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Homebrew Design Roll up your sleeves and get working: there's lots of homebrewin' to be done! Post your custom creation for critiques or review those of your peers.

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Old 04-27-2010, 04:05 PM   Top  -  End  -  #1
Jarrick
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Default Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

0-LA race of humanoids descended from vampires. Like a lot of my work, designed with eberron in mind, but easily adapted to fit other campaign settings.

Edit: Note: Still under reconstruction.
Finished. Enjoy.

Description
Spoiler


Stats:
Spoiler


Awakening Traits
Spoiler


Awakening Feats
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Height, Weight, Age
Spoiler


Comments and Critique are welcome.
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Old 04-27-2010, 04:46 PM   Top  -  End  -  #2
ArcanistSupreme
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

First and foremost, nice work. While a lot of the fluff seems to be borrowed from the half-vampire template, it is neatly blended with your original work. Just out of curiosity, do I detect a hint of Twilight?

As far as the crunch goes, it seems pretty decent. There aren't many races that give a Charisma boost. I'm not the best judge of game mechanics, but it appears to be workable without being overpowered. I do have a couple problems with it, though.

First of all, where is the light sensitivity coming from? I know full vampires have problems with it, but half-vampires don't. These guys are supposed to be even less vampire-y than half-vampires, so the light sensitivity doesn't make sense and can be a huge turn-off. My second problem is that aside from this light sensitivity, I don't see much of the vampire in the crunch. The bonus to strength-related skills is mildly interesting, but it is hardly a reason to choose this race that is unlikely to go into classes utilizing this bonus. A race with a bonus to Cha and a hit to Con is unlikely to produce stellar warriors, which are the types that utilize Str-based skills.

What I would like to see here is more of a vampire feel. Maybe look at the half-vampire special abilities and grant the race either the use of these or toned-down versions of them. The ability to turn into a bat/rat/wolf so many times per day could also work. You could also create a whole line of feats based around improving these abilities, similar to Shifter feats.

As for the age section, it looks pretty good and fits thematically, but make sure you mention it in the fluff section! I didn't know these guys were particularly long-lived until I got here, and I think it would be important to add for those that would otherwise skip this section.
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Old 04-27-2010, 05:19 PM   Top  -  End  -  #3
Jarrick
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcanistSupreme View Post
First and foremost, nice work. While a lot of the fluff seems to be borrowed from the half-vampire template,
Caught me
it is neatly blended with your original work. Just out of curiosity, do I detect a hint of Twilight?
NO!

As far as the crunch goes, it seems pretty decent. There aren't many races that give a Charisma boost. I'm not the best judge of game mechanics, but it appears to be workable without being overpowered. I do have a couple problems with it, though.

First of all, where is the light sensitivity coming from? I know full vampires have problems with it, but half-vampires don't. These guys are supposed to be even less vampire-y than half-vampires, so the light sensitivity doesn't make sense and can be a huge turn-off.
Mostly fluff, but also to balance out their resistances and skill bonuses. I was going for no level adjustment, but if you think they don't need it... What does anyone else think?
My second problem is that aside from this light sensitivity, I don't see much of the vampire in the crunch. The bonus to strength-related skills is mildly interesting, but it is hardly a reason to choose this race that is unlikely to go into classes utilizing this bonus. A race with a bonus to Cha and a hit to Con is unlikely to produce stellar warriors, which are the types that utilize Str-based skills.
But it does mean that a night-touched wizard with a 10 str has the same chance of breaking down a door as a human fighter with an 18 str. That was the vampire part. Well, that and the skill and resistance boosts.
Edit: It does now. Forgot to change that back.

What I would like to see here is more of a vampire feel. Maybe look at the half-vampire special abilities and grant the race either the use of these or toned-down versions of them. The ability to turn into a bat/rat/wolf so many times per day could also work. You could also create a whole line of feats based around improving these abilities, similar to Shifter feats.

I couldnt think of anything that wouldn't merit some kind of LA. Maybe the charm gaze, or creatures of the night ability.

As for the age section, it looks pretty good and fits thematically, but make sure you mention it in the fluff section! I didn't know these guys were particularly long-lived until I got here, and I think it would be important to add for those that would otherwise skip this section.
I hate it when you type something and someone skips it, don't you?
Edit: I'll add it in somewhere.
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:35 PM   Top  -  End  -  #4
ryleah
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

How about they gain more vampire powers as they gain HD/levels like the gith do?
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:24 PM   Top  -  End  -  #5
ArcanistSupreme
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarrick View Post
NO!
Sorry. The "dark and brooding" bit made me think of the emo feel of the Twilight vampires. My mistake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarrick View Post
Mostly fluff, but also to balance out their resistances and skill bonuses. I was going for no level adjustment, but if you think they don't need it... What does anyone else think?
Remember, humans get a feat, which is not counterbalanced by anything, and in many cases I would prefer the feat to what this race currently offers by a long shot. To further elaborate, this discourages anyone planning on adventuring outdoors during the day time (99% of adventurers) from choosing this race. It's not a huge hit, but it's annoying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarrick View Post
But it does mean that a night-touched wizard with a 10 str has the same chance of breaking down a door as a human fighter with an 18 str. That was the vampire part. Well, that and the skill and resistance boosts.
Edit: It does now. Forgot to change that back.
At first level, maybe. But then the fighter starts getting Str boosting items and buffs and the wizard gets shatter, making this a fairly weak ability at later levels. Monsters are going to have so much better grapple modifiers and fighter types will have so many skill points invested in Str skills that you won't ever use the ability past level 5.

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Originally Posted by Jarrick View Post
I couldnt think of anything that wouldn't merit some kind of LA. Maybe the charm gaze, or creatures of the night ability.
Remember that a significant portion of the Half-Vampire LA comes from the stat boosts alone. I think the charm gaze, creatures of the night, or even the blood drain ability would all be reasonable, especially if they scaled with level as ryleah suggested. Again borrowing from the Shifters, you could have each Night-touched have one vampiric aspect, and go from there.

Again, I'm not the best person to talk to about game balance, but I do have a rough idea of how things work. You might want to PM some other people and get them to check this out. A lot of people are more than willing to evaluate homebrew stuff if you ask them.
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Old 04-28-2010, 01:31 PM   Top  -  End  -  #6
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

I concour with everyone's comments and say this, Use Shifter as a Mirror. Think about it: Night-Touched vs. Were-Touched. Sweet
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Old 04-28-2010, 03:44 PM   Top  -  End  -  #7
Jarrick
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

Hm... This has given me a lot to think about. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to work on this right now. Basing them off the shifters though... this sounds amazing. I wish i'd thought of it.

Edit:
Quote:
this discourages anyone planning on adventuring outdoors during the day time (99% of adventurers) from choosing this race. It's not a huge hit, but it's annoying.
Makes you wonder why so many people play drow. lol. I'll remove it for now.
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:27 PM   Top  -  End  -  #8
The Anarresti
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

I like the fluff of this class, and would be interested in playing one in the future. Maybe, because the vampires have a spider climb-like extraordinary ability, this race has a climb speed? So far this race seems a bit underpowered to me. EDIT: I think that a climb speed like this (20ft, hands and feet, no running) would be a fair exchange for the strength-skill bonuses, fits with the fluff better, and would remain useful after level five. Just a thought.

Last edited by The Anarresti : 04-28-2010 at 04:31 PM. Reason: I forgot to say something
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:47 PM   Top  -  End  -  #9
Jarrick
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf-Eater View Post
I like the fluff of this class, and would be interested in playing one in the future.
The highest praise a homebrewer can receive.
Maybe, because the vampires have a spider climb-like extraordinary ability, this race has a climb speed? So far this race seems a bit underpowered to me. EDIT: I think that a climb speed like this (20ft, hands and feet, no running) would be a fair exchange for the strength-skill bonuses, fits with the fluff better, and would remain useful after level five. Just a thought.
I'm liking this idea. Maybe I'll make it one of the traits. Check back two days from now, in the evening. I've got some crap to deal with and I'm not going to be able to make any whole-hearted, thought out changes until then.

Any sugesstions in the meantime are welcome though.
I'm definately going the Shifter route. Suggestions for types are more than welcome. There is also more homebrew in my sig I've posted recently, if you're interested.

Edit: If not -2con, which would be a better choice?
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:01 PM   Top  -  End  -  #10
ArcanistSupreme
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf-Eater View Post
I like the fluff of this class, and would be interested in playing one in the future. Maybe, because the vampires have a spider climb-like extraordinary ability, this race has a climb speed? So far this race seems a bit underpowered to me. EDIT: I think that a climb speed like this (20ft, hands and feet, no running) would be a fair exchange for the strength-skill bonuses, fits with the fluff better, and would remain useful after level five. Just a thought.
It will still useful as long as you don't have some means of flight by then. And, as most casters/shapeshifters/people with mounts do, this is again flavorful but not super useful at high levels. Just something to consider.
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:55 PM   Top  -  End  -  #11
Jarrick
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

What about this?

+2 Cha, -2 Wis. Night-touched are exotic and attractive, but aloof, hailing from sheltered lives.

I also need a better name, Night-touched is a little long-winded.

One of their shifting (Called Awakening) options will give them blood drain as a half vampire, should I also include the blood dependency?
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:31 PM   Top  -  End  -  #12
Jack of Spades
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarrick View Post
I also need a better name, Night-touched is a little long-winded.
How about the Thirsting? Or the Restless? They have a touch of dark-and-mysterious to them, and allude to the best-known traits of their ancestors.
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Old 04-28-2010, 11:10 PM   Top  -  End  -  #13
Jarrick
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

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How about the Thirsting? Or the Restless? They have a touch of dark-and-mysterious to them, and allude to the best-known traits of their ancestors.
I like Restless. I was already considering reducing their need to sleep. That name kinda makes me think more "Zombie" than "Vampire" though. Thirsting is good, but innaccurate unless they have blood dependancy. Definately adding both to the list of possibilities either way. Thanks for the input!
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:28 AM   Top  -  End  -  #14
Jarrick
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

Major Changes Posted
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:17 PM   Top  -  End  -  #15
The Anarresti
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

I don't like the "Awakening" ability, just personally. Changing shape is the lycanthropes' main shtick, so it logically follows that watered-down lycanthropes (shifters) would have a watered-down, but similar ability. However, vampire's main shtick is as refined hunters-of-men, not shapeshifters. Note that although they can change shape, they do not have the shapeshifter subtype. The "Awakening" ability I think steps on the Shifter's toes. It also seems to be an extension of the werewolf/vampire false dichotomy.
It just kinda irks me.
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:33 PM   Top  -  End  -  #16
Jarrick
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

It's supposed to represent them tapping into their ancestral powers rather than actually changing shape. They were meant to be a parallel to the shifters. Separate, but equal, and cool to pit against each other.
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Old 04-29-2010, 04:19 PM   Top  -  End  -  #17
The Anarresti
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

Yeah but in RAW D&D a werewolf/vampire dichotomy doesn't exist. Again, sounds a bit too "Twilight" or "Underworld" for my taste. Just personal preference though, feel free to disregard. I just don't see much of a rational for the Awakening ability other than "Shifter has it." I mean, Aasmiers and Tieflings don't have a similar ability, even though they draw their powers from their ancestors.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:08 PM   Top  -  End  -  #18
Forever Curious
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

Personally I'd have it so that, at character creation, you choose one special "vampire ability", kind of like half-vampire but less powerful.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:26 PM   Top  -  End  -  #19
ArcanistSupreme
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

I like the direction this is going, but as some people above have mentioned, careful about stepping on the shifters' toes. Some of these abilities are almost identical to some of the shifter ones, and I think that is something you'll want to avoid. Think of the shifter as a template, but don't turn these guys into a slightly different copy.

What if you keyed the Awakening abilities off of Cha instead of Con? That seems to fit more with the race, both the fluff and crunch, and it would allow them to become undead without a penalty to this ability. I would also change the ability drain of the Feeding trait to ability damage. And what if the Soaring ability turned him into a bat rather than just giving him wings? I'm not sure how exactly to scale this with level (maybe increase the size/add templates or just add feats that do something), but I think it would be cool to look into and would be a bit more original-feeling.

P.S.-What about "Nightborn" as the name?
P.S.S.-Do they see their reflections in mirrors?
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:04 PM   Top  -  End  -  #20
Jarrick
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

Mirrors? I guess so. I don't think they're vampiric enough to not reflect. Maybe they only kind-of reflect, and have to squint to see themselves.

Regarding those traits that are just like shifters, they translate well to vampires, so I just re-used them. The rationale behind the bat wings was that they couldn't turn completely into a bat due to diluted genes. Besides, I didn't want them to show up the shifters. I think I may have already done that with the fast healing. I'm considering reducing that.

Damage and Drain to ability scores aren't a big difference when it targets an NPC, as it's usually dead before it becomes an issue. With that in mind, I'll change it.

When I get around to making the feats, those will likely be rather different than their equivalent shifter feats.

And incidentally, I like vampires vs. lycanthropes.
They need not fight each other though if that's what you prefer. I just wanted them to have similar mechanics so you could pick your favorite because you favor one or the other's ancestors, not because of some mechanical benefit.

And regarding tying the abilities to Cha, I didn't want to tie their most powerful racial traits to a stat that they get an automatic bonus in. DM sense was tingling. Someone please tell me if i'm wrong.

I like the name Nightborn. Strongly considering that for the name.

I'm going to have some time off from work soon. I'll work on it more thoroughly then. Until then, suggestions are more than welcome. In fact they're requested.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:07 PM   Top  -  End  -  #21
Jarrick
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf-Eater View Post
I mean, Aasmiers and Tieflings don't have a similar ability, even though they draw their powers from their ancestors.
They might have, now that you've got me thinking about it...
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:43 PM   Top  -  End  -  #22
Jarrick
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

Awakening Feats up along with a few minor changes. Light sensitivity came back to help mitigate the many advantages of this race. Nerfed fast healing a little.

I'm very pleased with what this has become. I think its come a long way thanks to the input of the many helpful folks here in the playground. Thank you all.

Comments and critique are welcome as always, but I'm pretty happy with it the way it is. If you can think of any specific way that this can be broken to hell and back, let me know and I'll consider a revision.
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Old 05-01-2010, 05:12 PM   Top  -  End  -  #23
ArcanistSupreme
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarrick View Post
FEEDING ELITE [NIGHT-TOUCHED]
Prerequisite: Night-touched with the Feeding trait.
Benefit: While awakened, you drain 1d4 points of constitution when you successfully pin your foe.
I would change the wording to "With a successful pin, you now deal 1d4 points of constitution damage while awakened." This eliminates possible confusion with damage vs. drain. Some flavor text would be nice too.

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Originally Posted by Jarrick View Post
NIGHT-TOUCHED AGILITY [NIGHT-TOUCHED]
Your heritage of speed and grace has honed your reflexes, allowing you to avoid attacks.
Prerequisite: Night-touched with the Creeping, Alacritous, or Soaring trait.
Benefit: You gain a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class and a +1 bonus to Reflex saves while shifting.
Careful with the copying and pasting there, bud.

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Originally Posted by Jarrick View Post
NIGHT-TOUCHED SENSES [NIGHT-TOUCHED]
Your discerning tastes and social skills combined with your vampiric senses let you notice things that others might miss.
Prerequisite: Night-touched
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on Sense Motive, Search, and Spot checks, and a +2 bonus on initiative checks.
I would label this as a "Racial" feat rather than "Night-Touched," as they are slightly different things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarrick View Post
NIGHT-TOUCHED STAMINA [NIGHT-TOUCHED]
Yours is a heritage of undead survivability. As such, you can shrug off bruises and fatigue.
Prerequisite: Night-touched with the Deadflesh, Dustmote, or Rising trait.
Benefit: While awakened, you are immune to nonlethal damage, and the effects of fatigue and exhaustion are suppressed. When your awakening ends, any fatigue or exhaustion effects that would have taken effect during your shifting (or that were in effect when you began shifting) take effect normally.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarrick View Post
RISING ELITE [NIGHT-TOUCHED]
Prerequisite: Night-touched with the Alacritous trait.
Benefit: While awakened, your fast healing granted by your rising trait improves to fast healing 5.
Do you mean "Night-touched with the Rising trait"?

All in all, it looks pretty good. I still don't like the light-sensitivity, and would rather see low-light vision go then get stuck with it, but you have the last say. Now we just need some cool PrCs to go with it!
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:32 PM   Top  -  End  -  #24
Jarrick
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

Oops. Didn't proofread. I'll fix that.
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Old 05-02-2010, 08:11 AM   Top  -  End  -  #25
Jarrick
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcanistSupreme View Post
Now we just need some cool PrCs to go with it!
YES! Like the Weretouched master, but it makes you more like a real vampire! The gravity of the awesome of this didn't hit me until now! I must get started!

Edit: Err, umm. that class doesn't translate well in this case... This is going to be harder than I thought.
-__-;
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Old 05-02-2010, 09:06 AM   Top  -  End  -  #26
ArcanistSupreme
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

While you won't be able to directly copy, I think it is still possible to draw on the basic concept. You could divide the Night-touched by their area of focus (bloodsucking, persuasion, stealth, etc.) and then come up with related bonuses/feats that make them closer to actual vampires. I would also recommend taking a look at the vampire spawn monster class in Libris Mortis for additional ideas.
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:26 PM   Top  -  End  -  #27
Jarrick
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NecromancerGuy
 
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

Well, the biggest problem with this race vs. the shifters is that the shifters can come from different animals and get their variety in the weretouched master PrC by differentiating between the different animals. Vampire, on the other hand, is one creature. These guys already have a means of becoming more vampiric. If they get all the traits, then, while they're awakened at least, they will have everything a vampire gets minus the slam, energy drain, create spawn, bonus feats, alternate form, children of the night, and weaknesses. So maybe what's needed is an accelerated means of aquiring these traits/feats and maybe some of what they're missing. That way, for a few minutes a day at least, they can be almost as overpowered awesome as regular vampires. The trick is levels vs power.

Edit: Hm... That's 15 feats to do it that way. that's a long PrC... even with one feat a level. This would make an awesome char concept though I think, especially with a high BaB and some decent skills. I'd play it.

Edit Edit: 10 times per day for 19+Con rounds each if you then take the other four feats too. By that point it might as well be at will. Grr... I'm not sure I can make this work. I might be better off making a vampire monster class. But then again, you'd be level 20 by then so... I dunno.
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Old 05-02-2010, 08:18 PM   Top  -  End  -  #28
Jarrick
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NecromancerGuy
 
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

What's that prestige class that gives you the choice of gaining +1 level to spellcasting or a fighter bonus feat every other level? I need to look at that mechanic again. It's relavent.

Edit: Thrall of Demogorgon. Never mind.

Edit Edit: I'm getting frustrated with this project. I'm out of meaningful ideas. The way its looking, it's going to be easier to just find a vampire and acquire the vampire spawn monster class to become more vampiric. You'd get more and at lower levels and less book-keeping for the exchange of a few hit dice.

If someone else wants to make the Vampiric Ascendant PrC, be my guest though.
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"To play a fighter is to play the game.
To play a wizard is to understand the rules.
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Last edited by Jarrick : 05-02-2010 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:40 PM   Top  -  End  -  #29
ArcanistSupreme
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

What if the capstone is actually adding the vampire template, but without the weaknesses? You'd have to add in a clause about the feats applying to vampire abilities, but that shouldn't be too hard. And it'd be really cool...
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:52 PM   Top  -  End  -  #30
Jarrick
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NecromancerGuy
 
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Default Re: Vampiric descendants: Night-touched

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcanistSupreme View Post
What if the capstone is actually adding the vampire template, but without the weaknesses? You'd have to add in a clause about the feats applying to vampire abilities, but that shouldn't be too hard. And it'd be really cool...
Because then it would be like 12 levels of nothing to justify the now larger because of no weaknesses level adjustment and then Boom, you're a vampire. Either that or you try to cram everything a vampire gets into a PrC that's 13-15 levels long...

But...

What if you omitted the ability score adjustments? Then it might be workable...

But I'm bored with this project, I've moved on to a new base class project. I'm better at those than I am PrCs. Go ahead and make it if you want, you have my blessing to do so.
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