Roleplaying GamesThe all-purpose forum for general advice or system-independent (or multi-system) discussion. Come discuss adventure plots, gamemastering dilemmas, or player advice here. For ruleset-specific discussions, see the subforums.
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
In the Monster Manual, I believe. "Always" means 99% of the time, Usually means like, 66%, and Often is at least 33%.
__________________
MUNDUM MENTI Since I don't want to bring it up every thread I'm in, my games only allow material from books I have physical copies of. I do not use the SRD.
Books Owned:
Spoiler
Player's Handbook
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Monster Manual III
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Complete Warrior
Draconomicon
Frostburn
Libris Mortis
Lords of Madness
Planar Handbook
Sandstorm
Savage Species
Unearthed Arcana
Races of the Dragon
Races of Stone
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Okay thanks.
Hmm. My plan just might work.
Also, at least according to my copy it doesn't specify percentages. It says more than 50% for Usually, 40-50 for often and "There are exceptions but they're rare" for always.
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Ah. I didn't actually look in the book for those numbers. Just a rough approximation that says essentially the same thing.
__________________
MUNDUM MENTI Since I don't want to bring it up every thread I'm in, my games only allow material from books I have physical copies of. I do not use the SRD.
Books Owned:
Spoiler
Player's Handbook
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Monster Manual III
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Complete Warrior
Draconomicon
Frostburn
Libris Mortis
Lords of Madness
Planar Handbook
Sandstorm
Savage Species
Unearthed Arcana
Races of the Dragon
Races of Stone
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho
Ah. I didn't actually look in the book for those numbers. Just a rough approximation that says essentially the same thing.
Yeah. You're right. However, there's one specific passage I'm interested in. It says an always x creature may come from a plane that predetermines their alignment. Would this mean that if the creature were taken off of that plane before they were born (such as with a tarterian dragon) would that affect their alignment or does being native to a plane automatically make you the same alignment as that plane?
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Not nessicarily. After all, if fiends and the like had literally no ability to control their alignment, they'd default to neutral like animals, since they essentially lack moral capacity. They don't do evil for any reason, it's just what they do.
But since they AREN'T neutral, that means that free will is involved. Sure, they grow up in a culture that is utterly and unflinchingly evil, sure they have a genetic disposition towards it, but it would be possible for even a Pit Fiend to decide for whatever reason to be Chaotic Good. It's just almost unheard of, hence the "Always".
__________________
MUNDUM MENTI Since I don't want to bring it up every thread I'm in, my games only allow material from books I have physical copies of. I do not use the SRD.
Books Owned:
Spoiler
Player's Handbook
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Monster Manual III
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Complete Warrior
Draconomicon
Frostburn
Libris Mortis
Lords of Madness
Planar Handbook
Sandstorm
Savage Species
Unearthed Arcana
Races of the Dragon
Races of Stone
Last edited by Drakevarg : 05-19-2010 at 08:57 PM.
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Ah okay. Hmm. The only problem with my plan is trying to find a Pyroclastic dragon egg, hatching it, and passing the checks I'll need to. Oh yeah, and not attracting the wrath of mama and papa (I have very good reason for wanting a Pyroclastic dragon.)
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuubi
(I have very good reason for wanting a Pyroclastic dragon.)
OTHER than the fact that they're awesome?
__________________
MUNDUM MENTI Since I don't want to bring it up every thread I'm in, my games only allow material from books I have physical copies of. I do not use the SRD.
Books Owned:
Spoiler
Player's Handbook
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Monster Manual III
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Complete Warrior
Draconomicon
Frostburn
Libris Mortis
Lords of Madness
Planar Handbook
Sandstorm
Savage Species
Unearthed Arcana
Races of the Dragon
Races of Stone
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho
Not nessicarily. After all, if fiends and the like had literally no ability to control their alignment, they'd default to neutral like animals, since they essentially lack moral capacity. They don't do evil for any reason, it's just what they do.
But since they AREN'T neutral, that means that free will is involved. Sure, they grow up in a culture that is utterly and unflinchingly evil, sure they have a genetic disposition towards it, but it would be possible for even a Pit Fiend to decide for whatever reason to be Chaotic Good. It's just almost unheard of, hence the "Always".
Free will isn't part of D&D alignments, which is why some mindless things like skeletons are evil.
__________________
Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuubi
Yeah. You're right. However, there's one specific passage I'm interested in. It says an always x creature may come from a plane that predetermines their alignment. Would this mean that if the creature were taken off of that plane before they were born (such as with a tarterian dragon) would that affect their alignment or does being native to a plane automatically make you the same alignment as that plane?
Please consult the table below:
d4
result
1
nature
2
nurture
3
both
4
roll again twice
[Edit]: Realized the horror that is d3 and updated to d4, which is a funny die indeed.
__________________
Quotes:
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus
Also fixed the money issue by sacrificing a goat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by subject42
This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukitsu
I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukitsu
Free will isn't part of D&D alignments, which is why some mindless things like skeletons are evil.
"Moral capacity" is the exact wording used in the PHB to explain why all animals are True Neutral. Skeletons are evil because they literally RUN ON EVIL. They don't have moral values, its they just happen to be powered by the tears of orphans.
Besides, the only one you need to convince is the DM.
__________________
MUNDUM MENTI Since I don't want to bring it up every thread I'm in, my games only allow material from books I have physical copies of. I do not use the SRD.
Books Owned:
Spoiler
Player's Handbook
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Monster Manual III
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Complete Warrior
Draconomicon
Frostburn
Libris Mortis
Lords of Madness
Planar Handbook
Sandstorm
Savage Species
Unearthed Arcana
Races of the Dragon
Races of Stone
Last edited by Drakevarg : 05-19-2010 at 09:08 PM.
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuubi
The only problem with the D3 is it doesn't exist.
They do actually, you can buy them in the shops. 6 sided with two 1s, two 2s and two 3s. I just use a d6 personally.
__________________
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuubi
The only problem with the D4 is that it doesn't roll very well.
Make it from rubber and toss it as hard as you can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuubi
The only problem with the D3 is it doesn't exist.
Why you even bother to bring up such a minor detail I'll never know.
__________________
Quotes:
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus
Also fixed the money issue by sacrificing a goat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by subject42
This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukitsu
I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho
"Moral capacity" is the exact wording used in the PHB to explain why all animals are True Neutral. Skeletons are evil because they literally RUN ON EVIL. They don't have moral values, its they just happen to be powered by the tears of orphans.
Besides, the only one you need to convince is the DM.
Eh. Most I've talked to agree that negative energy isn't actually evil. Besides, a lich who is still powered by negative energy can be good aligned, and even be a paladin since it can have a good moral capacity. They aren't evil subtyped or anything like that implying they're powered by evil.
Animals aren't not evil because they don't have a moral capacity, but because they don't act in a good or evil way. They basically just are. They kill things too, but unlike a skeleton which kills to kill, they kill to survive.
__________________
Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukitsu
Eh. Most I've talked to agree that negative energy isn't actually evil. Besides, a lich who is still powered by negative energy can be good aligned, and even be a paladin since it can have a good moral capacity. They aren't evil subtyped or anything like that implying they're powered by evil.
Animals aren't not evil because they don't have a moral capacity, but because they don't act in a good or evil way. They basically just are. They kill things too, but unlike a skeleton which kills to kill, they kill to survive.
'scept, y'know, animals DO murder. And fiends "basically just are", too, if they are literally incapable of being good-aligned. They don't act in a good or evil way, they just torture and kill and rape and conquer because that's just how they're made.
Now, if a fiend CAN be good-aligned, then it's more of a bias from their genetics/upbringing.
__________________
MUNDUM MENTI Since I don't want to bring it up every thread I'm in, my games only allow material from books I have physical copies of. I do not use the SRD.
Books Owned:
Spoiler
Player's Handbook
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Monster Manual III
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Complete Warrior
Draconomicon
Frostburn
Libris Mortis
Lords of Madness
Planar Handbook
Sandstorm
Savage Species
Unearthed Arcana
Races of the Dragon
Races of Stone
Last edited by Drakevarg : 05-19-2010 at 09:23 PM.
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuubi
The only problem with the D3 is it doesn't exist.
__________________
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Giant
Fantasy literature is ONLY worthwhile for what it can tell us about the real world; everything else is petty escapism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Giant
No author should have to take the time to say, "This little girl ISN'T evil, folks!" in order for the reader to understand that. It should be assumed that no first graders are irredeemably Evil unless the text tells you they are.
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Now the trick is getting a n00bish DM to believe that such things mean that you can roll a LN Barbarian or a CN Paladin or what have you. It would open up so many more options...
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorrin
Now the trick is getting a n00bish DM to believe that such things mean that you can roll a LN Barbarian or a CN Paladin or what have you. It would open up so many more options...
Well, he's not noobish enough to allow that. Although he is a bit noobish when it comes to power levels of the various classes.
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravens_cry
I find shaking it in your cupped hand also works.
Yeah, or tossing it upwards, or what have you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravens_cry
There are also d12 that are marked with 3 sets of four numerals.
I actually like the tetrahedron though.
__________________
Quotes:
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus
Also fixed the money issue by sacrificing a goat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by subject42
This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukitsu
I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho
'scept, y'know, animals DO murder. And fiends "basically just are", too, if they are literally incapable of being good-aligned. They don't act in a good or evil way, they just torture and kill and rape and conquer because that's just how they're made.
Killing something for necessity of survival isn't usually called murder. It's why paladins don't have to be vegetarians.
__________________
Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukitsu
Killing something for necessity of survival isn't usually called murder. It's why paladins don't have to be vegetarians.
I didn't say "for necessity of survival". I said murder. Animals do murder. Monkeys, dolphins, etc, are known to murder their own kind without any survival-related reason.
__________________
MUNDUM MENTI Since I don't want to bring it up every thread I'm in, my games only allow material from books I have physical copies of. I do not use the SRD.
Books Owned:
Spoiler
Player's Handbook
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Monster Manual III
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Complete Warrior
Draconomicon
Frostburn
Libris Mortis
Lords of Madness
Planar Handbook
Sandstorm
Savage Species
Unearthed Arcana
Races of the Dragon
Races of Stone
Last edited by Drakevarg : 05-19-2010 at 11:15 PM.
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho
I didn't say "for necessity of survival". I said murder. Animals do murder. Monkeys, dolphins, etc, are known to murder their own kind without any legitmate cause.
Those are an acception, not a norm, nor is "neutral" an always alignment for animals. Or at least, not properly always. Those would be one of those rare evil ones. Kind of like how there are a few good ones that save little Timmy when he falls in a well.
__________________
Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukitsu
Those are an acception, not a norm, nor is "neutral" an always alignment for animals. Or at least, not properly always. Those would be one of those rare evil ones. Kind of like how there are a few good ones that save little Timmy when he falls in a well.
Murder isn't the norm for humans, either.
And in regards to DnD alignment, no. The PHB specifically states that animals are incapable of being anything but True Neutral. Not "in almost all cases". Always.
__________________
MUNDUM MENTI Since I don't want to bring it up every thread I'm in, my games only allow material from books I have physical copies of. I do not use the SRD.
Books Owned:
Spoiler
Player's Handbook
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Monster Manual III
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Complete Warrior
Draconomicon
Frostburn
Libris Mortis
Lords of Madness
Planar Handbook
Sandstorm
Savage Species
Unearthed Arcana
Races of the Dragon
Races of Stone
Last edited by Drakevarg : 05-19-2010 at 11:17 PM.
Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen
Where does it say that? All I can find is "always neutral" besides each of them, which doesn't mean always.
People also tend, on the whole to engage in more senseless violence and such than even an "evil" animal, hence the wider variation even though we're considered usually TN.
__________________
Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.
RSS Feeds: 
Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignment?
(I have very good reason for wanting a Pyroclastic dragon.)
Fiction Editor for 
