Rebellion|Revolution: A Webcomic

[memnarch]

Heh.

If you want to use pepper spray, I'd think that would be more of a brownish colour.

[Szilard]

Woohoo! Party on page two!

[DarkCloud]

Comic 2 Second line of panels- the Sgt. Becomes a Captain??
--
I must say, the alternating faceless graphical style suits this comic well. I like its artsiness in both chosen high concept and graphics.

Good Luck.

~DC.

[BRC]

Originally Posted by DarkCloud

Comic 2 Second line of panels- the Sgt. Becomes a Captain??

I've fixed it, but it stubbornly refuses to be fixed (I deleted the old image, uploaded a fixed one, and even replaced the links, but it's still leads to the old version)

In the meantime my reasoning will be that the DSF blames the shooting on a panicking Sergent, while the Rebels blame it on a Captain.

Edit: What High concept, this is a comic about Armpit farts.

[memnarch]

Refresh your cache. That might work.

[DarkCloud]

Re: Refreshing Cache.

I never opened the comic before today, however, so I do not see why that should work. I can try that, though. Thank you.

>>In the meantime my reasoning will be that the DSF blames the shooting on a panicking Sergent, while the Rebels blame it on a Captain.

The first time I read it, that was what I thought as well.
However, the words "that same captain" made me think it might be a mistake.

High Concept: Love Interests Hide Secrets as One Struggles For Freedom and Another Struggles For Stability, set against the backdrop of a police-state revolution.

Sort of... I do not really know what you have planned.

[memnarch]

Originally Posted by DarkCloud

Re: Refreshing Cache.

I never opened the comic before today, however, so I do not see why that should work. I can try that, though. Thank you.
...

Hm, probably not then, if you've never seen the pic before. :\

[BRC]

Originally Posted by DarkCloud

High Concept: Love Interests Hide Secrets as One Struggles For Freedom and Another Struggles For Stability, set against the backdrop of a police-state revolution.

Sort of... I do not really know what you have planned.

Actually, my plan was for the rest of the comic to focus around armpit farts. But I like your idea better, i'll go with that

I knew what you were talking about before, I was making a joke, but I love the way you described it.

Re: The Comic, here's the link I have up there now, I thought I'd fixed that particular issue a while back, but I might have forgotten too.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w.../RebRev1p2.png
http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w...=RebRev1p2.png


Edit: Wait, High- concept work with deep themes...I'm a beret and a black turtleneck away from being the pretentious artiste of the fan comics forum.

[BRC]

Comic Up! This is a big one, plot significance-wise, please comment.
This would have been a great place to end the chapter (Which I still need to name), but by the time I made it it was too late, too much other stuff needs to happen this chapter for us to end here.

[memnarch]

Cool. Nice work.

[BRC]

Oooh, also, I just remembered.
I need to name this first chapter. Currently I'm considering
Megaphone|Microphone (This one will make sense later)
The Jackal Laughs
A Story Needs a Beginning

Also: Moar Comments!

[BRC]

Lack of comments depresses the BRC. I know people are reading this, tell me what you think of the comic so far.

So this post isn't just random comment begging, I have some artwork, two new characters (well technically they've been in the comic already, but only as faceless mooks. I only recently decided to make them proper characters who will show up later as part of something called "Foxhound Unit", but I'm getting ahead of myself.
Here they are.

[An Enemy Spy]

Originally Posted by BRC

Oooh, also, I just remembered.
I need to name this first chapter. Currently I'm considering
Megaphone|Microphone (This one will make sense later)
The Jackal Laughs
A Story Needs a Beginning

Also: Moar Comments!

The Jackal Laughs has a good sound to it.

[BRC]

Hey everybody, I got a surprise for you! Click it to see the surprise!

I'll do these occasionally, and update the character's spoiler in the first post to include them.

Questions? Comments?

[BRC]

On second thought, I should have waited abit to post that.

It's technically Monday, which means it's NEW COMIC TIME!
This ends the Inspiring Speech portion of the chapter. Onwards to Violence!
Also, Comments Please, ect ect blah blah blah.

[memnarch]

A fairly good motivational speech.

[BRC]

You know, there arn't any rules against multiple posters commenting on the same thing.

Anyway, here's a character, I don't know if he'll actually show up, but he's got some hefty plot significance.(Click for Charsheet)

[Szilard]

That speech was sort of motivating. I sort of forgot what it said because I read it yesterday, but I remember it being good. If that makes sense.

[Mad Mask]

Very good strip, BRC. That inspirational speech was awesome.

I may not comment much, but I love this comic, especially the ambiguity between the two sides. I hope you'll preserve this until the very end, true Grey and Gray morality being fairly rare (most of the time, there's a side that's more right than the other, even by a little margin).

[Green-Shirt Q]

Originally Posted by Mad Mask

I may not comment much, but I love this comic, especially the ambiguity between the two sides. I hope you'll preserve this until the very end, true Grey and Gray morality being fairly rare (most of the time, there's a side that's more right than the other, even by a little margin).

Personally I find "grey and gray" morality to be QUITE annoying, and doesn't make for a good, compelling story. Because when boths sides are perfectly grey, there is absolutely nobody you can route for, or care about in the slightest. Nobody you worry about not winning, because both sides are equally evil.

Of course, slightly less grey on one side can lead to a thought-provoking story about how maybe the protaginists aren't as good as they think, yet still give us a PROTAGINIST to route for. An interesting hero can be created when one must do the right thing, despite the fact that it has some wrong things wrapped around it. But when nobody has ANY moral highground whatsoever? It's just not as interesting.

Then again, if this is somehow seen as a positive thing by your man followers, I wouldn't recommend changing it. I personally don't get if, but if everybody else does then keep up the good work, I suppose.

[Szilard]

Maybe the point is that you have to figure out which side is the best. Which is the worst. Which is more brutal and violent. Which has the better views. Which is the lesser of two evils. Which is the greater good. It is up to you who is best. Maybe.

[memnarch]

It's not really Grey and Grey morality in my opinion; it's more like Grey and darker Grey morality.

[BRC]

Originally Posted by The Q

Personally I find "grey and gray" morality to be QUITE annoying, and doesn't make for a good, compelling story. Because when boths sides are perfectly grey, there is absolutely nobody you can route for, or care about in the slightest. Nobody you worry about not winning, because both sides are equally evil.

Of course, slightly less grey on one side can lead to a thought-provoking story about how maybe the protaginists aren't as good as they think, yet still give us a PROTAGINIST to route for. An interesting hero can be created when one must do the right thing, despite the fact that it has some wrong things wrapped around it. But when nobody has ANY moral highground whatsoever? It's just not as interesting.

Then again, if this is somehow seen as a positive thing by your man followers, I wouldn't recommend changing it. I personally don't get if, but if everybody else does then keep up the good work, I suppose.

It's less that there is no moral highground, it's that there are two moral high grounds, each equally high.

Let me say it here, both of the Protagonists, James and Maria are, at least in my mind, Heroes, or at the very least well intentioned, just working from different perspectives. Neither are exactly shining paragons of justice, but this isn't Vader vs Sauron (Though I would personally pay quite a lot of money to see that). This isn't going to be one of those stories where everybody is a villain and you are choosing between the guy who wants to stab you and let you bleed, or the guy who wants to strap you to a chair, cover you in gasoline, and light you on fire.

Now, that's not to say there are not villains here, both sides have villains. There are going to be Loyalists who love nothing more than grinding somebodies face into the ground with their boot, and Rebels who just want to see the world burn. But there are also Rebels who are fighting because they are trying to overthrow a tyrannical government, and there are Loyalists who are fighting because they believe the nation's fate should not be handed over to a group of people simply because they are armed and angry. You could say each side is equally evil, but you might as well say they're both equally good.
If it bugs you that I'm not showing one side shooting puppies while the other feeds orphans, I can recommend an excellent film for you, it's called Star Wars, they color code the villains for you. I recommend you start with part four. Not that theirs anything wrong with having a clear hero and villain, I just decided I didn't feel like doing that.

Also, I gave you a mini-cameo. Apparently in Reb|Rev universe you have a radio show! You can only see the top of the poster, with your name and a bit of your hair(Thedore Que, The Q, see what I did there!), the rest got covered up by a wall of text.

Concerning the Speeches. I had written Maria's broadcast some time in advance, and had written it into the plot from the beginning, so it got alot of thought. James's speech was a more spur of the moment thing. At first it was just him explaining the plan, it then turned into an inspirational speech at the last minute. It probably sounds a lot better in my head, with properly dramatic vocal inflections.

Also, random creative process nonsense that nobody besides me cares about.

Spoiler

Uncle Martin was a recent creation, well kind of.
To keep with the whole Parallels thing, I needed both my protagonists to be decent combatants. Yeah their main role is going to be as leaders rather than fighters, but a good fight scene is just too nifty to pass up in a story like this. Giving James combat skill was easy, he's received training, throw on a little natural talent and Boom.

But Maria posed a problem. I could give her natural talent, but the idea of an angry waitress holding her own against trained, better equipped professionals on a regular basis just bugged me. I wanted a good fight between equals, Knife versus Nightstick.
I looked to the seven years between the Mutiny and the Riot, she had to be staying with somebody during that time, an Uncle fit, maybe she learned how to fight from him.
For a while this Uncle sat in my head as an Arms dealer or criminal of some sort, but that jut bugged me for some reason. Inspiration struck in the form of a class I'm taking about 20th century Europe, specifically the bit in the beginning called World War One. I'd always imagined the Long War as being WWI-ish, a meatgrinder that wore away without much purpose, throwing in a little bit of trench warfare fit perfectly. The Death Wishers just grew out of that.
And Boom, I had Maria's fight teacher. Martin would have plenty of combat experience, especially with the close-quarters knifework I imagined Maria doing. He could also be the sort of person who, upon being informed he's now in charge of raising his brother's daughter, decides it's a good idea to teach her how to use a avoid gunfire and use a knife. His experiences drove him crazy, made him paranoid. When he walks through a narrow hallway, he might have trouble remembering he's not storming a Radian communications trench with enemies lurking behind every corner. For somebody like that, teaching Maria to fight would be like teaching her to look both ways before crossing the street.

As I wrote the Bio, I built his image in my mind. This was somebody who went to War and was selected to become a Trench Raider. I played Dragon Age recently, and the dwarven Legion of the Dead leaked in a little when I thought up the Death Wishers. While most soldiers stay in large groups, Death Wishers were supposed to get as deep as they can into enemy trench networks. Numbers wouldn't be much help in the narrow trenches, so I pictured them using small groups, three or four at most. Their job was to get as deep as they could in these groups of four and cause as much damage as possible before getting pulled back, which means hoping the line holds long enough for you to get out before the enemy closes back up and you're trapped. If they survive, it just means doing it again tommorow. You'd have to be crazy to do that, so they manufacture crazy people. You use psychology, propoganda, drugs, whatever to get them into the proper mental state. They don't fear death because they're already dead. They wear skulls and proclaim themselves Dead Men Walking. They live every day like it's their last because it probably is. They don't think about going home, because they don't expect to get there.

Take somebody who is trained and conditioned to think like this, to think that nothing matters except the destruction of the enemy, stick him in a PoW Camp for a couple months, and you've got somebody like Martin Ruspyzn. The War took him in, chewed him up, and spit him out broken. It ruined his life, but it reshaped him so thoroughly that he can't let him go. He still wears his uniform coat, and instincts honed in the trenches refuse to let him go anywhere without a Gas Mask handy.
I tried to show this with the artwork presented on the character sheet, of the bright, grinning soldier shown gleefully slaughtering his way through the Trenches, and the broken man he became, constantly paranoid, unable to sleep. Hating the War, but still trapped by it. His body is hunched, his eyes are rimmed, his hair is thinner, more ragged, and rapidly approaching Gray.

Also, I could have Maria call him Uncle Mar. Mar, as in Mars, god of War. See what I did there.

Okay, this post turned out a LOT longer than I imagined. Thanks for the comments everybody, sorry about the constant comment-begging, but making these things is hard work, and I have far more important things I should be doing with my time. Seeing people respond helps remind me that I'm not just throwing these things out into the void.

[X2]

Originally Posted by The Q

Personally I find "grey and gray" morality to be QUITE annoying, and doesn't make for a good, compelling story. Because when boths sides are perfectly grey, there is absolutely nobody you can route for, or care about in the slightest. Nobody you worry about not winning, because both sides are equally evil.

Of course, slightly less grey on one side can lead to a thought-provoking story about how maybe the protaginists aren't as good as they think, yet still give us a PROTAGINIST to route for. An interesting hero can be created when one must do the right thing, despite the fact that it has some wrong things wrapped around it. But when nobody has ANY moral highground whatsoever? It's just not as interesting.

Then again, if this is somehow seen as a positive thing by your man followers, I wouldn't recommend changing it. I personally don't get if, but if everybody else does then keep up the good work, I suppose.

Boy you've got the whole emphasis range on show here. Bolding, capitals, italics... Its like an emphasis opera!

[Darklord Bright]

This comic has what I call "Polka-dotted Morality". It's the kind of morality that I think is the best, because it shows you two sides, and shows you that it is not the "sides" that have morality attached to them ("Colour coded", as BRC said about Star Wars.), but individuals or groups in both sides who are coloured a darker or lighter shade than others. Hence polka-dots.

It's easier to work with black and white morality, but far less interesting. It's like being told "these people are all bad, and these people are all good." and you don't have any reason to care about the "Bad" people when in a realistic scenario there would always be reasons.

That's why BRC has done a nice job here. Having taken history, I'm rather familiar with a lot of the revolutions that have taken place over the more modern years, and this really captures that feeling of "Is anybody really right or wrong?" quite well.

Personally, however, I tend to side with the ideals of BRC's "Loyalists" a lot easier, even though I know both sides can be equally as kind and ruthless.

It is a lot more of a challenge than working with black and white, and bravo to you, BRC, for doing it well.

[Green-Shirt Q]

Originally Posted by BRC

If it bugs you that I'm not showing one side shooting puppies while the other feeds orphans, I can recommend an excellent film for you, it's called Star Wars, they color code the villains for you. I recommend you start with part four. Not that theirs anything wrong with having a clear hero and villain, I just decided I didn't feel like doing that.

Also, I gave you a mini-cameo. Apparently in Reb|Rev universe you have a radio show! You can only see the top of the poster, with your name and a bit of your hair(Thedore Que, The Q, see what I did there!), the rest got covered up by a wall of text.

I don't need it friggen colour-coded for me. I just personally think that a story benifits from a protagonist and an antagonist. Really though, if both sides are equally evil or both sides are equally good then either way I think it's difficult to route for either one, or to care.

I had a cameo? *scans comic*
You mind pointing it out for me? I think I might have missed it.
[EDIT] Never mind. I found it. Thanks BRC.
Although, when you said what I had to do to get this cameo (get punched in the face in my next review, I think) I deliberately diddn't do it. Yet I got the cameo anyway? Not that I'm ungrateful or anything.

[BRC]

Originally Posted by The Q

\
I had a cameo? *scans comic*
You mind pointing it out for me? I think I might have missed it.
[EDIT] Never mind. I found it. Thanks BRC.
Although, when you said what I had to do to get this cameo (get punched in the face in my next review, I think) I deliberately diddn't do it. Yet I got the cameo anyway? Not that I'm ungrateful or anything.

Well, originally you were going to be the guy on the radio. I was going to show the rebels breaking into the station, knocking you out, and stealing your microphone.

As it is, I needed something to spice up the background a little, so I made a quick poster.
Edit: Wow, that star wars comment came off a lot more condescending that I intended it. Sorry.

[Szilard]

Maria's speech being planned and the officer-who's-name-I-can't-remember's speech being spur of the moment seems to fit the comic. She probably planned her speech whereas the officer had to come up with a quick plan and quickly motivate them. He didn't have time to come up with a speech and edit it. In fact, yesterday morning I was actually thinking that a motivational speech written in a book or in a movie should be spur of the moment, an once written in the script, go unchanged, to perserve the authenticity and reality that the speech was just made or just off the top of their head. Unless the officer planned this speech beforehand, my point is moot.

[BRC]

Originally Posted by Szilard

Maria's speech being planned and the officer-who's-name-I-can't-remember's speech being spur of the moment seems to fit the comic. She probably planned her speech whereas the officer had to come up with a quick plan and quickly motivate them. He didn't have time to come up with a speech and edit it. In fact, yesterday morning I was actually thinking that a motivational speech written in a book or in a movie should be spur of the moment, an once written in the script, go unchanged, to perserve the authenticity and reality that the speech was just made or just off the top of their head. Unless the officer planned this speech beforehand, my point is moot.

The officer's name is James. James Bartana and Maria Ruspyzn. I don't know where these names come from, and I'm not entierly sure how to pronounce Ruspyzn, but there they are.

As for the speeches, I hadn't really thought about it that way, but I suppose it makes a lot of sense. In fact, it makes so much sense that I'm declaring it my official explanation.

[T-O-E]

Originally Posted by The Q

I don't need it friggen colour-coded for me. I just personally think that a story benifits from a protagonist and an antagonist. Really though, if both sides are equally evil or both sides are equally good then either way I think it's difficult to route for either one, or to care.

Antagonists are not necessarily evil and protagonists are not necessarily good. The main characters of both sides are... Both.

If that makes sense.