Spiderblood Assassin [3.5e Class][PEACH]

[DrewVolker]

I've never seen those rules before. I've saddly not very familiar to the Pathfinder rules. I actually play 3.5e.

So saddly I'm not actually sure how to answer the question.

I see, no problem. Thanks to replying so quickly though.

Edit:
I think since this is meant for pathfinder you should reword it around a bit.
Child of Araneae (Ex): A Spider Blood Assassin generally hunts alone, but by using their instincts they can form a close bond with a medium monstrous spider. This spider is a loyal companion that accompanies the Spider Blood Assassin on his adventures as appropriate for its kind.
This ability functions like the druid animal companion ability (which is part of the Nature Bond class feature), except that the Spider Blood Assassin's effective druid level is equal to his Spider Blood Assassin level – 5. The animal companion possesses half its master's sneak attack dice as well
To select this Assassin Technique you must have at least 6 ranks in Knowledge (Nature).
Also upon reaching tenth level, you can replace your medium monstrous spider companion with a large monstrous spider but your effective druid level is equal to his Spider Blood Assassin level -7. In all other ways the Large Monstrous Spider acts as a Child of Araneae.

Instead of "close bond with a medium monstrous spider", I think it should be "close bond with a giant spider", and instead of "like the druid animal companion ability", "like the druid vermin companion ability from Ultimate Magic". Its the only way you can get a spider companion in the game actually, and has the progression for having a spider companion, so it works perfectly. Also for the large spider part, instead of "replace your medium monstrous spider companion with a large monstrous spider", "choose to have your giant spider grow to the large size category but your effective druid level is equal to your Spider Blood Assassin level -7. In all other ways the large giant spider acts as a Child of Araneae".

Mostly its just name changing, since in pathfinder they call large spiders "Giant Spiders" instead of "Monstrous Spiders", but the way animal companions were handled also changed, instead of just adding bonus HD and things like that, they go off a fixed progression chart based on your "druid level".

Just somethings I noticed.

[masterstalker2]

Well Drew, there is a problem with your spider growing to large size. Large creatures don't fit through most doors.

If something like that were to be added, then the growth of the Child of Araneae would have to be able to be reversed at any time.

Also, I would like to see a telepathic link for the Child of Araneae, though only communication, not sight, as that would be gained by A Thousand Eyes, unless you want to give it to those who take Disciple of Araneae.

[DrewVolker]

Well Drew, there is a problem with your spider growing to large size. Large creatures don't fit through most doors.

If something like that were to be added, then the growth of the Child of Araneae would have to be able to be reversed at any time.

Also, I would like to see a telepathic link for the Child of Araneae, though only communication, not sight, as that would be gained by A Thousand Eyes, unless you want to give it to those who take Disciple of Araneae.

Yes, I am aware of the issues with having a large spider companion, but the option to have it be changed out for one of large size was already listed in the ability. I was just commenting on how it was said, but I would love for there to be an option for the size of your spider companion to change. Maybe even down to a tiny spider that can sit on your shoulder while you are in town perhaps? Maybe limit the size changing to so many times per day but it can stay in any given size for as long as it wants (with the limit it can become being medium or large depending on if you took the additional penalty to your druid level). I also second the telepathic link idea, would be great for pure flavor reasons.

Edit: Another little thing I noticed. Under sneak attack it says "This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every four Spider Blood Assassin levels thereafter." The first increase to sneak attack die is at level 4, which is only 3 levels away. Might want to change it to "This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, 2d6 at 4th level, and increases by 1d6 every four Spider Blood Assassin levels thereafter."
Sorry if I am annoying you (or anyone) with these comments, just thought I should point out anything I notice in a attempt to try to help.
Loving this class even more the more I read over it.

Second Edit: Found another thing that should be reworded for pathfinder.
Unrelenting Grip (Ex): The tiny barbs with allow you ascend walls empowered your grip with other things. A Spider Blood Assassin with this technique gains a bonus to grappling equal to a quarter of his Spider Blood Assassin level.
In addition you can never be disarmed.
Instead of "bonus to grappling equal to a quarter of his Spider Blood Assassin level." it should read "bonus on checks made to grapple a foe and to his Combat Maneuver Defense whenever an opponent tries to grapple him equal to a quarter of his Spider Blood Assassin level."

Third Edit: Found another thing that I think is the same between both 3.5 and pathfinder. The save DC for Widow’s Toxin is Spider Blood Level + con modifier. Iirc isn't the norm for save DC's 10 + 1/2 HD + Ability mod? In the end its the same thing I guess, just thought I'd point it out.

Forth Edit: I am really hoping by this time I am not starting to annoy you, I am honestly just trying to help this class, as I have developed a fondness for it, haha.
Anyway, noticed a few more things. Under weapon finesse it says "In addition it its normal effects" I am guessing that you mean to just say "In addition its normal effects" and the extra it is just a typo.

Also the saving throw for death attack is a bit high. I think you got the 10 + class level + ability mod set up from the assassin prestige class, but the difference between that class and this class is the assassin is a 10 level long prestige, which means at max they can get 20 + ability mod for the saving throw. This class is a 20 level long base class, meaning it can get 30 + ability mod. The standard progression for a save dc is 10 + 1/2 HD or Class level + ability mod. I am not saying you should or have to change it, if that is what you were going for then by all means keep it so, just thought I would point it just in case you didn't catch that.

For web hunter I see you have it saying "Each 5-foot section has 14 hit points, and sheet webs have damage reduction 5/—." I think instead of damage reduction 5 it should be hardness 5. If I am recalling correctly objects have hardness which acts just like damage reduction when someone is attack it or trying to break it. Just a little detail.

Other than what I have said already, I think that is it. Mostly its just changing words around to clear things up or present it in the way that a class would have been if actually put in a book and published. I am seriously looking forward to playing this class.

Oh on a side note, I did have a question about the spider thrall ability.
Could you potentially make your Child of Araneae if you had one a spider thrall? I think the abilities given to a thrall would make a great addition to your Child of Araneae.

Anyway looking forward to hearing back from you.

Last edit I promise :P : I just had an idea for a advanced technique.
Weapon Mastery (Ex): A Spider Blood Assassin who takes this technique gains Weapon Specialization as a bonus feat.

At 14th level the Spider Blood Assassin gains Greater Weapon Specialization as a bonus feat.
A Spider Blood Assassin must have the Weapon Training technique to select this one.

Follow the line set for weapons training, including being 2 levels later than what the fighter can get the feats at (14th instead of 12th).

[Milo v3]

Instead of "close bond with a medium monstrous spider", I think it should be "close bond with a giant spider", and instead of "like the druid animal companion ability", "like the druid vermin companion ability from Ultimate Magic". Its the only way you can get a spider companion in the game actually, and has the progression for having a spider companion, so it works perfectly. Also for the large spider part, instead of "replace your medium monstrous spider companion with a large monstrous spider", "choose to have your giant spider grow to the large size category but your effective druid level is equal to your Spider Blood Assassin level -7. In all other ways the large giant spider acts as a Child of Araneae".

Just somethings I noticed.

Thanks I'll fix it.

Well Drew, there is a problem with your spider growing to large size. Large creatures don't fit through most doors.

That already in the normal Spider Blood Assassin.

If something like that were to be added, then the growth of the Child of Araneae would have to be able to be reversed at any time.

I'm pretty sure that he means that it can happen once. Not at-will.

Also, I would like to see a telepathic link for the Child of Araneae, though only communication, not sight, as that would be gained by A Thousand Eyes, unless you want to give it to those who take Disciple of Araneae.

Interesting idea.

I was just commenting on how it was said, but I would love for there to be an option for the size of your spider companion to change. Maybe even down to a tiny spider that can sit on your shoulder while you are in town perhaps? Maybe limit the size changing to so many times per day but it can stay in any given size for as long as it wants (with the limit it can become being medium or large depending on if you took the additional penalty to your druid level).

Strange idea. I'll think about adding it in.

Edit: Another little thing I noticed. Under sneak attack it says "This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every four Spider Blood Assassin levels thereafter." The first increase to sneak attack die is at level 4, which is only 3 levels away. Might want to change it to "This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, 2d6 at 4th level, and increases by 1d6 every four Spider Blood Assassin levels thereafter."

I'll fix it.

Loving this class even more the more I read over it.

Thanks.

Instead of "bonus to grappling equal to a quarter of his Spider Blood Assassin level." it should read "bonus on checks made to grapple a foe and to his Combat Maneuver Defense whenever an opponent tries to grapple him equal to a quarter of his Spider Blood Assassin level."

I'll fix.

Third Edit: Found another thing that I think is the same between both 3.5 and pathfinder. The save DC for Widow’s Toxin is Spider Blood Level + con modifier. Iirc isn't the norm for save DC's 10 + 1/2 HD + Ability mod? In the end its the same thing I guess, just thought I'd point it out.

By making the Level + Con it is more balanced for players. As it isn't based on HD it makes the Spider Blood Assassin benefit from focusing in the class.

Anyway, noticed a few more things. Under weapon finesse it says "In addition it its normal effects" I am guessing that you mean to just say "In addition its normal effects" and the extra it is just a typo.

I'll fix.

Also the saving throw for death attack is a bit high. I think you got the 10 + class level + ability mod set up from the assassin prestige class, but the difference between that class and this class is the assassin is a 10 level long prestige, which means at max they can get 20 + ability mod for the saving throw. This class is a 20 level long base class, meaning it can get 30 + ability mod. The standard progression for a save dc is 10 + 1/2 HD or Class level + ability mod. I am not saying you should or have to change it, if that is what you were going for then by all means keep it so, just thought I would point it just in case you didn't catch that.

It is the general opinion that the Assassin class is underpowered and its Death Attack is rather weak, so I thought that it would be fine. I might try to scale it back though.

For web hunter I see you have it saying "Each 5-foot section has 14 hit points, and sheet webs have damage reduction 5/—." I think instead of damage reduction 5 it should be hardness 5. If I am recalling correctly objects have hardness which acts just like damage reduction when someone is attack it or trying to break it. Just a little detail.

I'll change it to hardness.

Could you potentially make your Child of Araneae if you had one a spider thrall? I think the abilities given to a thrall would make a great addition to your Child of Araneae.

You can turn your Child of Araneae into a Spider Thrall.

Last edit I promise :P : I just had an idea for a advanced technique.
Weapon Mastery (Ex): A Spider Blood Assassin who takes this technique gains Weapon Specialization as a bonus feat.

At 14th level the Spider Blood Assassin gains Greater Weapon Specialization as a bonus feat.
A Spider Blood Assassin must have the Weapon Training technique to select this one.

Follow the line set for weapons training, including being 2 levels later than what the fighter can get the feats at (14th instead of 12th).

I'll add it in.

Edit:Very sorry for the double post, it was meant to just be a second edit to my previous one, I guess I hit quote instead of edit. I took what was on this post and put it in my previous post, if a mod or admin wants to delete this post I would very much appreciate it.

If you want you could delete that post yourself. Click Edit on your post, at the top of the section it should allow you to delete the post.

Saddly I'm busy today with an essay and the Grab-Bag Competition so the changes likely wont take affect until I'm able to get back home.

[DrewVolker]

Don't worry about getting things changed quickly, I perfectly understand.
I am just glad you are so quick to respond to comments and are willing to work with people to add/change things. Seriously, that is just awesome in a homebrewer.

[masterstalker2]

For the thing about changing the size beyond the medium and large limit, to things like tiny or small, it would probably be under Disciple of Araneae since it would be a more advanced move.
Also, how about the ability to grow the Child of Araneae up to Huge when you get Disciple of Araneae, if your going to get a special spider, may as well make it better than the other Spider Thralls.

[DrewVolker]

For the thing about changing the size beyond the medium and large limit, to things like tiny or small, it would probably be under Disciple of Araneae since it would be a more advanced move.
Also, how about the ability to grow the Child of Araneae up to Huge when you get Disciple of Araneae, if your going to get a special spider, may as well make it better than the other Spider Thralls.

Hmm interesting thought on the huge spider idea.
Normally I would be against letting someone have a huge companion since the bonuses to strength and con would be outrageous, but honestly, the giant spider stats in pathfinder are rather meh at best.
At effective druid level 20 a medium giant spider (the largest they can normally go for companion) has this for a stat line:
Str 16, Dex 21, Con 12, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 2. (With the bonus from animal companion added in) With only a +1 natural armor bonus normally (before adding in the bonus from animal companion).
Kinda meh compared to some other companions, but with the large size bonuses added in its not that bad I guess.

Edit:
Yeah with the changes from medium to large it goes back into good animal companion range.
Stats for a level 20 druid level large spider would be:
Str 24, Dex 19, Con 16, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 2., Natural armor bonus +15 (+3 base, +12 from animal companion advancement). With four points to put in any ability score of your choice along the way (at least one will go into intelligence, because when they are mindless they can't have any skills or feats). I think maybe huge would be over kill, but I don't see why that a large spider companion should have a minus to druid level when you take the advanced technique. I understand you want balance, but having a spider companion with your druid level equal to your assassin level is not gamebreaking. Infact its about par with other companions, especially when you don't have any buffs to cast on them yourself.

On second thought, yeah I'd say maybe keep it at assassin level -3 for the large companion. Its not that big of a deal, a little more balanced, plus anyone who wants to can always take a feat with their dm's permission to give them +3 druid level anyway for animal companion (its from complete adventurer so its dm permission, but I don't see an issue with it).
But it would be nice like I said earlier to have some way to shrink the spider down for while you are in populated/confined areas.

[masterstalker2]

I was thinking that the huge spider companion could be mostly for group transport, and for taking over towns, cities, kingdoms, planes of existence... you know what, mostly transport.

[Milo v3]

DONE!

Also as a side note: You may now have Huge Child of Araneae Spider Thrall which you constantly have telepathy with, all the while you dominate with your free Weapon Specialization and Wall Running and Webswinging.

Also this is making me want to make a spell which Enlarges the size of Monsters...

MWAH HA HA HA HA

EDIT: I have now made a way to have a Colossal Child of Araneae. But it penalizes those with larger Child's of Araneae, unless you want it permanent.

Here is a link to the spell (If you want to comment on the spell, could you please do it on the spells page).

[DrewVolker]

Just looked over the spell milo, and I must say well done. Overall great work.
I've reread over the whole thread to just get a better perspective on how this class has changed since it was made, and I came across an idea that was said that I think might deserve a second look.
Having a set of feats, maybe called "Favored of the Spider Queen" and "Chosen of the Spider Queen" or something along those lines. The lesser version grants you an extra technique, and the greater version grants you an extra advanced technique. Or maybe just one feat that give you an extra technique, but if you pick it on/after level 10 you can also select from advanced techniques?
I know you said you think they got enough already, but I don't see the harm in letting someone who would rather give up a feet to gain more techniques, do so.
Yes in pathfinder feats are as precious as they were in 3.5, but they are still pretty precious.

Just my thoughts on that issue.

Edit: Just relooked over Entropic Disciple, must say that is EXACTLY what I had in mind when I mentioned it, seriously, awesome work. A few things I thought/noticed. Where its telling you what sizes you can change to, up to is one word, I am guessing its a typo. Also the one size up, two sizes down works out perfectly. Makes it so people who keep a medium spider can still get a large one for combat, but out of combat/in town can have down to a tiny sized one on their shoulder.
I think it should be either changed to a non advanced technique though, its not that powerful and I know I would hate to have to wait till level 12 to just be able to make my spider tiny enough that it could go into a town with me. Maybe make it so you have to wait till you have Disciple of Araneae to be able to use it to make your spider larger? That would get rid of the strength/constitution and natural armor bonuses from the size bump up issue until you would have normally be able to do so as the way you first wrote it.

Just some thoughts.

Second Edit: So happy news, I will be playing this class in a pathfinder game coming up and really looking forward to it. I will let you know how it goes and my thoughts on the class after getting to play it in a game. I do hope you consider the feat idea to gain more techniques, because I know I personally would want more than just 10. Don't mind spending feats to get them.

Oh, I did have one quick question. Does the spider blood ability also increase the fort save of the widows toxin ability? Oh and while I mention that ability, I think you should change the save DC to 10 + half spiderblood assassin level + con bonus, because as it stands if you take it early on it will have a very low save dc and if you made it scale based off your sba level it still fits the pathfinder feel of "rewards you for sticking to a base class".

Anyway, looking forward to playing this, thanks again for the awesome class.

[Milo v3]

Just looked over the spell milo, and I must say well done. Overall great work.

Thanks.

I've reread over the whole thread to just get a better perspective on how this class has changed since it was made, and I came across an idea that was said that I think might deserve a second look.
Having a set of feats, maybe called "Favored of the Spider Queen" and "Chosen of the Spider Queen" or something along those lines. The lesser version grants you an extra technique, and the greater version grants you an extra advanced technique. Or maybe just one feat that give you an extra technique, but if you pick it on/after level 10 you can also select from advanced techniques?
I know you said you think they got enough already, but I don't see the harm in letting someone who would rather give up a feet to gain more techniques, do so.

I agree, looking at it now, I would want my character to have a good deal of the Techniques and if your willing to give up a feat I think thats more than fair.

Edit: Just relooked over Entropic Disciple, must say that is EXACTLY what I had in mind when I mentioned it, seriously, awesome work. A few things I thought/noticed. Where its telling you what sizes you can change to, up to is one word, I am guessing its a typo. Also the one size up, two sizes down works out perfectly. Makes it so people who keep a medium spider can still get a large one for combat, but out of combat/in town can have down to a tiny sized one on their shoulder.
I think it should be either changed to a non advanced technique though, its not that powerful and I know I would hate to have to wait till level 12 to just be able to make my spider tiny enough that it could go into a town with me. Maybe make it so you have to wait till you have Disciple of Araneae to be able to use it to make your spider larger? That would get rid of the strength/constitution and natural armor bonuses from the size bump up issue until you would have normally be able to do so as the way you first wrote it

.

I've Edited in the changes.

Second Edit: So happy news, I will be playing this class in a pathfinder game coming up and really looking forward to it. I will let you know how it goes and my thoughts on the class after getting to play it in a game. I do hope you consider the feat idea to gain more techniques, because I know I personally would want more than just 10. Don't mind spending feats to get them.

Sounds great I hope it works well. Also I'm planning on creating a group of feats for my homebrew classes, Spider Blood Assassin among them, Its might take a few days though as some of the feats are for classes that aren't on this site yet. When is the game going to start or has it already?

Oh, I did have one quick question. Does the spider blood ability also increase the fort save of the widows toxin ability? Oh and while I mention that ability, I think you should change the save DC to 10 + half spiderblood assassin level + con bonus, because as it stands if you take it early on it will have a very low save dc and if you made it scale based off your sba level it still fits the pathfinder feel of "rewards you for sticking to a base class".

No Spider Blood effects Widows Toxin as it isn't created by Craft (Alchemy), I've edited it to make it more like pathfinder though.

[DrewVolker]

Sounds great I hope it works well. Also I'm planning on creating a group of feats for my homebrew classes, Spider Blood Assassin among them, Its might take a few days though as some of the feats are for classes that aren't on this site yet. When is the game going to start or has it already?

It started yesterday (since its past midnight for me), and will be going on every sunday to my knowledge. Looking forward to seeing the feats, but don't feel like you need to rush. I am more than willing to wait for anything you make, haha.

[Milo v3]

Here are the Feats of the Web

[masterstalker2]

Drew, I sort of envy you, that campaign I played where I was a Spider Blood Assassin ended after two days because the group didn't enjoy the gamemaster making so many Dr. Who references, which many people haven't seen, though I want to continue the campaign.

I'd be playing the class in a new campaign, except that we are now doing Shadowrun, where I'm the stealth guy, again.

[masterstalker2]

Ok, at some point my group is going to be doing a war that combines a bunch of our campaigns. The war consists of Devils, kobolds (we accidentally killed their ambassador, we didn't know why he was in the dungeon, and I wasn't with that part of the group since we split up for the floor) and the kingdom of wherever we are (it's a kingdom the GM made up).

A while ago, I had to sit out a few sessions so my character could be able to control his Werewolf form (a werewolf pinned me and was stabbed by our samurai, and the werewolf bled into me, don't question it), and this was before I discovered this class, or more likely, before it was made.

I can now turn into a werewolf, which has its own class levels (fighter, while my elf form is a ninja) and feat and attributes.

Should I trade in the ability to turn into a werewolf to trade my levels to become a SBA or keep werewolf form?

[Milo v3]

Any news on how the SBA did during actual play?