LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!

[TechnoScrabble]

*Hugs*

*hugs back with spine breaking squeezes*

And I don't get why they call the condition attention deficit hyperactive disorder. It's not that don't pay attention, it's that I pay attention to everything, and every once in a blue moon, when I'm really stressed out, that makes it hard to work.
Otherwise, though, it's worked more as a social advantage in my favor, so long as the people I'm talking to don't know I'm diagnosed. Then they freak out.

You figure they'd freak out about the burn scars and the extreme fear of not being able to see and the having to get a sort of replacement of my cerebrospinal fluid (necrosis of the nervous system is not fun, kids, avoid pit vipers) every few weeks with a needle the size of my middle finger and the the fact that I'm a ginger but nooooo it's the ADHD.

[Arachu]

*hugs back with spine breaking squeezes*

And I don't get why they call the condition attention deficit hyperactive disorder. It's not that don't pay attention, it's that I pay attention to everything, and every once in a blue moon, when I'm really stressed out, that makes it hard to work.
Otherwise, though, it's worked more as a social advantage in my favor, so long as the people I'm talking to don't know I'm diagnosed. Then they freak out.

Huh. I pay attention to everything too, but that's because I grew up thinking I had bad memory. The headache isn't that bad, but man do things get noisy on bad days.

... Still worth it.

You figure they'd freak out about the burn scars and the extreme fear of not being able to see and the having to get a sort of replacement of my cerebrospinal fluid (necrosis of the nervous system is not fun, kids, avoid pit vipers) every few weeks with a needle the size of my middle finger and the the fact that I'm a ginger but nooooo it's the ADHD.

Damn, you must be tougher than a boot. I just freak people out by talking about things that disturb them (or having long hair, curiously enough). *brofist*

[KenderWizard]

Trisc: Sorry your asking-out didn't work out. Indulge in how you feel; what you're feeling right now is totally legitimate. But it will get better. Also, you should totally make yourself a medal! You can buy those things and get them engraved, you know!

Are you nuts? If we can't segregate by gender then we will have to find something else to separate people by.

I for one suggest sock length. All hail the glorious medium length socks the masters of the inferior long socks and short socks (knee high socks position is still under debate)

Damn, I always mess up on that!

Am I the only one who almost never has trouble understanding what Coidzor means?

I actually did understand him that time! So, maybe I understand him only when he's not talking to me?

I feel like that all the time! Sometimes I get headaches wondering if I'll creep people out on accident... :c

*hugs*

I like Yugi, he's a good kid. Yami-Yugi is definitely an excellent character. Voice is incredibly sexy. (Which dub did you watch?) But Bakura definitely got the looks.

The normal dub? I haven't come across a second dub. Oh, sexy card games time!

Well this is my child hood you're talking about. I love Yami/Atem, he's like the best superhero ever.

But personally I think looking back one of the earliest signs I can think of that I always have been gay, is that I thought that there was something between Richy and Ash, as well as Sparky and Pikachu. I have an extended theory that developed since then.

Richy is gay for Ash, and Ash is bi but has stronger feelings for Misty(feelings that he forgot when the producers gave him some Railroad-ium at the end of season five). This is the character I have most wanted a return for, but I only got like two episodes in Jhoto.

Also, Pikachu and Sparky are gay lovers. This explains Pikachu's shyness around Buneary in the God-awful first season of Diamond and Pearl.

This is great!! As far as I'm concerned, though, there's no such thing as Jhoto. And there are only 153 Pokemon. (Mewtwo counts as one of the 150, then there's Mew, Togepi and that bird Ash saw on his very first day.)

[The Succubus]

A little food for thought for the #Heroes page - what would LGBTAP pokemon look like?

[Coidzor]

A little food for thought for the #Heroes page - what would LGBTAP pokemon look like?

Like any other pokémon.

Well, actually, I have no idea what P stands for in this context, it's the only one I don't recall coming up in the alphabet soup exercises...

[The Succubus]

Pansexual, I believe. It's a little hard to keep track of them all sometimes.

[Asta Kask]

And I've made an ass out of myself over at Natalie's. Please don't read the comments for the last two threads. I have come to the conclusion that I should never argue politics.

[The Succubus]

"Politics is a game of fools."

- The Succubus

[Heliomance]

And I've made an ass out of myself over at Natalie's. Please don't read the comments for the last two threads. I have come to the conclusion that I should never argue politics.

Having just gone and read the comments on "Shut Up, That's Why", I have to say that I'm more inclined to agree with your point of view than a lot of the others

[supernerd]

A little food for thought for the #Heroes page - what would LGBTAP pokemon look like?

It will look like the most amazing Pokémon ever. But I thought I went over this, Ash's Pikachu is gay.

[Mono Vertigo]

And I've made an ass out of myself over at Natalie's. Please don't read the comments for the last two threads. I have come to the conclusion that I should never argue politics.

*reads "Shut up, that's why"*
I don't know, this article's very interesting nonetheless!
*reads Asta's comments near the top of the comments*
And you make some good points.
*scrolls down, reads the argument over whether “die cis scum" constitutes a threat or not*
... wait, what the hell is going on?

[Astrella]

[COLOR="Navy"Also *hugs Astrella*. You know, because. [/COLOR]

*hugs*
(This is just going to end with us replying to hugs with hugs for the rest of the thread in an endless chain isn't it? )

Sorry, Astrella. Nowadays, I just tend to browse the last page, and my brain only really registers a few things or subjects I can reply to. I'm not ignoring you intentionally.
*belated hugs*

's okay. *hugs*

*reads "Shut up, that's why"*
I don't know, this article's very interesting nonetheless!
*reads Asta's comments near the top of the comments*
And you make some good points.
*scrolls down, reads the argument over whether “die cis scum" constitutes a threat or not*
... wait, what the hell is going on?

I think the main reasoning behind "die cis scum" is that it's something trans* people likely will have felt at some point (maybe not in those exact words, but resentment / jealousy / ... ), secondly, the reason I think it's often not called a threat is because it's uttered by a group which doesn't really have a lot of power to act on the threat, thus rendering it sorta meaningless. And there's also the thought of, when someone says they hate all people for example, do you stick by them or try to help them? (Sorta like an ultimate challenge.)

Edit: And it's also a catalyst to discussion; by appearing threatening it makes trans* people have a voice in a way and won't appear helpless anymore.

(Edit2: I can see the merits of it as a means to start a discussion, I (obviously) don't want it to be followed up.)

Edit3: The line shocked me at first too and it took me some time to understand the reasoning behind it too.

[Castaras]

Woah woah woah woah. Hang on a second.

"Die <anyone> scum" is a threat if it's not sarcasm or a joke. No matter who it's aimed at. It's bad if anyone has violence thrown at them, no matter whether either party belongs to a minority or not.

[Astrella]

Woah woah woah woah. Hang on a second.

"Die <anyone> scum" is a threat if it's not sarcasm or a joke. No matter who it's aimed at. It's bad if anyone has violence thrown at them, no matter whether either party belongs to a minority or not.

This isn't really on the level of individual people, but on the level of groups. What harm can a minority that is so outnumbered do to cis-people if it'd come to a "war" as to say. (The threat isn't really directed to individual people. :s )

Edit: Not saying it isn't a threat, but it's a threat with very little power to it. (And note that this was a phrase discussed internally on a trans radical feminist site, not necissarily one aimed at other people.)

Edit2: And even so, this threat is directed at violent cissexists and transphobes, to shake them up, to make them realize even a bit how their hatred and dehumanization feels.

[Castaras]

This isn't really on the level of individual people, but on the level of groups. What harm can a minority that is so outnumbered do to cis-people if it'd come to a "war" as to say. (The threat isn't really directed to individual people. :s )

Any threat between groups alienates both groups from one and another. Having one group of people threaten another is just as bad whether it's minority v majority, minority v minority, or majority v minority.

Trying to threaten another group widens the rift between the two, is counterproductive to bringing the two groups to work together, and is just making your group as bad as those that belong to ours who threaten you.

[Astrella]

Any threat between groups alienates both groups from one and another. Having one group of people threaten another is just as bad whether it's minority v majority, minority v minority, or majority v minority.

Trying to threaten another group widens the rift between the two, is counterproductive to bringing the two groups to work together, and is just making your group as bad as those that belong to ours who threaten you.

Except cis-people you know, follow up on those threats.
It's trying to point out how twisted society is, that you have to be a threat, have power to hurt, to get a voice sometimes. (And note that even in benevolent cases, trans voices (or any other minority voices) are often ignored. (e.g. the medical sector.)

[Mono Vertigo]

I think the main reasoning behind "die cis scum" is that it's something trans* people likely will have felt at some point (maybe not in those exact words, but resentment / jealousy / ... ), secondly, the reason I think it's often not called a threat is because it's uttered by a group which doesn't really have a lot of power to act on the threat, thus rendering it sorta meaningless. And there's also the thought of, when someone says they hate all people for example, do you stick by them or try to help them? (Sorta like an ultimate challenge.)

I can understand that feeling pretty well, but... huh... I still find it very unpleasant being targeted by such strong, negative sentiments because of what I am, and I never did or advocated similar things. It's one thing being (rightfully) angry at persecutors for their actions, it's another when you lump them together with people who haven't really done anything wrong.
As for a "group who doesn't really have a lot of power to act on the threat", maybe, but it isn't hard to believe individuals trans* people have the power to act on individual cis people. Like everyone else. A woman could spout "die male scum" and, sure, that doesn't mean men are going to be massively slaughtered because of it, but her hatred still is real, and that doesn't prevent her from making men pay one way or another.

Spoiler

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Maybe I'm sensitive about that because of my Jewish heritage. I'm in an uncomfortable situation where I don't identify as one, but I also know that my direct family, my last name, and possibly my physical features, are enough for just anyone to say "hey, you're Jewish!" and treat me, or at the very least my grandparents and my father, accordingly. I've heard classmates take a poor-quality chair and go "that's Jewish quality right there", and more directly offensive things, and none of it made me feel good. I was raised with the knowledge that threats like "death to the Jews" have been and still are being uttered, that there was that time this threat was acted upon (with my grandmother, still alive today, barely escaping it, and having had the rest of her life ruined by these events), and that when people say it today, they generally think a world without the Jews and their descendants is desirable.
So, while I recognize sayings like "die cis scum" are not physically threatening, and likely will never be, I still tend to react badly when I'm basically being told "no matter what you achieved in your life or what you've endured, I still fundamentally dislike you for what you are".
The "intent is not magic" thing works both ways. Even when I know I'm not supposed to take it personally, even when people who say it don't really hate me or want me dead, the way these words are used make me feel very uneasy.

this threat is directed at violent cissexists and transphobes, to shake them up, to make them realize even a bit how their hatred and dehumanization feels.

Unfortunately, it also hits people who don't hate and deshumanize people simply because of personal characteristics they never chose.

[Castaras]

Except cis-people you know, follow up on those threats.
It's trying to point out how twisted society is, that you have to be a threat, have power to hurt, to get a voice sometimes. (And note that even in benevolent cases, trans voices (or any other minority voices) are often ignored. (e.g. the medical sector.)

Minorities have the ability to follow up on threats as well.

Not trying to play down the fact that there's a helluvalot of violence against trans people, but throwing violence back at them - be it in empty threats or in blows - is definitely not the right way to go.

But that is beside the point - my point is, "die cis scum" is still a threat, even if it's empty, and is just as bad as an empty threat across the internet from one of us "cis scum" who say "die trans scum". There is no difference between these insults, and trying to bring differences in is counterproductive to trying to get the equality you want and remove the stigma thrown at you guys.

[Astrella]

*snip*

That's the exact thing it's trying to illustrate. If it makes you uncomfortable, it's achieving it's effects. (not meaning to be snide here, I don't want you to feel bad, I'm just trying to explain the sentiment behind the phrase) It's something I see almost everywhere, trans* people are the subject of jokes, are seen as freaks, deviants, etc. and that is if they don't just think we should be killed.

Minorities have the ability to follow up on threats as well.

Not trying to play down the fact that there's a helluvalot of violence against trans people, but throwing violence back at them - be it in empty threats or in blows - is definitely not the right way to go.

But that is beside the point - my point is, "die cis scum" is still a threat, even if it's empty, and is just as bad as an empty threat across the internet from one of us "cis scum" who say "die trans scum". There is no difference between these insults, and trying to bring differences in is counterproductive to trying to get the equality you want and remove the stigma thrown at you guys.

The thing is that cis people hardly ever get threats thrown at them, contrary to trans people. That's what it is trying to illustrate, to give a look into how it feels having to deal with threats and dehumanization everywhere.

(And this wasn't used in the same context as most trans-related threats; eg, I can't barely read comments about any trans-related store in media, because I know there'll be triggering ones. This phrase was discussed internally on a trans anarchist site.)

[The Succubus]

Ironically, sweet Cassie, the capacity for nastiness is one of the true equal properities of all humans, cis, trans, whatver.

That said, this thread neatly shows us that the capacity for love and kindness is of the other true equal properties of all humans.

It really boils down to the individual at the end of the day.

The thing is that cis people hardly ever get threats thrown at them, contrary to trans people. That's what it is trying to illustrate, to give a look into how it feels having to deal with threats and dehumanization everywhere.

I can honestly say that you are quite wrong in this regard Astrella. I was cis-gendered (still am) all the way through college and high school but that didn't stop people punching me, kicking me and hurling abuse at me over my hair colour and my name.

[Astrella]

Ironically, sweet Cassie, the capacity for nastiness is one of the true equal properities of all humans, cis, trans, whatver.

That said, this thread neatly shows us that the capacity for love and kindness is of the other true equal properties of all humans.

It really boils down to the individual at the end of the day.

Oh, yes, that's one more thing it points out, just how stupid it is to make broad sweeping statements like that about groups. Minorities tend to be sweeped over by a single brush.

I don't condone threats or violence in any direction; but this phrase isn't really intended to be followed up, but more as a catalyst for discussion (which is what it's doing now. ).

I can honestly say that you are quite wrong in this regard Astrella. I was cis-gendered (still am) all the way through college and high school but that didn't stop people punching me, kicking me and hurling abuse at me over my hair colour and my name.

But did you get bullied because you are cis? (Sorry, if I didn't make myself clear, but this was specifically along the cis - trans axis.)

(I got bullied a ton too, for stuff that didn't have to do with me being trans*.)

[Mono Vertigo]

That's the exact thing it's trying to illustrate. If it makes you uncomfortable, it's achieving it's effects. (not meaning to be snide here, I don't want you to feel bad, I'm just trying to explain the sentiment behind the phrase) It's something I see almost everywhere, trans* people are the subject of jokes, are seen as freaks, deviants, etc. and that is if they don't just think we should be killed.

Well, great job. I don't know what exactly I'm learning there, or if I'm learning it as intended, I just know that I think I'll be stepping away from the Internet for a couple hours.
(No, I'm not angry against any of you. I'm just not feeling very good, and I know I'm not going to contribute to this conversation in any meaningful or positive way anymore until I calm down.) Geez. It's the first time a discussion here has such an effect on me. What's wrong with me?

[Astrella]

Well, great job. I don't know what exactly I'm learning there, or if I'm learning it as intended, I just know that I think I'll be stepping away from the Internet for a couple hours.
(No, I'm not angry against any of you. I'm just not feeling very good, and I know I'm not going to contribute to this conversation in any meaningful or positive way anymore until I calm down.) Geez. It's the first time a discussion here has such an effect on me. What's wrong with me?

*Hugs*

Hope you feel better soon.

[Heliomance]

This isn't really on the level of individual people, but on the level of groups. What harm can a minority that is so outnumbered do to cis-people if it'd come to a "war" as to say. (The threat isn't really directed to individual people. :s )

Edit: Not saying it isn't a threat, but it's a threat with very little power to it. (And note that this was a phrase discussed internally on a trans radical feminist site, not necissarily one aimed at other people.)

Edit2: And even so, this threat is directed at violent cissexists and transphobes, to shake them up, to make them realize even a bit how their hatred and dehumanization feels.

You can't say that it's directed at "violent cissexists and transphobes". No such distinction is made. It's directed blanketly at all cis-identifying people. Transphobes, indifferents, and allies alike, it's othering just as much as anti-trans sentiment is. Just because you're bigoted against a majority doesn't stop it being bigotry. It's intimating that other humans are sub-human simply because they had the gall to be born with their minds matching their bodies. The irony does not make it any more acceptable.

Whether or not it's an empty threat, it's still a death threat. And as has been said several times already, an individual trans person has just as much power to injure or kill an individual cis person as the other way around.

The defence that it's on a "trans radical site" also doesn't hold water. This person has got that tattoo, and wears that jacket, in real life. In public. So yes, it is aimed at other people.

I also can't imagine it being productive. It won't shake up the violent cissexists and transphobes, it won't make them realise what it feels like to be on the receiving end, it'll just antagonise them. And indifferents and allies, it'll drive away.

[The Succubus]

But did you get bullied because you are cis? (Sorry, if I didn't make myself clear, but this was specifically along the cis - trans axis.)

(I got bullied a ton too, for stuff that didn't have to do with me being trans*.)

No but it does it really matter what the reason is though? My name and hair colour were not something I could change at the time, any more than someone else could stop being trans.

It really doesn't matter what the reason is for them hitting and abusing you - the damage and hurt done is still exactly the same. Besides, If we're going to go really deep with this, I'm pretty sure they reason they say they're hitting you and why they're *truly* doing it are often very very different.


Gosh, this thread's taken a very dark turn lately. I miss the cheerful stuff. =(

[Astrella]

I'm not saying I agree or condone the threat itself, I just think it has merits as an educational tool, or even just, to spark a discussion. (This might not be the best place for that, since people here are pretty trans*-aware as it is.)

Oh, and I forgot the most important thing. *HUGS ASTA*

*snip*

I'm not saying it matters why people hurt other people in order to call out on that. But you can't really deny that there's stuff trans people have to take / deal with that cis people don't. (In terms of abuse / and people reactions and such I mean.) (Also, I'm not saying "cis people have it so easy!" One thing to take in account as well is intersectionality, it's pretty pointless to say someone is privileged cause there's so many "lines" over which privelege works. (eg, who is more privileged? A man of colour or a white woman? Ect... Engaging in oppression olympics doens't really achieve anything I think.)

I don't mind dropping the conversation if people would like to; I'd rather have this thread be a safe space.

[Cobra_Ikari]

Late, but I was in class.

I don't agree with the idea of there being harmless threats. The idea of an oppressed minority having the freedom to make threatening statements because "Oh, we don't actually have the power to enforce them" is, IMO, ludicrous. Everyone has the power to, on an individual level, enforce a threat.

[Mina Kobold]

Well this is my child hood you're talking about. I love Yami/Atem, he's like the best superhero ever.

But personally I think looking back one of the earliest signs I can think of that I always have been gay, is that I thought that there was something between Richy and Ash, as well as Sparky and Pikachu. I have an extended theory that developed since then.

Richy is gay for Ash, and Ash is bi but has stronger feelings for Misty(feelings that he forgot when the producers gave him some Railroad-ium at the end of season five). This is the character I have most wanted a return for, but I only got like two episodes in Jhoto.

Also, Pikachu and Sparky are gay lovers. This explains Pikachu's shyness around Buneary in the God-awful first season of Diamond and Pearl.

Hey, that was my childhood first! Get your own. :b

I think I remember feeling that kind of vibe between Ash and Richy, but I didn't think about it much.
As for Buneary...we used to call Lopunny "the Playboy Pokemon".

Can I join the childhood clubie too? I watched Pokémon too! Never saw anything realtionship subtext in it, but I watched it!

Only read the manga of Yu-Gi-Oh and watched GX, though. Our favourite Pharao was quite an interesting anti-hero at the start, although very disproportionate at times. :3

I don't know right now. This pretty much ruined my day. She apologized, and we're still good friends. We were beforehand, and we are after.

The worst part, when it comes to women, is I'm terrible at that stuff. I had to actually be taught social cues (Asperger's), so if a girl is flirting with me, I'm oblivious. I can't exactly ask to be taught these cues, either, because my friends at my school do one of two things:

A. They have Asperger's Syndrome too, so it's a lost cause.

B. They say "it just comes to you, y'know?" (NO, I DON'T! )

On a lighter note, I'm good friends with the Vice-Principal, to the point where casual talks about Valve games is norm. We're both huge fans of Half Life, Left 4 Dead, and other stuff. Point is, he allows me one visit per month to see all my old friends, so that's going to be my Friday.

Yes, my VP is letting me skip half of my day to go to my other school.

And the funny thing is, I'm not really all that bummed about earlier today. It hurts, yes, but I'm trying to move past it. I've always thought a hundred moves ahead, and I'm certainly thinking about those moves now.

I believe I actually learnt the cues through television and eavesdropping, but I can sympathise. I am quite honestly terrible at saying what I intend. I keep hurting people instead of helping. ;_;

I tend to be on good footing with my teachers as well, but that stem from being a walking encyclopedia who prioritised peer skills below random facts about turtles. :3

Never really did much with being diagnosed, though. It won't help me be less of a cloudcuckoolander and creates even greater risks of someone getting harmed by me talking. Statistics tell me to be asocial, stareit!

Vice-Principal sounds quite amazing, though. You win this time, Lord Socialhat, but I shall show you!

And I've made an ass out of myself over at Natalie's. Please don't read the comments for the last two threads. I have come to the conclusion that I should never argue politics.

Tempted. So very tempted. @_@

I reached that conclusion when I realised it usually ends like this:

Yours Koboldy: All glory to Great Socialist Empire! o_o
Opponent: But-Wha? Hu-MyGODS!
*Drags panicking opponent away to be Re-educated by ice cream.*

Which doesn't really work when you can't reach people. >_>

[Astrella]

Late, but I was in class.

I don't agree with the idea of there being harmless threats. The idea of an oppressed minority having the freedom to make threatening statements because "Oh, we don't actually have the power to enforce them" is, IMO, ludicrous. Everyone has the power to, on an individual level, enforce a threat.

But not on a group level. And as I said, the whole point about the phrase isn't whether it's a threat or not (because it very much is one), but rather the dozens reasons I gave earlier.

[Heliomance]

But not on a group level.

How is that relevant? It's an individual who has the tattoo and jacket, and that individual could, if he(?) so desired, carry out that threat on any individual cis person.