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Thread: So, Malack...
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2013-02-26, 06:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So, Malack...
That's right. The "sad" thing here is that Durkon did not seek to turn Malack's willingness to compromise to his advantage in proposing terms that would have been of more benefit to his team.
They might still ended up fighting if no common ground is found, but at least he would have tried and knowing that Malack hate Nale, Durkon should be able to guess that Malack is not in the ride happily and use that to turn the tables in some way. I would have give this a shot, at least, in Durkon's shoes.
And the first proposal from Malack wasn't all that bad, though you'd need to be a bit more "Haley minded" to see that. The terms were only not to hurt each other. If the rest of the order were to kick Malack's ass, it's fair game. Same to heal them if Malack goes wild on them.
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2013-02-26, 06:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-02-26, 06:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So, Malack...
It's a bad idea to tell someone there's enough power to destroy the world, when they're capable of being reasonable? That makes no sense at all.
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2013-02-26, 06:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So, Malack...
Elan is human. Tarquin is human.
Durkon is a dwarf. Malack is a vampire.
Call it what you will, but to absolutely refuse to associate or compromise with an individual based on preconceived notions of their activities by their race (or type, or affliction, or whatever you want to call it) is still racist. D&D terms are not exactly clear on what specifies a race or species within their rules, so it is open to anyone's interpretation.
You could call it racism, bigotry, or just unwillingness to see the point of view of another.
And to say that Heroes don't compromise with Evil is incredibly narrow minded.
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2013-02-26, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-02-26, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: So, Malack...
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2013-02-26, 06:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: So, Malack...
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2013-02-26, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-02-26, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So, Malack...
Ehm... "he got us grabbed by the balls 'cuz he knows critical info about the man we are looking for" and "unfortunately, we are too busy trying to avoid the end of the world to care about Tarquin - for now" are very different from "I'm gonna stand aside while my friends battle for the Gate over which the destiny of the World is hanging"
No. Malack was a lizarfolk. Durkon has no problem with his former species, just with the fact that Malack is now an evil abomination who needs to feed on the lifeforce of the living.
And, since Durkon just saved Belkar from being sucked up by Malak and turned into a vampire spawn... I guess it's not fair to describe Durkon's actitude as working under "Preconceived notions of their activities".
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2013-02-26, 06:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-02-26, 06:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So, Malack...
Really? Because in the strip right before this, Durkon immediately assumes upon learning Malack is a vampire that he goes around drinking the blood of the innocent.
And in case you didn't bother to read my above post...I already said you can call it whatever you want, not specifically racism. Bigotry works, prejudice works, racism works, hatred of the living impaired works. Don't get hung up on the technicalities.
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2013-02-26, 06:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So, Malack...
I do, however, wonder what the poor strawman ever did to you. - Kish
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2013-02-26, 06:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So, Malack...
No, it was not. The OOTS was not yelding in their objectives, neither accepting to advance Tarquin's. Also, Tarquin was not an opponent force back then.
And, despite that, Elan attemped to put Tarquin out of bussines the very moment he found out his Dad was Evil - and would have done so, should he had been capable of out-pun him.
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2013-02-26, 06:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-02-26, 06:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: So, Malack...
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2013-02-26, 06:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So, Malack...
I would agree to this, but what other choice did Malack have? Durkon has already admitted that there would never be anything more than animosity between them from now on, and so Durkon would remain as a threat to both Malack, Tarquin and the entire Linear Guild. With compromise off of the table, attacking Durkon is the best choice for both his own safety and that of his allies, especially whereas the rest of the OotS is not present.
Perhaps. But considering these people are doomed to die by execution anyway, they don't exactly need the blood. The fact is, Malack is not breaking into houses (well, he can't do that as a Vampire anyway) and snatching up people with long lives ahead of them and feasting away.
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2013-02-26, 06:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2003
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Re: So, Malack...
Yes, it is. Good thing that's not what Durkon is doing.
It is not a "preconception" that Malack was in the middle of draining Belkar's blood by force, or that Malack just admitted to benefiting from the executions that he himself helped put into place. And as I mentioned in the main discussion thread, Durkon is not JUST reacting to Malack's vampirism here; a few strips ago, he was willing to argue with Haley that Malack couldn't possibly team up with Nale to seize the Gate—a belief he has just had disproven.
If Durkon had been sitting in Malack's study drinking tea with him, recognized what was in it, and jumped up and yelled, "Yer a vampire! I must kill ye!" then that would be racism, because there would be no evidence that Malack was at all a threat to anyone, anywhere. That is not what is happening in this scene.
Malack does not know Belkar at all. He does not know that Belkar is not innocent, and Durkon knows that Malack does not know.Rich Burlew
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2013-02-26, 07:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So, Malack...
Or, he could have surrendered to the good and righteous, and relinquished his material and formal cooperation with evil schemes.
That he fails to do so doesn't mean he's not evil, in fact I'd say his going into vamp mode and attacking proves he's a true believer in Tarquin's side.
Just because he's doing what's best for his current interests, does not mean his interests are for the good.
Or for the neutral.I do, however, wonder what the poor strawman ever did to you. - Kish
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2013-02-26, 07:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So, Malack...
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2013-02-26, 07:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-02-26, 07:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: So, Malack...
No. He is--as Durkon pointed out--participating in making rules which bring innocent people's long lives to an abbreviated end. This argument is no more valid than, "He wasn't going to live anyway, because I'd already broken his neck."
Loyalty to something like Tarquin is not a morally neutral quality. Tarquin's favored son realizes that. Why doesn't Malack? I mean, other than "because Malack is nearly as evil as Tarquin himself."Last edited by Kish; 2013-02-26 at 07:05 PM.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2013-02-26, 07:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-02-26, 07:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So, Malack...
The extent of his participation within the Empire has not been fully explored. If Malack personally designed these laws, I would agree with you. If he spent his time convincing Tarquin to make them less harsh, I would not.
To not do the right thing in favour of loyalty is a lawful outlook, and one of either neutral or evil standing.
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2013-02-26, 07:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-02-26, 07:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: So, Malack...
No, it would be the right thing to do if he was Good. Betraying a friend that is Evil to an ex-friend that is Good is the wrong thing to do if you are Neutral or, of course, Evil.
That said, Rich has just quite clearly hinted that Malack is Evil in his post. So at this point I'll withdraw my position on "Malack might be Neutral".
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2013-02-26, 07:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: So, Malack...
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2013-02-26, 07:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: So, Malack...
I'm personally hoping Miko returns for 1 panel to cast Detect Evil and put the debate to rest.
...and someone who is neutral will favour their secondary alignment, which is that of Law in this case. Showing loyalty to a friend rather than "Doing the right thing" (the right thing being subjective to point of view) is consistent with a Lawful Neutral alignment.
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2013-02-26, 07:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: So, Malack...
No good. Even if Malack was Good-aligned, the negative energy that animates him would trigger Detect Evil, in the same way Xykon's crown made Roy appear strongly evil.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2013-02-26, 07:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-02-26, 07:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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