin' monogamy and its ability to induce violence.

Well, I think it's rather the absence of monogamy that's the main cause of the fights I've witnessed or seen people form a solid wall in order to get a better view for themselves while not being included in the fight...

[Umael]

Originally Posted by Jalor

@Umael: I've heard some variations of that, but not from anyone mature. What country are you in, and how old are the friends in question?

USA and late 20s. I think M. just turned 30, actually.

For the record, M. and my other friend (who was part of the four that agreed "this is the way it is") are pretty level-headed and mature for the most part. It's just... alien.

[Coidzor]

It is pretty weird. There's usually a statute of limitations at play.

[evil-frosty]

You know when you think your over someone and everything is going alright but then a tiny tiny thing reminds you of your ex? Well that has been happening to me every day it seems like. I just cant get her out of my head its like she has some sick hold over me or something. I hate it. My one friend i actually talk to about this stuff is just mad at me since according to her i am not over my ex, which is probably true. Small things remind me of her. Like driving down a street i would commonly go down to see her. Or when i was in Meijer and i remember a time when i randomly ran into her in the store.

It is getting annoying having her constantly come up in my thinking. With this though comes the feeling of regret and wanting a redo and all that crappy stuff. Really all i am doing here is venting since it seems like i have no where else to go to. But any advice you guys have on keeping my mind off of her would be great i guess.

[Jalor]

Originally Posted by Umael

USA and late 20s. I think M. just turned 30, actually.

Strange. It's especially odd how all of your friends seem to agree on this. Maybe it's just your state or even your town.

Well, every place has its own weird customs. About a year ago I spent some time in a town where the principal form of recreation was juggling geese. And referencing Firefly.

Originally Posted by evil-frosty

stuff about regrets

It takes different people different amounts of time to get over a breakup. Unless it's been more than 6 months since the end, you're probably taking it well enough. Sometimes it helps to start seeing someone else as soon as possible.

[Syka]

I now confess my undying admiration of Jalor. You are a god amongst men for that surprisingly subtle use of Firefly.

On ex's friends and friend's exes: I'm of the mind that I won't date a friends ex or an ex's friend for pure drama-reduction purposes. This is not a hard and fast rule, dependant upon the following: A. compatibility, B. what the former relationship was like, C. my/the ex's relationship with the friend in question, D. the friend or ex's blessing upon the relationship.

If an acquaintence dated this guy 3 years ago for a couple months, I'd date him. If a good friend had a bad break up I'd actually probably never date the guy based upon knowledge of the break up, but assuming amicability, I'd NEED to get my friend's blessing in order to not feel like a Grade A ass for dating him. If it's an ex's best friend...once again, I'd want the best friend to get the blessing of the ex, or do so myself (I'd hope I'm on OK terms with an ex in that situation).

For me it's out of respect for my friend and/or ex. Of course there are exceptions, and crushes are exempt unless it is a current crush and/or attempts are being made at going past the crush line into relationship territory.


I think A, Oz's ex, said it best. It was really weird for a friend of hers to start dating an ex of her's, because they were Friend and Friend Ex, and those were their 'statuses' and it was kinda weird that they were getting together, despite friendship with both and not liking Ex anymore. It wasn't weird becoming friends with me, despite my dating her ex, because I was never Friend before. I am Friend now, but I began as Ex's Girlfriend. (She has a habit of dating long-time guy friends and they figure out post-dating they make much better friends then lovers.)

I think a lot has to do with categorization prior to the dating.

[evil-frosty]

Jalor- its been since late december/early january since the break up.

[Renegade Paladin]

Okay, I've got a problem that under the rules I cannot (and more to the point, will not) discuss on the board (and the will not applies to anywhere else public as well). If someone who can handle (and know what he or she is talking about concerning) mature topics, keep a level head, and most importantly can keep his or her trap shut (please) could contact me by PM or IM (relevant contact info is listed in my profile) to talk and hopefully advise, I'd appreciate it.

[Roland St. Jude]

Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin

Okay, I've got a problem that under the rules I cannot (and more to the point, will not) discuss on the board (and the will not applies to anywhere else public as well). If someone who can handle (and know what he or she is talking about concerning) mature topics, keep a level head, and most importantly can keep his or her trap shut (please) could contact me by PM or IM (relevant contact info is listed in my profile) to talk and hopefully advise, I'd appreciate it.

PM sent. I am the soul of discretion and maturity. (And humility, of course.)

[afroakuma]

Originally Posted by Roland St. Jude

PM sent. I am the soul of discretion and maturity. (And humility, of course.)

*examines "Super Moderator" title, "Archangel in the Playground" custom rank and current avatar*

Of course. Exceptional humility.

Here's a quick one: Do any of you have "No" buttons that are an automatic turnoff, and what would you do if one was pushed during the relationship?

I'm not talking about "eats infants" here, nor about political or religious views, but things like smoking or recreational drug use?

[Renegade Paladin]

Originally Posted by afroakuma

*examines "Super Moderator" title, "Archangel in the Playground" custom rank and current avatar*

Of course. Exceptional humility.

Here's a quick one: Do any of you have "No" buttons that are an automatic turnoff, and what would you do if one was pushed during the relationship?

I'm not talking about "eats infants" here, nor about political or religious views, but things like smoking or recreational drug use?

Yes. Smoking and recreational drug use are in fact both on my list, as well as certain proclivities that I'd probably do well to not name.

[Dracomorph]

The one dealbreaker I've discovered is an inability to look me in the eye while you're talking.
Not, like, only occasionally has trouble maintaining eye contact; that isn't a problem, it just means you're embarrassed. But being unable to look me in the face at all now sets off all sorts of warning bells.

[Jalor]

Originally Posted by afroakuma

Here's a quick one: Do any of you have "No" buttons that are an automatic turnoff, and what would you do if one was pushed during the relationship.

Blatantly fishing for compliments. Addiction to alcohol or another hard drug; recreational use I can deal with. Being embarrassed to be seen with me. Being excessively clingy. Being rude to my friends.

I often overlook massive personality flaws in relationships, but some things I just don't stand for.

Originally Posted by Syka

I now confess my undying admiration of Jalor. You are a god amongst men for that surprisingly subtle use of Firefly.

*sigged*

@evil-frosty That's pretty long ago. Have you had any other relationships since then?

[evil-frosty]

Yes Jalor i had one but it really wasnt an actual relationship as she just said yes because she could/didnt want to say no. Dont we really consider that one a relationship.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Originally Posted by afroakuma

Here's a quick one: Do any of you have "No" buttons that are an automatic turnoff, and what would you do if one was pushed during the relationship?

I'm not talking about "eats infants" here, nor about political or religious views, but things like smoking or recreational drug use?

Doesn't show empathy, is boring ...

Oh and *some* taste in music. I'm too much of a musical asswhore to get along well enough with someone who's tastes are wildly different and similarly unyielding. It just wouldn't work.

[snoopy13a]

Originally Posted by afroakuma

Here's a quick one: Do any of you have "No" buttons that are an automatic turnoff, and what would you do if one was pushed during the relationship?

Hmm, drug, alcohol, or gambling addictions, prison record, deep financial problems (e.g. heavy credit card debt) or kids.

[Syka]

Smoking is a big one for me seeing as, well, it can kill me. Alcohol isn't an automatic no but if it's drinking in excess (ie, signs of alcoholism) it's a no-go. Drug use, mostly because it's illegal but pot only because of the smoking issue above. Dishonesty, any form of abuse (physical or emotional), cheating. Stuff that won't let a relationship get off the ground is stuff like incompatibilities in religion and politics (I don't mean we have different views, I mean one of us is trying to convert the other to our side), inability to have intellectual conversations, etc.

Mostly the smoking, dishonesty, and cheating are the dealbreakers I've encountered within relationships or potential relationships.

Renegade, sending you a PM. Pretty much nothing offends me and what is said in PM, stays private.

[xPANCAKEx]

"instant no button"

turns offs for me are

• introveinous drug use (im pretty liberal about most other things, despite my personal abstinance, as long as the lass doesn;t change into something i find unnattractive on drugs),
• the uncreative. Women with no imagination bore me senseless.
• Clinginess and paranoia are usually no goes for me too especially when the baggage stems from a previous relationship. There was one exception to this, and in her case, she made a great deal of effort to overcome her issues, and was an adult and appologised when ever it cropped up. Still it was a factor that contributed to the demise of that relationship - kinda a mutual "im not ready for this"/"yeah, not gunna argue with you there"
• women who are too shy. Shyness can be adorable, but when they're so shy they can't even express themselves... no thanks

re the HANDS OFF FOREVER:

If they whinge about it, they're either 15 (you can get away with it at that age), or still acting like they're 15. If you're approaching 30 and still trying to play dibs over "oh i have a crush on him, hands off" its a bit silly. Its a bit silly to turn someone down just because your friend likes them.

Actively c*ckblocking a friend is a bit of a no-no... but if you deal with it maturely (having a quiet word in private), then friends who are adults should be ok with it, and be able to grasp the concept of not rubbing it in each others faces

friends exs - depends on the break up. If they can't stand to see them be happy with a friend, then they're not over it - simple as that.

[Umael]

Originally Posted by Jalor

Strange. It's especially odd how all of your friends seem to agree on this. Maybe it's just your state or even your town.

Just wanted to clarify this bit - I only have two co-workers whom I consider friends. Most of my friends are outside work, and they do not have the same view.


Re: Turn Offs

For one to display a smallness of mind and attitude, closed to possibility and sluggish to change, to be not just dull of senses and sensibility, but of tongue and talent, belittling the vastness they do not understand and held without the beauty that is the childlike wonder - this is anathema to I.

To hold disproportionate their skewed and wretched mockery that they call justice whichs grants unto them by self-appointed mandate an over-abundance of center rights to all things properly belonging to others, not just of property, but of culture and dignity, holding to ill-placed anger when denied such.

[Silfir]

Turn offs:

- Being dull and boring.
- Bad personality - I'd like to say, but you don't notice these things until it's too late.

[Jalor]

Originally Posted by evil-frosty

Yes Jalor i had one but it really wasnt an actual relationship as she just said yes because she could/didnt want to say no. Dont we really consider that one a relationship.

Generally when someone doesn't want to say no, it's because they want to say yes. But I sort of understand. I think I've had similar experiences.

How are you about seeking another girlfriend? Any girls you might be interested in? Remember, the best way to get rid of bad memories is to make better ones.

@Renegade: See recently revised sig. And remember that absolutely nothing offends me.

[Armin]

If anyone is interested in helping someone who's been hurt, I"m here. I can't reference what happened to me because of hte board rules.

[Jalor]

PM box, always open, you know the drill.

[Silfir]

For what it's worth, mine too.