"Useless" character concepts

[Hyde]

Could give him the Magic Initiative feat and make him a Tome Warlock to boost his cantrips by 5 with that. Plus he could ask the DM to convert all his spell slots into cantrips.

Tome Warlock has been noted. If you had a permissive DM that would let you take magic initiate multiple times, you could go variant human instead and pick up a net +9 cantrips, leaving us three short.

[SpamCreateWater]

Current character is a multiclass Wizard / Sorcerer / Cleric. Aiming for 4 levels of each and then swapping out to something else.

Still going strong at level 7. The other PCs have noticed nothing. Amusingly, I believe one or two suspect me of shenanigans - but not for being too weak This is in a party with single classed a Cleric and Sorcerer.


Edit: Backstory.
I used every element of my background and starting gear (Cleric) to create a story. Character is a terrible conman (as in, bad at his job) but had a good friend that helped him out. Was telling porkies in a bar, trying to convince some people he was a High Priest of some obscure religion (that didn't exist) when a Noble came up and asked to hear more. One thing led to another - character panics in social situations sometimes - and he found himself as a spiritual and financial advisor to this noble. He was good with money, though, so that kept the questions away.
Friend got annoyed, framed him for murder of a Wizard. My guy panics as he's found over the body of said Wizard with staff and book in hand. He runs. Eventually, after a tonne of mishaps, finds himself hired for his accounting ability with a group of misfits.

[Knaight]

The Scholar-Monk
The concept here is of a monk, the sort who's a scribe and scholar at a religious monastery. This particular monk is a scribe and scholar of magic, as well as being effectively a sort of priest due to the religious ties; all in all a fairly grounded, normal character.

Then you just take the single most intuitive approach if you don't know the game for their mechanics. Solid wisdom, solid intelligence (they're a monk and a scholar after all), pretty bad physical stats including constitution (they're a scribe, not a field worker), and you alternate levels between Cleric and Wizard. At level 1 you're a level 1 cleric with bad stats for a cleric. At level 2, you're a Cleric 1/Wizard 1, which is where that multiclass is at its strongest. From level 3 onwards you are always at least one spell level behind, with a gap that just keeps growing. At level 17, where a single class character would have level 9 spells, you're rocking Cleric 9/Wizard 8, having just managed 5th level spells.

Magic is powerful enough for this to still not be completely useless, but it falls way behind the power curve.

[FabulousFizban]

squeeb sounds rad. i would love to RP squeeb

[Theodoxus]

Tiny Jim, the halfling barbarian!

Tiny Jim was the runt of the halfling litter. He never got any respect, and that made him mad and smashy. But he wasn't gonna be like the rest of his bigger, stronger littermates, oh no, he'll show them! Tiny Jim grabbed a maul from a local dwarven construction crew, and walked around the campsite quite proud of himself.

He named his maul "Smashy McSmashyface" and proceeded to miss all the things.

By the time Tiny Jim got to second level barbarian, he got quite good at taking dirt naps. He learned if he simply recklessly attacked, Smashy could actually hit quite often! But... he couldn't nimbly dodge out of the way of incoming attacks anymore... But his best friend Thorngold Aldercheese, the life cleric of Yondalla, always made sure Tiny Jim woke from his dirt nap, just in time to kill steal from Teribad Justicefist, the ignoble paladin of Ilmater who punched people to unconsciousness.

[krugaan]

The Scholar-Monk
The concept here is of a monk, the sort who's a scribe and scholar at a religious monastery. This particular monk is a scribe and scholar of magic, as well as being effectively a sort of priest due to the religious ties; all in all a fairly grounded, normal character.

Then you just take the single most intuitive approach if you don't know the game for their mechanics. Solid wisdom, solid intelligence (they're a monk and a scholar after all), pretty bad physical stats including constitution (they're a scribe, not a field worker), and you alternate levels between Cleric and Wizard. At level 1 you're a level 1 cleric with bad stats for a cleric. At level 2, you're a Cleric 1/Wizard 1, which is where that multiclass is at its strongest. From level 3 onwards you are always at least one spell level behind, with a gap that just keeps growing. At level 17, where a single class character would have level 9 spells, you're rocking Cleric 9/Wizard 8, having just managed 5th level spells.

Magic is powerful enough for this to still not be completely useless, but it falls way behind the power curve.

I'm not saying you're a nerd, but there's something .. thematically pure about a nerd joining a DnD campaign and making an accountant / non combat character, lol.

It's like if someone walked into a telephone booth and came out as Clark Kent instead of Superman.

[krugaan]

He named his maul "Smashy McSmashyface" and proceeded to miss all the things.

Obviously, he's aiming at the wrong target. He's a Halfling! He should have named his maul "Joe McToeFoe" or "Ham Matuthanee".

"An arrow to the knee? You got off *lucky*."

[opaopajr]

It was probably me who said it. And I stand by it. It takes a lot of effort to be worthless in 5e. One of my first posts here was taking a DEX 6 WIS 18 character and making a Rogue.

That sais, it's theoretically possible to do so if you allow random rolling and get a perfect spread of 1s, thus 3 in every stat. But we're looking at nadir level ineptitude. This game would be far more challenging with Point Buy as a limiter.

But let me play an alternate game: trying to make viable a perfect straight 3s. Here, I'll make it harder and only work off Basic 5e.

Wimple the Wimpy Nun
Lv 1 Human Life Cleric Acolyte
PB: 2. HD: 1d8. HP: 5.
AC: 18. Spd: 30 (20 in armor)

STR 4, DEX 4, CON 4, INT 4, WIS 4, CHA 4

Skill: History -1, Insight -1, Persuasion -1, Religion -1.
Tools: --
Language: Common +3 extra

Cantrips: 3. Sp Atk: -1. Sp DC: 7.
Sp Slots: 2/ . Sp Prep: 1. Focus: Yes. Rituals: Yes.

Cantrips: Guidance, Light, Resistance (gotta run back to her if you wanna another Resistance)
Prep Spells: (Domain - Bless, Cure Wounds) either Detect Magic (during exploration, to work off rituals,) or Healing Word.

Bkrd Feature: Shelter from the Faithful.

Armor:
Chain Mail - AC 16 (str 13 or -10 Speed)
Shield - AC +2

Weapon:
Mace - atk -1, dmg 1d6 -3
Lt Xbow - atk -1, dmg 1d8 -3

Basically becomes a font for support, often using Bless, Guidance, Resistance, Healing Word, or Detect Magic. She has AC 18, because 20 Speed doesn't hurt her much as she's not going into the forefront of battle. And after casting any Concentration spells she should be Dodging and seeking Cover for another +2 or +5 AC (and DEX save). Oh, and life domain starts by adding +3 to each her heal spells, immediately wiping out the stat penalty.

It's an actual healbot (and linguist! and bless fountain!) in the shape of a wimpy nun. That's nadir Basic 5e Cleric. And yet AC 18, AC 20 or 23 with cover, and should be dodging to induce disadvantage on attacks. I've seen much worse in other RPGs.

[krugaan]

It was probably me who said it. And I stand by it. It takes a lot of effort to be worthless in 5e. One of my first posts here was taking a DEX 6 WIS 18 character and making a Rogue.

That sais, it's theoretically possible to do so if you allow random rolling and get a perfect spread of 1s, thus 3 in every stat. But we're looking at nadir level ineptitude. This game would be far more challenging with Point Buy as a limiter.

But let me play an alternate game: trying to make viable a perfect straight 3s. Here, I'll make it harder and only work off Basic 5e.

Wimple the Wimpy Nun
Lv 1 Human Life Cleric Acolyte
PB: 2. HD: 1d8. HP: 5.
AC: 18. Spd: 30 (20 in armor)

STR 4, DEX 4, CON 4, INT 4, WIS 4, CHA 4

Skill: History -1, Insight -1, Persuasion -1, Religion -1.
Tools: --
Language: Common +3 extra

Cantrips: 3. Sp Atk: -1. Sp DC: 7.
Sp Slots: 2/ . Sp Prep: 1. Focus: Yes. Rituals: Yes.

Cantrips: Guidance, Light, Resistance (gotta run back to her if you wanna another Resistance)
Prep Spells: (Domain - Bless, Cure Wounds) either Detect Magic (during exploration, to work off rituals,) or Healing Word.

Bkrd Feature: Shelter from the Faithful.

Armor:
Chain Mail - AC 16 (str 13 or -10 Speed)
Shield - AC +2

Weapon:
Mace - atk -1, dmg 1d6 -3
Lt Xbow - atk -1, dmg 1d8 -3

Basically becomes a font for support, often using Bless, Guidance, Resistance, Healing Word, or Detect Magic. She has AC 18, because 20 Speed doesn't hurt her much as she's not going into the forefront of battle. And after casting any Concentration spells she should be Dodging and seeking Cover for another +2 or +5 AC (and DEX save). Oh, and life domain starts by adding +3 to each her heal spells, immediately wiping out the stat penalty.

It's an actual healbot (and linguist! and bless fountain!) in the shape of a wimpy nun. That's nadir Basic 5e Cleric. And yet AC 18, AC 20 or 23 with cover, and should be dodging to induce disadvantage on attacks. I've seen much worse in other RPGs.

Its essentially the same as a Treatmonks mage guide, except for buffs.

Avoid anything with saves, attack rolls, or modifiers.

I'm wondering if moon druid would be even better for an extremely low stat roll.

[opaopajr]

Rogue can easily do the same due to Expertise.

If you're really good, you trade up for Background Languages, being a translator liaison, and then be an info broker with Thieves' Cant to the thieves guilds. All you need is Expertise Persuasion and Deception, (you assume Perception is not needed when you are being paid as an interpreter).

What is a challenge is Basic 5e Nadir Fighter.

[opaopajr]

Here's an attempt at "viable" Basic 5e Nadir Fighter.

Lance Driver, the Cheapest Transporter
Lv 1 Human Champion Fighter Folk Hero
PB: 2. HD: 1d10. HP: 7.
Spd: 30. AC: 18.

STR 4, DEX 4, CON 4, INT 4, WIS 4, CHA 4

Skills: Animal Handling -1, Insight -1, Perception -1, Survival -1.
Tools: Artisan Tools, Vehicles (Land)
Language: Common +1 Extra

Fighting Style: Protection
Second Wind: 1d10 +Fighter lvl

Bkrd: Rustic Hospitality

Armor:
Chain Mail - AC 16 (str 13 or -10 spd)
Shield - AC +2

Weapon:
Lance - atk -1, dmg 1d12-3
Lt. Xbow - atk -1, dmg 1d8-3

Bio: Famous for being the cheapest way to get in and out of hostile territory. Rides a cart or carriage, which allows him to Protect his charge with his shield while in danger. Rustic Hospitality can sometimes help him briefly hide his charge before setting off out of danger.

Skill focus so that you can ASI wisdom if you so desire, (or go for something else as you wish). Armor Speed penalty is irrelevant while riding. AC is good, Dodge is a good action while driving. Can easily run caltrops or flaming oil as needed during chases. Protection is for clients. Knows the common folk for some help. Not good, but good enough, and thus a cheap driver to hire.

[toapat]

At level 17, where a single class character would have level 9 spells, you're rocking Cleric 9/Wizard 8, having just managed 5th level spells.

Magic is powerful enough for this to still not be completely useless, but it falls way behind the power curve.

unless your DM is a vile monster and sandbagging you with less broken but less fair multiclass rules, you still get cleric lvl9 access at total lvl 17 because of how the "preparing spells" clause is laughably non-functional. Sure you dont get any 9th level wizard spells, but youre still effectively a full power cleric with only have your spells prepared from cleric

[Longman]

Chip Shoulder, Halfling duelist.

I've gone for a halfling fighter whose religion is all about the coming of a halfling champion that will stand up to the other races and beat them in individual combat using huge weapons. He's studied hard and worked on his calm mind and his public speaking at the expense of his physical attributes. It's all about the cool sililoquy with this guy.

Made using OrcPub.
Halfling Lightfoot.
Acolyte
Str 12
Dex 10
Con 10
Int 13
Wis 15
Cha 15

Fighter (Duelist). Carries several heavy two-handed weapons and a longbow, because he wants to be beat larger races using over sized weaponry, and a longbow. Can't use his duelist skills due to weapon choice and gets disadvantage due to size.

Skills - Athletics, History, Insight and Religion

AC 11 (leather).

[opaopajr]

unless your DM is a vile monster and sandbagging you with less broken but less fair multiclass rules, you still get cleric lvl9 access at total lvl 17 because of how the "preparing spells" clause is laughably non-functional. Sure you dont get any 9th level wizard spells, but youre still effectively a full power cleric with only have your spells prepared from cleric

I do not see how the Multiclassing Rules on 'Spells Known or Prepared' are superceded by the laughingly non-functional "prepared spells" clause.

Multiclassing
Spells Known and Prepared

You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class.

You determine slots after. The Ranger 4/Wizard 3 example reinforces this in both the Multiclassing 'Spells Known and Prepared' section and in the Multiclassing 'Spell Slots' section. Deliberately reading the order backwards, and in isolation of the given example, seem wrong. A GM abiding by the PHB restriction does not seem monstrous but working as intended and sensible.

[mgshamster]

Regarding the spell slot and prepared spells discussion, I'm thoroughly confused about any of the points made here.

As far as I can tell, that Cleric 9/Wizard 8 character still has 9th level spell slots, they just only have access to 5th levels spells. They can still use their spell slots to upcast any spells they do have - which is quite a few. I don't see that as an unviable character. May not be the top dog in the fight, but it's certainly playable and will still be useful to a party.

So far, the only real thing I see as unviable is the halfling fighter who took dueling and uses heavy weapons. That's a character that deliberately took options that don't interact together.

[opaopajr]

I agree with you, the Cleric can prepare up to 5th lvl spells, and can upcast them to the 9th lvl slot.

[opaopajr]

Disadvantage is roughly -4. And given Fighters are proficient in all armor, shields, simple and martial weapons, it still gets Proficiency Bonus. Doing a Wizard with delusions of being a Polearm Fighter would be worse.

The worst would be a Halfling (or other Small race) Wizard in Padded armor, using heavy two-handed weapons, and heavy negative Ability mods. The lack of armor proficiency gives disadvantage on STR or DEX Attacks, Saves, and Ability checks, can't cast spells. Padded gives lowest AC and Stealth disadvantage. Lack of weapon prof. just denies PB (+2) to hit. Heavy gives disadv to hit. Negative ability mods do the rest.

Wizard that can't cast spells, can't stealth w/o disadv., can't STR or DEX attack, save or ability check w/o disadv, doesn't get PB bonus with weapon, has disadv. from heavy to hit, and negative mods to ruin whatever else. Then you'd have to avoid Skills which Ability could benefit from racial bonuses, so they could only have -2 on 4 skills and -4 on everything else.

It takes effort, doesn' it?

[krugaan]

Disadvantage is roughly -4. And given Fighters are proficient in all armor, shields, simple and martial weapons, it still gets Proficiency Bonus. Doing a Wizard with delusions of being a Polearm Fighter would be worse.

The worst would be a Halfling (or other Small race) Wizard in Padded armor, using heavy two-handed weapons, and heavy negative Ability mods. The lack of armor proficiency gives disadvantage on STR or DEX Attacks, Saves, and Ability checks, can't cast spells. Padded gives lowest AC and Stealth disadvantage. Lack of weapon prof. just denies PB (+2) to hit. Heavy gives disadv to hit. Negative ability mods do the rest.

Wizard that can't cast spells, can't stealth w/o disadv., can't STR or DEX attack, save or ability check w/o disadv, doesn't get PB bonus with weapon, has disadv. from heavy to hit, and negative mods to ruin whatever else. Then you'd have to avoid Skills which Ability could benefit from racial bonuses, so they could only have -2 on 4 skills and -4 on everything else.

It takes effort, doesn' it?

Lol, but that's not plausible in the slightest. Unless...

/looksexpectantly

Is the wizard a diviner? Then we can lop off his arms and legs...

edit: that's /looks expectantly, not ... you know. the other thing.

[opaopajr]

Tragically the best you can do is Stout Halfling, because CON has no skills, however DEX has 3. Thus you are destroyed by having only -3 on the three DEX skills. Ruined I say, ruined!

[toapat]

Regarding the spell slot and prepared spells discussion, I'm thoroughly confused about any of the points made here.

As far as I can tell, that Cleric 9/Wizard 8 character still has 9th level spell slots, they just only have access to 5th levels spells. They can still use their spell slots to upcast any spells they do have - which is quite a few. I don't see that as an unviable character. May not be the top dog in the fight, but it's certainly playable and will still be useful to a party.

1: Clerics, paladins, and Druids know all class spells of all levels at the level they acquire spell casting.

2: the problem with the multiclassing rules is that they do not actually enforce their own sequential application/ because of how each Spells Prepared caster is actually worded in their function of preparing spells, the multiclass Spell Slots rule actually applies despite the Multiclass spells known and Prepared description because what you can prepare is based on what is your highest highest spell slots, which are not determined by your class level.

The rule says this:

You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class. As 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells, two of which (the two you gained when you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-level spells.

it should say this

You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class of which no other classes contribute their caster level to. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class. As 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells, two of which (the two you gained when you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-level spells.

[krugaan]

1: Clerics, paladins, and Druids know all class spells of all levels at the level they acquire spell casting.

2: the problem with the multiclassing rules is that they do not actually enforce their own sequential application/ because of how each Spells Prepared caster is actually worded in their function of preparing spells, the multiclass Spell Slots rule actually applies despite the Multiclass spells known and Prepared description because what you can prepare is based on what is your highest highest spell slots, which are not determined by your class level.

I don't see the disconnect here:

I'm a cleric 9 / druid 9:

By the RAW, I prepare spells as if i was a single class caster. In PHB:

"You prepare the list of cleric spells that are available blah blah ... The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots."

9th level cleric doesn't have 9th level slots, ergo i cannot prepare any 9th level spells.

[GreyBlack]

Goddamnit, I should have thought of that.

But really, Bonkers is barbarian / monk / fighter.

ZING.

How about this: the undecided major.

Keeps dipping in classes before finally settling on something.

I'm thinking son of a rich noble, gets pushed into the clergy (cleric) or something, but rebels and becomes a thug or thief for awhile (rogue). After months of stealing and brawling, get bailed out and joins a monastery (monk). The abbot (?) teaches him how to kung fu fight, but then due to him being crazy and wanting to blow up the world, the son flees and goes back home, where he figures out that he wants to fight bad guys instead of be an indecisive loser (paladin).

Soo.... Danny Rand from Iron Fist?

[krugaan]

Soo.... Danny Rand from Iron Fist?

Or, you know. Batman. It's pretty funny that the backstories are basically the same, but Batman is awesome and Iron Fist was terrible.

[SpamCreateWater]

I don't see the disconnect here:

I'm a cleric 9 / druid 9:

By the RAW, I prepare spells as if i was a single class caster. In PHB:

"You prepare the list of cleric spells that are available blah blah ... The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots."

9th level cleric doesn't have 9th level slots, ergo i cannot prepare any 9th level spells.

I think the disconnect comes in with that last part you quoted. Because you have the spells slots of an 18th level caster from the multiclass table. 18th level gives you a 9th level spell slot.

[krugaan]

I think the disconnect comes in with that last part you quoted. Because you have the spells slots of an 18th level caster from the multiclass table. 18th level gives you a 9th level spell slot.

Right, but you prepare each class individually as if they were seperate single classes, no?

[Mjolnirbear]

Nebb Neblinson, The Lord of Cantrips.

Young Nebb Neblinson was a bright lad, interested in everything. He was particularly fascinated by magic. And so it was that Neblin sought to study the magical arts under a wizard of repute.

However, as he studied, Nebb became increasingly fascinated with cantrips. "Why," he pondered to himself, "Is it that cantrips, and only cantrips, do not tax a spellcaster's resources? Why can they be invoked over and over again? Surely, if we could unlock that secret, we could figure out how to apply it to spells of greater power!"

And so, Nebb devoted himself exclusively to the study of cantrips. He has not yet unlocked the essential secrets he seeks, but he sure does know a heck of a lot of cantrips at this point.

Forest Gnome Wizard (Illusionist) 4/Arcana Cleric 4/Bard 4/Druid 4/Celestial Warlock 3 (Pact of the Tome)/Sorcerer 1

This build is, of course, designed to maximize cantrips known. By the time he reaches the peak of his power at level 20, Nebb knows:

1. Minor Illusion
2. 3 Bard cantrips
3. 4 Cleric cantrips
4. 2 Wizard cantrips (known as cleric cantrips)
5. 3 Druid cantrips
6. 4 Sorcerer cantrips
7. 2 Warlock cantrips
8. Light and Sacred Flame (as Warlock cantrips)
9. 3 cantrips from any class's spell list
10. 5 Wizard cantrips (4 base plus one from Master Illusionist)

...for a grand total of 29 cantrips known, not including any gained from feats! Of course, he also has the spell slots of a 17th level caster with which to power his myriad of first and second level spells, but who cares? Cantrips are where the REAL power is, baby.

I would play this so hard. But I don't think it's useless. Or rather, it can easily be not useless by choosing Agonising Blast and Hexing. Everything else is utility and rituals. Upcast the Dickens out of your Burning Hands spells and all those 'useless' high-level slots can be burned to Quicken more EBs.

Edit: didn't see you only had one level of sorcerer. I'd personally change that to at least three just for sorcery points.

[Beechgnome]

You know those annoyingly efficient people who get everything done Before they go to bed so they get a good night sleep and aren't rushing in the morning?

I present Prudent Proudfoot, a halfling 1st level Wizard, 7th level Divine Soul Sorcerer.

St 10
Dx 14
Cn 14
In 13
Ws 12
Ch 16

Wizard spells Snare, Alarm
Sorcerer spells Mage armor, Bless, Feather Fall, Darkvision, Aid, Suggestion, Meld into Stone, Death Ward, Guardian of Faith

Metamagic Extended Spell, Subtle spell

Some spellcasters like to get a good night's sleep and then, refreshed and recharged, go out and Actually Cast Spells in combat and while adventuring. Prudent thinks these mages are crazy.

A true master does all of his prep work Before going to bed.

He casts Mage armor, Darkvision, Aid and Death Ward all as extended spells before sleeping. (Duration 16 hours, no concentration).

He casts Guardian of Faith, Alarm and Snare all as Extended spells to guard the camp for 16 hours. Who needs a night watch?

Just to make sure, he converts one of his third level slots into 3 more sorcery points then casts two more snares and another alarm, extending them all.

He then casts extended Meld into Stone using his last slot and SP, and sleeps inside a rock.

When he wakes, he has AC 15, 5 extra hp, darkvision and Death Ward with him for another 8 hours of adventuring, and a camp few would want to investigate.

A good NPC to have if the party needs a safe night, But useless, oh so useless given all the investment he put into it.

Now if only he could take 5 levels of Ranger to get Cordon of Arrows...

[Joe dirt]

A character that is a Siamese twin... one twin wants to be a paladin of lawful good nature. the other wants to be an evil assassin or someone with multiple personality disorder... but has the same problem of being completely opposed to the others agenda.... could also work with a character that is possessed

[mgshamster]

I would play this so hard. But I don't think it's useless. Or rather, it can easily be not useless by choosing Agonising Blast and Hexing. Everything else is utility and rituals. Upcast the Dickens out of your Burning Hands spells and all those 'useless' high-level slots can be burned to Quicken more EBs.

Edit: didn't see you only had one level of sorcerer. I'd personally change that to at least three just for sorcery points.

Fun thing about the cantrip master is that they're truly a master of magic. They can cast a wide variety of spells all day long and never run out! They even have some potent damage because cantrips scale with level not class, and they have a variety of damage types to tailor it to the enemy.

[Knaight]

I'm not saying you're a nerd, but there's something .. thematically pure about a nerd joining a DnD campaign and making an accountant / non combat character, lol.

I mean, the inspiration there is literally the general phenomena of Irish monasticism in the 700's, adapted for a fantasy setting. I'm willing to cop to it being nerdy even by D&D standards.