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Old 06-07-2009, 03:58 PM   Top  -  End  -  #1
JoshuaZ
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Default The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

The Narrow Bridge was first studied by an order of monks who studied the border of life and death. The practitioners of The Narrow Bridge understand that death and life are more closely intertwined than most realize. Those trained in the proper martial arts can cross the narrow bridge that separates life from unlife. While most practitioners of The Narrow Bridge are living, it is not uncommon for undead martial warriors to also dabble in the techniques.

Although the discipline involves much use of negative energy and undeath, it also involves the use of positive energy and the ability to combat the undead. It is thus not wholly evil, but a mix of powers.

The great masters of the discipline realized the ease at which the discipline could be abused and so were very careful to not teach the discipline to many outsiders. Traditionally, a master would take on a single disciple at a time, one whose ethics and outlooks matched those of the master. However, over time the discipline has slowly become more widely practiced.

The Narrow Bridge was never taught at the Temple of Nine Swords. Due to its association with necromancy and the undead, Reshar disliked the discipline and thus never dedicated much time studying it although he did locate a master who was willing to teach him the basics. In addition to his own dislike, the highly specialized nature of much of the discipline and the reticence of masters to teach it has stopped many martial warriors from taking too much effort to master its techniques.

The associated skill of The Narrow Bridge is knowledge(religion).

The associated weapons are the bastard sword, battleaxe, greataxe, scythe, unarmed strike, and whip.

All Narrow Bridge maneuvers are supernatural unless stated otherwise.

There are two ways to master the discipline. The first is to have been trained in it. If you choose to make a martial adept that has already been trained in the Narrow Bridge discipline at character creation, you simply replace one discipline that adept could normally learn maneuvers from with the Narrow Bridge discipline. Note that The Narrow Bridge should generally be considered a replacement discipline for swordsages and then crusaders. The supernatural nature of the discipline make it potentially inappropriate as a as a starting discipline for warblades.

The other way is to seek out a master of the Narrow Bridge discipline–a martial adept capable of using at least 5th-level maneuvers from the discipline. You must train for a month under the master and spend 1,000 xp at the end of your training. You gain the ability to learn maneuvers from the Narrow Bridge discipline. In addition, you may exchange your maneuvers known for maneuvers of the Narrow Bridge discipline. You may exchange one maneuver of each level, and the new maneuvers you learn must be of the same level as the exchanged maneuvers, unlike normal. The difficulty of finding an appropriate mentor is left to the DM to choose.

Last edited by JoshuaZ : 02-17-2010 at 12:46 PM. Reason: Add The Demented One's method
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Old 06-07-2009, 04:00 PM   Top  -  End  -  #2
JoshuaZ
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

The Narrow Bridge Manuever List

1st Level
Death to the Living: Strike- Deals 1d6 negative energy damage.
Peaceful End: Strike- deals extra damage against undead and deathless targets.
Soulshield: Stance- protects against effects from undead and death effects.
Live Without Life: Strike-Deals 1d6 damage and prevents the target from being healed.
Empower the Dead: Stance- Gives bonuses to allied undead.

2nd Level
Disrupt Necromantic Power: Strike- deals 2d6 extra damage against undead, deathless or beings capable of casting necromancy spells.
Putrefy the Flesh Strike-Deals extra damage over the course of multiple rounds depending on the creature type.
Fear of Death: Strike- Targets must make a will save or be frightened for 1d4 rounds.
Cross the Bridge: Stance - Mindless undead treat you as undead and you take less damage from some forms of vile damage.
Blind the Dead: Strike- Undead subject to this strike are unable to see you.
Burn the Dead: Strike-Targets take extra fire damage and undead with light vulnerability take further damage.

3rd Level
Strength of Life: Boost- Gain 1d10 temporary hit points +1 per an initiator level.
See Those who Have Yet to Die: Stance-Duplicates the Deathwatch spell.
Harness The Soul's Power: Strike-Gain effects similar to the spell Death Knell that you may keep for yourself or give to an ally.
Pierce Soul: Strike-Target must make a fortitude or be paralyzed.
Rebuking Blow: Strike-Target is subject to a rebuke undead attempt by a cleric of your initiator level.
Turning Strike: Strike-Target is subject to a turn undead attempt by a cleric of your initiator level.
Walk the Narrow Bridge: Stance- You are effected less by both negative and positive energy.

4th level
Momento Vixisti: Strike- Target undeas takes various penalties as it recalls life.
Life Drain: Strike- Target takes 1d6 extra damage and half the damage from the attack is changed into healing energy you may bestow on yourself or an ally.
The Flesh Still Lives Strike- Strike deals an extra 4d6 vile damage.
Die to Serve Strike- Strike deals extra 3d6 damage and if the target dies it becomes a temporary zombie which serves you.
Guardian of the Dead Stance- it becomes harder to rebuke or turn allied undead and non-allied undead have trouble creating spawn within 100 feet of you.
Disrupt the Flow Strike-Undead struck have their effective hit die for turning and rebuking purposes reduced by a function of a knowledge(religion) check.

Shared Souls Stance- You and designated allies do not fail saves unless all of you fail the saves.
Stand Against Death Counter- you substitute a knowledge religion check for a save against an undead being.

5th level
Even the Dead Fear Death: Strike- Undead take 5d6 damage + 1 per an initiator level and must make a will save or be panicked.
None Truly Control the Dead Forever: Strike - Target must make a will save or lose control of undead it controls.
Preserve the Soul: Stance- Duplicates the effects of the Death Ward spell.

6th level
Slash the Spirit Strike- Deals extra damage against incorporeal undead and ignores the miss chance against incorporeal beings.
Reflect Death: Counter- Reflects back against foe any death effects you are subject to.
Embrace the Vampire: Stance- gain DR 10 /silver or magic and other vampiric bonuses.
Scream of the Dying: Strike deals sonic damage and on target must make a will save or be shaken.

7th level
Return to the Grave: Stance- Allows you to make critical hits against undead.
Rebuke the Controller: Strike- Deals 6d6 damage to an undead being and deals extra damage to anyone controlling it.
Final Rest Strike- You deal 6d6 extra damage and undead must make a will save or be destroyed.


8th level
Fear of the Coming Oblivion: Strike- You deal 10d6 extra damage and the target must make a will save or be panicked.
The Flesh Crawls Strike- You deal an extra 12d6 damage and half the damage from the attack is vile damage.
Destroy the Source Strike destroys an undead target as well as its spawn.


9th level
Life is Precious: Strike- Deals an extra 15d6 damage and the target must make a fortitude save or die.

Last edited by JoshuaZ : 06-16-2011 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 06-07-2009, 04:06 PM   Top  -  End  -  #3
JoshuaZ
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

The Narrow Bridge Maneuver List

First level
Spoiler


2nd level
Spoiler


3rd level

Spoiler


4th level

Spoiler


5th level

Spoiler


6th level

Spoiler


7th level

Spoiler


8th level

Spoiler


9th level

Spoiler

Last edited by JoshuaZ : 06-16-2011 at 06:38 PM. Reason: missing "is"
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Old 06-07-2009, 04:09 PM   Top  -  End  -  #4
Trodon
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

wow this is cool i will probably use this in a game
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Old 06-07-2009, 04:15 PM   Top  -  End  -  #5
unosarta
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

um, just so you know, no class gives access to stances past about 8th level ones, mostly because there are no ninth level stances. which means that embrace the wraith will only be useable with a feat, or with crazy prestige classing.

unless you are eventually going to write up a base class for them, in which case, I will just be wrong.
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Old 06-07-2009, 04:18 PM   Top  -  End  -  #6
JoshuaZ
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

Quote:
Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
um, just so you know, no class gives access to stances past about 8th level ones, mostly because there are no ninth level stances. which means that embrace the wraith will only be useable with a feat, or with crazy prestige classing.

unless you are eventually going to write up a base class for them, in which case, I will just be wrong.
No. That was deliberate. Incorporeality at will is extremely powerful. It was intended to only be easily taken by either an epic character or someone who burned a feat slot. (The other option I thought of was to have it at 8th level but only have it be usable a certain amount of time daily which doesn't fit with the general way stances function).
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:12 AM   Top  -  End  -  #7
JoshuaZ
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

Ok. I've cleaned up the wording of some of the maneuvers. I'd appreciate input on the balance level. In particular, I'm worried that the discipline might be broken in an undead heavy campaign and too weak in a campaign without many undead. I think the maneuvers focusing on living beings help make up for that but I'm not sure.

So any other concerns, comments or criticism?
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Old 06-16-2009, 08:51 AM   Top  -  End  -  #8
Iferus
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

How does one gain these maneuvres? Is it all available to any martial character? This discipline requires a feat to enter- perhaps something for you to consider?
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Old 07-09-2009, 12:05 PM   Top  -  End  -  #9
JoshuaZ
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iferus View Post
How does one gain these maneuvres? Is it all available to any martial character? This discipline requires a feat to enter- perhaps something for you to consider?
Possibly. I know that one common method people use when they let a martial adept take a different discipline is just swap it out for one of the disciplines they would have normally. However the truth is that there's nothing unbalanced with just letting them take additional disciplines as they please. In fact, a character who takes maneuvers from a wide variety of disciplines will actually generally be slightly weaker than a character who focuses on a few. This is because the character will have difficulty qualifying for that many high level maneuvers.

In any event, if one is using a non-standard discipline one should presumably also have some sort of RP explanation for where one picked it up from.

What I'd really like is some feedback on the power level. I'm not sure if this is overpowered, underpowered or just right.

Last edited by JoshuaZ : 07-09-2009 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 07-09-2009, 12:43 PM   Top  -  End  -  #10
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

I'm kinda rushed right now, but what I can tell you is this:

- DCs for maneuvers work much like spells' DCs, it's 10 + Maneuver Level + Ability modifier. So your DCs should also follow that rule. Ie: Momento Vixisti has a base DC of 12, it should be 14.
- You have too many maneuvers. It makes for a discipline with a lot more versatility than others, which results IMO in a much stronger Discipline.
- When you describe your Maneuvers, you should really precise if a "Single Melee Attack" or a "Melee Attack" is required, or it could lead to confusion and slow down play when at the table. It could also lead to some abuse by players.

Aside from those things, as I see it now, it's really flavorful. When I get more time, I'll read more in detail.
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Old 07-09-2009, 04:56 PM   Top  -  End  -  #11
JoshuaZ
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedrass View Post
I'm kinda rushed right now, but what I can tell you is this:

- DCs for maneuvers work much like spells' DCs, it's 10 + Maneuver Level + Ability modifier. So your DCs should also follow that rule. Ie: Momento Vixisti has a base DC of 12, it should be 14.
- You have too many maneuvers. It makes for a discipline with a lot more versatility than others, which results IMO in a much stronger Discipline.
- When you describe your Maneuvers, you should really precise if a "Single Melee Attack" or a "Melee Attack" is required, or it could lead to confusion and slow down play when at the table. It could also lead to some abuse by players.

Aside from those things, as I see it now, it's really flavorful. When I get more time, I'll read more in detail.
Ok. Fixed the DCs and specified single melee attack when intended.

Regarding the number of maneuvers: Is that really going to be an issue? So many of the manuevers are highly specialized and aren't going to be useful aside from very narrow circumstances (roughly half are basically useless if there aren't any undead or deathless around). If it is a problem is there any way to fix it? I'm loathe to simply remove material.

Edit: If I took Iferus's suggestion and required a feat to take the maneuvers would that be enough to deal with the versatility from the large number of maneuvers?

Last edited by JoshuaZ : 07-09-2009 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 07-20-2009, 05:42 PM   Top  -  End  -  #12
JoshuaZ
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

Ok, I've added a feat requirement and cleaned up some of the maneuvers. What do people think now?
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:01 PM   Top  -  End  -  #13
Death's Shadow
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

First I would like to say, excellent discipline.. now I have one concern.

Why are you requiring an adapt to possess a feat to gain access to a discipline? Yes the discipline has a good number of maneuvers that have to be chosen by a Swordsage, Crusader or Warblade that fits within the Swordsage's maximum of 25 known, Crusader's 14 and a Warblade's 13 as well as compete against the myriad of other disciplines both from the ToB as well as from Homebrewed sources. But my concern is that by requiring them to have one feat to gain access to an excellent discipline may very well push them towards other disciplines like the ToB's Tiger Claw or the homebrewed Black Lotus or others that do not have this restriction thus freeing up a feat for usage and becoming all the more appealing.

I do like the idea of having to use a feat to gain access to the 9th tier stance, first one I have seen, Congrats.

I plan on playing a Swordsage that uses this discipline very soon in fact and just wanted to voice my concern on the one fact.
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Old 07-21-2009, 10:09 AM   Top  -  End  -  #14
JoshuaZ
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death's Shadow View Post
First I would like to say, excellent discipline.. now I have one concern.

Why are you requiring an adapt to possess a feat to gain access to a discipline? Yes the discipline has a good number of maneuvers that have to be chosen by a Swordsage, Crusader or Warblade that fits within the Swordsage's maximum of 25 known, Crusader's 14 and a Warblade's 13 as well as compete against the myriad of other disciplines both from the ToB as well as from Homebrewed sources. But my concern is that by requiring them to have one feat to gain access to an excellent discipline may very well push them towards other disciplines like the ToB's Tiger Claw or the homebrewed Black Lotus or others that do not have this restriction thus freeing up a feat for usage and becoming all the more appealing.

I do like the idea of having to use a feat to gain access to the 9th tier stance, first one I have seen, Congrats.

I plan on playing a Swordsage that uses this discipline very soon in fact and just wanted to voice my concern on the one fact.
Well, feel free to ignore the feat requirement if you don't like it. It was suggested by some of the individuals in the thread. Could people give more input on whether or not they feel a feat or some other special requirement should be necessary?
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Old 07-21-2009, 10:33 AM   Top  -  End  -  #15
PairO'Dice Lost
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshuaZ View Post
Well, feel free to ignore the feat requirement if you don't like it. It was suggested by some of the individuals in the thread. Could people give more input on whether or not they feel a feat or some other special requirement should be necessary?
Honestly, the discipline choices are flavor more than anything else. The warblade is the tough, skilled fighter-replacement, the crusader is the divine-inspired, defensive paladin-replacement, and the swordsage is the mystical, mysterious monk-replacement...so the warblade is the only one with tough, skilled Iron Heart, the crusader is the only one with the divine-inspired, defensive Devoted Spirit, and the swordsage is the only one with the mystical, mysterious Desert Wind, Setting Sun, and Shadow Hand.

The real measure of balance here is the number of disciplines they have access to--you can always pick up maneuvers from an out-of-class discipline with feats and PrCs, and the existing synergies don't really apply to new disciplines. If you swap out an existing discipline for this one, you definitely don't need a feat. If you just give it out to anyone, you probably don't need a feat; all three initiators get it, so like Stone Dragon it's not anyone's schtick and so doesn't really need to be protected.

I'd say let anyone access it without a feat, personally, but it's your call.
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Old 07-22-2009, 04:41 PM   Top  -  End  -  #16
JoshuaZ
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

Ok. I've removed the feat requirement and cleaned up some wording further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death's Shadow View Post
I plan on playing a Swordsage that uses this discipline very soon in fact and just wanted to voice my concern on the one fact.
Well, I'm currently between games so please let me know how it turns out.
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Old 07-23-2009, 11:37 AM   Top  -  End  -  #17
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

Personally, I'd stay with the feat requirement to take it since it has so many maneuvers; it's quite a versatile discipline. The Unquiet Twilight homebrew discipline is similar, but more about evil necromancy than balance. All in all, I quite like this. I'll bookmark it and may well use it.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:56 PM   Top  -  End  -  #18
Eloel
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

I would make it an alternate choice for Devoted Spirit myself. "Upon entering Crusader class, the initiator must choose either Devoted Spirit or The Narrow Bridge discipline to master. The other discipline becomes barred to the initiator" kinda thing.
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:28 PM   Top  -  End  -  #19
Apropos
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

This seems to be more of a Swordsage discipline than anything else. And I think(hope) that was the creator's intention:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshuaZ View Post
All Narrow Bridge maneuvers are supernatural unless stated otherwise.
I don't know about you, but I was pretty sure swordsages were the only ones who normally get supernatural maneuvers.

Although I would really just allow it to be swapped for any discipline the same way most of the homebrew disciplines are. Because, as the OP mentioned earlier, the discipline is very circumstantial and spreading out maneuver choices over different disciplines makes your character severely weaker.
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:18 PM   Top  -  End  -  #20
JoshuaZ
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apropos View Post
This seems to be more of a Swordsage discipline than anything else. And I think(hope) that was the creator's intention:


I don't know about you, but I was pretty sure swordsages were the only ones who normally get supernatural maneuvers.

Although I would really just allow it to be swapped for any discipline the same way most of the homebrew disciplines are. Because, as the OP mentioned earlier, the discipline is very circumstantial and spreading out maneuver choices over different disciplines makes your character severely weaker.
It probably would be a Swordsage discipline. I suppose since this is getting added to The Age of Warriors book, I should maybe just throw in The Demented One's wording for alternate disciplines with the caveat that it should normally be applied just to swordsages.

Edit: Done.

Last edited by JoshuaZ : 02-16-2010 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 02-17-2010, 02:48 AM   Top  -  End  -  #21
DracoDei
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

Demented One's mechanic still allows for a discipline to be limited to specific classes, it just says how those classes get access to it, so that crusaders don't end up with too many options (since their lack of options is one of the things that balances them).
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Old 02-17-2010, 11:49 AM   Top  -  End  -  #22
JoshuaZ
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
Demented One's mechanic still allows for a discipline to be limited to specific classes, it just says how those classes get access to it, so that crusaders don't end up with too many options (since their lack of options is one of the things that balances them).
Hmm, that actually raises an issue I had not thought about. Although the discipline seems thematically ok for crusaders, it is a very flexible discipline (a lot of maneuvers and a lot of variation in the type of damage dealt). Is letting crusaders have access potentially wrecking their balance?
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Old 02-17-2010, 12:41 PM   Top  -  End  -  #23
DracoDei
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

I had the same concern about Falling Anvil (does Bludgeoning, Electricity, and Fire, all at range, plus a host of negative status effects and defenses). The message I seemed to be getting from people was "Don't worry about it." Then again Falling Anvil (of the classes in the actual ToB) is aimed at Sword Sages, so you might take that with a grain of salt. You might say that you have to give up TWO other disciplines to access it, but I don't really know.
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Old 02-17-2010, 12:48 PM   Top  -  End  -  #24
JoshuaZ
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
I had the same concern about Falling Anvil (does Bludgeoning, Electricity, and Fire, all at range, plus a host of negative status effects and defenses). The message I seemed to be getting from people was "Don't worry about it." Then again Falling Anvil (of the classes in the actual ToB) is aimed at Sword Sages, so you might take that with a grain of salt. You might say that you have to give up TWO other disciplines to access it, but I don't really know.
Hmm, probably fine then. There are three maneuvers that are relevant for this purpose, one that deals fires, but mainly to undead, one that deals sonic, and one that dispells magic. So probably ok.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:40 PM   Top  -  End  -  #25
Danzig
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Lightbulb Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

(in character) Hi there, I'm Danzig Nyttafjell, battlemage, and self-proclaimed Nemesis of the Dead.
(out of character) Great discipline, I love how it can cut both ways ...That said, I don't suppose you could include more anti-undead themed maneuvers? It does seem to favour necromancy and creation/bolstering/control of the undead more than combating them. Like, for instance at 8th level, another straight-up anti-undead strike would go really well. Among other levels...

Just something to chew on.
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Danzig Nyttafjell, the Prince of Ulthar
Male Ascendant Tiefling Battlemage 3 (at the moment)
Str 18, Dex 16, Con 15, Int 20, Wis 15, Cha 12

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Last edited by Danzig : 07-02-2010 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:28 PM   Top  -  End  -  #26
JoshuaZ
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig View Post
(in character) Hi there, I'm Danzig Nyttafjell, battlemage, and self-proclaimed Nemesis of the Dead.
(out of character) Great discipline, I love how it can cut both ways ...That said, I don't suppose you could include more anti-undead themed maneuvers? It does seem to favour necromancy and creation/bolstering/control of the undead more than combating them. Like, for instance at 8th level, another straight-up anti-undead strike would go really well. Among other levels...

Just something to chew on.
Well, there's actually a discussion going on in the Age of Warriors thread about reducing the total number of maneuvers because it is already larger than standard for a discipline. I don't think fitting in more would really be a great idea at this point (although I agree that an 8th level anti-undead strike would be nice).
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Old 07-02-2010, 07:42 PM   Top  -  End  -  #27
Danzig
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Lightbulb Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

"Shout... shout... let it all out... these are the things I can do without..."

In response to the calls for this discipline to pare back some of the maneuvers, I present a short list of the maneuvers and stances you could afford to lose, IMO (with reasons).

Avoid Death's Touch - Already have a decent anti-undead stance at 1st level, also this is too dependent on movement, and the payoff really isn't that impressive either.

Channel The Power - Too dependent on either the presence of a cleric in the party, or having cleric levels.

Blind The Dead - Why blind the dead when you can simply do extra damage to them, or destroy certain ones outright?

Fear of Death - Fear is no guarantee of victory in and of itself, and indeed, certain targets are completely immune to fear effects. There's a discipline out there that could use a fear effect like this and it's more in line with the theme, but I can't recall the name off the top of my head.

Scream of the Dying - Sonic damage is more in line with a sound-based discipline like Lost Lyrics or Holy Word, and shaken isn't really worth it for one target. Once again, the fear immunity of certain targets would apply here.

All Things Come To An End - Doesn't really fit with the theme of this class (undeath), being more suited for something like Solaris Arcanum

Stand Against Death - Sure, a counter that replaces a save against certain attacks is handy, but it's only a counter against one attack. And the save bonus isn't that impressive.

Momento Vixisti - First, undead can't be stunned or dazed, and secondly, even if they were, it's no guarantee they are even that helpless. Certain undead (like for instance Angel of Decay) have dangerous abilities that are active non-stop.

The Flesh Still Lives - With a few exceptions, vile damage seems to be more the province of evil magic rather than necromancy (especially corrupt magic). Not to mention, being able to do 1 less die of non-vile damage and raise the slain target as a zombie (Die To Serve) seems like a much more attractive option, as does Life Drain.

Chill of Death - Cold damage, while having the image of "chill of the grave " to it, would be better suited to a discipline like Placid Lake (which utilizes cold). Unless, however, you were going for something approximating Kelgore's Grave Mist or Chill Touch...?

Embrace The Wraith - Honestly, no discipline I've ever seen has had anything at 9th level besides one mighty strike. Although, I did see one which had four of those at 9th level. This would be better as an epic feat for this discipline.

Now, as to my recommendations, I would say that to balance it out, every level (except 9th) should have at least two or more anti-undead maneuvers or stances, to balance out the pro-necromancy stuff. If a level has a necromantic stance like Embrace The Vampire, it should have the antithetic opposite as a stance available.

This would mean there would be a few anti-undead maneuvers added to the higher levels to balance it out, as the lower-level ones are adequately represented. 8th level is sorely lacking, especially.

Just my two cents, hope the input helps.... \m/
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"Ten thousand zombies versus me? ...They're gonna need more zombies."
-Danzig Nyttafjell, casually lighting a cigar and surveying the battlefield below

Badass Prince of Ulthar avatar by Serpentine

Danzig Nyttafjell, the Prince of Ulthar
Male Ascendant Tiefling Battlemage 3 (at the moment)
Str 18, Dex 16, Con 15, Int 20, Wis 15, Cha 12

R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio... God loves all His children.
Revelation 21:6 (KJV)
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Old 07-03-2010, 08:03 AM   Top  -  End  -  #28
DracoDei
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

I don't think you should cut anything. Do the 2 for 1 if necessary, but don't cut out anything unless it really is something that really doesn't work in the first place.

Having skimmed the first part of the previous post I would say that lack of options other than dealing damage (or the occasional SoD) is a PROBLEM that most people have with melee types. Thus "Blind the Dead" is exactly the sort of thing that SHOULDN'T go.
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Last edited by DracoDei : 07-03-2010 at 08:11 AM.
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Old 07-03-2010, 11:47 AM   Top  -  End  -  #29
Danzig
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

DracoDei, I'm with you on the "don't cut anything", but if we needed to, those are just my choices for cutting. I understand JoshuaZ has created a discipline that cuts both ways when it comes to undeath. Since the character I play is a vampire hunter and a warblade in addition to being a battlemage (a homebrew class I posted at both D&D wikis), and he quests in a largely-undead city ruled by a vampire lord, you can understand my interest in this class. That's why I spoke up about balancing it more to reflect his statement, about the Narrow Bridge not being just about evil necromancy, but a mix of powers. Since we apparently have to do a little pruning back on the number of maneuvers in this discipline in the first place before we could add anything, that's why I wrote the list I posted.

I'll be watching to see what else happens here....
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"Ten thousand zombies versus me? ...They're gonna need more zombies."
-Danzig Nyttafjell, casually lighting a cigar and surveying the battlefield below

Badass Prince of Ulthar avatar by Serpentine

Danzig Nyttafjell, the Prince of Ulthar
Male Ascendant Tiefling Battlemage 3 (at the moment)
Str 18, Dex 16, Con 15, Int 20, Wis 15, Cha 12

R.I.P. Ronnie James Dio... God loves all His children.
Revelation 21:6 (KJV)
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Old 07-03-2010, 12:13 PM   Top  -  End  -  #30
DragoonWraith
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Default Re: The Narrow Bridge (3.5 undeath themed ToB discipline)

Maybe make two related disciplines, one pro-undead, the other anti-undead, but make them accept each other as pre-requisites? Might work.
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