Results 1 to 30 of 33
-
2008-04-06, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
Min-maxers across the boards (here at GitP, the WotC's message board, and other forums) usually utilize many books to build their characters, and for many gamers it seems to be a norm that you're allowed to use any feat, prestige class or class variant that you can find, and some people even seem to consider variant rules such as flaws from UA to be standard in all games.
Also, some of these characters are optimized for level 20 which at least for me is highly theoretical because only one campaign I've played in went all the way from level 1 to level 20.
Therefore, I present you a slightly different optimization challenge. Or actually two of them.
If you are allowed to use only D&D 3.5 core books + any one D&D 3.5 book (such as Complete Champion or Tome of Battle)
a) What's the most powerful character build and
b) What's the most powerful melee combatant build? (edit: a martially focused character such a frenzied berserker or warblade)
A few notes:
- I think it's a general assumption that spellcasters possess greater combat prowess than non-spellcasters. If you disagree, you may post just one build - the most powerful melee combatant build.
- For purposes of this challenge, I define powerful as "capable of dealing with tough combat challenges, be it either another character of same or higher level, a monster of appropriate CR or higher, or a large number of weaker opponents."
- A character build that works only if you interpret some vaguely worded rules in certain ways is not powerful, just problematic.
- Some people confuse core for SRD which are not the same thing. Core means PHB + DMG + MM. You may choose a monster race from MM, but if it's something so wonky that most DMs would refuse to let you play that race, consider picking something less weird. If the race has LA and racial HD, include them in your figures.
- Preferrably use only books published by WotC.
- The character should be as optimized as possible on all levels 1-20, not just 20.
- You may not use flaws or create a gestalt character, or use any other variant rule that significantly changes the way characters are created. Skill tricks are ok.
Post your character build(s) in this thread or post a link. Use any format you like. Criticize and discuss the builds.Last edited by storyteller; 2008-04-06 at 02:46 PM.
-
2008-04-06, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
1) Wizard w/ Candle of Invocation & Gate
2) Druid w/ anything
Most of the broken stuff is in the core 3 books (except for Pun Pun), so this isn't really a big stipulation you're putting on us.Last edited by Dode; 2008-04-06 at 01:25 PM.
-
2008-04-06, 01:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- *stab*
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
I'm going to be lazy and say Wizard with the appropriate spells and feats as outlined in TLN's Guide and a Cleric with whatever domain gives Shapechange/PaO.
Last edited by Solo; 2008-04-06 at 01:25 PM.
-
2008-04-06, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Gender
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
I'm gonna say serpent kingdoms. Wizard 17. Get shapechange.
Before that, do what wizards do best.
-
2008-04-06, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- Vermont
- Gender
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
Hmm, also lazy and going to toss out wizard/incantrix and druid/planar shepherd. The former gets all of the goodness of the classic uber-wizard builds with a slightly reduced list of feats and spells. The latter doesn't need anything to be good as long as it picks a good plane (and even if it doesn't it will still be broken, just not that broken.)
-
2008-04-06, 01:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Location
- Piercing the heavens!
- Gender
-
2008-04-06, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
Looks like wizard is the winner no big surprise I guess. Which arcane prestige class would then be the most ridiculously broken / powerful? Also, what kind of wizard build would be the fastest way to 'victory' (using core + one other book)? As far as I can see, melee types are initially more powerful and wizards tend to be fragile even if their spells are capable of dealing loads of damage a few times per day.
Shapechange is a powerful spell but you have to be at least on level 17 to cast it... candles of invocation are quite expensive for low and mid level characters, it's not like you can afford them in the long run.
The challenge b) was poorly worded, sorry about that. With melee combatant I meant martially focused characters with little or no spellcasting ability. The kind of characters that can slaughter a legion even in an antimagic field.
And even if druids and clerics are allowed for challenge b), I think you could easily build a character with no spellcasting ability that could easily outclass most clerics and druids in melee on, say, level 10 even if the cleric or druid has all buffs up. Who would be the most powerful melee combatant on level 5? Level 10? Level 15?
-
2008-04-06, 04:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- England
- Gender
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
Aah c'mon, a properly cheestastic planar shepherd could wipe the floor with a SC wizard. Even though you miss out on the the MM2/3 goodness.
Remember the woard can't get celerity without giving up the rest of SC, and candles of invocation and other itemcheese cancel eash other out.Last edited by tarbrush; 2008-04-06 at 04:11 PM.
Don’t date the sane ones, they’ll only make you crazy. Date the really insane ones but never let them know where you live or work.
-
2008-04-06, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Santa Monica, CA, US
- Gender
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
SC = Spell Compendium? I prefer the 'SpC' shortening, personally.
Aside, Core + Serpent Kingdoms wizard -is- superior (as has been mentioned), even to the Planar Shepherd.
Y'know, pun-pun loop.
--
For Arcane Prestige Class brokeness...
Incantatrix with high pumped spellcraft would probably be the best bet.Last edited by Reinboom; 2008-04-06 at 04:30 PM.
Avatar by Alarra
-
2008-04-06, 05:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- England
- Gender
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
You can't do Pun Pun with only core and Savage species though can you? Most of the incarnations need Divine minion (a faerun book) or psionics or some other non core stuff.
I could be wrong of course, he's changed a few times :)
EDIT: Blech. I mean serpent kingdoms. And if divine minion is in serpent kingdom, whoever wrote it deserves to be shot.Last edited by tarbrush; 2008-04-06 at 05:28 PM.
Don’t date the sane ones, they’ll only make you crazy. Date the really insane ones but never let them know where you live or work.
-
2008-04-06, 05:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Texas...for now
- Gender
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
With just Core+Serpent Kingdoms, you can't be Pun-Pun until level 17, when you pick up Shapechange. Then you just Shapechange into a Sarrukh like normal.
Last edited by Sstoopidtallkid; 2008-04-06 at 05:29 PM.
[/sarcasm]
FAQ is not RAW!Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.
-
2008-04-06, 06:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
If Pun-Pun isn't feasible, doesn't the Omniscificer still work with Core + whatever book the Artificer is in?
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
-
2008-04-06, 06:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
The Omniscificer requires the infinite pain loop, which requires four non-core books. Planar Shepherd's powers are based off of whichever planes he is allowed to choose, and the plane descriptions are in another book, which means it uses two non-core books. I can't think of any non-obvious answers.
v@ Opps, I meant Eberron planes. I'm not sure if there are any planes with flowing time or solars in the DMG.Last edited by UglyPanda; 2008-04-06 at 06:59 PM.
Avatar by Serpentine
If, at any point, I write something that appears humorous, just chalk it up to your twisted imagination.Spoiler
Winnie the Pooh by Sneak.
Fishing by Dr. Bath.
-
2008-04-06, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Santa Monica, CA, US
- Gender
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
Basic Plane Descriptions are actually in the DMG.
@^
None core, however, there is the Fire Plane still (Efreets, Infinite Wishing).
HOWEVER, without including The Eberron Campaign Setting (required for Greensinger Initiate Feat), you can only take the Nightbringer's Initiate that is also in Faiths, which is specifically labeled 'as DM's option'.Last edited by Reinboom; 2008-04-06 at 07:12 PM.
Avatar by Alarra
-
2008-04-06, 07:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Oh gods i wish i knew
- Gender
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
I wanted to say pun pun, damn ninjas
from
EE
-
2008-04-06, 07:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- Finland
- Gender
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
You can afford a scroll of Shapechange far earlier (it's only 3825, so you can afford it on level 5). Also, Candle of Invocation, which gets any loop going, is only 8400, which you can afford by level 8. So you can 'win' D&D on level 5 with a Wizard or a Cleric with appropriate domains with Core+Serpent Kingdoms.
Last edited by Eldariel; 2008-04-06 at 07:15 PM.
-
2008-04-06, 11:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Texas...for now
- Gender
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
[/sarcasm]
FAQ is not RAW!Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.
-
2008-04-07, 12:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
Caster
Core + PHII Wizard with Abrupt Jaunt and Celerity and whatnot.
Melee
Core + ToB Crusader with Improved Trip and Thicket of Blades.
Shenanigans
Core + Faiths of Eberron Druid / Planar Shepherd into positive energy plane.
If you raised it to +2 books I could have a field day with this. It's pretty hard to do it with just one extra though. +2 book suggestions, for reference...
Caster
Core + MMIII + Serpent Kingdoms Druid with Fleshraker and Venomfire
Melee
Core + PHII + XPH Fighter with Stand Still and Overwhelming Assault
Shenanigans
Core + PHII + ToB Ruby Knight Vindicator with lots of Extra Turning, a few ranks in Use Magic Device, and an infinite-use staff of Celerity.Last edited by Squash Monster; 2008-04-07 at 12:26 AM.
-
2008-04-07, 12:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
My entry for melee: Cleric with Libris Mortis for Nightsticks.
I believe DMM is Core, otherwise I'm wrong...
-
2008-04-07, 01:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Texas...for now
- Gender
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
Melee: Core Druid with the MiC
Spellcasting: SpC Wizard. (I usually prefer the Sorcerer, as it is easier to play, but the various ways of increasing your spell list would block the SpC)
Shenanigans: Pun-Pun.[/sarcasm]
FAQ is not RAW!Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.
-
2008-04-07, 01:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- Vermont
- Gender
-
2008-04-07, 03:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Austin, TX
- Gender
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
DMM cheese requires 3 books to be truly monstrous, C. Divine (DMM), C. Arcane (Persistent Spell), and Libris Mortis (Nightsticks).
Cleric plus Complete Divine can still be stupid powerful though - if you go into both Contemplative and one of the other PrC's from that book that grants bonus domains you can end up with 5 domains.
Overall though, Spell Compendium is best for any caster (remember it has pretty much all of the domains in the back for clerics), and ToB is probably best for any melee (as much as I hate to admit it, many people have heard my opinions on that $^%*/@ book).
Edit: I also have to submit a Diplomancer build as one of the most powerful combo's, also using Complete Divine. IIRC, the only non-core thing you really need is the Fast-talk class feature from the Evangelist.
Edit again: Complete Warrior is probably a close 2nd to ToB for melee, since it has the Frenzied Berserker and the Shock Trooper and Combat Brute feats. Even without Complete Champion for the Barbarian pounce, this can still dish out a lot of damage.
Also, a question - since the EPH is now part of the SrD, do you include it in "Core?" Because if so, the original King of Smack build would be completely legal (using Psionic Lion's Charge in place of CChamp Barb Pounce) and would probably rule the melee category.Last edited by Grynning; 2008-04-07 at 03:56 AM.
My friend and I have a blog, we write D&D stuff there: http://forgotmydice.com/
Comedian avatar by The_Stoney_One
A Guide to Commonly Misunderstood 5th Edition Rules
-
2008-04-07, 04:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- Dat Shoggoth
-
2008-04-07, 08:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
- Gender
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
Monk! It can cream a larger amount of lower CR guys and can just wait out any higher levels challengers by rolling more natural 20's than the baddie. They get more attacks per round. If he went against the caster the caster will only get 1 round of action before getting his face grappled and pummeled.
I would include Magic Item Compendium to get access to all the gloves and handwraps you could ever want.
Let the ridicule commence!Kirby-on-the-Dragoon-avatar by Oregano, thanks bro!
Quotes:
Spoiler
Originally Posted by Roland St. Jude
-
2008-04-07, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
That's a good choice too. Depends on how you think the immunity to negative traits of your plane effect works. If you're immune to Death By Awesome but not to gaining HP from being in a positive-dominant area, the positive energy plane is a very scary choice. If that's not true... then yeah, fire.
-
2010-04-03, 09:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
Monk! It can cream a larger amount of lower CR guys and can just wait out any higher levels challengers by rolling more natural 20's than the baddie. They get more attacks per round. If he went against the caster the caster will only get 1 round of action before getting his face grappled and pummeled.
Grappling a caster? Sounds great except that there are plenty of spells that ignore SR and Freedom of Movement makes one immune to grappling.
OTOH unless you have some way of obtaining freedom of movement a grappler-oriented class like barb/reaping mauler would pulverize a vanilla monk.
-
2010-04-03, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
It was a forgone conclusion right from the very beginning...
-
2010-04-03, 09:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
-
2010-04-03, 09:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
-
2010-04-03, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
Re: Challenge: The most powerful D&D 3.5 character with core + any one book?
I pick Epic Level Handbook.
I then play a normal Wizard until I buy a Candle of Invocation.
At this point, I Gate an Efferiti, who I have wish for: 1) a Staff of Wishes, 2) A +NI CL item. 3) A +NI item to UMD.
Use staff to Wish up more +NI items, to Int, to Str, to Con, to saves, to AC, more staffs of wishes, more staffs of other non wish spells. Ect.
Best melee class in the game? Same thing. When you have a Str score of over 2 billion, it really doesn't matter what else you have.