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2019-05-21, 09:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
The dungeons protecting Serini's gate were built by dwarves. The dwarves had plans. And guess where the Order are now? Yup, the dwarven kingdom. So they can get the plans from the dwarves and go straight to the gate.
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2019-05-21, 09:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
That solves ... what problem?
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
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2019-05-21, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
Nobody just lets the plans hanging around like that.
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2019-05-21, 09:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
Maybe someone in Durkon's extended family actually worked on the dungeon and can tell them how to get through it.
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2019-05-21, 09:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-05-21, 09:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-05-21 at 09:58 AM.
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2019-05-21, 10:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
Team Evil has no clue where the Gate actually is. It's hidden from divination, and there's hundreds of doors, leaving you with no choice but to go through those hundreds of doors one by one until you finally get the right one.
If you've got the plans, then you know which door the Gate's hidden behind, and then you can keep Team Evil from finding it by painting a red X over it.Last edited by HorizonWalker; 2019-05-21 at 10:01 AM.
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2019-05-21, 10:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-05-21, 11:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
"The pair sunk their entire fortune into building the five Gates".
Them paying for the constructions of the defenses of the Gates (like Girard's pyramid) would defeat the point of the Oath. And the repartition of the Gates and their defenses happened later anyway.
The Dwarves would eb involved in putting the Stone into shape before it is enchanted would be my guess.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2019-05-26, 09:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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2019-05-26, 09:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2014
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Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
You're thinking of Dorukan's dungeon.
Serini's workers were offscreen.Yes, I am slightly egomaniac. Why didn't you ask?
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Originally Posted by Fyraltari
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2019-05-26, 09:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-05-26, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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- Scotland
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2019-05-26, 11:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-05-26, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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- Scotland
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2019-05-26, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2019-05-26, 04:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
The gate isn't really behind any of the doors - it's inside that statue of Kraagor. During the crayon-image exposition, he was shown right up close to the rift when they cast the spell to seal it -and then we see them mourning his stone image. That statue actually is Kraagor - or at least, his petrified remains. What happened to his Dwarven soul is another question.
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2019-05-26, 05:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2017
Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
Assuming that Serini used dwarven workers (which granted is a likely scenario - she wants stonework done and it is a tribute to a dwarven character), that still also misses three points:
-She'd probably want the blueprints back, and after the job the workers would have no reason to keep copies. So even if we generously assume that all dwarves involved in the construction were part of Durkon's extended family, they'd have a few vague memories instead of detailed plans. Which is nice, but not a cure-all.
-Creating that many false entrances becomes less effective as more people know which one is the right one. Serini doesn't seem the sort to kill off workers to keep them from talking, so the next best defense would be to include a fair number of false gates in the construction. Again, a simple plan can keep the intel pretty safe.
-Imagining for a moment that the order could learn the precise location of the gate and teleport right to it, what then? Opening the last rift would probably just encourage the gods to blow up the world faster. Xykon and Red have to be dealt with, otherwise there aren't any good options. And while actually dealing with them will be tricky, finding them won't be the hard part.
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2019-05-26, 05:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
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2019-05-26, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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2019-05-26, 06:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2018
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Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
My question is why do you assume "some dwarves built the gate" leads to "the dwarves who happen to be around this town have the plans easily available for the heroes"? Like, I wouldn't even assume the heroes know dwarves built any of the gates.
The issue there is that it's literally the first thing anyone will think when poised with a situation like this. From a meta-perspective, it's it is far too obvious to be an actually good twist, and from an in-universe perspective Redcloak and Xykon probably would have already checked.
Also, the landscape where the rift is doesn't fit the position of the statue at all, so it couldn't be there, anyway.I'd just like to point out that saying that something unsupported is the case unless someone else can prove that it is not is an utter failure of logic. - Kish
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2019-05-26, 08:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
Last edited by Peelee; 2019-05-26 at 08:49 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-05-26, 09:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
You really don't understand how [citaiton needed] works, do you? I asked you to present the evidence for your assertion. The links I am aware of have been posted several times and do not show any dwarves working on Kraagor's tomb.
And that Serini disrespected Kraagor's memory by having a defence system for the gate that does NOT require brute strength.
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-05-26 at 09:24 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-05-27, 01:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
I think this is the critical part, really. The Order know where Xykon and Redcloak are, because Lirian and O-Chul are spying on them. They don't need to go to the Gate, they need to go to where Team Evil is and figure out a way to defeat them before *they* happen across the gate. I'm entirely unclear on how going directly to the final Gate would help them in that aim--after all, they reached Girard's Gate before the villains did, and ended up having to destroy it, so getting there first isn't necessarily an advantage.
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2019-05-27, 02:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
The only way I could plausibly see the rift being hidden in the statue is if you have to get to the end of one of the doors to reveal that, but that doesn't prevent you just brute forcing the mechanism so it's also a bust.
I could maybe see the statue being pivotal in revealing the true path to the gate in one of the doors though, but I'm not holding my breath on that one either.
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2019-05-27, 04:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-05-27, 06:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
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English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post
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2019-05-27, 09:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-05-27, 10:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-05-27, 10:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: Serini's / Kraagor's gate - the dwarven plans
Iomedae. Are you not reading this?
No one can find the strip that indicates that Serini had a dungeon built by dwarves, because there is no such strip. There is one that shows the Dungeon of Dorukan being built by dwarves, which is probably what you're thinking of and has already been linked. If you remain convinced of the existence of something which doesn't exist but find it beneath you to make any effort to support it except with repetitive assertions, then the best response to "citation needed" is silence if you cannot muster a concession.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II