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2011-08-23, 09:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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The Judge (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
The Judge
Spoiler
"The peace of the world can only be maintained when those in authority have absolute power."- Tsubaki Yayoi, BlazBlue Continuum Shift
The judge is an instrument of law and order for his deity. With much stronger convictions than a normal cleric, a judge will fight until his last breath in order to maintain the stability of the rulers of the world.
Religion: A judge must select a lawful deity to worship and bestow power upon him. The judge cannot gain his power from an idea such as Law as a cleric can.
Alignment: Any lawful. A judge is not bound by the relative moral system of "good" and "evil". As long as the judge obeys what is stated as law, he is in the right in his own mind.
HD: d10
Class Skills: The judge's class skills are Climb, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Knowledge (Religion), Sense Motive and Swim.
Skill Points: 4+Int per level (x4 at 1st level)
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Aura of Law, Detect Chaos, Smite Chaos 1+Cha/day
2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Divine Grace, Law Before Justice
3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Divine Health, Aura of Order
4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Turn Chaos
5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Smite Chaos 2+Cha/day
6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+5|Shackles of Order
7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+5|Sword of Law +1
8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+6|Rebuke Law
9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+6|Rule of Law
10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+7|Smite Chaos 3+Cha/day, Sword of Law +2
11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+7|Aura of Restriction
12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+8|Improved Shackles of Order
13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+8|Sword of Law +3
14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+9|Natural Diplomat
15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+9|Smite Chaos 4+Cha/day
16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+10|Sword of Law +4
17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|Improved Rule of Law
18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+11|Greater Shackles of Order
19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|Sword of Law +5
20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|You Will All Submit, Smite Chaos 5+Cha/day
[/table]
Class Features:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A judge is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as light, medium, and heavy armor, and shields (except tower shields)
Aura of Law (Ex): A judge is a being of law and order, much like an inevitable or a devil. He projects a magical aura of law, as if he were a lawful outsider with an HD equal to his judge level.
Detect Chaos (Sp): A judge is able to sense the wild abandon within people, so that he may either correct or remove them in order to protect the stability of society. A judge is able to cast detect chaos as a spell-like ability at will, with a caster level equal to his judge level.
Smite Chaos (Su): A judge's blade carries will of his deity. A judge may declare his intention to cleanse the world of his enemy. If the enemy he has targeted is chaotic, he receives a bonus to his attack rolls equal to his Charisma modifier (minimum +0), and a bonus on damage rolls equal to his judge level for the rest of the encounter. These bonuses only apply to attacks and damage rolls made against the targeted creature. If the enemy is not chaotic, the paladin does not gain a bonus, though he still expends a use of his divine power as a lesson of restraint to him. The judge receives one use of Smite Chaos per day, and an additional use for every 5 judge levels he gains, plus one use per point of Charisma bonus (minimum +0).
Divine Grace (Su): The judge is a warrior, and though he does not receive the spellcasting power from his god that the cleric does, he does receive more protection from harm. Starting at 2nd level, the judge receives a bonus on all his saving throws equal to his Charisma modifier (minimum +0)
Law Before Justice (Ex): Even when the scum of the earth have raped, pillaged, and destroyed everything in sight, even when the goody-two shoes creeps have convinced so many of your allies to atone and join the side of good, even when every inch of the judge's being wants nothing more than to plunge his sword into the creature's neck and end its life for good, the paladin knows that it is not his place. He is not a vigilante or some defender of justice. He is simply an officer of the law. Starting at 2nd level, the judge may deal nonlethal damage with any attack without taking the standard -4 penalty.
Divine Health (Ex): The divine power of law allows for regulation of things that normal creatures couldn't even begin to understand, including the most effective immune system in the world. Starting at 3rd level, the judge's completely structured life affects his own body as well. The judge becomes immune to all mundane and magical diseases, such as those caused by the contagion spell, as well as supernatural diseases such as mummy rot and lycanthropy.
Aura of Order (Su): Though weaker creatures can, through magical influence, succumb to their inner madness, a judge has no such tendencies to begin with. Starting at 3rd level, the judge becomes immune to confusion, and allies within 10 feet of the paladin receive a morale bonus to their saving throws against confusion effects equal to the judge's class level.
Turn Chaos (Su): The judge is a force of law. He stands firm against outsiders who would spread their filth about freedom and destruction through the world. Beginning at 4th level, a judge gains the ability to turn chaotic outsiders, as a cleric turns undead. If the judge is of good alignment, he may turn demons, if the judge is of evil alignment, he may turn eladrin. A neutral judge chooses one or the other when he gains this class feature, he may not change this option later. The judge gains daily uses of this class feature equal to 3+his Charisma modifier. His effective cleric level for this class feature is equal to his judge level-3.
Shackles of Order (Sp): Unfortunately, sometimes those who would disobey don't stand and fight for their freedom like men, but run like cowards. Like slaves who try to escape from their owners. In order for a judge to capture criminals without harming them and bring them to justice, his god has given him many tools. Starting at 6th level, once per day, the judge may cast hold person as a spell-like ability, with a caster level equal to his class level. The save DC is 13+the judge's Charisma modifier.
Sword of Law (Su): In the judge's hands, any weapon becomes an instrument of law and is infused with the power of order. Starting at 7th level, any weapon the judge wields has its enhancement bonus increased by 1 and automatically receives the axiomatic weapon ability. At 10th level, and every 3 levels after that, the enhancement bonus increases by another +1, to a maximum of +5 at level 19. Additionally, starting at level 13, the weapon also projects a magic circle against chaos effect, with a caster level equal to the judge's class level. (The judge's Aura of Restriction automatically suppresses the sword's protection from compulsion effect) This ability allows a weapon's total enhancement bonus to increase up to +10, regardless of whether the judge holding it is epic level or not. It also allows the weapon to be axiomatic regardless of how many other abilities the weapon has. If a judge's weapon has a total enhancement bonus of +6 or higher, it overcomes DR/Epic.
Rebuke Law (Su): The judge speaks for his deity, and creatures of law find it difficult to question his authority. Starting at 8th level, the judge gains the ability to rebuke lawful outsiders. A lawful evil judge is able to rebuke and command any lawful evil outsider, such as a devil. A lawful neutral judge is able to rebuke and command any lawful neutral outsider, such as an inevitable. A lawful good judge is able to rebuke and command any lawful good outsider, such as certain angels and celestials. A judge's effective cleric level for his rebuke/command law ability is equal to his judge level+his Sword of Law bonus. A judge may rebuke law 3+his Charisma modifier times per day (minimum 3).
Rule of Law (Sp): A judge does not always use his weapon to restore order. Sometimes all it takes is a few strong words, and a little magic. Starting at 9th level, a judge gains the ability to cast dominate person as a spell-like ability once per day per four class levels (to a maximum of 5/day at 20th level). His caster level is equal to his judge level, and the save DC is equal to 15+his Charisma modifier.
Aura of Restriction (Su): A judge does not have the time to deal with those who believe themselves above the law. The strength of his deity exceeds all other magic, and even those who thought themselves gods with their arcane power bow before the judge's commands. Starting at 11th level, the judge projects an aura of restriction, which completely negates magical freedom. Any creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher within 60 feet of the judge loses any immunities to mind-affecting and compulsion abilities, whether those immunities were natural (such as a vampire's) or magical (such as a wizard's mind blank spell) for as long as they remain within the judge's aura. This aura affects the judge's allies, as well as the judge himself.
Improved Shackles of Order (Sp): Starting at 12th level, the judge's shackles of order ability improves. The judge may now cast hold monster as a spell-like ability, once per day per four class levels, maximum of 5 at 20th. The DC is 16+his Charisma modifier. This ability overlaps Shackles of Order, and the judge loses his daily casting of hold person.
Natural Diplomat (Ex): The judge respects authority, and he is able to naturally adapt to any social situation that is called for, though his honesty often betrays him, he is not naive. Starting at 14th level, the judge receives an insight bonus on his Diplomacy, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), and Sense Motive checks equal to half his class level, but takes the same amount as a penalty to his Bluff and Forgery checks, as well as his Disguise checks made to act in-character.
Improved Rule of Law (Sp): A judge must have authority to maintain the order of the world. That authority must command the respect of all, from the mightiest dragon to the strongest giant. Starting at 17th level, the judge's rule of law ability now allows him to cast dominate monster as a spell-like ability once per day per four class levels instead of dominate person. His caster level is equal to his judge level, and the save DC is equal to 19+his Charisma modifier.
Greater Shackles of Order (Sp): A judge will stand and fight every enemy of law, even if he is outnumbered 30 to 1, in order to protect the structure of the world. Starting at 18th level, the judge may cast mass hold monster as a spell-like ability once per day, with a caster level equal to his judge level. The DC is 19+his Charisma modifier. This ability is in addition to his spell-like abilities from Improved Shackles of Order.
You Will All Submit (Su): The 20th level judge is a remarkable force of law and order. At 20th level, the judge gains DR 10/Chaotic and projects a supernatural aura that imposes the rule of law on all who enter. Any creature within 100 ft of the judge takes a -5 penalty on all saving throws against compulsion effects, as well as a -4 HD penalty for the purposes of turning and rebuking checks.
Code of Conduct: A judge must always be lawful, and must submit to the authority of those above him, as well as to the laws and customs of the land. If the judge comes from a country that has banned slavery, it does not permit him to free the slaves of other countries where slavery is legal, for example. The rule of law is all-important. The judge must also never knowingly ally himself with chaotic creatures.
The judge must worship his Patron Deity, and must obey his deity's will. If the law of the land changes or if the judge enters new territory that clashes with the deity's beliefs or orders, the judge treats his deity's will as the absolute law over the local law.
The judge may not employ the following dishonorable tactics in battle: poison, ravages, sneak attack, death attack, sudden strike. The judge may not deal lethal damage to a creature who has voluntarily surrendered to his authority.
The judge may only accept followers and cohorts whose alignment matches his own exactly, should he take the Leadership feat or gain followers through some similar system.
If the judge violates this code of conduct in any way, he immediately loses all his class features until such time that he has atoned and received an atonement spell from a cleric of the church of his deity.
Unlike the PHB paladin, this judge does not face any multiclassing restrictions.Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-10-16 at 01:51 AM.
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2011-08-24, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
I never get why things get DR/alignment of the weapons your most powerful enemies are likely to wield. Why are you only weak against your enemies?
Anyway, I don't like this much. Probably because
A) I have strong leanings towards chaotic neutral.
B) I read a lot of One Piece.
C) this is just begging to be played as lawful stupid.Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2011-08-24 at 06:18 PM.
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2011-08-24, 06:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
I believe Paladins have strong lawful convictions. And you're weak against your enemies, but only your enemies. You are able to ignore all other forms of attacks.
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2011-08-24, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
Its mechanically solid, if clearly T4. That said, the code is highly disruptive, and the capstone ability is a liability (it includes allies for some reason). That said, it doesn't feel like a paladin - if anything this is the sort of class that seems to work for secret police style imperial agents.
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
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2011-08-24, 06:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
The Smite Chaos just doesn't sit quite right with me The rest seems good from my quick read through.
One idea I do with the regular paladins is make thier smite per encounter rather then per day.
The reason for that is I imagine a Smite to be the paladin calling upon his convictions to bring justice to his foes, and him only being able to do it so many times a day makes little sense. It also helps give them a bit more battle prowess then usual.Last edited by Antonok; 2011-08-24 at 06:27 PM.
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2011-08-24, 06:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2011-08-24, 06:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
Indeed. The Smite Chaos ability is similar to the Pathfinder paladin instead of the 3.5 paladin, except it's toned down. (The Pathfinder paladin also gets their Cha as an insight bonus to their AC against attacks made by the enemy they're smiting)
The reason it affects allies is because the world must have order. The paladin does not defend his allies against their duty to obey the commands of the law. Besides, once a creature is rebuked, it's your ally, but if it suddenly has more HD than it did, you've no longer got it rebuked, so...yeah. That wouldn't work out.
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2011-08-24, 06:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
I don't understand what makes the code of conduct disruptive. It's exactly like the 3.5 paladin's code, except that you are unable to use ravages, sneak attacks, sudden strikes and death attacks. (You already couldn't use poisons)
In every other way, it is the same as the 3.5 paladin, with the good requirement removed.
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2011-08-24, 06:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
I think I ninja edited you in my above post while you were typing. My points still stands, this is begging to be lawful stupid. And I just can't see a situation where this guy won't be a major pain in the party, unless it's entirely made of paladins, and maybe clerics of Saint Cuthbert.
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2011-08-24, 07:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
That bit, that right there - it causes problems. Sure, if the world has stable nations as the default this might be reasonable, but various tiny areas ruled by a tyrant without a stable legal system aren't exactly uncommon in fantasy, and it doesn't work well with those. It works for things along the lines of imperial agents in China or Rome during their more stable periods, not to mention the Aztec Empire, Carthaginians, Inca Empire, Ghana, Numidia, and Mali prior to European influence but the early Germanic kingdoms? The Scottish highlands? There are issues.
There are areas where this works perfectly, such as a bunch of NPC secret police, or within a group template where the PCs are said secret police. The freelance adventuring group isn't one of them.Last edited by Knaight; 2011-08-24 at 07:22 PM.
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2011-08-24, 07:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
That seems to be the lawful thing to do though. Even if you don't agree with the law personally, a lawful character will obey it because those are the rules and you must respect authority. Now some might argue that a lawful character isn't that extreme and I would agree, but the character who epitomizes law would be.
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2011-08-24, 07:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
Good sir, I must most strongly disagree.
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http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...hp?topic=11792Last edited by Prime32; 2011-08-24 at 07:58 PM.
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2011-08-24, 07:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
I don't find that to be lawful, rather I find that speech to be extremely Chaotic Good. The "I will decide what is right and the majority will have to accept me or fight me" is not lawful at all.
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2011-08-24, 07:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
His principles haven't changed from when he was on the government's side. His principles have stayed the same, and the government's have changed. You don't have to have to be on speaking terms with the government to be lawful, you just have to follow a personal code of honor and stick to it.
Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2011-08-24 at 07:56 PM.
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2011-08-24, 07:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
It only looks that way if you're looking at it from a metagame perspective.
Consider that most powerful angels have DR/Evil and most powerful fiends have DR/Good.
You can read it as them being specifically weak to only their greatest foes, but rather, read it as something like they are only capable of being harmed by a source of great holiness/evil. Or in other case, something of great Order/Chaos.
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2011-08-24, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
Regardless of that, the code is disruptive. Any story where the authority isn't working and needs to be opposed - and there are a bunch of these in fantasy- or any case in which the laws aren't really consistent and tend to be self contradictory cause the code to start breaking the game. Anyways, on lawfulness:
SpoilerOriginally Posted by d20srdOriginally Posted by d20srdOriginally Posted by d20srdI would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
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2011-08-24, 08:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
Eh, I myself see Paladins as G-O-O-D Good, not L-A-W-F-U-L Lawful. The idea of a Paladin that puts something as silly as traditions and faulty governments ahead of the greater good strikes me as something that simply isn't so. The Paladin isn't about doing what the king says, or what any given person says; it's about doing what is Right. In another Paladin fix, the idea was referenced that the very existence of Paladins meant that there is a definable, objective definition of Good, however difficult it may be to see it. Thus, the Paladin's duty is not to the Laws of people, but to the Laws of everything that is Good and Just.
Thus, disobeying the laws of the land in order to do what is needed isn't being chaotic or even unlawful; it's simply submitting to a higher law than anything even a deity could set in place.It's a falcon. Wearing a Fedora. Your argument is irrelevant.
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2011-08-25, 12:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
This. You can read DR <n>/evil, as being very resistant against most mundane attacks. You don't worry with "lesser" harming, as you are protected. Only the most evil, cruel, vile-powered attacks have a chance to puncture your divine carapace. Also, being immune to your enemy's attacks is evil. Choosing to fight the only one that has the chance to actually harm you, that is trully heroic.
For DR <n>/good... well, something similar. A dark power so poweful that only the strongest light powers can penetrate it. And usually evil guys will avoid the ones with the divine can-opener and try tricks to win without getting in harm's way.
Finally, I agree this is less a paladin of justice, and more as an inquisitor.
"relative moral system of "good" and "evil"" is the typical excuse villains use to try to justify their acts. You never see heroes saying it. Even anti-heroes admit they are not above good and evil, but are willing to take the blame for extreme actions.
Other than that, these abilities looks good. I'd say they are on par with the variant paladins from Unearthed Arcana (also in the hypertext d20 website).
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2011-08-26, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
While there are plenty of Paladin variants, given the law-law-i-love-law-give-more-rules-rules-rules behaviour of this class I'd rather call it 'the Enforcer'.
The class progression isn't bad and is slightly less MAD than the normal Paladin, but in the end it narrows down on fighting exclusively chaotic creatures - and using the diplomatic skills out of it. Not many options there.The Pen is mightier than the Sword - when the message is written in Blood.
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2011-08-26, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
If you behave as this code dictates, and someone told you you're "paladin-esque" because of it, then, sir, she was wrong. The paladin is the paragon of heroic chivalry, not the thoughtless lapdog of whichever government happens to rule the land he's standing on at a given moment.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say that changing your stance based on changing geopolitical location is not lawful at all. Such a character would be all over the place, both morally and ethically, based on whichever ruler happened to be telling him what to do at the time. Hell, if he were fighting on behalf of his ruler against an invading army, and the invaders successfully took the capital and conquered his regime, he'd have to switch sides. There is no honor, there is no heroism, there is no paladin in what this class represents.
As to the mechanics of that code, even disregarding all the above, it is set up to fail. What if your religion is not the state religion of the nation you are in? What if it has some other state religion? What if worshiping your god is banned by law? What if your lawful ruler orders you to participate in an attack against some other country that has cleverly made attacking it illegal? You'd have to disobey your lawful orders the instant you crossed the border. The code doesn't pass the basics of internal consistency for all of these reasons and more.
Aside from all that, you've committed the very basic mistake of conflating "lawful" the alignment with "lawful" the word meaning "law-abiding." The two are not the same, and the game suffers immeasurably from Gary Gygax's (all praise his name) inability to get out a thesaurus. This is by far the worst example of that I have ever seen. In terms of fluff, in terms of ability to function, and in terms of faithfulness to the concept of paladin, this class has no redeeming value.
Moving on to pure mechanics, I haven't thoroughly read the whole thing and probably won't, but one thing jumped out at me while going through. What's with the save DCs on the abilities? 13+CHA? 15+CHA? 19+CHA? That's not how it's done at all; save DCs for offensive class abilities are 10 + half level (for base classes; PrCs usually use level because they get less of them) + the relevant ability modifier; static DCs are of waning usefulness as levels increase, for obvious reasons.
That's about all I've got to say on this."Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein
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2011-08-26, 01:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
Spell-like abilities are always spell level + 10 + modifier. Hold person is a 3rd level spell, dominate person is a 5th level spell, hold monster is a 6th level spell, dominate monster is a 9th level spell, hold monster mass is a 9th level spell.
And you will never convince me that a paladin stands for good more than for law. Laws exist to keep others safe. Perhaps everyone here has been playing in too many campaigns where the government is corrupt. Order must be upheld to maintain stability in the world, and therefore chaos would have to be extinguished. That is the code of my paladin.
"All over the place, morally and ethically?" I'm saying the paladin is thoughtless, his only concern is that he upholds the laws of the land. He has no personal morals or convictions other than the desire to maintain structure. If a person has their own beliefs, their own opinions on how things should be done, then they will rebel, eventually. That's just part of being human. And if you rebel against the law, if you destroy a government, then the people no longer receive the law's protection or benefits, and that would plunge the world into, wait for it...chaos.Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-08-26 at 01:12 PM.
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2011-08-26, 03:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
Actually what you are describing is more lawful neutral than lawful good, possibly even true neutral, while I can understand that some laws need to be upheld, saying that even those of a corrupt government need to be is illogical.
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2011-08-26, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-08-26, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
Textbook lawful neutral.
While I'll try not to get as passionate as others, I'd agree that your code is disruptive to a party. Totally sidestepping the whole "what is lawful" thing for a bit, parties include characters of varied alignments, classes, goals, and methods. Your paladin can party with Neutral Evil characters, who strongly reject your pally's "abandon the self" philosophy. He can party with druids and rangers, who tend to have agendas that run counter to local laws from time to time. He can party with bards, rogues, ninjas, and assassins - classes that have skills and features intended to help them break the law, and very crime-friendly fluff. He can party with members of prestige classes like vigilante, avenging executioner, and scar enforcer - classes themed around taking the law into your own hands. It is inevitable that your pally will come into HARD conflict with parties containing these sorts of characters, since he is compelled to obey the rule of law (ALL the laws, ALL the time) under threat of losing his class features.
As an alternative, consider restricting the pally so that he can only party with other lawful characters. This would dramatically reduce the potential for conflict, and if the group is rolling an all-lawful party, it's probably understood by all that skullduggery is not to be considered in such a campaign.Last edited by jiriku; 2011-08-26 at 05:12 PM.
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2011-08-26, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-08-26, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
Guys, keep in mind
Alignment: Any lawful. A paladin is not bound by the relative moral system of "good" and "evil". As long as the paladin obeys what is stated as law, he is in the right in his own mind.
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2011-08-26, 08:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
And your "paladin" isn't, because that isn't good. It's also incredibly naive. Laws exist to keep others safe when there is good governance. When there is not, they exist for the aggrandizement of the government at the expense of the governed. "Law = safety" is pure fiction, even in a fictional world.
You are a "paladin" of Saint Cuthbert. You are in a land ruled by a cleric of Hextor. Worship of any god other than Hextor is banned by law. What happens? Or heck, you are a "paladin" of Saint Cuthbert, who commands protection of the common folk, and the land is ruled by some cultist of Erythnul who randomly slaughters said common folk and due to being in charge has made it legal for him to do. What happens?"Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein
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2011-08-26, 08:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
My paladin isn't supposed to be good.
You are a "paladin" of Saint Cuthbert. You are in a land ruled by a cleric of Hextor. Worship of any god other than Hextor is banned by law. What happens? Or heck, you are a "paladin" of Saint Cuthbert, who commands protection of the common folk, and the land is ruled by some cultist of Erythnul who randomly slaughters said common folk and due to being in charge has made it legal for him to do. What happens?
As for places where the worship of other gods is prohibited by law, I suppose the paladin would simply avoid those places. (Again, I've never played a game where religion was part of the law, and I designed the class based on my experiences) If it was unavoidable, he would lose his class features and have to atone, or change to the god who ruled the land. (Assuming the god was lawful)
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2011-08-26, 09:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Paladin (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)
And no one would have a problem if it wasn't called paladin, but "Judge" or something. The name "paladin" is associated with good.
And Tsubaki is supposed to be a tragic character because she's trying to achieve good goals but doesn't realise that supporting the Librarium will ultimately cause far more chaos than rebelling against it. The Librarium doesn't need to be torn down entirely; if she killed the Omnicidal Maniacs in charge and installed people like Jin and herself in their place then it would barely cause any disruption at all, but she's so devoted to her methods that she forgets what her goal was.Last edited by Prime32; 2011-08-26 at 09:18 PM.