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Great Speed "Run, run, run, as fast as you can! You can't catch me; I'm the gingerbread man!"
This feat scales to your ECL:
1-4: Add 10 ft to any one base speed.
5-8: Add 20 ft to the same base speed.
9-12: Add 40 ft to the same base speed.
13-17: Add 80 ft to the same base speed.
18+: Add 160 feet to the same base speed.
... this should scale into epic levels, doubling every four levels. So at 22, you'd get +320 feet to that base speed.
(Original post spoilered below)
Spoiler
Great Speed (General)
Prerequisites: At least Str 13 OR Dex 13, at least character level 3rd.
Effect: This feat grants EITHER:
An untyped 20ft bonus to any one speed you possess. (This cannot grant you a form of movement you do not possess)
OR
An untyped 10ft bonus to each speed you possess. (This does not give you any forms of movement you do not possess)
If you take this feat more than once, all increases after the first are halved.(+10 feet to a single movement type, or +5 to each.)
Special: You may take this feat more than once. However, each time you take it after the first, the prerequisite ability score is increased by one. In addition, you may only take this feat a number of times equal to once, plus your character level-3, divided by three).
(Once at 3rd-8th level, twice at 9th-14th level, three times at 15th-21st level.)
***
There are no good feats* that flat out boost your speed. There's a trait that boosts land speed, a feat for dragons only that grants +20ft flight, +10ft normal, a feat that requires 150ft fly speed... but nowhere can I find something nice, simple, and open.
I ship you/Anyone./Infernal Gardevoir from outside the playground, by Recaiden//ExtendedSig
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanqol
It's not normal, of course, and what's actually happening in Comet Kicker's brain is that she's using regular murder as therapy for worse murder. There's a breakdown in the works and all it needs is one good, hard kick.
May be a good prereq. Also, I think perhaps you should make it an Enhancement bonus, thus not stacking with such bonuses as the Monk's Fast Movement, or Haste.
There is a feat in Complete Adventurer that increases your base land speed by 5ft, I believe.
I would personally have the prerequisites be "Str 13 OR Dex 13" and then have the special line be "You may take this feat multiple times. Its effects stack. Each time you take this feat you may choose either option. Each time you take this feat the prerequisite ability score increases by 2."
EDIT - You beat me this time, ninja...
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Last edited by Rin_Hunter : 08-07-2010 at 06:45 AM.
I DID see that, but it's base land spee only, not very good, limits armour, and isn't very good.
What do you mean I already said that part?
Hmm, you thing Str OR Dex would be better?
I made it only one very consciously. I know Prereqs are normally odd, but A 30ft movement speed base, one take to get 50, a second to get 70... that's Str/Dex 19 for the next.
Although, if you only need one of the two, it might be more fair.
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Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanqol
It's not normal, of course, and what's actually happening in Comet Kicker's brain is that she's using regular murder as therapy for worse murder. There's a breakdown in the works and all it needs is one good, hard kick.
I DID see that, but it's base land spee only, not very good, limits armour, and isn't very good.
What do you mean I already said that part?
Hmm, you thing Str OR Dex would be better?
I made it only one very consciously. I know Prereqs are normally odd, but A 30ft movement speed base, one take to get 50, a second to get 70... that's Str/Dex 19 for the next.
Although, if you only need one of the two, it might be more fair.
I'm just thinking that not many character builds will have both good Strength and Dexterity so it severely limits who can take this.
And I thought that increasing it by two was better because that Human with 15 Str and Dex has a land speed of 70ft, which is just a little rediculous. You could make a character build around this feat if you really wanted if it only increments by 1.
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I return!
Currently working on my own game heavily influenced by D&D 3.5 and PF. All of it is OGL material. The finished version will be released on PDF at some point.
Looking for people to add random fluff to my setting. PM me if you are interested.
I don't think you should make a feat that's much stronger than Dash (which I know plenty of players already use). With that prereq, +10 to all movement modes might be alright, but +20 to your base is not. And it shouldn't be repeatable if it's not enhancement.
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It is amazing how hard it is to find a feat or magic item to do this. You can get 10 feet enhancement permanently, or 30 feet in short bursts, and that's it. Or flight later on, but that's merely a hard to increase 60 feet instead of a hard to increase 30 feet. Dash is the first thing I've seen pre-epic and it's only 5 feet. You don't need to crush the last major advantage monks have even after splatbooks. Or give anyone else the ability to automatically run away from a fight / automatically win a chase, among other applications.
5 or 10 feet is fine as long as the feat doesn't stack with itself. I wouldn't let people take it more than once. Making it an enhancement bonus sounds like a good idea, but I dunno how you'd fluff it. If you make it enhancement then I'd say make it 10 feet not 5.
You guys are all assuming that those feats would actually be taken. This is a doubtful thing, seeing as +5 to base land speed is a horrid waste of a feat when you could be spending them on things like 'quicken spell' or 'knockdown'. +10 to all forms of movement while psionically focused is more feasible, but still a waste. Course, the issue of 'automatically win a chase' or 'automatically get out of combat' is valid. With this particular feat taken once, you find yourself with a Dwarf that's faster than most everybody, while in a heavy load, at level 1.
The feat itself is a considerable boost, and you could see a person taking this in lieu of another feat, it's actually good enough, but at level 1, that's too fast. Adding a level requirement might be a good idea. Perhaps make this feat be something akin to 'you may only have this feat up to 1 time for every 6 levels you possess', or making it only be able to taken once, or maybe making further iterations of it increase your speed by a decreasing margin, would be good. A level requirement would also be a good idea.
In order:
Rin Hunter: on reflection, I think you're absolutely right. Will change.
MythMage: I really, really, don't think Dash is worth it. Especially as it's a one off feat for land speed only.
Lessie: 40ft isn't very fast. :/ Plus, that's two feats to get +10ft while focussed. Not amazing.
erigrau: I made it BECAUSE It's so hard. Bear in mind that it stacks with Fast Movement, so a Monk still has the lead. (Although, not nearly enough of one.)
If I were to DM, and my characters were likely to run, and they needed not to, I'd just give this to the enemies. Simple.
FlamingKobold: I know. That feat is land speed only, one use only, and regional. Get why I don't much care for it? DXD
Rith: Thank you. (Cute Seal!)
How about it requires 3rd level the first time, 9th to get a second time, 15th for a third?
I ship you/Anyone./Infernal Gardevoir from outside the playground, by Recaiden//ExtendedSig
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanqol
It's not normal, of course, and what's actually happening in Comet Kicker's brain is that she's using regular murder as therapy for worse murder. There's a breakdown in the works and all it needs is one good, hard kick.
I ship you/Anyone./Infernal Gardevoir from outside the playground, by Recaiden//ExtendedSig
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanqol
It's not normal, of course, and what's actually happening in Comet Kicker's brain is that she's using regular murder as therapy for worse murder. There's a breakdown in the works and all it needs is one good, hard kick.
There are no good feats* that flat out boost your speed. There's a trait that boosts land speed, a feat for dragons only that grants +20ft flight, +10ft normal[/size]
True. I made my Arena speeddemon Sturmherz into a Dragonborn so I could qualify for that draconic feat. Curiously, there is indeed no decent and generally avaiable feat that increases speed(excluding Dash, which sucks). Best I can think of is the already mentioned regional feat.
Though 20 feet may be too much. Don't forget this also gives you +8 jump
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Last edited by TheFallenOne : 08-10-2010 at 11:13 PM.
True. I made my Arena speeddemon Sturmherz into a Dragonborn so I could qualify for that draconic feat. Curiously, there is indeed no decent and generally avaiable feat that increases speed(excluding Dash, which sucks). Best I can think of is the already mentioned regional feat.
Though 20 feet may be too much. Don't forget this also gives you +8 jump
I only try and boost fly speeds, and a new character concept gave me my first flying character who isn't a dragon. XD
I ship you/Anyone./Infernal Gardevoir from outside the playground, by Recaiden//ExtendedSig
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanqol
It's not normal, of course, and what's actually happening in Comet Kicker's brain is that she's using regular murder as therapy for worse murder. There's a breakdown in the works and all it needs is one good, hard kick.
A human's base walking speed is 30 feet per round, unencumbered. That's about 3.4 mph. He can run at 4x that speed, or 13.6 mph. He can maintain that running speed for "a minute or two", most usually house-ruled as Con score rounds. he can hustle (2x base speed; 6.8 mph) for an hour no problem; each extra hours deals 1 hp non-lethal damage and makes him fatigued. Each additional hour of hustling doubles the non-lethal damage taken that hour (so hustling for 8 hours would deal 0+1+2+4+8+16+32+64 hp non-lethal damage, if you have that many hp or cure spells). We can suppose that almost any 1st level humans can hustle for three hours with some discomfort.
The Run feat allows you to run at 5x base speed (4x in medium/heavy armour). The Endurance feat allows a +4 bonus on the Con check to carry on walking more than 8 hours in a single day (among other bonuses; it doesn't make you go faster though).
In other words, SRD only, your best dash speed is 13.6 mph, or 17 mph with the Run feat. And your best distance speed is 6.8 mph over two hours; a 4th level fighter could maintain that speed over five hours without difficulty, which is enough to do a marathon.
For reference, the human land speed record is 100 metres in 9.79 seconds (22.85 mph). The marathon record is 2:03:59 (h:m:s), or 12.69 mph. Without feats, a 1st level human does 100 m in 16.4 seconds (13.12 seconds with the Run feat). Assuming that 100 m dash world record holder has the Run feat, his base move rate would be 40 feet (ok, 40.215 feet). That's probably a good point to set the maximum increase for a speed enhancement feat.
I'd consider make Endurance a pre-req for any movement enhancement feat. Thematically, it makes a lot of sense. A decent Con score should also be a pre-req if focusing on the endurance side, or Str/Dex if on the dash speed side.
I ship you/Anyone./Infernal Gardevoir from outside the playground, by Recaiden//ExtendedSig
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanqol
It's not normal, of course, and what's actually happening in Comet Kicker's brain is that she's using regular murder as therapy for worse murder. There's a breakdown in the works and all it needs is one good, hard kick.
According to the PHB humans in D&D walk 3 mph over easy terrain and hustle 6 mph as keeping up battle speed is not easy and even given a street your speed will be affected. Each 10-ft increase modifies this by 1 mile and 2 miles respectively.
Having ran a half-marathon, okay jogged a half-marathon, I will state that the speeds aren't really accurate over long distances. I can walk, or could at the time (I'm in worse shape now) 4.5 mph without stressing my body, but jogging 6 mph for 2 hours wore me out totally (that was only my average speed, I was actually going about a 9 minute mile until the last mile) so the doubling of speed is a simplification. A slightly over 6 mph pace was the average for the half-marathon (1/3rd of the people finished from between 2 hours and 2 hours 6 minutes give or take a few seconds), with one third taking longer (the time gaps increasing noticeably) and one third doing better (the best was about 1 hour). Also although this was a street marathon it did have several fairly steep hills that would slow speed in D&D to half. For example I know I could maintain a 7 mph speed on the treadmill for an hour with less effort at that period (did so in preparation).
I've also done a 20 mile mountain run. Took me 4.5 hours and I finished about middle of the pack, a few minutes behind the mode. A mountain trail in D&D halves speed and there were rivers, and often light to heavy underbrush on the trail, fallen trees, etc. So the speed for the trail would range from 1/2 to 1/4 depending upon area. The best speeds were still around 2 hours, which in D&D terms would have been 200-ft movement speeds. Really I'd say it modified speed less than that as my normal hustle never reached 8 mph (although looking at my base speed of 45 ft it should reach 9).
Recently I climbed Mount Fuji and I made it in 4 hours from the 5th station to the top. That was only 4 miles, no hustling, going up a difficult mountain trail. The average climbing speed is 8 hours up. Down hill was further (taking a longer path) but only took 3 hours with a 40 minute detour and an hour spent talking and waiting for other people. I covered half of the downhill in an hour without rushing. This shows that movement is far more complicated than D&D makes it out to be (which is a good thing as the game would be unplayable if it was that realistic).
To reach a marathon speed in D&D actually requires a 130-ft base land speed, but with how the running rules work that would be 650-ft/round when sprinting (with run feat) or better than a 1 minute mile. In short D&D does not map real world speeds well. It comes closer by reducing your run speed to x3, and allowing base land speed increases.
On a more normal case look at college campus's. Most people there can while carrying a backpack full of school books (medium encumbrance for several) still make at least a 3 mph pace. Most students actually have a 4 mph pace, although students actually tend to walk faster than other members of the community.
So what you need to look at here is game mechanics. Personally I'd make the feat just be +10-ft land, swim, or climb speed, or +20-ft fly speed (as that should be naturally easier to increase).
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Luck Blessed: My most recent homebrew (new as of mid May 2013).
If anybody is ever interested in playing one of my homebrewed base classes let me know, I'd love to see some of them in play and would try to run a game for it.
Humans aren't very fast creatures in the grand scheme of things. If you want to outrun a cheetah, polymorph.
Humans also can't use magic in the grand scheme of things.
Don't allow certain characteristics of the supernatural while banning others. That's annoying, especially when one of them is an incredibly strong spell and the other is a moderately weak feat.
EDIT: Also, +10 to land speed is incredibly bad for a feat. At level 1, I see it's usefulness... but after level 6, moving 40 feet per round is pretty useless.
At level 20, you should be able to sprint up and down mountains in minutes. +10 feet to speed does not help that.
Last edited by Aran Banks : 08-12-2010 at 03:36 PM.
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Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanqol
It's not normal, of course, and what's actually happening in Comet Kicker's brain is that she's using regular murder as therapy for worse murder. There's a breakdown in the works and all it needs is one good, hard kick.
Longstrider is a level one spell that improves land speed by 10ft. Even by WotC standards a feat should be at least as powerful as a second level spell (Heroics). I personally agree Aran Banks and would make the feat scale based on level. Here is my attempt.
Improved Speed [General]
Prereqs: Dex 13
Benefit: Gain +10ft Insight bonus to any one speed you possess. This bonus increases by 10ft at 5th level and every 5 levels there after.
Greater Speed [General]
Prereqs: Dex 15, Improved Speed
Benefit: Gain +10ft Insight bonus to all speeds you possess. This bonus increases by 10ft at 5th level and every 5 levels there after.
For a more cinematic game (and open to more powerful non-WotC material) I would double the bonus at 5th level and every 5 levels there after, ending up with a +160ft Insight bonus at 20th level. Which as Aran Banks pointed out is really no big deal in a world where teleport and the like exists.
Really making the feat scale by level is the best choice as at low levels +20 is too good and at high levels +60 is reasonable (maybe +10-ft/3 character levels). I'd actually look at the monk progression for it. Also note: humans aren't sprinters but we have a decent walking speed, most animals walk at a few miles per hour just like humans, but then they hustle or run much faster than we do. A horse walking isn't that fast and a human can easily keep up, but a horse trotting is faster than a human running. A deer can run 15 mph easy, but unless they run they're slower than humans. D&D does not account for this. So do you want to simulate human walking speed (which can reach greater than 5 mph through easy terrain with only a little bit of training) or human running speed (which even with a life time of training is slow)?
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Peanut Dracolich avatar by Emperor Ing.
Luck Blessed: My most recent homebrew (new as of mid May 2013).
If anybody is ever interested in playing one of my homebrewed base classes let me know, I'd love to see some of them in play and would try to run a game for it.
Really making the feat scale by level is the best choice as at low levels +20 is too good and at high levels +60 is reasonable (maybe +10-ft/3 character levels). I'd actually look at the monk progression for it. Also note: humans aren't sprinters but we have a decent walking speed, most animals walk at a few miles per hour just like humans, but then they hustle or run much faster than we do. A horse walking isn't that fast and a human can easily keep up, but a horse trotting is faster than a human running. A deer can run 15 mph easy, but unless they run they're slower than humans. D&D does not account for this. So do you want to simulate human walking speed (which can reach greater than 5 mph through easy terrain with only a little bit of training) or human running speed (which even with a life time of training is slow)?
Alright, 4 bits I pulled out:
1) At high levels? Like level 3? Or level 20? +20 becomes mundane after level 9... and at level 20, Balors can use dimension door at will.
2) Don't use the monk progression. There's a reason it's Tier 5.
3) I don't want to simulate any speed. After level 3, we should be going to crazytown. A human's real speed is completely irrelevant once you get to the point where characters can through fire and summon zombies.
4) For you: "Training" means a constant regimen of excercise.
For me: "Training" means killing dragons, swimming through lava, and enslaving Efreeti.
You need to think Fantasy. Real life takes people to level 3. Fantasy goes to level 20.
Luck Blessed: My most recent homebrew (new as of mid May 2013).
If anybody is ever interested in playing one of my homebrewed base classes let me know, I'd love to see some of them in play and would try to run a game for it.
I ship you/Anyone./Infernal Gardevoir from outside the playground, by Recaiden//ExtendedSig
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanqol
It's not normal, of course, and what's actually happening in Comet Kicker's brain is that she's using regular murder as therapy for worse murder. There's a breakdown in the works and all it needs is one good, hard kick.
Lix, after level 12, the feat will start getting dry. I mean +30 is nice... but at a certain point, people start to fly. And you need a big speed if you want to make the jump check to ride that dragon.
My feat concept:
Great Speed "Run, run, run, as fast as you can! You can't catch me; I'm the gingerbread man!"
This feat scales to your ECL:
1-4: Add 10 ft to any one base speed.
5-8: Add 20 ft to the same base speed.
9-12: Add 40 ft to the same base speed.
13-17: Add 80 ft to the same base speed.
18+: Add 160 feet to the same base speed.
... this should scale into epic levels, doubling every four levels. So at 22, you'd get +320 feet to that base speed.
ERRATA: Changed from "base land speed" to "any one base speed"
Last edited by Aran Banks : 08-12-2010 at 08:49 PM.
I ship you/Anyone./Infernal Gardevoir from outside the playground, by Recaiden//ExtendedSig
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanqol
It's not normal, of course, and what's actually happening in Comet Kicker's brain is that she's using regular murder as therapy for worse murder. There's a breakdown in the works and all it needs is one good, hard kick.
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