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I've taken a closer look at shields, now that I have a new melee centered cleric.
This kind of cleric focuses on sword and board fighting and my DM therefore does not want me to use a buckler. But in order to cast in combat, I need a free hand.
Now the choices are the following:
Buckler: 1 AC, free hand for spells, weapons or any other item.
Light: 1 AC, free hand for items and spells.
Heavy: 2 AC, no free hand, can't cast.
Tower: 4 AC, no free hand, can't cast.
What struck me as odd was the fact that a light shield and buckler have the same AC, yet the buckler is superior in most ways. You can wield a weapon two handed or use an offhand weapon, which is not possible with the other shields. You can't bash with a buckler, but there are very few classes that do anyway.
So, why does a light shield only have 1 ac, and not 2, if it is inferior to a buckler?
If you gave the light shield 2 ac and the heavy shield 3 ac, it would make some sense.
Edit: Yes, I do now about somatic weaponry (complete mage), but I'd rather not use another feat for a class that doesn't have so many in the first place.
I noticed this problem back in the day, & I house-ruled that Light Shields provide +2 AC & Heavy Shields provide +3 AC. As for the RAW versions, I'd chalk it up for incompetence on WotC's part.
It is a legacy issue. If you look at the pattern of development it works like this:
OD&D (1974): Shield +1 AC
AD&D (1979): Small Shield +1 AC, Large Shield +1 AC/+2 AC versus missiles
AD&D (1989): Buckler +1 AC/+0 AC versus missiles, Small Shield +1 AC, Large Shield +1 AC/+2 AC versus missiles
D20 (2000): Buckler +1 AC, Small Shield +1 AC, Large Shield +2 AC, Tower Shield (only operates as cover)
D20 (2003): Buckler +1 AC, Small Shield +1 AC, Large Shield +2 AC, Tower Shield +4 AC
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I would use Zeta Kais houserule, as shields are redicolously weak in D&D. In reality, a fighter would deflect far more attacks with his shield than with the armor he wears.
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I would use Zeta Kais houserule, as shields are redicolously weak in D&D. In reality, a fighter would deflect far more attacks with his shield than with the armor he wears.
Yes, but in D&D, no matter how effective your shield might be, you're still better off charging into combat with a two-handed, pouncing, leaping, power attack from horseback using shock trooper to drop your AC into the basement while retaining your full chance to hit.
Or you know, just asking the wizard to deal with it.
If you're willing to burn the feats to get to Agile Shield Fighter, you can make an offhand attack with your shield on a full attack, retain the AC, and only take -2 to all of your attacks that round. In that case, though, you're better off with a heavy shield still.
I believe there are a few classes which only get light shield proficiency, so there's that. But yeah, light shields are up there with hide armor.
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Last edited by Irreverent Fool : 04-07-2010 at 10:00 AM.
Well, the main difference is the price of the shields, anyway.
And even with the AC on the floor, camouflage tactics are still fully effective. So, get improved invisibility or fog spells, and your melee char is good.
Light shields have more hardness/hp. Harder to sunder, which is very good. PCs rarely think to sunder, but monsters do. And shields are easy targets.
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Originally Posted by Flickerdart
But you can't ride in a pack saddle unless you're an object. So better switch to Female.
Don't forget that a buckler can't work on ALL the enemies surrounding you. While the shield helps against them all.
Irreverent, you realize you're using every bit of improvement that the 2HF gets and comparing it to a core sword and board fighter, right? Sword and board didn't get nearly the love in the additional books that 2HF and TWF got.
But even before leap attack, combat brute, shocktrooper came out, 2HF was still slightly superior to sword and board. (Kills things faster, so they get fewer actions to try and hurt you)
Well, the main difference is the price of the shields, anyway.
Exactly. The point of the light shield is that it is an inexpensive (and lightweight, for those of you who have DMs that care about weight loads) way to boost your armor class at low levels. They are usually sold or thrown away early on, but at level one that extra point to your AC looks pretty good.
Light shields have more hardness/hp. Harder to sunder, which is very good.
No, that's just not true.
Light wooden shield: Hardness 5, 7 hp
Heavy wooden shield: Hardness 5, 15 hp
Light steel shield: Hardness 10, 10 hp
Heavy steel shield: Hardness 10, 20 hp
And the price difference really isn't that much. +1 AC for 4 gp? Even at 1st level that's a huge bargain. Taking armor with 1 less to AC gives you much more than that in gp you save.
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Light wooden shield: Hardness 5, 7 hp
Heavy wooden shield: Hardness 5, 15 hp
Light steel shield: Hardness 10, 10 hp
Heavy steel shield: Hardness 10, 20 hp
I think he's comparing them to bucklers, rather than to heavy shields.
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A light shield can be used as a light weapon to bash with your off hand.
Bucklers can't be used to bash.
and a light shield has it's own special feat to allow you to wield a 2 handed weapon with it , just like a buckler (pike and shield style), but unlike a buckler you could also bash with it. Effectively you can get a 2 handed weapon and an offhand weapon + shield bonus (improved shield bash).
I, if I'm an archer, use a Tower Shield as cover. I plant it into the ground (followed by our Warforged Monk, who is our "pack mule", who plants another 6+) and I have a nice wall of cover.
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I'm not really sure why my DM doesn't want me to use bucklers either. I prefer 2 handed weapons most of the time.
This char is not going to be totally über in one way, but will be well rounded. I'm working on Ordained Champion, which gives some nice melee boosts. But since I plan on taking Power attack, the buckler would be my best option imho.
and a light shield has it's own special feat to allow you to wield a 2 handed weapon with it , just like a buckler (pike and shield style), but unlike a buckler you could also bash with it. Effectively you can get a 2 handed weapon and an offhand weapon + shield bonus (improved shield bash).
In theory yes. It is an ordained champion of heroin and I have to use a longsword.
Only such feat I know of is Improved Buckler Defense, and it works for bucklers, not light shields.
Shield and Pike Style does it for light shields.
The main advantage of Light Shields over Bucklers is you can shield bash with them and they're a light weapon. Combine this with Shield Slam, Shield Charge, Improved Trip, and Pounce, and a Light Shield will look very good indeed.
It's from dragon 338 but only works with a two handed piercing polearm with reach so it's quite limited.
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Explain the light shield to me.
