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  1. - Top - End - #961
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    This might shock you, but you don't *need* anyone but yourself. You will survive, regardless of whether you have a girlfriend or not.

  2. - Top - End - #962
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    Quote Originally Posted by qbit View Post
    Yes, it's very reasonable to want to.
    No, don't do it, it's a horrible idea.
    That phrase is basically half of life. The other half is:

    Yes it's hard work
    Yes, you need to do it anyway.

  3. - Top - End - #963
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadManSleeping View Post
    That phrase is basically half of life. The other half is:

    Yes it's hard work
    Yes, you need to do it anyway.
    Don't give him any ideas.

  4. - Top - End - #964
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    Mostly I was just musing on the ironic simplicity of life, but I suppose I should add in a qualifier.

    *DON'T SEND A BIG LETTER OF ALL YOUR FEELINGS TO AN EX. SERIOUSLY, IT'S A BAD IDEA.

    Anyway.

  5. - Top - End - #965
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    qbit: Set up your mail client or server to filter all OUTGOING mail to any e-mail address of hers, to not actually send it, if you can.

    That way, if you're ever drunk and in a moment of weakness, you'll have to be sufficiently sober to find that setting to actually send it.

  6. - Top - End - #966
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    Quote Originally Posted by qbit View Post
    That sounds like a lot of work, to spare someone that doesn't care a about me some annoyance.
    And as I don't drink it wouldn't help anyway.

    But like I said, I'm doing good so far
    It's not so much to spare her the annoyance, as you put it, but spare yourself the issues stemming from reopening that door unnecessarily. And being drunk isn't the only thing that it would help with. It'll give you that extra reminder to ask yourself: "do I *really* want to do this?" Making myself ask that question is a major factor in why I don't save my credit card info to sites that I a) trust, and b) will buy from again in the future. It gives me one last reminder to think about whether it's a purchase I actually want to make, the same way having that extra step in sending an email will give you one last chance to reconsider something that you've said you recognize is a bad idea.
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  7. - Top - End - #967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotchland View Post
    This might shock you, but you don't *need* anyone but yourself. You will survive, regardless of whether you have a girlfriend or not.
    Well..... humans are a social animal. There's a reason solitary confinement will screw with most people. So, yes, you don't "need" anyone else, but it certainly helps keep you on an even keel.
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  8. - Top - End - #968
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    Quote Originally Posted by Sholos View Post
    Well..... humans are a social animal. There's a reason solitary confinement will screw with most people. So, yes, you don't "need" anyone else, but it certainly helps keep you on an even keel.
    A couple panels down, explaining the purpose of working away from home, and why it's a socially bad idea.

    Some humans (I include myself here) don't truly need social contact. I prefer solitude over having some person who doesn't know the meaning of "please go away". Isolation gives you time to think, and I think that's why teenagers at my high-school are so mind-numbingly STUPID.
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  9. - Top - End - #969
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    Not everyone requires the same amount or same kind of social contact, but everyone requires social contact. Do you know how many things in your brain and body are devoted to absolutely nothing but socializing? It's a pretty large number. Let me give a very VERY cursory overview.

    1. Language. You could think without language. It exists for no other reason than to transmit information from one brain to another. There are multiple areas associated with the formation, interpretation, and acquisition of language in your brain. And by that, I mean multiple for each one of those. And that's not even getting into non-primary languages.
    2. Your face. You know how you have the ability to move your eyebrows? That serves no other purpose than expressing things to other people. All those muscles and reflexes devoted to facial expression are solely for the enjoyment of other humans (well, and sometimes pets, but they're for substitute proto-human companionship anyway).
    3. Your entire body's unconscious reflexes like laughter, ticklishness, posture, gesticulation, and so on. Do you think it's a coincidence that people in a guarded mood more often have their arms crossed? It's not. That takes a good deal of infrastructure.
    4. Sense calibrations. Humans have a horrible sense of smell compared to most other animals, and we can STILL smell mood and hormone signatures on each other unconsciously. You can pick human faces and shapes out of almost anything because of how incredibly fixed your brain is on human faces and shapes.

    I'm missing a TON here, but the fact is, your body is better constructed to socialize than it is to do, well, pretty much anything a modern human does other than socialize (with the exception of people who chase down game with pointy sticks or harvest wild plants in the savanna), and your brain is often grabbing at straws just to find anything similar to it.

    Can a person live without human contact? Yes. Will it take a toll on their psychology? Immensely.

  10. - Top - End - #970
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    Let's back up a few posts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Scotchland View Post
    This might shock you, but you don't *need* anyone but yourself. You will survive, regardless of whether you have a girlfriend or not.
    I had been focusing on his relationship status, not the entirety of his social existence.

    Humans do require social contact with other humans. It's what makes us human. Without it, there's no exchange of ideas and no conflict. If our ideas are not challenged, we risk developing a habit of intellectual incest.

    Like everything, it's about finding your center. You might be comfortable being sidelined from the turmoil of social politics. That's fine. But being isolated completely? Only the most jaded solipsist can withstand that.
    Last edited by Grinner; 2012-03-11 at 10:28 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #971
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadManSleeping View Post
    I'm missing a TON here, but the fact is, your body is better constructed to socialize than it is to do, well, pretty much anything a modern human does other than socialize (with the exception of people who chase down game with pointy sticks or harvest wild plants in the savanna), and your brain is often grabbing at straws just to find anything similar to it.

    Can a person live without human contact? Yes. Will it take a toll on their psychology? Immensely.
    I've spent time inside those "safety" (read: small enclosed rooms with a door that is not visible, a single light bulb far above the ground, and padded walls. There is nothing to do there but think. And let me tell you, you can tell yourself that socialization is required, but there are some minds in this world that think otherwise. Maybe I'm not one of them, but you should just ask one of the security staff at a school for the "mentally deficient" how it all works.

    It will be one of the most disturbing things you'll ever be forced to consider. I promise you.
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  12. - Top - End - #972
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sholos View Post
    Well..... humans are a social animal. There's a reason solitary confinement will screw with most people. So, yes, you don't "need" anyone else, but it certainly helps keep you on an even keel.
    The key distinction to be made here is needing people (as friends, family, etc) and needing to be in a relationship. You can do just fine, even remaining on an even keel, without the latter. Trying to go completely without the former, however? Not such a good plan. How much socialization you, personally, want is something each of us has to decide. I know that for me, even though I like being by myself at times, I'm usually in a better mood (and am more productive) when I at least have the option to chat with someone.

    My guess is that this isn't so much something that needs to be said to Sholos or Scotchland, but a clarification for those who might read Sholos' comment as being a counterpoint to Scotch's.

    Triscuitable (edit: this is regarding your earlier post, about the classmates and them being stupid): The distinction is between 'friends' and 'people who happen to be there'. Friends will allow you to be solitary when necessary, but provide you with an outlet when you need one. 'People who happen to be there' fall into one of a few categories: strangers (no need to consider them, as we tend to avoid socializing with strangers), acquaintances (typically just get an acknowledgement when passing them), and coworkers/classmates (learning to interact when necessary is important, but no need to go further than that if you don't want to).

    Also, everything DMS said. We're built to be social - fighting that will only cause problems.
    Last edited by rogueboy; 2012-03-11 at 10:36 PM.
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  13. - Top - End - #973
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    I enjoy my solitude, but I also like having people to be around when I want or need them.
    Jude P.

  14. - Top - End - #974
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triscuitable View Post
    Maybe I'm not one of them, but you should just ask one of the security staff at a school for the "mentally deficient" how it all works.

    It will be one of the most disturbing things you'll ever be forced to consider. I promise you.
    Mental health is a disturbing topic in general. But, if people who "prefer solitude" are locked away for their safety and the safety of others, I think that goes further toward my point of socialization being key to mental health.

    Back to the focus of relationships.

    It's quite true that nobody needs a romantic relationship. I am actually quite content without a romantic relationship. I could live a full life and die happy without one. But I still really want a fulfilling romantic relationship. However, there are aromantic people who are still quite socially functional. Romance, love, and sex are all pretty important, but if you have enough going on in your life, you can get along without them. Generally. As I pointed out earlier, though, levels of need vary from person to person. I imagine there are many people who are in a much sorrier state without romance.

  15. - Top - End - #975
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    Quote Originally Posted by noparlpf View Post
    I enjoy my solitude, but I also like having people to be around when I want or need them.
    A perfect summary of what I couldn't put to words.
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  16. - Top - End - #976
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadManSleeping View Post
    Mental health is a disturbing topic in general. But, if people who "prefer solitude" are locked away for their safety and the safety of others, I think that goes further toward my point of socialization being key to mental health.

    Back to the focus of relationships.

    It's quite true that nobody needs a romantic relationship. I am actually quite content without a romantic relationship. I could live a full life and die happy without one. But I still really want a fulfilling romantic relationship. However, there are aromantic people who are still quite socially functional. Romance, love, and sex are all pretty important, but if you have enough going on in your life, you can get along without them. Generally. As I pointed out earlier, though, levels of need vary from person to person. I imagine there are many people who are in a much sorrier state without romance.
    I'm totally cool without a romantic or sexual relationship. I don't even want one. I could even go without platonic friendships, but it definitely wouldn't be very good for me. When I come back to school after summer breaks I can pass as insane due to the constant muttering to myself. If I lived alone instead of with family it would be worse, because at least I have a little practice with human interaction as long as they're around to bother me.

    DeadManSleeping, I think I'm going to borrow your signature. I constantly worry whether I manage to convert my thoughts into words properly.
    Jude P.

  17. - Top - End - #977
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueboy View Post
    Also, everything DMS said. We're built to be social - fighting that will only cause problems.
    Except that some of us aren't built to be social.

    *points to self* If I weren't so used to talking to people so much and hadn't trained myself to be a social human bean, then I could go for days without seeing anyone and be perfectly happy and well adjusted and as sane as I've ever been (been there, done that, tshirts, etc.).
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  18. - Top - End - #978
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castaras View Post
    Except that some of us aren't built to be social.

    *points to self* If I weren't so used to talking to people so much and hadn't trained myself to be a social human bean, then I could go for days without seeing anyone and be perfectly happy and well adjusted and as sane as I've ever been (been there, done that, tshirts, etc.).
    The average human can also go days without eating without any long-lasting effects, so that's a pretty short time scale to work with.

    Also, if you talked to people on the internet, that counts.

  19. - Top - End - #979
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadManSleeping View Post
    The average human can also go days without eating without any long-lasting effects, so that's a pretty short time scale to work with.

    Also, if you talked to people on the internet, that counts.
    Nope, no talking to people on internet either. This is back when I preferred to avoid people whenever possible and any sort of interaction made me panic and want to be left alone.

    I've no idea if it could go for more than about a week or so - but a feature of my "disabilities" (technically. I call it an advantage, in my case. ) and I'm sure a lot of others result in much less interaction overall needed.
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  20. - Top - End - #980
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castaras View Post
    Nope, no talking to people on internet either. This is back when I preferred to avoid people whenever possible and any sort of interaction made me panic and want to be left alone.

    I've no idea if it could go for more than about a week or so - but a feature of my "disabilities" (technically. I call it an advantage, in my case. ) and I'm sure a lot of others result in much less interaction overall needed.
    Really? From the time we spent together at the Bradford meet-up, I have a really hard time picturing you as the shy and introverted sort.

    As for me, I used to value my privacy quite a lot and took steps to ensure I'd be left alone. I've changed a lot over the past few years and now whenever I come back from a meet-up or from seeing my gf, I arrive back at my large empty flat and feel very lonely.

  21. - Top - End - #981
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Succubus View Post
    Really? From the time we spent together at the Bradford meet-up, I have a really hard time picturing you as the shy and introverted sort.

    As for me, I used to value my privacy quite a lot and took steps to ensure I'd be left alone. I've changed a lot over the past few years and now whenever I come back from a meet-up or from seeing my gf, I arrive back at my large empty flat and feel very lonely.
    Thanks. Thing for me is my Aspergers was mild enough but gave me enough extra logic that I get the advantages, and have enough intelligence/logicyness to be able to train myself to beat my disadvantages - helped as well to have one of the most wonderful people ever as my learning support assistant through primary school. ^.^

    And that's pretty much how I am now. I need time to cool off from people, but it doesn't take long for me to feel depressed that there's noone around.
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  22. - Top - End - #982
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castaras View Post
    Except that some of us aren't built to be social.

    *points to self* If I weren't so used to talking to people so much and hadn't trained myself to be a social human bean, then I could go for days without seeing anyone and be perfectly happy and well adjusted and as sane as I've ever been (been there, done that, tshirts, etc.).
    Quote Originally Posted by Castaras View Post
    I've no idea if it could go for more than about a week or so - but a feature of my "disabilities" (technically. I call it an advantage, in my case. ) and I'm sure a lot of others result in much less interaction overall needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Castaras View Post
    Thanks. Thing for me is my Aspergers was mild enough but gave me enough extra logic that I get the advantages, and have enough intelligence/logicyness to be able to train myself to beat my disadvantages - helped as well to have one of the most wonderful people ever as my learning support assistant through primary school. ^.^

    And that's pretty much how I am now. I need time to cool off from people, but it doesn't take long for me to feel depressed that there's noone around.
    I... think you may have actually made my point, and not contradicted it (as your first post seems to imply you were trying to).

    Just because we CAN function (for short periods, at the very least) without social interactions doesn't mean it's good for us. I'm actually in a very similar boat to you: high functioning Asperger's, and am able to gain the benefits and know what I can do to deal with the drawbacks.

    If I'm reading between the lines correctly, however, you got something I didn't: an early diagnosis. And, with that, early 'training' (so to speak) on how to deal with the disadvantages. I'm now in my mid-20s, having been dealing with a proper diagnosis (as opposed to just having oddities that I didn't understand were significantly different from most people) since I was 18. So all of my anti-social habits were pretty fully engrained, and I'm having to fight (hard) to get past those. I am making progress, albeit slowly.

    Back to the original point... I was going to say something, then I got distracted by my other monitor... umm... oh! right! Going without social interaction... At least for myself - while I enjoy being at home (I have no roommates) a lot, and I think of that as being "alone time", the majority of it is actually spent interacting with people online. Like you all. Which is awesome. I tend to be in a much better mood when I'm able to have social interactions with friends.
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  23. - Top - End - #983
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    Asked a girl from OKC if she wanted to meet. She said yes!

    Now I just have to pick a time...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sholos View Post
    Asked a girl from OKC if she wanted to meet. She said yes!

    Now I just have to pick a time...
    Congrats!

    I, meanwhile, have run out of people who I'd be interested in on OKC, at least within anything close to a reasonable distance (20-30 miles - I'd really rather avoid anything long-distance). Messaged those who a) are close, and b) are interesting, but no response from any of them. *sigh*. Back to square 1, I guess. Not really sure what that is, though...
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    It's Gone. I've had a nice long facebook message saying that "I'm not attracted to you, I love you, but I'm not willing to put the effort in to make the relationship work, I really want to be freinds with you and if you decide that you can't do that then you're being childish"

    This is after an 8 year relationship, I'm 26. This is after I moved across the country and gave up everything I had to make this work, especially while he was depressed and going through the whole trans process. Now I am depressed it seems like too much effort for him. This has been my first relationship, we were married for 4 years. I am heartbroken and I don't know what I'm going to do. I feel like I have wasted my entire adult life dedicated to someone who once they found their feet that I spent all my love, life and effort to give them, managed to get a job, so they earned more than me, and realised that I was becoming depressed and a financial burden, thinks the whole thing is too much work.

    I'm broken, I've never had to deal with this and I don't want to.

    Help, please.

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    ...wow. That's unbelievably harsh. \sorry to hear that

    *hugs. Lots of them*
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    *cuddles* Keep close to your friends. Keep yourself busy and doing things. Don't stop doing things. The hardest part will be when you have to try sleep at night - it's the only time in the day where you have to stop doing things to keep yourself busy.

    I find chocolate works as well. If you can find a death by chocolate cake somewhere, eat it all. ALL the cake. Chocolate is a life saver.

    *more hugs* You have my deepest sympathies.
    "I'm just going on motive and opportunity here and the fact that if the earth got swallowed by a black hole, I'd look suspiciously in your direction first."
    ~ Timberwolf

    "I blame Castaras. You know... In general."
    ~ KuReshtin

    "Castaras - An absolutely adorable facade that hides a truly ruthless streak."
    ~ The Succubus

  28. - Top - End - #988
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    dehro's Avatar

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    seriously? facebook? again?... I'd have slapped my little brother of 16 silly if he'd broken up with his girlfriend on facebook instead of in person (then again, I'm not sure who dumped who there).
    for the life of me I cannot understand that anybody in their right mind would think it appropriate not to do such a thing in person.

    also the "then you're being childish" bit ... tells me all I want to know really.
    methinks you're better off without.
    hard to hear, I'm sure, and I can't say it will make things easier for you or help in any way. I'm sorry.
    virtual hugs, chocolate bars and pints of lager to you
    All hail Smutmulch for crafting my avatar!
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  29. - Top - End - #989
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    Lord Loss's Avatar

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    Having some problems of my own, spoilered them.

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    I'm confused as hell right now. My first girlfriend and I just (a few days ago) broke up - we'd only been together for two months, and it wasn't much of a relationship cause we barely ever saw each other (she's a very very busy person). She did the breaking up, and I acted devastated. I was sort of sad I guess, but I was also secretly relieved, cause since a long while before (and all through the relationshp) I'd had feelings for my best female friend. Who my best friend also likes. Who is the good friend of my ex. Who's ex is a friend of mine. Who's other friend likes me (and we sort of dated, she broke it off, a few months later decided she wanted to go out out with me and I'm not interested at all).

    So I really don't know what to do right now. I've talked to my best friend and - she knows he likes her and isn't interested - and he's been insisting I go for it. So have the other two people I've talked it over with. Still I'm confused as hell. She's my best female friend, she's shown signs of being attracted to me I think, but I'm known for drawing the wrong conclusions from these things. Some tip-offs - there are a lot but I'll spare you guys a list - are things like saying ''I wish guys would just make a move'' shortly followed by ''I only develop feelings for people I'm really close to'' shortly followed by ''I can tell when people like me''. But y'know, I could really easily be jumping to conclusions.

    And then there's the final point that - yeah I have strong feelings for her, but do I want a relationship right now, I know I'd be insanely happy if I were with her but I'm just so used to heartbreak that is it even worth the effort? We're teenagers, teenage relationships aren't known for their longevity. Me and her have made plans to head to a party and hook up with random people, much to the dismay of her friends and mine.

    So now I guess what I'm saying is I am confused as hell.


    @Last_resort33

    That's terrible. *Hugs*

    Castaras mentioned sleep being the hardest part - I generally keep myself busy during the day and, once night falls, instead of giving myself the chance to feel like crap, I drink lots and lots of tea and play music and don't let myself think of anything.
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    Also, if anyone has any sort of problem at all that they feel like talking about, my PM box is open.

  30. - Top - End - #990
    Retired Mod in the Playground Retired Moderator
     
    DrowGirl

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    Ah yeah - that's another thing. Drink may seem very attractive, but it will just make you feel worse and more upset.

    A glass of whatever at most, but don't get drunk or tipsy. Alcohol being a depressent and all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Loss View Post
    Having some problems of my own, spoilered them.

    Spoiler
    Show
    I'm confused as hell right now. My first girlfriend and I just (a few days ago) broke up - we'd only been together for two months, and it wasn't much of a relationship cause we barely ever saw each other (she's a very very busy person). She did the breaking up, and I acted devastated. I was sort of sad I guess, but I was also secretly relieved, cause since a long while before (and all through the relationshp) I'd had feelings for my best female friend. Who my best friend also likes. Who is the good friend of my ex. Who's ex is a friend of mine. Who's other friend likes me (and we sort of dated, she broke it off, a few months later decided she wanted to go out out with me and I'm not interested at all).

    So I really don't know what to do right now. I've talked to my best friend and - she knows he likes her and isn't interested - and he's been insisting I go for it. So have the other two people I've talked it over with. Still I'm confused as hell. She's my best female friend, she's shown signs of being attracted to me I think, but I'm known for drawing the wrong conclusions from these things. Some tip-offs - there are a lot but I'll spare you guys a list - are things like saying ''I wish guys would just make a move'' shortly followed by ''I only develop feelings for people I'm really close to'' shortly followed by ''I can tell when people like me''. But y'know, I could really easily be jumping to conclusions.

    And then there's the final point that - yeah I have strong feelings for her, but do I want a relationship right now, I know I'd be insanely happy if I were with her but I'm just so used to heartbreak that is it even worth the effort? We're teenagers, teenage relationships aren't known for their longevity. Me and her have made plans to head to a party and hook up with random people, much to the dismay of her friends and mine.

    So now I guess what I'm saying is I am confused as hell.
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    If you're confused, then try and sort out the confusion. First things first is to sort out your own feelings - you like her. Do you like her enough to get into a relationship with her? Are you certain you want to be in a relationship at this moment in time? (Yep, you don't have to be in a relationship. Astonishing as it may sound. ) The fact that you're thinking of breakups already suggests you may not have enough confidence in it to go through with it, but you may also just be thinking logically about things (which I tend to do).

    Once your own feelings are sorted out, if you want to pursue her, talk to her. Be blunt. Blunt as a brick. So rather than "You, err, wanna do something sometime with someone?" go for "I like you. I think. Coffee/Tea/<Beverage goes here> sometime?"

    Ł0.02 done. Awaaaaay! *poof*
    Last edited by Castaras; 2012-03-18 at 09:10 AM.
    "I'm just going on motive and opportunity here and the fact that if the earth got swallowed by a black hole, I'd look suspiciously in your direction first."
    ~ Timberwolf

    "I blame Castaras. You know... In general."
    ~ KuReshtin

    "Castaras - An absolutely adorable facade that hides a truly ruthless streak."
    ~ The Succubus

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