Locate city bomb?

[Vegan Zombie]

Hey playgrounders,

I've heard a few time about this "locate city" bomb but I have no clue how it works or can be achieved. Would anybody be able to shed some light on this for me. Thanks in advance!

[aldeayeah]

Stacking damaging metamagic (particularly Explosive Spell) on a divination spell with a very large area of effect (particularly Locate City).

[SirFredgar]

I also beleive the Locate City Bomb was debunked, and doesn't work by RAW. I'm attempting to locate the original thread to verify

[Zonugal]

Typically I think it goes something like:

locate city (RoD) - 10 mile/level radius, finds a city

1. apply snowcasting (FB) - spell now has the cold descriptor
2. apply flash frost feat (PHB2) - spell now deals 2 points of cold damage to all in area (and makes area slippery but we don't care about that)
3. apply energy substitution (electricity) (CArc) - spell now deals electricity damge
4. apply born of three thunders (CArc) - spell deals half electric, half sonic, but what is important is that it now requires a reflex save, allowing us to...
5. apply explosive spell (CArc) - all creatures/things in area that fail their reflex saves are shunted to the outside of the area of effect (10 miles/level) and take 1d6 damage per 10' moved!

voila, you have just nuked an entire kingdom with a 4th level spell slot, a handful of snow and a silly combination of feats. Of course you have to be creative as well to not get shunted 200 miles yourself, or end up with a thousand tons of debris and bodies on top of you.

[Calanon]

Take Locate City (range: 10 miles/level), apply Snowcasting (making it [cold]), apply Flash Frost (adding 2 cold damage to everything in the area), apply Energy Substitution to make it electric, apply Born of the Three Thunders to change damage type and add a reflex save to avoid half the damage, then apply Explosive Spell, forcing a Reflex save vs being blasted to the edge of the area, taking 1d6 of damage per 10 feet traveled (so, at the center, it's 5280d6/level of falling damage).

Thank you T.V Trope

[The Mentalist]

You also add Fell Drain (Libris Mortis) to give everything a negative level and raise 80% of the populace as Wights 24 hours later. (This one works even without the much debated Explosive Spell and radius of a 10 mile/level circle)

[Darth Stabber]

To my knowledge it has not been disputed as being illegal by RAW. Now most GMs will rule that illegal. Personally, if a player took all of those otherwise subpar feats, I would let them do it.

To make the spell even scarier add either fell animate or fell drain. Fell animate will make all of the victims into zombies. Fell drain will give all of the victims a negative level, which means if they die (which most will) you will get a massive number of wights.

[SirFredgar]

You also add Fell Drain (Libris Mortis) to give everything a negative level and raise 80% of the populace as Wights 24 hours later. (This one works even without the much debated Explosive Spell and radius of a 10 mile/level circle)

Yeah, as he mentioned here the main contention is that Locate City has a circle radius rather then a sphere. This means the "closest" edge explosive spell could force you to would be directly above/below the circle... meaning you are tossed up a tiny bit, and may/may not take falling damage (depending on the dm, I suppose).

But as the Mentalist points out.. the fell drain version still works, as long as you are willing to build a character around this trick.

Edit: And the Explosive spell might still be valid too, depending on specifc GM, cause it's still a bit hazy with it's 2d vs 3d shape because of certain spell text references.

[Cog]

Even the necromantic version doesn't work. Flash Frost requires that the spell you apply it to affect an area, while Locate City merely has an area that it reveals information regarding.

[Darth Stabber]

Even the necromantic version doesn't work. Flash Frost requires that the spell you apply it to affect an area, while Locate City merely has an area that it reveals information regarding.

Hairs, you're splitting them.

[OracleofSilence]

Yeah, i seem to recall that explosive spell does not work. however, Locate City w/Arcane Thesis/Snowcasting/Flashfrost/Fell Drain/Invisible Spell means that you get to start the Wightpocalypse at 7th level out of a 1st level spell. a whole damn lot of times

[Calanon]

You also add Fell Drain (Libris Mortis) to give everything a negative level and raise 80% of the populace as Wights 24 hours later. (This one works even without the much debated Explosive Spell and radius of a 10 mile/level circle)

The locate city bomb trick matter as well be a spell in its own league... The Fell version is more or less a DMs worst nightmare... unless there is a campaign set around a Wizard being a douche enough to use it...

[SirFredgar]

Even the necromantic version doesn't work. Flash Frost requires that the spell you apply it to affect an area, while Locate City merely has an area that it reveals information regarding.

How do you differenciate? Area: (something) in it's spell text was all it needed to have to qualify. Locate City does have an Area entry.

If there is a difference between having an area, and affecting an area, I'd really like to see an example of a spell demonstrating that.

[Darth Stabber]

The locate city bomb trick matter as well be a spell in its own league... The Fell version is more or less a DMs worst nightmare... unless there is a campaign set around a Wizard being a douche enough to use it...

DM's worst nightmare, or DM's awesome plot device?

[Calanon]

DM's worst nightmare, or DM's awesome plot device?

Hmm... could be a little bit of both

Could be worse! It could be an EXPLOSIVE Fell Draining tactical nuke

[The Mentalist]

Hmm... could be a little bit of both

Could be worse! It could be an EXPLOSIVE Fell Draining tactical nuke

It's official, Calanon has hacked my computer and is reading my campaign notes.... ABORT! ABORT! ABORT!

[Vegan Zombie]

Whoa thanks for all the quick replies guys! My BBEG in my next campaign is going to use this to Nike a city and start a war

[Calanon]

It's official, Calanon has hacked my computer and is reading my campaign notes.... ABORT! ABORT! ABORT!

Thank god for that blue text >_> a locate city nuclear explosion that would ravage the poor citizens of Ravenholme... Hmm... Orcus is pleased...

[SirFredgar]

Oh yeah, This is why the explosive spell version doesn't work

Exlosive spell can be applied only to spells that allow Reflex saves and affect an area(a cone, cylinder, line or burst).

Circle is not listed.

Your Welcome.

[Hecuba]

Oh yeah, This is why the explosive spell version doesn't work

Circle is not listed.

Your Welcome.

Dang, ninja-ed while I logged in.

But yeah, the issue with explosive spell come down to if you read the given list as exhaustive or not.

It's enough that the general consensus is that there are better options, such as the Fell Drain version. Or Wounding Spell, if you want the low-level NPCs to bleed to death.

[demigodus]

Whoa thanks for all the quick replies guys! My BBEG in my next campaign is going to use this to Nike a city and start a war

Nike a city? Is there a metamagic for making everyone in the area of effect wear a certain brand of shoes?

[SirFredgar]

Dang, ninja-ed while I logged in.

But yeah, the issue with explosive spell come down to if you read the given list as exhaustive or not.

It's enough that the general consensus is that there are better options, such as the Fell Drain version. Or Wounding Spell, if you want the low-level NPCs to bleed to death.

Yes, and they are less feat intensive then going to Energy Addmixture, Explosive Spell, Born of three thunders route.

[Vegan Zombie]

Nike a city? Is there a metamagic for making everyone in the area of effect wear a certain brand of shoes?

The auto correct on my phone decided Nike was more appropriate than nuke I'm afraid

[CodeRed]

Oh yeah, This is why the explosive spell version doesn't work (a cone, cylinder, line or burst).


Circle is not listed.

Your Welcome.

It very may well. Expressio unius est exclusio alterius is the principle in law which states that expression of one thing excludes everything else. Still it is not an absolute. There is room for an argument that the list there is merely for example and not exhaustive or exclusive. Those 4 types of AoEs aren't all of them as circle clearly exists with Locate City. Especially since Cityscape came out two years after Complete Arcane may mean that the authors of CA didn't contemplate the future existence of a different area for spell effects.

[SirFredgar]

It very may well. Expressio unius est exclusio alterius is the principle in law which states that expression of one thing excludes everything else. Still it is not an absolute. There is room for an argument that the list there is merely for example and not exhaustive or exclusive. Those 4 types of AoEs aren't all of them as circle clearly exists with Locate City. Especially since Cityscape came out two years after Complete Arcane may mean that the authors of CA didn't contemplate the future existence of a different area for spell effects.

Yes, you've nailed the fundamentals of the arguement for the camp that still thinks it's explosive spell version works. And never did I state that that a circle wasn't an area, but merely the feat explosive spell specifically calls out those areas.

As you've stated, there is a time difference between the publication of the two sourcebooks so that (maybe) it wasn't accounted for. However, this strays from RAW and into RAI.

I beleive I have given enough evidence to support that Explosive Spell LCB doesn't work by RAW. RAI though, yes, I beleive it should work.

[Madara]

Now if you have an artificer plunk this baby into a wand.. (Could it be eternal wand'ed? Maybe with some meta-magic reducing cheese...)

Too bad its super feat intensive. It'd be fun for an evil PC. As is, just set a party next to something and its as good as toast.

What's the lowest level one could use it?

[Acanous]

Pretty sure Locate City counts as a burst.

[grarrrg]

Nike a city? Is there a metamagic for making everyone in the area of effect wear a certain brand of shoes?

Evil Wizard Plan:
(super-mega-ultra-top-secret HEROS STAY OUT)
Step 1: Acquire many levels of spellcasting class.
Step 2: Use those levels to acquire many Metamagic Feats.
Step 3: Blackmail kingdom(s) with threats of MASS DESHOECTION!
Step 4: If said kingdom(s) do not give in to demands, then cast "Footwear City" spell.
Step 5: ????
Step 6: PROFIT!

[MesiDoomstalker]

Evil Wizard Plan:
(super-mega-ultra-top-secret HEROS STAY OUT)
Step 1: Acquire many levels of spellcasting class.
Step 2: Use those levels to acquire many Metamagic Feats.
Step 3: Blackmail kingdom(s) with threats of MASS DESHOECTION!
Step 4: If said kingdom(s) do not give in to demands, then cast "Footwear City" spell.
Step 5: ????
Step 6: PROFIT!

I know what step 5 is. Offer to buy the excess shoes in bulk and go to a different city and sell the shoes at a lower than normal price (but still greater than what you paid for them). Insta-profit.

[Q'telun]

I may have to convince the spell-caster of a game I'm running to do this. Good thing its an evil campaign, she won't take much convincing.