Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

[Magikeeper]

Razor Fin: I always did like Great Flyby attack. I think this is fine.

Absent Fin: This is awesome.

On attack bonus: The lack of a high attack bonus is an issue. If you want to keep aberration BAB, perhaps the following ability would work:

Unearthly Power (Su) : An Ozodrin attacking with a natural weapon receives an enhancement bonus equal to +1/2 their class level to their attack bonus. Any attack effected by this ability bypasses damage reduction as though it were made by a magic weapon.

It could be granted at level 5 alongside the other, more situational ability. That gives them a higher enough attack bonus to compete. A similar ability I was using for another class used also boosted damage, but this class receives so many attacks per round… I’m not sure it would be balanced. The bonus could possibly by insight instead of enhancement since it isn’t boosting damage.

------------------


Another thing, one of the main issues I have found with this class is the pressure to take all aberrant feats. My level 16 npcs are getting almost as many points from feats as they are from class levels. This is an issue as there are not that many aberrant feats, which results in them having the same build. So I set out to solve the issue in a way that would be balanced in all games the Ozodrin might be allowed in (some of the feats on that other thread are a bit.. iffy)

So here it goes:


Otherworldly Skill [Aberrant]
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +4, any 3 aberrant feats.
Choose a fighter bonus feat you meet the prerequisites for. This feat must not require a proficiency in a non-natural weapon. As a free action 1/day per aberrant feat you posses you can gain the benefits of that feat for 1 hour.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times, choosing a different fighter bonus feat each time. You may choose feats that require fighter bonus feats previously chosen for Otherworldly skill (you could take this feat once to gain dodge, and again to gain mobility). Feats chosen in this way also count towards any other class/feat/skill/etc requirements.

^ The restriction might not be needed. This would add a lot of versatility to builds taking 100% aberrant feats.

Aberrant Monstrosity [Aberrant]
Prerequisites: Any 3 aberrant feats.
Choose a [Monstrous] feat you meet the prerequisites for. You may choose feats that require you to be of the aberration type. As a free action 1/day per aberrant feat you posses you can gain the benefits of that feat for 1 hour.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times, choosing a different Monstrous feat each time. You may choose feats that require monstrous feats previously chosen for Aberrant Monstrosity. Feats chosen in this way also count towards any other class/feat/skill/etc requirements.

[Owrtho]

Glad the razor fin seems fine.

On the absent fin, do you think ignoring currents for swimming would work keeping it in balance with the flying and burrowing effects?

Unearthly power seems to work.

I like the idea of those feats. I agree it would help versatility.

Owrtho

[Strudel110]

Didn't someone link some more aberrant feats earlier in this thread? That could help. never mind read closer.

[Magicyop]

Hey, a thought. You should maybe add something to help with melee touch attacks(used to initiate grapples). Just a couple augments that would help it get high in all aspects of the grapple... especially things like hooked tentacle. If you have a super-long tentacle, it may be great for grappling, but the attack bonus *hurts* when it comes to actually touching the person to start the grapple.


Also, I have an idea for a new feature: stomach! (or something of that sort). It would let you expand your stomach dimension(adding extra stomachs could be expensive, but could let you have some kind of cool multi-room stomach palace inside you) and improve its defenses, maybe with augments like adding energy resistance, hardness, or AC to stomach walls, making it harder to climb out a throat, or maybe blocking the ability to teleport out a stomach.

I know I'm not being very clear on the stomach feature, so if you want I could write up basically what I'm talking about (like magi has done with the skin).

[Magicyop]

Okay, here's my idea... I know it doesn't have 10 augments, but I'm still thinking about it. I don't know if you think it would work, but, it's something that I think would be cool for a character.

Stomach:

Spoiler

Stomach: Cost - 10
Appearance: Stomachs appear as fleshy sacs inside the Ozodrin,
Required Level: 16
Benefits: Stomachs can be useful tools to an Ozodrin who likes eating things(or people). A mouth in one stomach can lead to another stomach, allowing for large complexes inside the Ozodrin's stomach dimension. A stomach has all the benefits described in Swallow Whole. You have one stomach automatically, which cannot be removed or sold for form points.
Augments:

Stomach of Steel: Additional cost 3
The hardness of this stomach is increased by 5. You can add this augment multiple times to the same stomach.

Dimensional Trap: Additional cost 4
Blocks teleportation in and out of your stomach dimension.

Resistant Innards: Additional cost 3
Grants 10 energy resistance to your stomach. You can add this augment multiple times to the same stomach.

Sticky Stomach: Additional cost 4
Flight spells do not work inside your stomach. Additionally, monsters that can normally fly must succeed on a DC of (your class level) strength check before each move action if they wish to fly.

Saliva: Additional cost 3
The DC to climb out of your throat increases by 10. This augment can be added multiple times to the same stomach.

Membranous Construction: Additional cost 1
A minor piece of furniture forms in your stomach, made of the same material as the rest of the stomach.

Class ability:
Eat Yourself: In a seemingly logic-defying action, you devour your own body, vanishing from existence. In reality, you have moved into your own stomach, putting you there. You may exit through another use of this ability, putting you in exactly the same place you were before you ate yourself. It takes a full-round action to activate this ability.

[DaragosKitsune]

Originally Posted by Magicyop

Okay, here's my idea... I know it doesn't have 10 augments, but I'm still thinking about it. I don't know if you think it would work, but, it's something that I think would be cool for a character.

Stomach:

Spoiler

Stomach: Cost - 10
Appearance: Stomachs appear as fleshy sacs inside the Ozodrin,
Required Level: 16
Benefits: Stomachs can be useful tools to an Ozodrin who likes eating things(or people). A mouth in one stomach can lead to another stomach, allowing for large complexes inside the Ozodrin's stomach dimension. A stomach has all the benefits described in Swallow Whole. You have one stomach automatically, which cannot be removed or sold for form points.
Augments:

Stomach of Steel: Additional cost 3
The hardness of this stomach is increased by 5. You can add this augment multiple times to the same stomach.

Dimensional Trap: Additional cost 4
Blocks teleportation in and out of your stomach dimension.

Resistant Innards: Additional cost 3
Grants 10 energy resistance to your stomach. You can add this augment multiple times to the same stomach.

Sticky Stomach: Additional cost 4
Flight spells do not work inside your stomach. Additionally, monsters that can normally fly must succeed on a DC of (your class level) strength check before each move action if they wish to fly.

Saliva: Additional cost 3
The DC to climb out of your throat increases by 10. This augment can be added multiple times to the same stomach.

Membranous Construction: Additional cost 1
A minor piece of furniture forms in your stomach, made of the same material as the rest of the stomach.

Class ability:
Eat Yourself: In a seemingly logic-defying action, you devour your own body, vanishing from existence. In reality, you have moved into your own stomach, putting you there. You may exit through another use of this ability, putting you in exactly the same place you were before you ate yourself. It takes a full-round action to activate this ability.

I just had an image of a party that uses the ozodrin's stomach as their base. It would be feasible. You could also use the stomach as a bag of holding as soon as the character learns Swallow Whole. I don't think that swallowed items are subject to destruction like devoured ones are and the stomach doesn't have any described size limits. Correct me if I'm wrong of course. Also, would an ozodrin with a fly speed (a la Starspawn) be affected by its own Sticky Stomach feature?

[Owrtho]

There is actually a limit to the size of the stomach. The exact size is specified in the swallow whole description.
You are correct that things brought into the stomach via swallow whole are not subject to destruction such as items devoured.
Eat yourself is rather similar to strange movement. It could just be specified that if you have swallow whole you can enter your stomach instead, and if you do each minute rather than round counts as 5' or movement. Could also be an augment.
Though if you did so no new air would be coming in.

I'll think about the stomach feature. Mainly as I had a thought of an ozodrin pretending to be a building at one point.

Also, I just had a thought of, upon figuring out that a place was about to explode/implode/whatever, an ozodrin shouting to the party and any refugees to get in his belly, then doing so himself to avoid the blast.

Owrtho

[DaragosKitsune]

Could I possibly get the size of the stomach for the purpose of item storage then? To me, swallow whole is better served as a way to guard your items/party then a way to deal with enemies. I wouldn't want to risk the possibility of being attacked by enemies inside me that require me to give up combat potential to deal with, especially because devour wouldn't make sense at that point, but would open up an interesting way to mess with your enemies.

Ex. Making an infinite loop of mouth tunnels inside your stomach that just lead back to the main part of your stomach.

Wait, why can't the ozodrin do this?

[Owrtho]

Not sure what you're saying it can't do.
I'll point out though that the mouth feature always leads to the stomach, even if it is in the stomach.

Also, size is in terms of creatures. If you want it in terms of items figure or how many items a halfling is equal to.

Owrtho

[DaragosKitsune]

To clarify on the infinite mouth loop thing is:

Manifesting multiple mouth features within the stomach that are all always open except for one hidden one. The hidden one is the one that is actually connected to the ozodrin's throat for the purpose of escaping swallow whole. The rest are actually randomly connected to each other, so that no matter which one you go through, you eventually reemerge in the main part of the stomach. Imagine a large room with multiple doors and a hidden trapdoor in the ceiling. The hidden one is the way out. The obvious doors each connect to another door through a series of passageways and stairs, and some doors lock randomly behind you or while you are in the main room. Would that be possible, and if so what would the effect be?

So, basically, you can fit 4 swords or 2000 gp for every one halfling?

[The Tygre]

Hrm... Still too many dead levels. Any ideas to fill er' out, yet?

[periscope69]

Well you could add poison to the bites (either something that paralyzes, puts them to sleep, or that targets their Str or Dex, so it's easier to eat them [they still have to scream you know ]).

Maybe an ability (call it consume or something like that) that, instead of gulping them down with one big mouth, sicks a bunch of little mouths on them at the same time, each taking a bite out of them (sort of like Flurry of Blows, or maybe count as a swarm).

Something that lets the Ozodrin slip out of a grapple if it goes bad (Like the power of the travel domain).

Maybe sneak attack or something but only with natural weapons (maybe make it an eye thing that lets you "see" their vitals).

I'd support bonus Aberration feats.

Or something like the Druids Thousand Faces ability.

Immunity to poisons and diseases might be nice (they are heading down Aberration Alley after all). Maybe extend to negative levels after a while.

Maybe a shadow form (not incorporeal) that would let them into places. Think Shadow Body from Expanded Psionics Handbook.

Or maybe like an ooze they can literally squeeze themselves into places (maybe even count as a few sizes smaller for the purposes of fighting in tight, low, or generally cramped spaces).

Scent to track down prey and possibly the Track Feat as a class feature. I mean these are predators, they should have extreme means to find prey. Maybe have it as part of the mouth augments (like a snake your "tasting" the air to find them).

Climb speed?

Maybe something like a weasel from the Monster Manual which lets you "lock" your jaw on someone until they beat your grapple check?

Maybe count as an outsider at 20th level (seems standard) with a possibility to stop aging if you get to a higher level (and none of that "you die when your time is up bit").

Maybe an ability to create darkness (and since you can have blindsight like that, it won't hurt you).

[Magikeeper]

Y’know, I don’t think we have any augments at level 19.

I like the stomach augment idea, although I think it should be level 14 and some of the abilities need to be changed. If I have time I'd like to create an expanded version for Owrtho to work with (still busy with paper, yes?). I also should to get around to creating a revised version of skin.

Fixes I think need to be made to skin:

Spoiler

> Separate Skin that Hides from Skin that Pretends. Perhaps alter what it does.
> All skins excepts StP, Reality Warping Skin, and maybe Iron Skin and StH become multi-usable on the same skin.
> Change Magic Eating skin so that it costs 4 form points for a total SR of 10 + 3 per magic eating skin (including the first one, for a starting total of 13).
> Change healing skin so that it actually works with the other feeding skins as intended, which by RAW it currently would not.

Response to post above this one.

Spoiler

Comments in bold

Originally Posted by periscope69

Well you could add poison to the bites (either something that paralyzes, puts them to sleep, or that targets their Str or Dex, so it's easier to eat them [they still have to scream you know ]).

Could be an augment.

Maybe an ability (call it consume or something like that) that, instead of gulping them down with one big mouth, sicks a bunch of little mouths on them at the same time, each taking a bite out of them (sort of like Flurry of Blows, or maybe count as a swarm).

You could form multiple mouths and do this already.

Something that lets the Ozodrin slip out of a grapple if it goes bad (Like the power of the travel domain).

This class has access to dimensional travel, can change its size, and can give itself massive bonuses to either grapple or escape artist as a move action. It may be able to eat itself.

Maybe sneak attack or something but only with natural weapons (maybe make it an eye thing that lets you "see" their vitals).
I don't think this is needed. I don't want to swipe other classes' primary attack styles on a whim.

I'd support bonus Aberration feats.

Or something like the Druids Thousand Faces ability.
Skin that pretends?

Immunity to poisons and diseases might be nice (they are heading down Aberration Alley after all). Maybe extend to negative levels after a while.
Maybe a new Skin augment, I did think about this.

Maybe a shadow form (not incorporeal) that would let them into places. Think Shadow Body from Expanded Psionics Handbook.

Or maybe like an ooze they can literally squeeze themselves into places (maybe even count as a few sizes smaller for the purposes of fighting in tight, low, or generally cramped spaces).
Size changing abilities cover this, I think. Escape artist could help too. Maybe a skin augment for this purpose, though.

Scent to track down prey and possibly the Track Feat as a class feature. I mean these are predators, they should have extreme means to find prey. Maybe have it as part of the mouth augments (like a snake your "tasting" the air to find them).
I’m not so certain about this one

Climb speed?
They can fly, swim, burrow, and get a bonus to climb checks. True, I don’t think they can get a climb speed at the moment

Maybe something like a weasel from the Monster Manual which lets you "lock" your jaw on someone until they beat your grapple check?

Not a bad mouth augment idea.

Maybe count as an outsider at 20th level (seems standard) with a possibility to stop aging if you get to a higher level (and none of that "you die when your time is up bit").
You already turn into an aberration at level 10. You could stop aging then, really. The capstone should help epic. Outsider type wouldn’t do that.

Maybe an ability to create darkness (and since you can have blindsight like that, it won't hurt you).
That could be an augment of some kind, really. I considered something for skin that created mist. But you get gaze attacks….

[periscope69]

I saw that Owthro has not added the skins as features, nor the fins, to the main list of features, so they are not part of the class as of yet.

I also haven't seen anything (other than certain aberrant feats) that gives you the ability to fly.

Also, did it ever seem like a good idea for them to get Improved Grapple as a bonus feat and Improved Grab as a class feature? The class focuses on that stuff and a +4 bonus to grapple checks and not provoking an attack of opportunity to actually grapple (since the only feature that lets you do something like that is tentacle (coiling) which makes you take a penalty to your grapple check) would probably be nice. I mean I see bonuses to grapple but nothing that helps initiate a grapple in the first place.

The puppet thing maybe, since it catches them flat footed but still.

On the outsider thing, I was thinking aberrations+Far Realms stuff so.....

Also, with the tentacles, can they transport themselves through that tentacle? I mean I know they have Strange Movement already but hear me out.

From the description of Strange Movement, you either have to be able to see where your going or at least know where your going (like somewhere you've seen before) since it doesnt say anything about line of sight or anything and those tend to be the defaults. And it can only be used to 5 x class level per day feet.

What I'm talking about is stuff like this:

Say your in a room and you need to get out, let's say either a cell or someone's coming. You don't want to be seen. Say your out of Strange Movement or there is a dimensional anchor around there. You extend a tentacle either out the window or through a pipe, get it to a clear space with an eye on the end to see if it's ok. Then you sort of meld your body through the tentacle to the other side (probably looking really freaky while you do it).

[DaragosKitsune]

Re-posted link to the new Aberration feats.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155474

I'm starting to see the bonus feat idea as viable now that there are enough feats to actually differentiate between two Aberrant Blooded characters.

[Strudel110]

Originally Posted by periscope69

I saw that Owthro has not added the skins as features, nor the fins, to the main list of features, so they are not part of the class as of yet.

I believe he already said he would add them a page back.

[Owrtho]

Well, it seems there is a lot to address. To periscope69, I already stated I'm adding the fin and skin features. I just haven't gotten around to it due to needing to reformat them to match the other features and reword some things as well as a final paper for a class I'm taking (will be done with it Thursday of next week). Now, in the order mentioned:

Bite abilities would be augments most likely.

You can already have multiple mouths devouring a single creature.

Like Magikeeper, plenty of ways out. You also overlooked the Strange Anatomy's benefits to grappling (you ignore size penalties for grappling and gain a +5 bonus to escape artist checks).

Not sure about the sneak attacks.

May give some bonus feats if it needs them by the time the features are all done.

Skin that pretends will be able to do some of this.

Might add that to becoming an aberration (along with stopping ageing).

Already various ways to do such.

Again, a number of ways.

Doesn't really fit.

I think I'll add some limb augments for that (one for climbing and an absent upgrade to it).

May look into it.

Already becomes an aberration. I get what you mean with the far realms and all, but aberration suits the class better.

Not sure how well it fits the class. I'll think about it.

Not much that needs answering in Magikeeper's post. So skipping to next one.

Well, I've stated they will be added. I suppose it's up to you if you want to wait before counting them though.

Fins will give ability to fly.

I will add improved grapple. Going to make coiling tentacle loose its penalty at later levels.

Not sure what you're talking about with the puppet.

As I said, I feel aberration fits better than outsider. Particularly as some games may choose to not have the far realms but still want to include the class.

That would actually make a fun augment for later levels.

Line of sight isn't needed for strange movement. You just need to know where you are relative to where you want to be. Also isn't prevented by dimensional anchor after getting to level 10.

Not much to say about story. But new augments for tentacles and limbs (fins are up too.
Also, I'm out of room in the first post...
May need to move some info to my second post in the thread.

Owrtho

[Magikeeper]

So, I thought of some more ideas for stomach. I also made some edits to the current suggestions:

Spoiler

Stomach: Cost - 10
Appearance: Stomachs appear as fleshy sacs inside the Ozodrin,
Required Level: 14
Benefits: Stomachs can be useful tools to an Ozodrin who likes eating things(or people). Any mouth can lead to any stomach, chosen when the mouth is created. A stomach has all the benefits described in Swallow Whole. You have one stomach automatically, which cannot be removed or sold for form points. Anything in a stomach that is removed is either pushed through an opening or is placed in a square next to the Ozodrin. You may apply or remove augments to a stomach after it has been created as a move action.
Augments:

Stomach of Steel: Additional cost 3
The hardness of this stomach is increased by 5. You can add this augment multiple times to the same stomach.

Resistant Innards: Additional cost 3
The walls of your stomach gain energy resistance 10 to the energy type of your choice. You can add this augment multiple times to the same stomach. Its effects stack.

Dimensional Trap: Additional cost 4
Teleportation effects do not function within the stomach. This includes plane shift and similar effects.

Membranous Construction: Additional cost 1
Required Level 15: You can create an object in your stomach. This augment functions like wall of stone, except that the object is made out of your flesh instead of stone, fuses with surrounding flesh, and only creates 5 cubic feet worth of material. This flesh has the same hardness and energy resistances as the rest of the stomach. This augment can be added to the same stomach multiple times.
Might not work now that I know how stomach size works

Sticky Stomach: Additional cost 5
Required Level 16: Flight spells do not work inside your stomach. Additionally, creatures that come into contact with your stomach walls, floor, or ceiling must succeed on a DC 10 + ½ your class level + your charisma modifier strength check or else be entangled for 1 round per Sticky Stomach augment applied to the same stomach. The DC to climb out of your throat increases by 10. This augment can be added to the same stomach multiple times.

Warped Stomach: Additional cost 5
Required Level 17: Your stomach can be of any shape or size provided that its volume remains the same. This augment cannot be applied to a preexisting stomach. If a creature would not be able to fit inside your stomach, the walls slightly expand around it. A creature in such a stomach can only use a light slashing or piercing weapon to cut its way out.
Might not work now that I know how stomach size works

Massive Stomach: Additional cost 5
Required Level 17: The volume of your stomach increases by 100% of its original size. This augment can be applied multiple times, but it cannot be applied to a preexisting stomach.

Digesting Liquid: Additional cost 3
Required Level 18: All creatures and objects inside your stomach take 5 points of either acid, cold, fire, or electricity damage – chosen when you add this augment. A creature may make a reflex save against a DC of 10 + ½ your class level + your charisma modifier to take half damage. You may apply this augment to the same stomach multiple times, each creature only makes one saving throw per energy type (for example, if you applied this augment twice to deal 10 fire damage each creature would only make one saving throw in an attempt to take 5 damage instead).

Inner Universe: Additional cost 10
Required Level 19: You may apply any one elemental or Magic planar trait to the stomach except for the enhanced magic trait. This trait does not effect you, but it does effect any other creatures in your stomach. It costs an additional 20 form points to apply the major positive, major negative, limited magic, or dead magic planar traits. You may apply this augment to the same stomach multiple times, but only once for each kind of trait (Elemental and Magical).

Monster Within: Additional cost 10
Required Level 20: The walls of your stomach function as though they were a mirror of opposition. You may choose to suppress or resume this ability as a free action, although you have no control over any created duplicates. The duplicate ceases to exist if either they or the original leave the stomach. This augment functions any number of times per day, but only one duplicate can be in existence at a time for any given opponent.

Heh, I didn’t even intend for there to be 10 augments…

[DaragosKitsune]

The stomach size is based on number of creatures rather than a distinct size category, as per the rules of Swallow Whole.

[Magikeeper]

And whoops on the deletion. I did not double post after all. :P

Originally Posted by DaragosKitsune

The stomach size is based on number of creatures rather than a distinct size category, as per the rules of Swallow Whole.

I see. Most of the suggested augments will still work with that.


---------------------------
MASSIVE EDIT


So, if there was some kind of stomach feature, I think the current table would look something like the following:

Spoiler

Level	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Special
1st	+0	+0	+0	+2	Manifest Form, Form points, Feature (basic eyes), Aberrant Blood
2nd	+1	+0	+0	+3	Feature (Mouth), Devour
3rd	+2	+1	+1	+3	Feature (Tentacles), Improved Grapple
4th	+3	+1	+1	+4	Strange Anatomy
5th	+3	+1	+1	+4	Jaws that Bite, Unearthly Power
6th	+4	+2	+2	+5	Feature (Limb)
7th	+5	+2	+2	+5	Strange Movement
8th	+6/+1	+2	+2	+6	Swallow Whole
9th	+6/+1	+3	+3	+6	Feature (Fin)
10th	+7/+2	+3	+3	+7	Aberrant Nature, Budding Body
11th	+8/+3	+3	+3	+7	Feature (Special Eyes)
12th	+9/+4	+4	+4	+8	Feature (Skin)
13th	+9/+4	+4	+4	+8	Feature (puppet)
14th	+10/+5	+4	+4	+9	Feature (Stomach)
15th	+11/+6/+1	+5	+5	+9	Feature (Lure Trap)
16th	+12/+7/+2	+5	+5	+10
17th	+12/+7/+2	+5	+5	+10
18th	+13/+8/+3	+6	+6	+11
19th	+14/+9/+4	+6	+6	+11
20th	+15/+10/+5	+6	+6	+12

So that means levels 16,17,18,19, and 20 are the only ones without abilities. Level 14 if Stomach is not used. I think every level would have an augment, although I think level 20 would only have the stomach augment IF stomach was added.

I think the following ability at level 17 would be nice:

Advanced Form: An Ozodrin of 17th level or higher can add or remove a number of features equal to half her charisma modifier (minimum 4) as a full-round action. Basic Eyes only count as ½ a feature for the purposes of this restriction. Furthermore, an Ozodrin that uses a move action or a standard action to remove a feature may add/remove two features instead. The form points spent on a removed feature do not count against the point limit of a feature added at the same time.

High level combat is faster. Although I think feature adding/subtracting is supposed to be slow, this speed increase would still be slow at high levels. Just not as painfully slow. Also, you have so many more form points to spend. On the other hand, an ability that let you set up an “alternate form” that you could switch to as a move action (basically a different point set up) could also be interesting.

I think the Capstone should just increase the rate form points are acquired, and maybe a level 16 ability could give you an aberrant bonus feat plus an additional bonus feat every 2 levels (no cap, intended to continue into epic).


Alternately, we think of 1 more feature/ability to place at level 16, place the bonus feat ability at levels 17+19+etc, put “Advanced Form” at level 18, put the capstone at level 20, and thus have an ability at every level.

[Magicyop]

Nice. I love the changes Magikeeper made to the Stomach, and I also think the new fin feature is awesome. Advanced Form is a cool idea, and I like the idea of increasing form points gained as capstone.

Like... maybe for capstone, instead of (level*3)+Cha+Aberrant Feats, capstone could change it to (level+cha+aberrant feats)*3, so the charisma modifier gets multiplied in too. So a level 21 Ozodrin with 22 Charisma and two aberrant feats would have 87 form points.

[Magikeeper]

Originally Posted by Magicyop

Like... maybe for capstone, instead of (level*3)+Cha+Aberrant Feats, capstone could change it to (level+cha+aberrant feats)*3, so the charisma modifier gets multiplied in too. So a level 21 Ozodrin with 22 Charisma and two aberrant feats would have 87 form points.

What about [(level*3)+Cha+Aberrant Feats]*2, or maybe even (level*10)+Cha+Aberrant Feats? The latter would be an additional 140 form points at level 20, which is a lot, while the former would be an extra 60 + 2xCha + 2xAberrant feats. Doubling all points from all sources is also an option, if we want epic Ozodrins to be based around farspawn.

To compare, lets look at a level 21 human Ozodrin with 10 aberrant feats [x4 farspawn, 1x deepspawn(6fp)] and a cha of 30. I think that would be closer to the average PC without flaws, although a main stat would probably be above 30 by that level.

Without capstone: 63c + 10af + 20fs + 6ds + 10cha = 109fp
Partial Double Method: 109 + [10af] + [10cha] = 129fp
Doubling Method: 109 + 63c + [10af] + [10cha] = 192fp
Full Double Method: 109 x 2 = 218fp
x10 method: 109 + 140c = 249fp

If 4x farspawn seems like too many, subtract 10 points from the 109.

[Magicyop]

Originally Posted by Magikeeper

What about [(level*3)+Cha+Aberrant Feats]*2, or maybe even (level*10)+Cha+Aberrant Feats? The latter would be an additional 140 form points at level 20, which is a lot, while the former would be an extra 60 + 2xCha + 2xAberrant feats. Doubling all points from all sources is also an option, if we want epic Ozodrins to be based around farspawn.

To compare, lets look at a level 21 human Ozodrin with 10 aberrant feats [x4 farspawn, 1x deepspawn(6fp)] and a cha of 30. I think that would be closer to the average PC without flaws, although a main stat would probably be above 30 by that level.

Without capstone: 63c + 10af + 20fs + 6ds + 10cha = 109fp
Partial Double Method: 109 + [10af] + [10cha] = 129fp
Doubling Method: 109 + 63c + [10af] + [10cha] = 192fp
Full Double Method: 109 x 2 = 218fp
x10 method: 109 + 140c = 249fp

If 4x farspawn seems like too many, subtract 10 points from the 109.

That would work in my opinion, 249 seems a nice number of form points to have going into epic. Also, there should maybe be epic feats granting maybe 20 bonus form points?

[Bhu]

Patiently awaiting updates

[UserShadow7989]

I'm loving the class so far, though I'm itching to see those blank spots filled. I have a couple ideas off the top of my head to kill those empty levels. A class feature that grants mind-breaking or petrifying gaze attacks to go with the eye features would add to the 'nameless horror' theme of the class. Who doesn't like eye beams?

Maybe at higher levels the Ozodrin get the ability to 'project' a feature like an eye or tentacle onto a specific type of nearby surface to restrict enemy movement (fill a space with tentacles to make it count as rough terrain/impassible) or scout (put an eye on the opposite side of a door). Though the Lure Trap seems close enough to this and much more flavorful, it's just a thought.

[Owrtho]

No major changes, but I did move all the features into another post and put improved grapple in. Added the two aberrant feats suggested by Magikeeper to the first post. Also made note you stop ageing at level 10. I seem to remember planing to do something else there too. That said, I'm still busy with other stuff.

Also, if someone would like to help, It would be handy if a list of the changes I'd mentioned I would make over pages 4 and 5 could be compiled. Would make it easier for me to make them this weekend.

Owrtho

[Magicyop]

Changes you said you would make:
-I think I'll give them improved grapple at level 3, and improved grab at level 11 or 12.

Originally Posted by Magikeeper

SKIN:

Spoiler

Basic Skin – Cost 2
Appearance: You form a thin membrane around your body, with invisible patches over your eyes and slits over any openings (such as a mouth).
Required Level: 12
Benefits: The membrane is unusually slick and malleable, granting you a +1 bonus to escape artist checks. The slits can be opened or closed as a free action. You can form multiple skins around yourself with every 2 skins granting a +1 bonus to natural armor that stacks with any preexisting natural armor.
Augments:

Iron Skin: Additional cost 2:
Your skin is rough instead of slick, granting DR 1/adamantine instead of a bonus to escape artist checks. This benefit stacks with other Iron Skins.

Nourishing Skin: Additional cost 2
Your skin allows you to breathe a gas or liquid of your choice. This allows you to survive in materials that are usually poisonous, but it does not allow you to ignore other effects (the heat of lava, exploding methane, etc).
Special: Using a Nourishing skin for 1 hour counts as both eating a pound of food and drinking a gallon of water for the purposes of avoiding starvation and dehydration.

Energy Consuming Skin: Additional cost 3
Your skin grants resistance 5 to the elemental energy type of your choice (Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity, or Sonic). Multiple Energy Consuming skins stack.
Special: Every 50 points of energy damage negated counts as both eating a pound of food and drinking a gallon of water for the purposes of avoiding starvation and dehydration. A fire consuming skin renders you immune to heat-based environmental effects that deal nonlethal damage, and a cold consuming skin renders you immune to cold-based environmental effects that deal nonlethal damage.

Magic Eating Skin: Additional cost 3
Required Level 13: Your skin can absorb magic itself. The Ozodrin gains Spell resistance 10, or increases their current spell resistance by three.
Special: If a spell fails to overcome the spell resistance of an Ozodrin with this feature, the Ozodrin gains 5 x spell level temporary hit points. These temporary hit points do not stack with themselves. Eating 3 levels worth of spells counts as eating a pound of food and drinking a gallon of water for the purposes of avoiding starvation and dehydration.

Skin that Pretends: Additional Cost 5
Required Level 14: Your skin changes color and stiffness in order to mimic the effects of the disguise self spell. Unlike the spell you cannot appear to be something smaller than you are, the Skin that Pretends counts as a mundane disguise once formed (it is not defeated by true seeing), and you can fake a body type other than your own by accepting a -20 penalty to the disguise check [extra bits are non-functional unless you use other features to mimic them]. Alternately, you can create a skin that blends into your surroundings like a chameleon. This use of the skin grants you a racial bonus to hide checks equal to your class level. You can choose for only part of your body to be hidden. This skin does not effect objects you are holding such as a sword, although it can cover stationary objects on your person such as clothing or jewelry.
Special: You may only have one Skin that Pretends active at a time. You can switch between multiple Skins the Pretend as a swift action. Other abilities possessed by the skins are not effected.


Warp Skin: Additional cost 8
Required Level 15: This skin forms a dimensional pocket, allowing its size to be unrelated to your own. A layer of this skin either increases or decreases your size category by one. Your ability scores and the size of other features are not modified, but all other modifiers apply. This benefit stacks with other Warp Skins, up to a maximum size of colossal and a minimum size of tiny.
Special: An Ozodrin with at least one layer of this skin is immune to atmospheric pressure effects. You may choose to create a version of this skin that does not change your size category.

Secreting skin: Additional cost 2
Required Level 16: You skin secretes a deadly liquid that dissolves, ignites, or freezes your foes. Each layer of this skin adds 1 point of acid, fire, or cold damage to all of your natural attacks (choose one when forming the skin). This damage is also dealt to any creature that comes into contact with your skin, either by grappling or by using a natural weapon. This damage does not effect nonliving material, but it does effect undead. You can add this augment to the same skin multiple times, and multiple Secreting skins stack with each other.

Healing Skin: Additional cost 8
Required Level 17: This skin uses your nourishment to repair the flesh beneath. You heal 10 hit points per pound of food consumed, up to a maximum of 10 hit points healed per round. Living creatures that you devour count towards this ability. If the weight of an enemy is unknown, assume that a medium bipedal creature contains 100lbs of meat and use carrying capacity modifiers to determine the weight of larger or smaller creatures. Multiple healing skins do not stack with each other, except that the maximum number of hit points healed per round is equal to 5 x the number of healing skins the Ozodrin has formed (You do not gain additional hit points per pound of food consumed).

Reality Warping Skin: Additional cost 10
Required Level 18: This skin slightly alters reality around itself, creating 1 inch emanation around yourself. This emanation allows you to selectively ignore the alignment and magic traits of various planes, but only within one inch of your body. For example, a special eye used in a dead magic zone would fail to function as normal unless the target was within 1 inch of it. This ability also applies to antimagic and energy transformation fields regardless of source. Creatures inside your stomach also receive this benefit. This augment does not stack with other reality warping skins.
Special: This skin allows you to survive in non-Euclidean realities.

-I might also put in some augments to make it better at luring creatures to it (such as a compulsion affect for things to want to approach and/or protect it if they see it).
-Perhaps the ability to leave puppets outside while hiding in their dimensional pocket.


Other suggested changes(you weren't clear whether you wanted to add these or not, but I included these nonetheless.):

Originally Posted by Magikeeper

STOMACH:

Spoiler

Stomach: Cost - 10
Appearance: Stomachs appear as fleshy sacs inside the Ozodrin,
Required Level: 14
Benefits: Stomachs can be useful tools to an Ozodrin who likes eating things(or people). Any mouth can lead to any stomach, chosen when the mouth is created. A stomach has all the benefits described in Swallow Whole. You have one stomach automatically, which cannot be removed or sold for form points. Anything in a stomach that is removed is either pushed through an opening or is placed in a square next to the Ozodrin. You may apply or remove augments to a stomach after it has been created as a move action.
Augments:

Stomach of Steel: Additional cost 3
The hardness of this stomach is increased by 5. You can add this augment multiple times to the same stomach.

Resistant Innards: Additional cost 3
The walls of your stomach gain energy resistance 10 to the energy type of your choice. You can add this augment multiple times to the same stomach. Its effects stack.

Dimensional Trap: Additional cost 4
Teleportation effects do not function within the stomach. This includes plane shift and similar effects.

Membranous Construction: Additional cost 1
Required Level 15: You can create an object in your stomach. This augment functions like wall of stone, except that the object is made out of your flesh instead of stone, fuses with surrounding flesh, and only creates 5 cubic feet worth of material. This flesh has the same hardness and energy resistances as the rest of the stomach. This augment can be added to the same stomach multiple times.
Might not work now that I know how stomach size works

Sticky Stomach: Additional cost 5
Required Level 16: Flight spells do not work inside your stomach. Additionally, creatures that come into contact with your stomach walls, floor, or ceiling must succeed on a DC 10 + ½ your class level + your charisma modifier strength check or else be entangled for 1 round per Sticky Stomach augment applied to the same stomach. The DC to climb out of your throat increases by 10. This augment can be added to the same stomach multiple times.

Warped Stomach: Additional cost 5
Required Level 17: Your stomach can be of any shape or size provided that its volume remains the same. This augment cannot be applied to a preexisting stomach. If a creature would not be able to fit inside your stomach, the walls slightly expand around it. A creature in such a stomach can only use a light slashing or piercing weapon to cut its way out.
Might not work now that I know how stomach size works

Massive Stomach: Additional cost 5
Required Level 17: The volume of your stomach increases by 100% of its original size. This augment can be applied multiple times, but it cannot be applied to a preexisting stomach.

Digesting Liquid: Additional cost 3
Required Level 18: All creatures and objects inside your stomach take 5 points of either acid, cold, fire, or electricity damage – chosen when you add this augment. A creature may make a reflex save against a DC of 10 + ½ your class level + your charisma modifier to take half damage. You may apply this augment to the same stomach multiple times, each creature only makes one saving throw per energy type (for example, if you applied this augment twice to deal 10 fire damage each creature would only make one saving throw in an attempt to take 5 damage instead).

Inner Universe: Additional cost 10
Required Level 19: You may apply any one elemental or Magic planar trait to the stomach except for the enhanced magic trait. This trait does not effect you, but it does effect any other creatures in your stomach. It costs an additional 20 form points to apply the major positive, major negative, limited magic, or dead magic planar traits. You may apply this augment to the same stomach multiple times, but only once for each kind of trait (Elemental and Magical).

Monster Within: Additional cost 10
Required Level 20: The walls of your stomach function as though they were a mirror of opposition. You may choose to suppress or resume this ability as a free action, although you have no control over any created duplicates. The duplicate ceases to exist if either they or the original leave the stomach. This augment functions any number of times per day, but only one duplicate can be in existence at a time for any given opponent.

Originally Posted by Magikeeper

Advanced Form: An Ozodrin of 17th level or higher can add or remove a number of features equal to half her charisma modifier (minimum 4) as a full-round action. Basic Eyes only count as ½ a feature for the purposes of this restriction. Furthermore, an Ozodrin that uses a move action or a standard action to remove a feature may add/remove two features instead. The form points spent on a removed feature do not count against the point limit of a feature added at the same time.

Hope that's an OK enough list. The italics are obviously things you said.

[Owrtho]

Thanks. That helps. I already added The Improved Grapple (level 4 instead of 3), and I decided not to give Improved Grab (I made some changes to coiling tentacle so it no longer suffers a penalty at level 10).

Added the Advanced form (with a few changes like name and level), as well as an augment for puppets as mentioned (well I said it would be for lure traps but figured it would fit better on the puppet). Also added the shifting shape ability and a feat to upgrade it.

Will try getting around to the rest this weekend.

Owrtho

[periscope69]

Is this dead then?

Also, something I've noticed, and I don't know if I missed it or if it's not there, is that there is nothing in here that let's your attacks (tentacles, razor fins, mouths, claws, etc.) count as magic for the purposes of bypassing DR. Was that intentional?

Might want to have them count as enhanced since even if the class had a full BAB if it doesn't have those bonuses to hit by a magic item, it's taking a serious hit to attack rolls (I mean I know it gets a lot of attacks but still).

I'd suggest having count as just a straight enchantment (+1, +2, etc) or have it be an augment for your attacks ie you have to invest form points in each attack that you want enhanced or maybe just in each attack type (tentacles, mouths, claws, etc.).

Maybe have an augment that let's their natural attacks count as certain materials for the purpose of bypassing DR (or maybe just have it converted to those materials though that might be pushing it).

Another augment that could be added to the mouth could be acid (like acidic saliva) with the justification that it helps break down the food and make it easier to digest.

Or they could spit acid as a form of ranged attack (I mean reach is very nice but there are still times when you'll need to shoot something out of the air) as augment for mouths. Have it have a duration like Melphs Acid Arrow spell.

[Owrtho]

This isn't dead. Just somewhat on hold. Starcraft 2 came out and the campaign is fun.
Also, that's a good point about the DR thing. I was planning to add something in for that and forgot.

Owrtho