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2011-09-25, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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- My skills exceed yours!
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Re: General 3.5 Core balance fix (3.5 Core, PEACH)
Alright, I respect that then. I suggest porting the Fighter specific feats from non-Core, such as Weapon Supremacy and Melee/Ranged Weapon Mastery (PHB II), to your new fighter feats. Just because they give the fighter some nice bonuses to hit and damage.
Most creatures with blindsight tend to ignore AC with their most powerful attacks as well; when fighting an Yrthak, things are of course going to be different than usual.
Tremorsense is more likely to be an issue, but note that it gives only the location (like blindsense does); it does not remove concealment. So the successful hide check will still give total concealment, for a 50% miss chance (25% if the enemy has Blind-Fight), which is pretty decent.
It'll help the fighter (who gets a lot more than 7) and the paladin (who under the new rules gets more), and maybe a few that can use it particularly well (note that it's not going to be static bonuses, but rather something more along the lines of Combat Expertise).
Or he can ditch Two-Weapon Fighting, stay away from the enemy, and use ranged attacks. Or if he prefers he can go for Spring Attack so that he never ends his turn next to the enemy (this of course works a lot better with an ally who focuses on combat control). Naturally, this means that he won't be as useful in combat as a fighter or barbarian, but he's far more effective outside of combat (while rogues can't easily be strongly "optimized" in the normal sense, an optimally-played rogue is second only to an optimally-played bard in effectiveness.)
Or he can talk the party wizard into giving him Improved Invisibility, which gives him not only easy sneak-attacks and a much-needed boost to hit, but also 50% miss chance.
That's what Mobility and Spring Attack are for. And of course he can go after enemies that can't take effective attacks of opportunity, such as archers and casters.
True; the monk is somewhat of a niche class.
You shouldn't be facing something with +30 to hit (barring enemies with PC classes) until level 17 or 18 at the earliest, and by that point there's something seriously wrong if you can't push your AC well above 23.
That was the old version, which was based on the idea of changing bonuses. The new version is based more on the idea of changing the rules.
Probably, but not as badly as you imply. After all, the Tarrasque's attack, while powerful, is nothing that can't be survived for some time by a 20th level party with a few good buffs and some decent tactics, and Swallow Whole might look impressive but requires Improved Grab, which is countered by a level 4 spell.
As I said; the limits are technically the same, they just affect the PCs more. (Of course, so do the upcoming boosts.)
And yet the dragon still waited until V separated him/herself from the party.
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2011-09-25, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: General 3.5 Core balance fix (3.5 Core, PEACH)
I can't, as I don't have PHB II, and I don't really want to include stuff from there. I might use Pathfinder for some second-tier combat maneuver feats if I can't think of anything better for the non-numeric bonus, though.
And I'm not planning to give the fighter any flat bonuses to to-hit and damage; that's really more the barbarian's job. What the fighter's getting is going to be more like "make attacks as touch attacks", "make attacks vs. flatfooted", "force the enemy to use his DEX for to-hit", "sacrifice AC for DR", "make several times as many attacks", and so on; of course, each of those is at the top of a chain and comes with substantial trade-offs that makes it useful only about 30 to 40 percent of the time, but that's why he's got 21 feats (by level 20) to play around with.
I understand that, and you're right, but what I was suggesting was, instead of making AC only viable by improving it, since you're doing a system change, it might just be better to change AC itself to something more reasonable.
Some kind of Armor as Damage Reduction
a level-based bonus to AC for all classes with light or no armor
Alright, but I hope that your new feats improve Dodge, so that it's not so harsh to get Spring Attack.
Good, I can't wait to see it.
Alright, good point. I'm a little biased here, because I played the barbarian alongside a cleric and an optimized spellcaster (Int-based sorcerer with access to the druid and cleric spell lists, Unearthed Arcana)/incantatrix, and when we fought the tarrasque I was swallowed whole 8 or 9 times because the spellcaster was keeping himself a safe distance above the tarrasque and didn't fly down to help me. (I know he has freedom of movement Persisted too, the DM tried to grapple him in another encounter)
With this fix, that would be a losing approach.
Great. As long as you're going to be handing out boosts, then I'll wait and see what the improved rogue and ranger look like before judging.
I'm really not trying to give you a hard time to be a jerk, I want this to work out so that you and the people you play with enjoy the system more like you want.
To be completely fair, V wasn't with a "party" as much as he/she was with a group of ships that contained more than 30 paladins/warriors of various levels.
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2011-09-25, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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Re: General 3.5 Core balance fix (3.5 Core, PEACH)
Alright, sounds like a plan.
I have thought about a fix to make a point of AC equally valuable no matter how high the enemy's to-hit is, but that's a different fix.
Actually, two of the new feats will do that. One of them is for you (armor and shields let you trade dodge and DEX bonuses for DR; an optimized sword-and-board fighter will be pretty much invulnerable except to magic and splash weapons until his shield is eliminated from the picture), while the other is for your target (because sometimes you'd rather they have DR than AC, particularly when you plan to Power Attack. The DR from that tends to be high, but is weaker against bludgeoning.)
And of course he thought that because he's a spellcaster he can easily disable the tarrasque and then lightning it to the point where a Miracle can kill it, and the party barbarian doesn't really matter.
With this fix, that would be a losing approach.
No, we were only level 12, so we didn't have access to miracle or anything like that. We ended up winning only because the cleric cast finger of death as a joke on his turn and the tarrasque rolled a natural one, then I stayed there and cou'de'graced it to keep its hit points below -858 while the spellcaster teleported back to our boss (an epic wizard) who used wish to transport it to another plane.
The rogue and ranger are actually interesting: The rogue will benefit mildly from some of the new feats (a TWF rogue will actually be able to do some decent DPR even without Sneak Attack, so long as the enemy has no DR), and will appreciate the changed Knock spell (making Open Lock actually be worth something), but will get very few changes. The way I see it, any class with that skill list and that many skill points can do just fine on its own. (To put it another way, a rogue can, if played to its optimum, be to the adventure or even campaign what a "standard" wizard is to the encounter. If rogues and bards weren't so difficult to play optimally, they'd be the most broken classes out there.)
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2011-09-25, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: General 3.5 Core balance fix (3.5 Core, PEACH)
Definitely. It's on the list. (The basic idea is to make it exponential instead of linear, in a sense.)
Changing an opponent's AC to DR? That's...very interesting.
No. He wasn't a blaster. He was a self-buffer who used a special mighty longbow that adjusted itself to whatever strength he had
No, we were only level 12, so we didn't have access to miracle or anything like that. We ended up winning only because the cleric cast finger of death as a joke on his turn and the tarrasque rolled a natural one, then I stayed there and cou'de'graced it to keep its hit points below -858 while the spellcaster teleported back to our boss (an epic wizard) who used wish to transport it to another plane.
I suggest, since your rogue will likely be Hide-focused, that you change the rules of Sneak Attack to make it easier to perform ranged Sneak Attacks
Or if the terrain supports it (in an area like a dungeon it usually does), you can attack, move behind total cover to break LoS, then move back into LoS but stay behind cover and sneak attack again.
so sniper rogues/assassins don't have to work nearly as hard to keep up with TWF rogues, who not only deal more damage, but also have a much easier time Sneak Attacking with their walk-up-and-flank approach.
Oh, I realized that I forgot to post about the ranger's boosts: Unlike all the others, his boosts will be mid-level and will largely overlap with his high-level stuff, with the result that a high-level ranger will be only marginally increased in power.
Not that he really needs the boost at high levels, as he's already by far the best guerrilla class out there.
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2011-09-25, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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Re: General 3.5 Core balance fix (3.5 Core, PEACH)
The DM let him homebrew a weapon enhancement. He claimed it was similar to the sizing enhancement, just altering Strength at will instead. She let it go.
You know, that really doesn't work by RAW. You can't CDG something that has regeneration except with something that can bypass the regeneration.
If it can't see you, you can sneak attack. Improved Invisibility can do wonders for sneak attack rate.
Or if the terrain supports it (in an area like a dungeon it usually does), you can attack, move behind total cover to break LoS, then move back into LoS but stay behind cover and sneak attack again.
There is no way that a sniper rogue will do as much damage as a TWF rogue. It's a trade-off; if you want the heavy damage, you have to give up some defensive capability. If you want both, you have to play a martial class and give up most or all of your noncombat abilities. Nobody can be the best at everything.
Oh, I realized that I forgot to post about the ranger's boosts: Unlike all the others, his boosts will be mid-level and will largely overlap with his high-level stuff, with the result that a high-level ranger will be only marginally increased in power.
Not that he really needs the boost at high levels, as he's already by far the best guerrilla class out there.
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2011-09-26, 02:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: General 3.5 Core balance fix (3.5 Core, PEACH)
If the DM's solo rogue villain ever engages the PC's in combat before they've already effectively won, he's doing it wrong.
Well, perhaps you could at least extend the range that Sneak Attack can take place by 30 ft. I mean, having to be within 30 feet when you take a -20 to Hide checks after shooting will be painful. (Even if you cut that penalty down a bit, it would still put the ranged rogue in danger)
I disagree, your monk fix makes a better skirmisher than the current ranger.
But a guerrilla fighter is not the same thing as a skirmisher. Guerrilla warfare isn't about using mobility to win the battle, it's about using the ability to pick your battles (via mobility to some extent, but more importantly stealth and knowledge of the area) to win the war. And that's something that the ranger (by far the best base class out there in terms of stealth, and with K(geography) as a class skill and the ability to live off the land) is terrific for. He could be better (I'm planning to spread out his stealth bonuses along earlier levels, and give him Fast Movement), but a somewhat optimized 20th level ranger is by far one of the most frustrating opponents to deal with on his home territory.
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2011-11-10, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: General 3.5 Core balance fix (3.5 Core, PEACH)
And the cleric portion is up; it's also independently posted here.
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2011-11-17, 10:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: General 3.5 Core balance fix (3.5 Core, PEACH)
And the druid is done. Next comes the boosts, starting with the barbarian.
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2011-11-23, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: General 3.5 Core balance fix (3.5 Core, PEACH)
And the barbarian's done. Next comes the fighter and paladin.
Last edited by Yitzi; 2011-11-23 at 03:50 PM.
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2011-12-05, 08:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: General 3.5 Core balance fix (3.5 Core, PEACH)
Fighter and paladin (and feats and equipment rules) are done.
Last edited by Yitzi; 2011-12-05 at 08:23 PM.
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2011-12-13, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: General 3.5 Core balance fix (3.5 Core, PEACH)
And the ranger fix is up.
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2011-12-22, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: General 3.5 Core balance fix (3.5 Core, PEACH)
And it's done.