Paladin Spells (3.PF) PEACH

[bloodtide]

The ideas for Unfettered Stride and Wings of the Eagle are good, but they should not be the same level. Why would a paladin bother with the stride spell if they can just fly.

1.Unfettered Stride. Does not have a 'paladin' or even 'good' feet to it. While the effect and idea are sound, it need to be made batter. Make it Holy Step(or Holy Stride) or Blessed Step(Blessed Stride) as it does have a sacred bonus anyway, and make it an evocation(Good) spell.

2.Wings of the Eagle should be second level. But the idea that a paladin could use an air attack spell is a good one. But a paladin should walk before they can fly:

Spoiler

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Air Stride
Transmuation
Level: Paladin 1
Components: V, DF
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: 0
Target: Self only
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

The paladin can tread on air as if walking on solid ground. Moving upward is similar to walking up a hill. The maximum upward or downward angle possible is 45 degrees, at a rate equal to the paladin's normal speed.

Should the spell duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the magic fails slowly. The subject floats downward 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds. If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely. If not, it falls the rest of the distance, taking 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet of fall. Since dispelling a spell effectively ends it, the subject also descends in this way if the air walk spell is dispelled, but not if it is negated by an antimagic field.

And having the paladin grow eagle wings just feels wrong. You want a paladin to be more of an 'avenging angel' not 'eagle man'. So make that Wings of the Celestials, and make them insubstantial holy light angel-like wings. This would be a evocation spell. Sounds better for a paladin.

Also you don't 'just' want the paladin to fly, you want the paladin to be a more combative flying 'avenging angel', so add a +20 foot sacred speed bonus and the feat:Flyby Attack.

3. Champion of the Gods looks just fine, but I'd make that an evocation spell.

4.Holy Inspiration is fine, but you could have just put ''as per Augury''. I don't like the idea of the paladin finding his own way though, and think that such divinations should be more for clerics.

5.Minor Miracle is just broken. A paladin gets a mini miracle? Any spell of 3rd level or less? Remove any effect? Way too much.

This needs to be very limited, such as to only good or lawful divine spells...maybe even only to the spells granted by the patron deity.

[NeoSeraphi]

Posting to help Bloodtide's post become noticed in the thread, since it got 503'd.

[bloodtide]

What happened to the post? Odd I could not see it....

[NeoSeraphi]

What happened to the post? Odd I could not see it....

It happens sometimes. You type a post that would go on the next page, and the site doesn't immediately create the second page. (This doesn't lose the post, it will still say the name of the most recent poster, and anyone who hits "Reply" will be able to see the new post if he scrolls down to look at that list) Normally a new post (like the one that I typed for you) will jump start it. I've never seen it happen twice in a row like that before. But both our posts are there now.

[Cieyrin]

It doesn't make sense for either of Unfettered Stride or Wings of the Eagle to be Evocations, they physically change the Paladin, making them Transmutations like they currently are. Evocations are all about manipulating energies, magic or elemental, which neither of those spells describe in the slightest.

Champion of the Gods is an odd one, as it has both an Evocation and Abjuration effect to it. Perhaps a dual school would work better, as I'm not sure what's being Transmuted here.

Minor Miracle is hardly overpowering, 4th level Pally spells are easily equivalent to 5th or 6th level spells for full casters. It's like an improvement on Anyspell that's Pally-only. It is weaker than Limited Wish, which comes online at the same level, and the full casters are throwing around 6s and 7s, so the Pally having something nice doesn't hardly mean she's gonna be toppling tables with her new found ability to cast 3rd level spells. Though, if its really worrying, I suppose I don't see anything wrong with limiting it to Divine-only spells.

[NeoSeraphi]

Champion of the Gods is an odd one, as it has both an Evocation and Abjuration effect to it. Perhaps a dual school would work better, as I'm not sure what's being Transmuted here.

The original effect (when I made it Transmutation) was simply "all attacks made when you Smite Evil ignore hardness, DR, and regeneration", so the idea was you were supercharging your weapon, therefore, transmutation.

Now it's different. I don't know if Pathfinder has Dual Schools or not, so I'll just make it abjuration.

[Cieyrin]

The original effect (when I made it Transmutation) was simply "all attacks made when you Smite Evil ignore hardness, DR, and regeneration", so the idea was you were supercharging your weapon, therefore, transmutation.

Now it's different. I don't know if Pathfinder has Dual Schools or not, so I'll just make it abjuration.

Not so far but I don't think its gonna ruin anybody's day if it is.

[NeoSeraphi]

Fair enough. Abjuration/Evocation it is.

[bloodtide]

It doesn't make sense for either of Unfettered Stride or Wings of the Eagle to be Evocations, they physically change the Paladin, making them Transmutations like they currently are. Evocations are all about manipulating energies, magic or elemental, which neither of those spells describe in the slightest.

Well, you might be falling under the vague problem. If you make a spell that 'changes' something you automatically think of it as a Transmutation spell. But ok, lets look:

1.Unfettered Stride changes the paladin how? What physical change does the paladin under go? And how does a physical change give a scared bonus? If you want the spell to be mundane and just 'give the paladin the feet of a goat', then you should make the bonus something like enhancement.

2.Wings of the Eagle just gives fake wings for show, right? The paladin 'cheat's and flys like the spell fly. The paladin is not flying around like a giant eagle.

[Cieyrin]

Well, you might be falling under the vague problem. If you make a spell that 'changes' something you automatically think of it as a Transmutation spell. But ok, lets look:

1.Unfettered Stride changes the paladin how? What physical change does the paladin under go? And how does a physical change give a scared bonus? If you want the spell to be mundane and just 'give the paladin the feet of a goat', then you should make the bonus something like enhancement.

2.Wings of the Eagle just gives fake wings for show, right? The paladin 'cheat's and flys like the spell fly. The paladin is not flying around like a giant eagle.

Compare them to existing spells. Unfettered Stride shares similarities with Expeditious Retreat and Longstrider, both Transmutations without obvious changes. Wings of the Eagle does a similar thing as any of the myriad flying spells, the majority of which are also Transmutations, since they grant the ability to fly. Transmutation isn't just about taking existing stuff and modifying, its about adding new capabilities.

[NeoSeraphi]

2.Wings of the Eagle just gives fake wings for show, right? The paladin 'cheat's and flys like the spell fly. The paladin is not flying around like a giant eagle.

...The fly spell is transmutation as well...

[bloodtide]

Compare them to existing spells. Unfettered Stride shares similarities with Expeditious Retreat and Longstrider, both Transmutations without obvious changes. Wings of the Eagle does a similar thing as any of the myriad flying spells, the majority of which are also Transmutations, since they grant the ability to fly. Transmutation isn't just about taking existing stuff and modifying, its about adding new capabilities.

That was kinda my point. You have the paladin's spells 'just like everyone else'. So your lowering the paladin to the level of the others. I think it should be the other way around, that paladin spells should be 'special' and 'higher' then normal magic.

[NeoSeraphi]

That was kinda my point. You have the paladin's spells 'just like everyone else'. So your lowering the paladin to the level of the others. I think it should be the other way around, that paladin spells should be 'special' and 'higher' then normal magic.

Why? Clerics draw their power from the same source as a paladin. Why should a paladin's spells be better?

[Maquise]

Added Warded Shield to the main list, so it wasn't buried any more.

[Cieyrin]

That was kinda my point. You have the paladin's spells 'just like everyone else'. So your lowering the paladin to the level of the others. I think it should be the other way around, that paladin spells should be 'special' and 'higher' then normal magic.

What does making them Evocations instead of Transmutations have to do with them being 'special'? They're Paladin-only right now (well, provided you forget about Archivists but Archivists are a different thing entirely), so why shouldn't that be 'special'? You're also kinda flip-flopping, as you were going on earlier about how Minor Miracle is too high for our special paladins. My point is that school is meant to describe in broad strokes what spells do and what the spells in question are doing are best described as Transmutations, since they change or grant characteristics. Evocation has nothing to do with that.

[Frosty]

A paladin's Caster Level is 1 at level 4 right? So that means Wings of the Eagle cast by a level 4 Paladin will only last one round?

[Maquise]

I believe so.

[Cieyrin]

A paladin's Caster Level is 1 at level 4 right? So that means Wings of the Eagle cast by a level 4 Paladin will only last one round?

In PF, yes. 3.5, it's half Paladin level, so it'd be CL 2.

[Mando Knight]

A paladin's Caster Level is 1 at level 4 right? So that means Wings of the Eagle cast by a level 4 Paladin will only last one round?

Which is why you take Magical Knack. Easy +2 CL, turning your low-level casting from nearly negligible to a somewhat useful resource.

[Maquise]

Added the Spellsmiter feat.

[Maquise]

It's been a while, but I have a couple more spells to add.

Celestial Steed
School Transmutation
Level Paladin 3
Casting Time 1 Standard action
Components: V, F
Range Touch
Target Bonded Mount
Duration 1 Minute/Level

You bestow upon your steed the aspect of a holy charger, causing it to grow a pair of angelic wings. It gains a Fly speed double to its base land speed (Good maneuverability), and all of its attacks count as Good for the purpose of overcoming DR.