Habits that kill fun in a session.

[Lhurgyof]

Bonus points if Mr Elite Critic player does not know the first thing about optimization.

Oh my god. THIS!

Or the guy that brags about his awesome fighter/ranger and how powerful he is... When I build a monk that straight out-dos him.

[Viszla]

An addendum: Players who knowingly make a character that isn't going to work with other players characters.

Real example: "You know I'm thinking of playing a Kel-Dor" "You're going to have to change your character, I'm making a wookie that violently hates Kel-Dor"

This. One of my players in the SWSE game I'm about to run wants to have it be a part of his character background that he's a racist towards a certain species. Thinking this would be fairly appropriate for my campaign, seeing as I'm having my players build all evil characters, I OK'd it and asked him what species he had in mind. Then, knowing that two (possibly three) other PCs in the five (possibly six) player party were Human, and knowing that Humans were the single most populous species in the Star Wars galaxy, having no real homeworld of their own, and were therefore going to be the most common species of the NPCs the party would encounter, he wanted to hate all Humans, and have his character be irresistably compelled to make racist comments against them whenever meeting a new Human or whenever he heard a comment or opinion from a Human he knew.

Luckily, I avoided this problem by pointing out that a level six Fosh skillmonkey with levels in scout and scoundrel only, would probably not survive that kind of extended behavior in a party with a Human Sith Lord, an incredibly wealthy and powerful Human senator from Alderaan (Always accompanied by his HK-50 "protocol" droid), and a Human weapons specialist, not to mention all the NPC Humans he would meet throughout the galaxy, some of which would inevitably turn out to have heroic levels, or even be heroic characters, as well as some being higher level than him and the party (half of which might not help him survive because of his racism).

He then settled on a Discovery destiny, in which I decided to allow him to find a new world in the Unknown Regions with a fairly isolationist indigenous population, where most if not all of said species never left their homeworld. Then, if the Fosh decided he hated that species, I would allow him to take a Construction destiny to make a superweapon or station to ravage and/or destroy the planet. He agreed, and I now have a rather convenient long-term goal for him, if not the whole party.

[Hawriel]

electronics at the table.

Gameboys, PSP. cell phones, laptops (that are not used for gaming needs), TV, or what ever.

Put the damn thing down and pay attention. Dont start watching videos or playing other games when at the gaming table.

[Titanium Fox]

electronics at the table.

Gameboys, PSP. cell phones, laptops (that are not used for gaming needs), TV, or what ever.

Put the damn thing down and pay attention. Dont start watching videos or playing other games when at the gaming table.

THANK. YOU. When I used to play at my college, I worked in IT Services as well and we use MAC Address filtering. Last time I caught someone reading Manga online at the table, I opened up the web browser on my PC and cut his internet permissions.

10 seconds later.

*Click* ... *Clickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclick* ... *Slam* What the ****?!

[Choco]

Last time I caught someone reading Manga online at the table, I opened up the web browser on my PC and cut his internet permissions.

That is just so deliciously evil.

I admit I am guilty of this, but only under a certain DM who lets the party split up all the time and then spends 1-2 hours on each of their solo adventures. In a group of 6 players where you are #5 on the list, what else ya gonna do for all those hours? I have brought this issue to his attention as well, cause I hate being passive-aggressive (unless it is really funny).

That being said, I had someone cut off my internet once. Luckily I have Starcraft insalled on my thumbdrive, and next time I saved enough material to read onto my hard drive to keep me occupied the entire time. Someone being more occupied with their electronics than the game means either that the game is not all that interesting to them, or they are just incapable of concentrating (a growing problem among my generation and the one right after it, likely caused by all the countless little diversions...). I guess my point is that cutting off the electronics wont actually solve the problem, and they will find other (often more annoying) ways to relieve their boredom. Instead, I use them as a gauge.

As DM, when I see players starting to look at their electronics more and more often, I take that to mean that they are bored. Knowing this, I can then throw some curveball and spice things up. On the flipside, I know everyone is enjoying themselves when they are all paying attention. I LIKE distracting technology for this reason, because even though they for some reason never admit they are bored to my face no matter how much I beg them to tell me the truth, their subconscious actions reveal the truth. I don't have to ask them what parts of my DM'ing they like and don't like, I can figure it out myself based on how long the smartphones are out. Even those with the concentration abilities of a newborn monkey phase out noticeably less when they are really having fun (though those people still do piss me off, mostly because I in general have little patience for that sort of thing (I'm trying to work on that..)).

That actually leads nicely into some on-topic stuff!

Players who will not tell you the truth about your DM'ing, then talk about it behind your back-No matter how many times you ask, or how many times you say that if they don't tell you what they don't like then you will not know to stop doing it, these players refuse to bring any gripes to your attention. They always tell you that you are doing just fine, they were just tired, etc. Then soon as they think you gone, they talk amongst themselves about how you suck at <x> and <y>. Seriously people, unless you tell that to the ONE person who can change it, IT WILL NEVER GET BETTER!

[Sipex]

Players who will not tell you the truth about your DM'ing, then talk about it behind your back-No matter how many times you ask, or how many times you say that if they don't tell you what they don't like then you will not know to stop doing it, these players refuse to bring any gripes to your attention. They always tell you that you are doing just fine, they were just tired, etc. Then soon as they think you gone, they talk amongst themselves about how you suck at <x> and <y>. Seriously people, unless you tell that to the ONE person who can change it, IT WILL NEVER GET BETTER!

THIS

SO MANY TIMES THIS.

IT'S LIKE PULLING TEETH IT IS.

[Titanium Fox]

I mean don't get me wrong. This was a habitual problem. We'd met every week for the past nine months at that point, and it was the finale. He was INCAPABLE of concentrating. No matter what I did. For the love of heck, I did his PERSONAL BACKSTORY QUEST and he still paid attention to the electronics.

[Choco]

I mean don't get me wrong. This was a habitual problem. We'd met every week for the past nine months at that point, and it was the finale. He was INCAPABLE of concentrating. No matter what I did. For the love of heck, I did his PERSONAL BACKSTORY QUEST and he still paid attention to the electronics.

Oh yeah, those people do piss me off something awful. I just realized that cutting them off of their diversion doesn't help any, and only makes it worse as they occupy themselves doing progressively more disruptive things. People like that need intense behavioral therapy and/or medication to get them to stop. So I just kinda gave up and let them do their thing, cause there are players at the table actually paying attention that I can be providing fun for instead.

Though I should apologize, I can see now how that could be taken bad. I was mostly just mentioning how I personally have been on both sides and how I try to use it to my advantage.

[Titanium Fox]

Oh yeah. If the party splits and I'm not involved, I'll do the same thing. It doesn't affect me or my character, and hell, my character wouldn't know what happened IC anyways. Puts another barrier in the way of meta-gaming in my opinion.

[Choco]

Oh yeah. If the party splits and I'm not involved, I'll do the same thing. It doesn't affect me or my character, and hell, my character wouldn't know what happened IC anyways. Puts another barrier in the way of meta-gaming in my opinion.

Dude, that is actually the EXACT reason I use! If my character is not there, I usually go out of my way to not pay attention, just to make the other players RP their characters filling me in later.

[Hazzardevil]

When you play with a DM who Railroads like you wouldn't belive, tells you that you are fighting a room full of 1 hp minoins and then complains you cut them down easily.

Heres the only game I ever did with him.

Spoiler

Show

DM is Rob
Other player is Alex, he's a ranger,
I'm playing as an attempt to gish a cleric.

Rob:
You meet an old man who's lost his stick. You agree to help him find it.
After many days and many nights you find a cave of kobolds with the stick in the cave.

You go into the first room and find a room full of goblins, their all minoins.

Alex: But you said it was a cavern full of Kobolds?

Me: Let's see if the RUmours about how a combat of levev appropriate stuff is true.

Rob: Kobolds move forward, one attack you.
[rolls dice, one at a time, it was painful]

Me: I move backwards into the corrider we came down.

Rob: Door slams shut behind you.

Me: I use X,

[I go to roll the dice, Rob stops me]

Rob: IT instantly hits them and kills them they have 1 hp.

Alex: I use Y
[same again]

Repeat for 5 minutes.

Me: Why can't we go to higher levels where we don't have combats that give satisfaction?

Rob: Because I say so.

Alex: We grab the stick and go back the man.

Rob: No you don't it's not in the room.

Me: Next room, please be a boss fight, please be a boss fight.

Rob: Room full of Kobolds.

[keep going for 15 minutes]

Rob: You find the stick, a plus 2 rapier and 10 gold.

[Me and alex stare at eachother]

Me: I don't have a magic weapon,

Alex: My bows's out of Ammo.

Rob: You go back to the man and give him the stick.

Me: I stab him

Rob: He's an epic level God in disguise.

Me: I stat myself, I hit, I die.

Rob: A cleric Correlon revives you, (Note: I'm a cleric of Grummsh)

I jump off a cliff.

Game carries on with me trying to kill mself, same goes with Alex and the game sucks.

[Hiro Protagonest]

When you play with a DM who Railroads like you wouldn't belive, tells you that you are fighting a room full of 1 hp minoins and then complains you cut them down easily.

Heres the only game I ever did with him.

Spoiler

Show

DM is Rob
Other player is Alex, he's a ranger,
I'm playing as an attempt to gish a cleric.

Rob:
You meet an old man who's lost his stick. You agree to help him find it.
After many days and many nights you find a cave of kobolds with the stick in the cave.

You go into the first room and find a room full of goblins, their all minoins.

Alex: But you said it was a cavern full of Kobolds?

Me: Let's see if the RUmours about how a combat of levev appropriate stuff is true.

Rob: Kobolds move forward, one attack you.
[rolls dice, one at a time, it was painful]

Me: I move backwards into the corrider we came down.

Rob: Door slams shut behind you.

Me: I use X,

[I go to roll the dice, Rob stops me]

Rob: IT instantly hits them and kills them they have 1 hp.

Alex: I use Y
[same again]

Repeat for 5 minutes.

Me: Why can't we go to higher levels where we don't have combats that give satisfaction?

Rob: Because I say so.

Alex: We grab the stick and go back the man.

Rob: No you don't it's not in the room.

Me: Next room, please be a boss fight, please be a boss fight.

Rob: Room full of Kobolds.

[keep going for 15 minutes]

Rob: You find the stick, a plus 2 rapier and 10 gold.

[Me and alex stare at eachother]

Me: I don't have a magic weapon,

Alex: My bows's out of Ammo.

Rob: You go back to the man and give him the stick.

Me: I stab him

Rob: He's an epic level God in disguise.

Me: I stat myself, I hit, I die.

Rob: A cleric Correlon revives you, (Note: I'm a cleric of Grummsh)

I jump off a cliff.

Game carries on with me trying to kill mself, same goes with Alex and the game sucks.

Please say you quit.

[Combat Reflexes]

When you play with a DM who Railroads like you wouldn't belive, tells you that you are fighting a room full of 1 hp minoins and then complains you cut them down easily.

Heres the only game I ever did with him.

Spoiler

Show

DM is Rob
Other player is Alex, he's a ranger,
I'm playing as an attempt to gish a cleric.

Rob:
You meet an old man who's lost his stick. You agree to help him find it.
After many days and many nights you find a cave of kobolds with the stick in the cave.

You go into the first room and find a room full of goblins, their all minoins.

Alex: But you said it was a cavern full of Kobolds?

Me: Let's see if the RUmours about how a combat of levev appropriate stuff is true.

Rob: Kobolds move forward, one attack you.
[rolls dice, one at a time, it was painful]

Me: I move backwards into the corrider we came down.

Rob: Door slams shut behind you.

Me: I use X,

[I go to roll the dice, Rob stops me]

Rob: IT instantly hits them and kills them they have 1 hp.

Alex: I use Y
[same again]

Repeat for 5 minutes.

Me: Why can't we go to higher levels where we don't have combats that give satisfaction?

Rob: Because I say so.

Alex: We grab the stick and go back the man.

Rob: No you don't it's not in the room.

Me: Next room, please be a boss fight, please be a boss fight.

Rob: Room full of Kobolds.

[keep going for 15 minutes]

Rob: You find the stick, a plus 2 rapier and 10 gold.

[Me and alex stare at eachother]

Me: I don't have a magic weapon,

Alex: My bows's out of Ammo.

Rob: You go back to the man and give him the stick.

Me: I stab him

Rob: He's an epic level God in disguise.

Me: I stat myself, I hit, I die.

Rob: A cleric Correlon revives you, (Note: I'm a cleric of Grummsh)

I jump off a cliff.

Game carries on with me trying to kill mself, same goes with Alex and the game sucks.

Find. New. DM.
Give Rob a seat as a player and show him how it's done!
Alternatively, point him to one of the thousands of online how-to-DM guides.

[Silus]

Mr. No Meta information. Ever. or/aka Mr. Tries to sneak one past the DM

Guy in my previous group did this. Tried to be all sneaky and clever, slipping things under the radar to spring on us at the worst moments (500 Gold, multi-use magic item that summons a Large Monstrous Scorpion? Yeah, that's BS right there).

Spend a good ten minutes arguing with the guy to tell us what spell he was casting on another party member (said target had that Vengeance...thing on. Fire Shield when attacked, not sure where it's from). Turned out the spell was Phantasmal Killer (the guy's a backstabby jerkface), but it was like pulling teeth to get the information out of him (and this was when I was DMing).

[Yukitsu]

Mr. No Meta information. Ever. or/aka Mr. Tries to sneak one past the DM

Guy in my previous group did this. Tried to be all sneaky and clever, slipping things under the radar to spring on us at the worst moments (500 Gold, multi-use magic item that summons a Large Monstrous Scorpion? Yeah, that's BS right there).

Spend a good ten minutes arguing with the guy to tell us what spell he was casting on another party member (said target had that Vengeance...thing on. Fire Shield when attacked, not sure where it's from). Turned out the spell was Phantasmal Killer (the guy's a backstabby jerkface), but it was like pulling teeth to get the information out of him (and this was when I was DMing).

I had a player like that. He stopped doing that around me pretty quickly, as when he did, I would ask "did you have that written down?" And when he said "no" I'd say "well, if I didn't know you were preparing that, it fails."

I'm all for players not telling me their plans, but they absolutely have to tell me about the tools they're trying to use.

[Mindfreak]

The class leveling thing is a pet peeve of mine, thankfully got my players to stop it. But what annoys me even more is when the players fudge the dice constently when I'm not looking. Even though I wasn't looking at the time, I still know that it is frigging impossible for you to get 3 natural 20s in a row twice in one day. It's like they can't deal with the fact that they have to take damage, or fail at somethings.

[Dsurion]

Players who will not tell you the truth about your DM'ing, then talk about it behind your back

You mean like half of this thread?

[jguy]

Mr. No meta information ever: Well this one is tricky but I do call fowl on not informing the DM what he buys, but he has no need to tell the party if he doesn't want to. The item you are referring to is the Amber Amulet of Vermin and it is a 1/day item.

In fact I used that exact item to confuse my party and save our butts one time. My character is a ToB character who acts like he is a senile old man while he isn't really that old. He's trying to find out information on who cursed his queen but doesn't want anyone to know in case its used against him. He is physically weak but wins by using every dirty trick in the book he can get his hands on. He once tricked a Full-plate wearing warrior who was attacking us (we were level 1 and I had a +2 to hit) to follow him and pushed him into a gorge and dropped a large rock on him.

He trusts very few people and he acquired the amulet as a means to shore up his weakness of 1-on-1 battles. Why show this Ace in the hole to a party who might turn on him one day?

And for the spell, unless he tells you OOC or you make a high enough spellcraft check, he has no need to tell you what he is casting. He tells the DM what he is casting but that is it. If he is attacking the party then of course he is going to try to keep valuable information from you about spells and abilities because how easy it is to metagame those things.

[Coidzor]

You mean like half of this thread?

Well, yeah, if there was an ability to give GMs feedback half of online roleplaying forum discussions wouldn't happen.

[Silus]

And for the spell, unless he tells you OOC or you make a high enough spellcraft check, he has no need to tell you what he is casting. He tells the DM what he is casting but that is it. If he is attacking the party then of course he is going to try to keep valuable information from you about spells and abilities because how easy it is to metagame those things.

Well the main reason we needed the name of the spell was because the person had this....thing (not sure WHAT it was) that activated when hit/targeted by an offensive spell (which Phantasmal Killer is). He wasn't even telling us OOC until the person that it was being cast on verbally chewed him out about the meta thing (I don't think anyone was opposed to the inter-party killing thing, just the lack of OOC information).

In the future, if someone won't tell me (if I'm DMing) what spell they are casting(whisper, IM, note or otherwise), it fizzles and they lose that spell for the day.

[dsmiles]

Well, yeah, if there was an ability to give GMs feedback half of online roleplaying forum discussions wouldn't happen.

I played under one DM that used to have critique sessions at the end of each gaming session. I hated it.

[The Glyphstone]

I played under one DM that used to have critique sessions at the end of each gaming session. I hated it.

See, now I can't help but imagine Communist-style self-criticism sessions.

[dsmiles]

See, now I can't help but imagine Communist-style self-criticism sessions.

Exactly. ...and some characters to bring it to 10 characters.

[Provengreil]

i'd prefer those than the party calling it quits partway through the campaign because it wasn't exciting enough. this actually happened to me, but in truth I blame another guy: he was late to every meeting but got very angry if we called him on it. however, we needed him to have enough players, so there was nothing we could do. do NOT try to run red hand of doom at 4 hrs/week, and some weeks off, it stagnates.

[navar100]

Players who will not tell you the truth about your DM'ing, then talk about it behind your back-No matter how many times you ask, or how many times you say that if they don't tell you what they don't like then you will not know to stop doing it, these players refuse to bring any gripes to your attention. They always tell you that you are doing just fine, they were just tired, etc. Then soon as they think you gone, they talk amongst themselves about how you suck at <x> and <y>. Seriously people, unless you tell that to the ONE person who can change it, IT WILL NEVER GET BETTER!

Been there. Experienced that. Got the my game is not being played anymore t-shirt.

[Lhurgyof]

Mr. No Meta information. Ever. or/aka Mr. Tries to sneak one past the DM

Guy in my previous group did this. Tried to be all sneaky and clever, slipping things under the radar to spring on us at the worst moments (500 Gold, multi-use magic item that summons a Large Monstrous Scorpion? Yeah, that's BS right there).

Spend a good ten minutes arguing with the guy to tell us what spell he was casting on another party member (said target had that Vengeance...thing on. Fire Shield when attacked, not sure where it's from). Turned out the spell was Phantasmal Killer (the guy's a backstabby jerkface), but it was like pulling teeth to get the information out of him (and this was when I was DMing).

What? A necklace of amber vermin? The only scorpion I know of is HUGE and have fun trying to fit it in a dungeon.

[Combat Reflexes]

The class leveling thing is a pet peeve of mine, thankfully got my players to stop it. But what annoys me even more is when the players fudge the dice constently when I'm not looking. Even though I wasn't looking at the time, I still know that it is frigging impossible for you to get 3 natural 20s in a row twice in one day.

Seconded. I hate it when players try to fudge the dice. I'm so happy my group is mature enoughnow to play fair


ps. the chance of rolling 6 natural 20's is exactly 1/20^6 or 0,000000016. Now ask your player again what he rolled.

[Elm11]

The Head Hunter

A certain type of player - usually the 'munchkin', but often ones who aren't very good and only go for the most obvious of the powerful builds - justifies his every action with a phrase that generally translates as: "My character could kill your character, if I wanted to."

This is their sole method of comparison in any area; the perceived ability to be a superior warrior than everyone else. And they let you know it at every opportunity, usually in depth, at great length and (most annoyingly) repeatedly through the session.

Player 1: "I rolled a 12, does that hit?"
DM: "No, sorry - it's a narrow miss."
Head Hunter: "Whoa, you missed on a 12? That's rubbish, I (and it usually is 'I' rather than 'my character') could have killed it twice over by now!"

Also:

Head Hunter: "I could kill you in, like, 1 round! All I'd have to do is use Feat A, move, use Feat B, roll a 5 or more on a d20, hit you on another 5 or more, then damage is X plus Y times Z with my DEX, STR and CON bonuses added on top... you couldn't take that!"
Player B: "That's nice. But I just asked you to open the door while I cover it with my bow."
Head Hunter: "Yeah, but I could, so you shouldn't tell me what to do!"
Player B: "Fine." *rolls a dice, scores a slightly better-than-average number* "I parry your attack. No damage. At all."
Head Hunter: "......"

The guy I know who plays like this, seems unable to help himself. He even does it while we're playing other games where is a deliberate disadvantage for him to do so. Magic the Gathering for example:

Head Hunter: "I could win this so easily! All I have to do is cast Spell A, tap Creature B, return Card C to my hand and then play Spell D and I'd do it!"
Player A: "I counter that spell."
Player B: "I destroy that creature.
Player C: "I exile that card."
Player A: "I counter that spell. Again."
Head Hunter: "....."

He usually gets his comeuppance at least once per game; I suppose the most annoying part is listening to him rant on about it before it happens!

Ah, the *fun* my party has had dealing with the headhunter in our party. To save you the long version of my uber biased rant, he's an arrogant jerk who constantly creates his characters as rediculously broken and almost utterly useless.

In our current d20 future campaign, he's playing a midget with a bonus of something like +65 to hacking and computer skills (which we're all certain is fudged beyond any semblance of the rules) and despite having the minimum sapient charisma of 3 is insistent on doing absolutely EVERY interaction like a tool. To top this off he thinks himself some kind of super genius inventor, and has tried to use this nonexistent trait to hold party members to ransom before.
The result of his interaction with my ex superpower military cyborg (paraphrased of course, and i'm sure not particularly kindly):

Headhunter: "
If you ever try anything on me at all, you're boned. I've designed a portable EMP system capable of completely shutting down your cyborg circuits, so you're gonna want to start doing as i say if you want to live"

Me:
"Is that so. You're going to want to watch yourself, seeing as most of us are already in more than half a mind to kill you and dump you out the airlock"

Headhunter:
"You don't get it, do you? There's nothing you can do to stop me, punk, and you're gonna learn pretty quickly to appreciate that."

Activates EMP

Headhunter breaking metagame
"Now that he's shut down, i remove all his limbs and-"

Me:
"soo... how'd that work out for you?"

Headhunter:
"My god, you're an idiot. You can't-"

Me:
"I grab the runt by the throat, lift him in the air and begin crushing his windpipe"

DM:
"Headhunter, roll fort"

Headhunter:
"What? This is rediculous, he can't do that, he's been shut down!"

Me:
"I'm a military cyborg constructed to undertake missions during or directly after nuclear strikes of up to 200 megatons, and created by the most technologically advanced faction in the known galaxy. If my systems are capable of withstanding the EMP effect of that strength, then anything you can build or get your hands on is laughable at best. I break the runt's neck"

Dm:
"Time to roll a new character."

This has been the first and only time i've engaged in PvP. Seeing as the guy had spent the entire campaign annoying everyone he possibly could, it turns out i was just the first in line to kill the punk, and just about everyone had a plan for it.

[Choco]

You mean like half of this thread?

Touche!

I personally make sure to mention all the gripes I have to the group in a non-confrontational manner (ex: I noticed <x> is going on, don't you guys think it would be more fun if we didn't do that, or did <y> instead?). Some of them get fixed, the rest I realize are unreasonable requests (as I am the only one in the group bothered by something the rest of them might enjoy) and I have to deal with them. That's why I created a venting thread

Headhunter PvP story.

I love hearing stories like that. Tell me, did he storm out of the room in a rage after that happened? Quit the group?

The Headhunter is made infinitely worse when combined with....

The Untouchable-This player has the DM in his pocket. Usually a family member or very close "friend", this person gets away with ANYTHING, because the DM faces retribution outside of the game if this guy doesn't get his way. If he ever starts PvP and is about to lose, a Deus Ex Machina always saves him and the rest of the party is forced to continue putting up with him... If you are lucky the DM at least tries to mitigate his negative effect on the rest of the party (by not letting him control/kill them), but often doesn't even have the spine to do that.

[Knaight]

ps. the chance of rolling 6 natural 20's is exactly 1/20^6 or 0,000000016. Now ask your player again what he rolled.

This is 6 in a row, what was posited was 3 in a row, twice in one day. The probabilities of that vary, dependent on the total number of dice rolled, but unless the total number of dice rolled is 6 it is significantly higher than that. With a mere 7 total rolls, it is 7 3 times as likely, for instance.

EDIT: Really stupid math error.