Cthulhu vs Melkor (AKA Morgoth)

[Renegade Paladin]

Originally Posted by Cracklord

And Cthulhu could withstand Nuclear explosions none the worse for wear. Before atom bombs were actually invented.

Really? Source? I find that hard to believe, considering Lovecraft was writing before the invention of the atomic bomb and thus could not have accounted for it.

[Stormthorn]

Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin

Really? Source? I find that hard to believe, considering Lovecraft was writing before the invention of the atomic bomb and thus could not have accounted for it.

Well, Cthuhlu is pretty resiliant. Not tough, since a boat tore a hole in him, but resiliant, since its a temporary setback.

[Drakyn]

I think the atomic bomb citation is something from call of cthulu about rules if you nuke him: he reforms quickly, like he does from other damage...and he's also radioactive. Not from Lovecraft, but hilarious.

[Matar]

IIRC t's from some quote about Cthulhu that Lovecraft wrote. It had the word "Nuclear" in it or something.

...I really don't remember >_>.

[chiasaur11]

Originally Posted by Drakyn

I think the atomic bomb citation is something from call of cthulu about rules if you nuke him: he reforms quickly, like he does from other damage...and he's also radioactive. Not from Lovecraft, but hilarious.

Ah, but remember the words of Doom Marine, on his journey for the gun of greater size.

"And lo, the marine did rise from the wastes, and his voice declared 'Now I'm radioactive! That can't be good!'

And it was not good, although his resolve made it impedeth him not, for what should come of the children, and the children's children, and so on unto the fifth generation. Ye, verily, the humanity."

Words for all of us, even Cthulhu, to remember in these troubled times.

[Drakyn]

Fear not! Cthulu shall EAT the little tykes, and then they will not have to worry about radioactivity - whether in giant space alien monster god-priests or green slimy puddles - ever, ever again!
Incidentally, did you know that "ftaghn" actually translates as "would you be interested in funding research into renewable energy sources"?

[Renegade Paladin]

Originally Posted by Stormthorn

Well, Cthuhlu is pretty resiliant. Not tough, since a boat tore a hole in him, but resiliant, since its a temporary setback.

Yes, he is pretty resilient, but to take the fact that he can recover from a boat plowing into his head and derive that he must therefore be impervious to harm is a massive no-limits fallacy.

Because as we all know, if violence wasn't your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

[Coatl Ruu]

Personally, I think they would just fight to a stalemate, seeing as neither of them can truly be killed. After all, "That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die."

So...yeah.

[hamishspence]

Originally Posted by Matar

IIRC t's from some quote about Cthulhu that Lovecraft wrote. It had the word "Nuclear" in it or something.

...I really don't remember >_>.

Azathoth is referred to as a "monstrous nuclear chaos"

Even prior to nuclear bombs- there was research on radium, and how the stars function- and he could have gotten the use of the word from that.

[Drakyn]

Or "nuclear" in the sense of "central." You know, the nucleus.

[hamishspence]

It is an alternative possibility- though its rare to see "nuclear" used to mean "central".

[Drakyn]

He IS in the center of the universe, and it would've been much more likely a use in Lovecraft's time than it is today. The nucleus of an atom, the nucleus of a cell...... same source.

[Zaydos]

The line is from when the main character sees Azathoth is the center of the cosmos and is horrified, though, isn't it (been a few years so my quote placement might be off)? Azathoth was horrible because he was central, not because he was radioactive.

[The Big Dice]

To be fair, when Cthulhu got hit in the head by a ship, he had just woken up on the wrong day and hadn't had his morning coffee yet. I'd imagine that even Great Old Ones set their alarm clocks wrong sometimes, only to realise they didn't need to get up after they stub their metaphorical toe on the hypothetical hope chest.

But as for who would win between Morgoth and Cthulhu, didn't Morgoth's attempts to subvert the original Song result in lots of nasty things being created? I could be misremembering the Silmarillion here, but if I'm not that could well mean that the two would square off in the ring, only to talk smack about the "good" Valar and make a new tag team to take on the universe.

[Stormthorn]

Originally Posted by hamishspence

It is an alternative possibility- though its rare to see "nuclear" used to mean "central".

A: This is Lovecrafts word usage we are talking about.
B: He is the center of creation, although he doesnt really realize it.
C: Lovecraft was not a physicist.

[Cracklord]

Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin

Really? Source? I find that hard to believe, considering Lovecraft was writing before the invention of the atomic bomb and thus could not have accounted for it.

Mountains of Madness. They're not explicitly called Nuclear missiles, but they have enough traits in common to be essentially the same thing.

And you have never read any H G Wells, have you? Of course science Fiction Writers can account for changes. That is what makes it Science Fiction (I'll admit that Lovecraft does not actually write Science Fiction, but it has many traits in common). Lovecraft was determined to keep his work as plausible as possible, so he read scientific journals and reports in an effort to do so.

[Renegade Paladin]

Originally Posted by Cracklord

Mountains of Madness. They're not explicitly called Nuclear missiles, but they have enough traits in common to be essentially the same thing.

And you have never read any H G Wells, have you? Of course science Fiction Writers can account for changes. That is what makes it Science Fiction (I'll admit that Lovecraft does not actually write Science Fiction, but it has many traits in common). Lovecraft was determined to keep his work as plausible as possible, so he read scientific journals and reports in an effort to do so.

Okay, so it's theoretically possible. I can't help but notice that you didn't actually answer the question, which was to cite where he said Cthulhu was impervious to harm from nuclear weapons.

[Mikeavelli]

One of the Call of Cthulhu RPG's (Chaosium's, I think?) had contingency rules for if the Players nuked Cthluhu, wisely anticipating that anyone role-playing a CoC game set after World War II would try to end the old ones in Nuclear Fire.

The rules were something along the lines of "It works, but he just comes back the next day, and he's radioactive."

Lovecraft described Azathoth using the word "Nuclear" to mean "center" as has been described above. the word has changed meaning since then, it doesn't have anything to do with the bomb.

---

As originally written, Cthulhu would fall pretty quickly against Melkor. Even Sauron would give him a run for his money.

Comparatively, Lovecraft Mythos to Tolkien Cosmology, The Outer Gods (Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth being the most prominent) - Are roughly equivalent to Illuvatar, the overgod of the setting.

The next step below this in the Tolkien Pantheon, the Valar, are roughly equivalent to the rest of the old gods, like Hastur, or Nyarlathotep.

The Valar are creatures whose direct interference in the world tends to accidentally break it, as shown during the War of Wrath. They do accidentally what Cthulhu would like to do on purpose once the stars are right.

Melkor, being the most powerful of the Valar, would be able to destroy Cthulhu fairly easily at the height of his power, and would still be more than a match after dispersing his power throughout Middle Earth. Honestly, his interactions with Ungoliant make her sound something like an avatar or aspect of Nyarlathotep, and I think it describes perfectly what would actually happen if the two beings had met up.

The next step down on the Tolkien power scales is the Maiar, beings like Sauron, Gandalf, Balrogs, etc. This is where I see Cthulhu, as he was originally written by Lovecraft being. Cthulhu has acquired a reputation FAR beyond his origins because he's basically the Lovecraft mythos mascot. He's actually about at that level.

That said, Sauron during the Lord of the Rings books would have his ass handed to him pretty handily by Cthulhu, since he's greatly diminished in power, and is far more of a cunning strategist and trickster archetype than an OMGEATYOURFACE beasty like Cthulhu.

[Zevox]

Originally Posted by Mikeavelli

The Valar are creatures whose direct interference in the world tends to accidentally break it, as shown during the War of Wrath.

The War of Wrath didn't involve any Valar, actually. Just Maiar, and a lot of powerful creatures corrupted by Morgoth (most of the Balrogs, lots of Dragons, Sauron, etc). And of course Elves, but I doubt they had anything to do with the whole continent-breaking thing.

Zevox

[Myrmex]

Originally Posted by hamishspence

It is an alternative possibility- though its rare to see "nuclear" used to mean "central".

It's also rare to see the following words:
eldritch
cacodaemoniacal
lucubration
cyclopean
mouldering

Unless you're reading Lovecraft.

[hamishspence]

this is a good point.