Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire, Mk. XXVII: God Has Nothing to do With This

[guttering flame]

So do I get a role in the new Snarkocrasy?

I was wondering, how much do Old Siggy and New Siggy resemble each other? Old Siggy had a pointy chin for one and his hair had volume and instead of sticking together.

[Glass Mouse]

@CurlyKitGirl: Your analyses are kinda fun to read, though I think I agree with, like... 10% of your conclusions. Most of your links actually just give me a nice feeling of nostalgia; "oh, that was back when everything was still light-hearted and charming."

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised by how much you hate on the characters' flaws early on in the story. You're gonna like later developments, then - when they turn into flawless Mary Sues
Personally, I miss the times when Dominic had trouble dealing with the Jacob trauma, when his puppet master ways were shown in an unsympathetic light, when Luna was insecure and could do wrong, and when Gregory was still childish.

Ah... Anyway, welcome to the thread! Here's a bunch of disagreement to start out

[Silverblood]

Originally Posted by TheLaughingMan

Alright. If no one pops out of the woodwork, I believe that's everyone.

*pops silently*

C'mon. I should get like... an ultrasnark point for the avatar('s context)



...too afraid of TVTropes to investigate for myself though

[Glass Mouse]

Originally Posted by Silverblood

*pops silently*

C'mon. I should get like... an ultrasnark point for the avatar('s context)



...too afraid of TVTropes to investigate for myself though

Wait, you did that fanart? You infiltrated Mookie with snark?

How can you be anything but The Mole? Or is Reverse Mole more suitable? Honestly, I'm not entirely sure who the real villains are here...

Incidentally, are the snarkerangers going to one of the first posts? That'd be awesome

[Silverblood]

Originally Posted by Glass Mouse

Wait, you did that fanart? You infiltrated Mookie with snark?

How can you be anything but The Mole? Or is Reverse Mole more suitable? Honestly, I'm not entirely sure who the real villains are here...

Incidentally, are the snarkerangers going to one of the first posts? That'd be awesome

Considering I was going to ask to be Iago.... that fits rather well :D And yes, twas me *bows*

[Lillith]

Okay, so Siggy´s mask is off. If Mookie actually intended it to be a mind controlling device (which come on, he should have at least mentioned. I mean you can't tell me he actually tried to 'show' not 'tell'!) then it is offline now.

So what's Siggy going to do next? He does not seem amused in the slightest, also he looks a bit demonic. Perhaps he's changing into a demon Lord himself, who knows. But it's certain that Siggy got demonized in a figurative and literal sense. Of course we'll have to wait for more 'development' but I'm going to guess and say Siggy's going to be an evil bastard from here on onward. Especially because Mookie seems to try and do everything in his power to make us hate Siggy because *gasp!* he's EVIL!!!!

So Mookie, if he'd go that route, would derail Siggy's character completely by negating any shred of goodness he had in his being which we saw over the course of the series. He's most likely going out on a quest for revenge and anger and badness by fighting Karnak and trying to kill him... WHICH I LIKE!

I mean come on, Siggy rising up here as a demon lord and trying to kill Karnak? That's totally something I'd root! Maybe he'll slay Bulgak again and some other Orcs that might have taken a left turn instead of the required orc right.

Of course technically I'm not really happy if Siggy would go the all evil route, mostly because it wouldn't feel natural to me and because I get the feeling the only reason it happens is because Mookie wants us to hate him. Which for some reason makes me love Siggy even more. Considering the fact that in the beginning I didn't like Siggy and have started to like him the more Mookie tried to make him a despicable character, I'd call that ironic.

Anyways. We got a (semi) demonic, possibly derailed Siggy that has his own will again. A giant hell place where at least one orc he hates resides. Plus a dominating figure that made him his lapdog. Now if only Siggy would find his dad they could rule hell together and stab Dominic from beneath!

[Deme]

Originally Posted by TheLaughingMan

There. Now both you and T-O-E are wedded to anarchy. And each other.

It gives Deme something to do.

Eh, I'm not actually a yaoi fan. Just a HoYay fan to the extreme. It's a totally different dynamic.

[Shadows]

I don't have too much of a problem with my page. There's just one thing that bothers me about Siggy. He keeps turning towards the camera. Can he see us watching him, or is Karnak standing just behind us? Who knows?

[SlyGuyMcFly]

This page consfuses me. Is it that Siggy was being controlled by Karnak, but is evil anyway?

[Ignition]

I think he's just mad he caught the tusk-mouth. It is apparently the most debilitating deformity ever, what with all the horrid mockery and no other discernable disadvantage and so on. He resembles that which he hates the most! I feel ba-

*cackles manaically* Oh wow I can't finish this with a straight face

Yeah, I figured this would happen. I was hoping the mask wasn't a mind-control thing, but I guess it would be impossible for Mookie to not riddle a character who could have been his most interesting with stupid cliche plot devices.

So, who wants to talk about pie in the meantime between now and when this "arc" ends?

[Arcanoi]

One the of the most disconcerting parts of Dominic Deegan is the sheer laziness of how Mookie draws faces. This comic highlights it quite obviously, what with the dramatic zoom-to-face-KKHAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!-esque episode there at the end. Looking at the rest of the comic shows a man with at least passing familiarity with quality art, if only enough to point at it and remark on its quality, what with at least slightly realists poses, but Siggy's face is precisely comical in how silly and generally unintimidating it looks. It reminds me of an evil face my nephew might draw.

[Oracle_Hunter]

News Flash!

Originally Posted by Mookie

I'm also working on a few experimental t-shirt designs that incorporate some of my amateur photography. More on that next week as well.

Nnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[Humbug]

so, t-shirts with photos of bloody girls in bathtubs printed on them?

I know, it's a cheap shot, heh.

[Lillith]

Originally Posted by Mookie

Not that I have much experience with infernal butchery outside of my pen and paper.

Okay now people be honest, who didn't manage to keep a straight face while reading that line?

[Oracle_Hunter]

Originally Posted by Humbug

so, t-shirts with photos of bloody girls in bathtubs printed on them?

I know, it's a cheap shot, heh.

What else can it mean? I honestly don't know!

[Glass Mouse]

Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter

What else can it mean? I honestly don't know!

Maybe a t-shirt with a splash of blood, so you can look like a dead girl in a bathtub?
...well, if you place yourself in a bathtub, that is.

Originally Posted by Lillith

Okay now people be honest, who didn't manage to keep a straight face while reading that line?

I'm not sure what you're thinking of. Personally, I thought it was slightly entertaining.

Though it does carry the unfortunate implication that he doesn't even look for inspiration in other people's stories but pulls it all out of his own head. Which is a really bad way of being a writer.

[M84]

Heyall,

If Mookie wanted us to really hate Siggy, he probably shouldn't have stuck him in a place where the only other people he can hurt are also total bastards.

If he really wanted us to hate Siggy, he should put him in a position to hurt a character we actually like. Granted, that list is pretty short for me at least: Nurse Pam and Dex. I have varying degrees of contempt for the others.

As it stands, everything Siggy does in this arc will fall under Kick The Son Of A B****, which only increases a villain's popularity.

Edit: Wait, I do like the Dryad and Dirk too.

...Oh man I just realized that they haven't had a focus arc yet. I really hope Mookie just forgot about them. Knowing Mookie, he'll probably reveal that the Dryad cheated on Dirk with another character we aren't supposed to like.

[Deme]

Originally Posted by M84

Heyall,

If Mookie wanted us to really hate Siggy, he probably shouldn't have stuck him in a place where the only other people he can hurt are also total bastards.

If he really wanted us to hate Siggy, he should put him in a position to hurt a character we actually like. Granted, that list is pretty short for me at least: Nurse Pam and Dex. I have varying degrees of contempt for the others.

As it stands, everything Siggy does in this arc will fall under Kick The Son Of A B****, which only increases a villain's popularity.

Edit: Wait, I do like the Dryad and Dirk too.

...Oh man I just realized that they haven't had a focus arc yet. I really hope Mookie just forgot about them. Knowing Mookie, he'll probably reveal that the Dryad cheated on Dirk with another character we aren't supposed to like.

Mookie, I think, does not understand like. Or hate. Or why other people do these things. Or other people. We all can tell that Mookie hasn't changed Siggy's arc (a complete 180, really: Siggy's arc was about redemption until Mookie realized that we like a difficult, conflicted redemption story) because he thought it really would be more compelling: he wants us to hate him, but without understanding that we can tell that this isn't consistant with an earlier Siggy, the one people liked. As a result, we just hate Mookie. I mean, look at what happened with Warlord Mustache, Hero of the World. Mookie does a pretty lousy job of convincing us to feel along with his story, possibly because he has all the consistancy and subtlety of a raging bull-Tarrasque (because just a bull or just the Tarrasque would be too subtle.)

He'd ruin Dirk, for certain: Dirk is just a scaled-down Jock, after all! He'd end up severely disfigured or have his life ripped from him cruelly.
Likewise, as much as I love Dex and Pam and Dex x Pam... I really don't want Mookie to show them again. I'd love it if I could just imagine that they went off to live happily ever after, going about their buisness with, here and there, a moment of shared tenderness as the sane people trying to hold together a mad world.
...In fact, I think my rule of thumb now is that if I like a character, relationship, or dynamic... that I never want Mookie to show us them again, for fear of derailment.
His treatment of Siggy, Milov, and Jayden collectively made sure that I cannot trust him as an author anymore. Which is bad writing, right there. You may not be able to trust your narrator, or your hero, but when you can't trust the author? The dream that is any sort of fiction, any sort of narrative, shatters into a thousand pieces.
Come to that, that last sentence may be my reason to Snark. The pieces are interesting to look at, but I can't trust, so I can't enjoy purely for itself.

[Domochevsky]

Originally Posted by averagejoe

...
Dominus is Latin for "lord," and I assume it and dominate have similar roots.
...

...wait, so we've been calling him Lord Lord all this time? Whoops.


Meanwhile, the first thing that jumped at me in today's strip was Siggy's utter lack of nipples. Somehow the scars draw even more attention to it. A double sized shot like that certainly doesn't help either. >_>

[Coidzor]

Originally Posted by TheLaughingMan

Okay, so, here are the new and improved Snarkerangers. I may have gotten the dates wrong though, so feel free to correct me.

Long Runners (i.e. Since Snowsong)Coidzor

Do you mean reading since Snowsong or part of the thread since Snowsong? I don't remember popping into the thread that early. Actually, I think the first time I stopped reading was a bit after Snowsong. Well, Snowsong is the last thing I can remember clearly before I stopped off on reading.

Hmm... In retrospect, I think I popped in every now and then during the Nimmel bit and the Bland Arc, coming more in with the tail end of that and really checking the thread regularly during the WILD EDGE!


A thought occurs to me. What if Melna's dad is in hell because where you go depends on how society views your actions at the time rather than anything actually based in something objective. Extrapolating from that, what if Infernomancers only actually go because they believe they're supposed to.

Ooo, what if we find Warlord Mustache killing him? That'd be fun.

Why am I thinking about this? x.x

Siggy's face. Pseudo-Snout. (Is he re-evolving the snout or evolving away from it, you think?)

[SaintRidley]

Originally Posted by Coidzor

Siggy's face. Pseudo-Snout. (Is he re-evolving the snout or evolving away from it, you think?)

I don't think it's a snout. Mookie just fails at noses, because Siggy's nose is way off centre and that other thing that looks kind of like a nostril is probably supposed to be a dimple thing like you get when you up-turn your mouth.

[Coidzor]

Originally Posted by SaintRidley

I don't think it's a snout. Mookie just fails at noses, because Siggy's nose is way off centre and that other thing that looks kind of like a nostril is probably supposed to be a dimple thing like you get when you up-turn your mouth.

Well, yeah, the nose seems to be migrating towards the mouth. Or away from it, depending upon your view of the direction....

[CurlyKitGirl]

Originally Posted by averagejoe

Dominus is Latin for "lord," and I assume it and dominate have similar roots.

Now if only I could believe it was deliberate. But from what I've gathered from my lurking, and from my own 'serious analysis', it isn't.

Originally Posted by averagejoe

Heh. See, from our point of view, that's fairly peanuts. Stuff actually happened in that arc. The vacation arc was a lot of filler, but Maltak was a veritable behemoth, over a year and nothing. Happened.

Ohboyno.
I'm very not looking forward to those arcs then, but I must keep an open mind.
I'd also like to point out that I've analysed maybe ten months of webcomic in two, three days. However, as this is the Golden Age of the Great Dominus things are actually happening. I don't know if this will keep up. But I'm kind of hoping so.
That means I can get through the hated Maltak arc in two days.
Please, please, please wish me luck and speed.

Originally Posted by averagejoe

Some of this stuff you're saying about Dominic being evil is uncannily spot on. After reading further into the comic you should go back and read these, just to see how right you are.

. . . If this is so, that means Mookie has been foreshadowing the evil of the Great Dominus. This would mean that he's a competent author.
Of course, my character interpretation is very different to how Mookie intended his Dominus to be.

Originally Posted by Glass Mouse

@CurlyKitGirl: Your analyses are kinda fun to read, though I think I agree with, like... 10% of your conclusions. Most of your links actually just give me a nice feeling of nostalgia; "oh, that was back when everything was still light-hearted and charming."

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised by how much you hate on the characters' flaws early on in the story. You're gonna like later developments, then - when they turn into flawless Mary Sues
Personally, I miss the times when Dominic had trouble dealing with the Jacob trauma, when his puppet master ways were shown in an unsympathetic light, when Luna was insecure and could do wrong, and when Gregory was still childish.

Ah... Anyway, welcome to the thread! Here's a bunch of disagreement to start out

To be honest Miss Mouse, I'm enioying overplaying their flaws in the name of snark; but the point still remains that their flaws (which I genuinely find interesting and fun) can be interpreted as evil. or worrying.

This is fun. And their characterisation as flawed, deeply troubled people is fascinating. But they do become perfect Mary Sues - that's one of the many reasons I left during the Vaction arc.
But in the early days, I can revel in the flaws. They make for fantastic analysing. My current overarching theory (to be expanded upon after the end of each age) is that Mookie may have originally intended for the comic to be a deconstruction of the magical hero archetype; with the Great Dominus being a very anti-hero, or a villain protagonist in a morally ambiguous world.

Buuuuuut, he didn't have the skill.

VIsions of Doom should be up tonight.

[Coidzor]

The sad thing is, I used to like the name Dominic as something I might consider to name my kid even though I'm not black.

Now, I... I don't think I could.

[averagejoe]

Originally Posted by CurlyKitGirl

Please, please, please wish me luck and speed.

Good luck. If you don't return we shall build a pyre in your honor.

[Lillith]

Originally Posted by Coidzor

The sad thing is, I used to like the name Dominic as something I might consider to name my kid even though I'm not black.

Now, I... I don't think I could.

I still love the name Luna though. I can't be bothered by the fact that I named my cat like that. Then again, she's named after this Luna.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Analysing Dominus Deegan

The Golden Age*
A Frail Hope of Adequate Enjoyment
21/05/2002 - 17/07/2002 Arcs covered: Oracle for Hire, The Curse
The First Signs of Serious Psychological Issues Appear
18/07/2002 - 4/12/2002 Arcs covered: The Curse, Luna, Into the Woods
In Which Teh Great Dominus Indulges in Torture and Terrifies Me
5/12/2002 - 21/02/2003 Arcs covered: Into the Woods, Couch Forts and Crying
Dominatrix Luna. Oh, and The Dominus is More Feared Than A Necromancer
22/01/2003 - 11/03/2003 Arcs covered: Makeover!, Mob Mentality

Thing Are Looking Up

12/03/2003 - 30/04/2003 Arcs covered: Visions of Doom Parts One and Two

Spoiler

Puns and alliteration. Funny? Well, it's cute. The next page brings us the return of Siggy! This arc is looking up, I'll even excuse the Great Dominus' pity fest, he has his reasons. Wait. Lynne's Brook? Brook Lynne. Inexcusable! I bet Mookie lives in Brooklyn. Oh, and would this message be about the evil seer who threatened death, doom and destruction for a relatively small slight? Oh, okay, Gregory and Luna: evil wizards.
Congratulations, one of the Royal Knights of Callan believes two of the three to be evil. Lord Dan and Lady Iayden look fun. Especially Lord Dan, he has a beard. Well, soul patch. And a pony tail. And a flowery mandarin-collared shirt? Camp or metrosexual? But they all three look like good friends.
Hell, they're an adventuring party. Off to slay the wizards, the evil wizards of Lynne's Brook.
Okay, this is cute, it's a sweet interaction between them, showing that the Great Dominus doesn't believe Luna's ugly, and that she should stop hating herself; she makes him happy. Alternatively, you could argue that he's only smiling because he shut her up and can finally rest in peace. But given the next page, I choose cute and sweet moment. Please note also that the romantic/sexual attraction blush is present.
Art criticism time! The fingers in the first panel are massively bloated, and I truly believe the Great Dominus looks better without glasses. This is because the Great Dominus is 'perfect' and anything that hints at imperfection is Wrong in the Sight of the Great Dominus. And there's creepy vision. Again, with questionable art. Is that melty thing an arm? How is it attached to his shoulder? And there is no way a wrist can bend like that. Where's his elbow?
What is wrong with Iacob's left arm?!
Not to mention that the Vision Sight has changed again from glassy silver eyes to completely blank circles.
And Iacob's right(?) hand has three fingers. And then Siggy! How strong does he have to be to thrust his hand (open palmed!) through a door and then pull the Great Dominus through it? Answer: very. Siggy's opinion here is valid for an outsider with a mostly neutral opinion of the Great DOminus. Then again, so is the Great Dominus' point of view in the next comic. It's also a punchline that made me smile.
However, Siggy's actions are overreactive and too brutal for a simple arrest. I am referring to Gregory's assault as the Great Dominus' arrest was swift and relatively painless. Even Lady Iayden believes Siggy's gone too far. Taking into account Siggy's initial appearance in the comic, it's safe to say he has rage issues.
And yet he's taken out with one magical attack, so competency with hand-to-hand and the sword, but he's easily taken by surprise. He also knows from the report that Luna is a capable wizard, so he's arrogant too. This is perfectly in keeping with his character so far, although his beating up of Gregory is a little much. I'm undecided as to whether this was a deliberate start down the slippery slope of villainy to make Siggy a complex character, or if Mookie simply doesn't like Siggy.
Speaking of complexity. Luna uses black magic powered by rage and hatred. Given that we know white is healing, and black is harmful, and the typical connotations of black magic, Luna has iust used an evil spell. Lord Dan has also pointed out the unusual swiftness of the casting, making the reader see that Luna holds in her anger and hate. On the one hand, the use of the spell is iustified, on the other hand it's a little worrying.
Lord Dan is a werewolf. He's also honourable and lawful, as seen by his dialogue. And is a wizard. As is Iayden. Who also knew Luna. I'll allow this coincidence.
And the Great Dominus has a vision in his unconsciousness of . . . Stunt hanging people? It is Stunt, but with different hair from earlier. Stunt's a mass murderer now? Or simply poor art. Now, from previous appearances Stunt's willing to kill, but he's a knife nut, and this ominous hooded lurking doesn't seem typical of Stunt, so I call poor art. However, if it is Stunt I'll be pleasantly surprised as it would explain why he and Bumper kept trying to rob a seer.
But it's Iacob. A blond Iacob. When all previous appearances show him to have black hair. And don't get me started on the genetic improbabilities of three male siblings have black, brown and blond hair. Unless Iacob went Goth and dyed his hair. Also: why does Lord Dan have a sixpack in werewolf form?
Oddly, it takes almost all of VoD 1 for the Great Dominus to display anti-social, ierkiness and idiocy. So far this arc he's been reasonable and nice. In the last two comics linked the Great Dominus is deliberately antagonising someone who less than half an hour ago knocked him unconscious in one punch and beat his little brother senseless. Oh, and does anyone else have the unsettling feeling that you could turn the Great Dominus into Lady Iayden if you made his hair longer and took away his glasses? Because you could. And another nice moment. Not as sweet as the earlier one, but still nice.
VoD 2 is a mere nine pages long. I don't really know why.
The Great Dominus once more displays his hatred of humanity in a manner which leaves Luna stunned speechless. Note too how he refers to the people he's lived with for years as "morons" and "idiots".
Oh, and zombies. Gregory displays common sense and stops the Great Dominus in his tracks, pointing out that, although he is Great, he isn't a great magician despite his deep-seated belief that he's better than everyone else in the world. I will say though that the Great Dominus may wish to protect Gregory from Iacob by not letting him come though, as I doubt he would go up against an evil necromancer without any backup. For his own safety if nothing else. So we get white magic to kill zombies, and offensive magic to kill everything else. And another cute moment. That's three in two months of comic.
But the typical personality of the Great Dominus comes back with his "going away present" to his village. It's raining books. This would cause heavy structural damage to buildings, and potential concussions or skull fractures or worse. And what about the children of the village? Granted, they're probbaly inside now, but at the beginning of the rain, they would have been outside. With their fragile, still-forming bones.
Vindictive much Great Dominus? Iust because your customers weren't exactly smart, and there was one mob, on whom you already took your vengeance, doesn't mean you can inflict actual bodily harm on them again. And not to mention you do have some friends in that village. Well, you did before you assaulted them.
And here ends the arc.

Overall, the characterisation is consistent, especially for the secondary characters of Siggy, Dan and Iayden. Gregory's more teenaged here, and you can see him develop a crush on Iayden.
Luna is, oddly, the most evil of the primary trio in these two parts, although in all fairness, it was only one outburst (and it is the emotions behind it which worry me), but it's nice to see she's willing to fight to save her family. The timeline though is apparently one week according to the Great Dominus, so we'll say that the entire comic so far has spanned two weeks maximum. And Luna claims the Great Dominus and Gregory - the latter she has known for no more than three days - as family. Luna is clingy, but given what they've gone through, I'll allow it to pass.
The Great Dominus is oddly personable and caring so far. Perhaps the shocking visions and close companionship would allow him to actually understand normality and compassion. He still displays evidence of his usual sociopathic and anti-social self; but he seems to be growing as a person. Especially in regards to Luna.

This arc is very promising, the tension between Siggy's group and the Great Dominus' group is promising, and it looks like they'll meet up again soon. The Iacob threat is tantalising, and given the reaction of the Great Dominus it should make for a good confrontation.
I am actually looking forward to this arc. Things are moving at a fast pace, events are occuring rapidly and promise good things to come.

I have a feeling that I'll miss this arc the further I progress into this webcomic.

*Ages as defined by Trazoi here.

[TheLaughingMan]

Originally Posted by averagejoe

Good luck. If you don't return we shall build a pyre in your honor.

I call her stuff.

[Coidzor]

Originally Posted by averagejoe

Good luck. If you don't return we shall build a pyre in your honor.

Hmm... But I wonder what the traditional wood for such is in England. I mean, they don't have mesquite or hickory to temper the smoke with...

Juniper maybe?

Juniper sounds good to me.

[rocketpony]

Originally Posted by averagejoe

Good luck. If you don't return we shall build a pyre in your honor.

I'll bring marshmallows!

Or is that a faux pas?