Heroes of might and magic!

[SandroTheMaster]

Originally Posted by Miklus

This is my problem exactly. And if you loose your main stack and your best hero, you are done for. But otherwise the game is fun!

You're not even close to know true madness. Heroes 5 campaigns might range from silly to retarded at no discernible pattern (although it gets a bit better in the expansions, strangely the exact opposite of how Heroes 4 went), but I can attest that: these campaigns are HARD. I'm not kidding. One of the very first demands to Nival after the release was an "easy" difficulty setting for the campaigns. People literally wasn't getting past the first one. Millions of people.

When the game is finally generous enough to give you a ridiculously powerful Hero in the Sylvan (Rampart) campaign, they mercilessly give you some of the most ridiculously unfair battles and scenarios ever imagined. At one point you have to manage to somehow survive a necropolis Hero with THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of skeleton archers from day 1 (BTW, getting Skeleton archers as favored enemy in this campaign, but specifically this map, is pretty much forced upon you). They take full advantage of the fact that they KNOW the (veteran) player will use all the tricks he has in his sleeve, even considering the nerfed dimension door and hero-chaining in this equation, so you're pretty much forced to use these exploits just to get by instead of having an easier time.

Playing these campaigns in the hardest setting is one of the most masochistic TBS experiences out there.

[TheSummoner]

So... I tried going for units before income and I liked the way it worked for me. Defintaly worth doing again ^_^

[MickJay]

Originally Posted by SandroTheMaster

When the game is finally generous enough to give you a ridiculously powerful Hero in the Sylvan (Rampart) campaign, they mercilessly give you some of the most ridiculously unfair battles and scenarios ever imagined. At one point you have to manage to somehow survive a necropolis Hero with THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of skeleton archers from day 1 (BTW, getting Skeleton archers as favored enemy in this campaign, but specifically this map, is pretty much forced upon you). They take full advantage of the fact that they KNOW the (veteran) player will use all the tricks he has in his sleeve, even considering the nerfed dimension door and hero-chaining in this equation, so you're pretty much forced to use these exploits just to get by instead of having an easier time.

Playing these campaigns in the hardest setting is one of the most masochistic TBS experiences out there.

I've finished the whole original game on Normal almost without cheats (and went about halfway through on Hard before I got bored), but I simply had to cheat to get past that one Sylvan mission where your isolated starting city is being attacked every week or so by a fresh necromancer army, while your main hero's supposed to be conquering the mainland. To add insult to the injury, one of the optional goals is to garrison a number of troops in the first city. When you manage to do that, there's a cutscene in which the main hero says something like "here's a garrison to weather any siege". Convinced that he was telling the truth, I rushed to the mainland. A few days later a new necro army appeared out of the portal and crushed the "undefeatable" garrison and its hero without any problems.

[SandroTheMaster]

Originally Posted by MickJay

I've finished the whole original game on Normal almost without cheats (and went about halfway through on Hard before I got bored), but I simply had to cheat to get past that one Sylvan mission where your isolated starting city is being attacked every week or so by a fresh necromancer army, while your main hero's supposed to be conquering the mainland. To add insult to the injury, one of the optional goals is to garrison a number of troops in the first city. When you manage to do that, there's a cutscene in which the main hero says something like "here's a garrison to weather any siege". Convinced that he was telling the truth, I rushed to the mainland. A few days later a new necro army appeared out of the portal and crushed the "undefeatable" garrison and its hero without any problems.

Yeah, that map is the second worst behind the one with the unbelievably large army.

The secret here is the secondary hero. At the start you need your primary protecting the castle and give an army to the secondary to get a bit of XP in chests and wandering monsters. The aim here is to get Destruction Magic and at least advanced Avenger with these two abilities: Imbue Arrow and Hail of Arrow (it was in this map I learned that trick). Also, build up your magic guild up to 4th level and the castle to have a better protection.

Once set, switch the Heroes and go advance in the map with your main and let the secondary protecting. The most important thing is to have Treants and forcing the AI into the moats, that is, waiting until he destroys a wall section or two. Placing the Treants at the gates before the wall is open is also good, as the enemy can only attack him with 2 units before being forced into the moat.

Now, the greatest trick here is the Hero, as I said. Get 3 undead creatures as favored enemies. At the start of combat, cast imbue arrow with either Meteor Swarm or Chain Lightning (either is bound to appear at a sylvan mage guild level 4), then go merry in your way with Hail of Arrows.

That way you're always causing a lot of damage to the enemy armies at your Hero's turn, and your creatures have a large chance of causing double damage against his most worrisome stacks (under your discretion). Also, accumulating the Avenger bonus with luck doesn't hurt. If you get some spell power artifact in the beginning all the better, but if not, get enlightenment to try and remedy the Ranger's below average Spell Power. War Machines with First Aid is a must for conserving troops, but Imbue Balista is also neat. Finally, sorcery with arcane training and Arcane Brilliance helps a lot, as well as either Defense and Attack secondary skills.

[Dhavaer]

How do I get Markal to curse the Academies with the Staff and make them into Necropolises?

[MickJay]

As far as I remember, you get the option automatically on conquering Academies, as long as you have the resources to perform the ritual (I'm not sure about cursing the cities after they've already been captured).

[Eldan]

For the first time I've just played the campaign for Heroes V for more than half a mission. Is it just me or is it absolutely hilarious?

Queen: "Hey. You are the elven general, right?"

Huge dude in glowing spiky red armor with inverted pentagram symbols and skulls: "No, not really."

[Poil]

To be fair it's an easy mistake to make.

In the spirit of this thread I booted up Heroes 3 and tried to beat the campaigns but got stuck on the first mission of Restoration of Enrath. Not from the difficulty but how mind numbingly dull it was. The neutral monster armies are so tiny they're not worth to bother with, the hero level cap is ludicrously low, most of the map is spent sluggishly moving through snow at a snails pace and the AI just keeps sending hero after hero leading uselessly small armies at me.

[SandroTheMaster]

Originally Posted by Poil

To be fair it's an easy mistake to make.

In the spirit of this thread I booted up Heroes 3 and tried to beat the campaigns but got stuck on the first mission of Restoration of Enrath. Not from the difficulty but how mind numbingly dull it was. The neutral monster armies are so tiny they're not worth to bother with, the hero level cap is ludicrously low, most of the map is spent sluggishly moving through snow at a snails pace and the AI just keeps sending hero after hero leading uselessly small armies at me.

Of course it is easy. That is pretty much the Tutorial campaign, and it is pretty easy and designed as the training-wheels for the rookie player. Don't worry, there's a mission against the dungeon at some point (but it may be in the Armageddon Blade campaigns) where the dungeon has a castle advantage and you're stuck for a while in the starting area, so when you meet him you're at quite a population disadvantage.

@ Eldan: Yes, it is THAT stupid. But mainly, the real offender is the Queen. They really made her cartoonishly Stupid. Very. As well as the Sylvan hero is cartoonishly goody. And the Inferno is cartoonishly evil at times. Still, it has its moments. Especially in the Necromancer campaign and when you're playing with Agrael, later. Still, be prepared. The campaign gets truly HARD, depending on your difficulty setting. And the Sylvan campaign probably gets the prize there.

[Eldan]

Well, I finished the human campaign on hard. I'll probably have to go down to easy for the elves, from what I keep hearing.

[SandroTheMaster]

Oh, there are some proper strategies to use with the Sylvan, and the powerful hero they give you sure helps. Still the sylvan campaign is designed in such way you really need to make use of their Avanger skill and making a great Sylvan build for your main hero. In the last map the main had max luck and elven luck (with Soldier's luck), and a secondary hero where I got the ultimate Sylvan skill (100% luck), and still it was a close call.

[Ellardin]

In the Spirit of this thread I dug Up my Heroes of Might and Magic II Game , and just beat the King Roland Campaign ....I am just wondering .....do they ever Transmute Archibald's Stone Statue back into Archibald himself , in any of the later games ? (Roland Cast Flesh to Stone on his Evil Brother Archibald for those just wondering)

[Argeus]

Can we also discuss the series that spawned it all, Might and Magic from 1 through 8, here? Oh, and don't bother about the 9th. They say it's godawful.

[Ellardin]

I actually started with 2 , I played it with a friend when he came down from toronto at his grandma's house ....but that christmas my parents purchased Heroes I for me , and I though it was equally as good . However , I don't remember the Campaign that well . Also , Did anyone play the original King's Bounty that came with Heroes I when you downloaded the game onto your computer ..

[gamerkid]

Originally Posted by Argeus

Can we also discuss the series that spawned it all, Might and Magic from 1 through 8, here? Oh, and don't bother about the 9th. They say it's godawful.

I tried to play the first 5 games, but I never could understand them...

[Argeus]

For some reason, whenever I think of M&M and 3DO, I get a feeling of deep regret. Jon Van Caneghem and his fellows could have easily become the Square-Enix of Western RPG, had they not made so many delibitating errors in developing their later games.

[factotum]

Originally Posted by Ellardin

do they ever Transmute Archibald's Stone Statue back into Archibald himself , in any of the later games ?

That happens during the events of Might and Magic VI (e.g. the RPG, not the turn-based strategy game)--the player has to turn Archibald back into flesh because he's the only one who knows a vital piece of information for completing the plot. He also pops up in Might and Magic VII--don't remember if he's in VIII or not. I don't think he turns up in any game in the Heroes series other than II, though.

[MickJay]

I played King's Bounty, I mostly remember that there's a very nasty trap you might fall into later in the game: once you've increased the unit cap sufficiently (usually on the third or fourth continent), you can recruit a really formidable army back in the first castle - but because it requires support, the soldiers might desert you before you've got a chance to use them against a major enemy. Basically, the main difficulty in game (beside the time limit) lies in determining how large an army you need to defeat the final enemy.

[Morty]

Originally Posted by Argeus

Can we also discuss the series that spawned it all, Might and Magic from 1 through 8, here? Oh, and don't bother about the 9th. They say it's godawful.

I wouldn't say it's godawful. You can play it without feeling too bad. It's just that there's so many better things you could do. Sadly, it's the only M&M game I've ever played. I once considered starting playing M&MVII, but nothing came out of it. I loved hearing that when you lose in M&M1 it's over without a reload, though. Good old days.

[Poil]

Some time ago one of my friends discovered a neat tactic the AI was accidentally using on him in HoMM 5, dwarves spamming the Armageddon spell. In retrospect it's obvious since their level 5, 6 and 7 monsters are immune to fire.

Another humorous thing is that Sylvan heroes can use the:
Imbue Arrow (you cast the selected spell everytime your hero makes an attack),
Ballista (you get control of the ballista and it gets a second shot)
Triple Ballista (ballista gets a third shot)
Imbue Ballista (Imbue Arrow also affects the ballista)

In the current hot seat game I'm running with a friend my main hero, who has a lot of knowledge, has just picked up the War Machines skill and filled up Destruction after I found out my magic guild sported Implosion. This could be fun.

[gamerkid]

Anyone know some way to get rid of grand elves quickly at low-teirs? I hate those blasted things, always making a mess out of my armies.

[MickJay]

Third game in the series? Try fighting them on autoresolve, or [mass] hasting your own units, and remember to use terrain obstacles and range penalty to reduce damage. Blind or Forgetfulness also help.

[gamerkid]

Originally Posted by MickJay

Third game in the series? Try fighting them on autoresolve, or [mass] hasting your own units, and remember to use terrain obstacles and range penalty to reduce damage. Blind or Forgetfulness also help.

Thanks, and yes, number 3, its the best one,except for the balance issues.

[Tirian]

Originally Posted by Argeus

For some reason, whenever I think of M&M and 3DO, I get a feeling of deep regret. Jon Van Caneghem and his fellows could have easily become the Square-Enix of Western RPG, had they not made so many delibitating errors in developing their later games.

That's not really JvC's fault. M&M died at the same time as the Ultima and Wizardry franchises. It was a rough time for western RPGs, because FPS was bowling over players and reviewers every six months and they seemed to demand the same amazement from RPGs. I don't think that JvC t deserved the criticism he got for building M&M 6-8 from the same strong engine, but he did so he made 9 ... well, different. (Like Morty said, it isn't god-awful. Ultima VIII was god-awful. It's a step down to be sure, but you can play M&M9 through to the end, which puts it above the original in my eyes.)

[Scylfing]

I've been giving HoMM4 a replay and, while I realize the game doesn't get a lot of love from the community, I'd like to ask if anyone has any suggestions on how to properly handle the Death faction?

I'm just focusing on campaigns--so far I've beaten Nature's (kinda meh) and Order's (freaking awesome) and would like to work on Death's but, since the castle has both living and undead units, and therefore has guaranteed morale penalties if you mix them, I'm not sure what direction to go with it.

[Dhavaer]

Any recommendations for favoured enemies in the Ranger campaign?

[Jamin]

Originally Posted by Scylfing

I've been giving HoMM4 a replay and, while I realize the game doesn't get a lot of love from the community, I'd like to ask if anyone has any suggestions on how to properly handle the Death faction?

I'm just focusing on campaigns--so far I've beaten Nature's (kinda meh) and Order's (freaking awesome) and would like to work on Death's but, since the castle has both living and undead units, and therefore has guaranteed morale penalties if you mix them, I'm not sure what direction to go with it.

Umm.. all of death's units are immure to the moral penalties of undead units

[Ellardin]

I tried playing heroes IV , I wasn't impressed . I guess I am just tooo Fond of the Heroes of Might and Magic 2 and 3 styles .

[MrChris]

I remember playing a lot of the first three Heroes games back in the day, as well as the first six Might and Magic games back in my misspent youth. I kind of got the impressions that with the fourth Heroes game, and some of the later M&M RPGs, that the designers were trying to keep the franchise from stagnating, without shaking it up to the point it ran off the rails; it's a shame they didn't quite succeed in that effort.

Nevertheless, I'm another one of those folks who liked Heroes 3 the best. The balance between heroes and castle types was quite good, and it was the first game in the series to give each hero a unique ability to differentiate them from others of the same class. I also liked the little biographies for each hero; as rudimentary as they were, they added a nice bit of flavor to the game. I also liked the structure of the original single-player campaign. It provided justification to have the player use each of the troop types available in the game, and also kept the narrative fairly interesting. While you, as the player, had to win every scenario, you were playing as a different side in each segment of the campaign, so it wasn't like one side was winning constantly.

By comparison, in Heroes 2, I never could understand the incentive for the player to switch sides halfway through the campaign. If you're constantly beating the opposition and gaining various bonuses for your side, why would you want to give up everything you've won to fight on the losing side?

For the record, I tended to prefer playing the Inferno troops in Heroes 3, for all the aforementioned reasons. Yes, the ranged troops were awful, but the sheer number of demons and imps one could field were quite impressive. I recall that devils had middle-of-the-road statistics for top-tier troops, but they still performed pretty well for me, and the fact that enemies couldn't retaliate them really helped their kill-to-casualty ratio.

I have fond memories of the original Heroes, as well, since it was quite unlike anything else which on the market when it was released (with the exception of King's Bounty, of course). The last few scenarios of the campaign in that one were kind of a slog, though, especially those where you only had one opponent who had a massive home-field advantage. I played through the campaign as the Warlock, which did give rise to my favorite degenerate strategy: build up to dragons as quickly as possible, build up the mage guild to learn Storm or Armageddon, and rely on those spells, in conjunction with the dragons' magic immunity, to wipe out every enemy army before they can kill my single stack of dragons. It felt almost like cheating, but I say it's perfectly acceptable to use cheap tactics as a counter to cheap scenario design.