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    Default The gods are Liars

    They said they can't influence the world since it was already built to fix the gates.

    But they created entire races into existence post creation!

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Where does it have that specific wording? I thought it was just that they couldn't patch up the gates.
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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Dragon View Post
    Where does it have that specific wording? I thought it was just that they couldn't patch up the gates.
    Here


    It is vauge though. They could influence the threads and create on top of the worlds...But they couldn't fix the rifts.

    The gods are still jerks though. Just send an army of angels to each gate. Especialy when the heroes are up against Xykon.

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by TheZenMaster View Post
    Where is there anything about what the Gods can and cannot do in that strip, short of "they can't remake the world without unmaking this one"?
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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    I think they're analogous to when you get a hole in your jumper:

    You can put a patch over the hole (i.e. seal the gates);

    You can sprinkle live animals into the jumper (i.e. add another race, etc...);

    But to close the hole you'd have to unknit the jumper and start again.

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    So why not patch the hole? Its not like its the UNIVERSE at stake?

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by TheZenMaster View Post
    They said they can't influence the world since it was already built to fix the gates.

    But they created entire races into existence post creation!
    The very threads of reality are what's sealing in the Snarl. That's quite different than adding new races. The fabric of reality are the immutable natural laws. Making a new animal is just mixing genes in a test tube. (in a manner of speaking)

    It's the difference between replacing the entire foundation and frame of a house and adding some new furniture.


    Also, there's no indication in SOD that this occurred in World 2.0. The Snarl didn't strike instantly. The 27 minutes is how long it took for it to destroy the world, not how long that world existed. We're given no indication how long the first world lasted. The creation of the demi human races could have occurred in the creation of the first world, and carried over into the second.
    Last edited by NerfTW; 2012-03-19 at 12:26 PM.

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by TheZenMaster View Post
    So why not patch the hole? Its not like its the UNIVERSE at stake?
    In this extended analogy, the gates ARE the patches

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaros View Post
    In this extended analogy, the gates ARE the patches
    The gates were made by the Order of the Scribble, not the Gods so in the analogy they gave thread and needle to the animals on the jumper and made them patch it.
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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    its like a ship, and the gates are whole in the keel

    theres no way to remove the keel and replace it with a new one yo have to rebuild teh whole ship, but theres nothing stopping you from remaking a banister

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by Anecronwashere View Post
    The gates were made by the Order of the Scribble, not the Gods so in the analogy they gave thread and needle to the animals on the jumper and made them patch it.
    And now there is a giant white shark with a red ant army about to eat the animals and rip up the stitching.

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by TheZenMaster View Post
    And now there is a giant white shark with a red ant army about to eat the animals and rip up the stitching.
    I think we may taking the analogue too far now
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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    If the gods solved all the problems of the world, then there wouldn't be need for PCs.
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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by Porthos View Post
    If the gods solved all the problems of the world, then there wouldn't be need for PCs.
    Instant solution.

    Im serious. Maybe if this was some crappy comic I could complain, but this is OOts.

    Its a great comic and it needs to have SOME motivation.

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by TheZenMaster View Post
    And now there is a giant white shark with a red ant army about to eat the animals and rip up the stitching.
    Have all the Kickstarter donors who get crayon drawings from Rich picked their subjects?

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Hmm. They have an information blackout on the gates. I doubt even their own minions know about the gates. If you're a greater deity, once knowledge exists anywhere outside of your own head, you have to assume that it will be found out. The IFCC knows of the gates only because Redcloak was told about them by the Dark One, and told Xykon, Xykon hired Nale, Nale learned from the OOTS, and then Sabine learned from Nale and told her bosses. If the Dark One hadn't told Redcloak- or if the older gods hadn't told the Dark One initially- Tarquin wouldn't know about the gates, Xykon wouldn't know about the gates, and there would be no threat to the planet.

    So sending an army of angels will ensure that a comparatively massive group of mortals will eventually know about the gates, as individual angels eventually divulge that information one way or another, and it passed on down the food chain, which will pretty much ensure that someone misuses them at some point, anyway, which will mean that the world will be destroyed when the gods step in to remake the prison. At that point, they either have to accept that some evil tyrant will rule the world, or that the world will need to be destroyed and remade.

    The destruction of the world is the worst possible outcome, worse even than Xykon getting control of the gate and making the world a miserable place to live. There's also the possibility that once the jig is up, the gods will all just throw down for control of the gates and the Divine WMDs they represent. Army of angels means army of demons.

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by TheZenMaster View Post
    Instant solution.

    Im serious. Maybe if this was some crappy comic I could complain, but this is OOts.

    Its a great comic and it needs to have SOME motivation.
    Put simply, the Gods are scared. The Snarl can kill them in seconds, so there is NO WAY any of them are going to mess with any part of it directly. They are going to utlize their followers and have them do the work and, if by some chance, the Snarl escapes? They can remake the world from the safety of their homeplane.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Minor SoD spoiler

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    When the gods made the second world they made 2 promises to each other
    1)They wouldn't tell anyone else about the Snarl, hence why The Dark One had to convince hes buddies Rat and Tiamat to inform him after one of his clerics was devoured
    2)They wouldn't influence the world, except through their clerics, which resulted in PCs.


    So the only way the gods could fix the holes without destroying the world is by using their clerics and by extension paladins, which is what they did with the order of the scribble

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by DrBurr View Post
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    2)They wouldn't influence the world, except through their clerics, which resulted in PCs.

    Not quite.

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    They agreed that they can't interfere with each other's lands, except via divine spellcasters, in case something happened in a different god's continent that affected their own. They can do what they want in their own (though they might limit it to prevent internal dissent). It's why Control Weather can have extended effects in Cliffport, but Thor's Might can't increase in speed in Azure City.

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    This is a very interesting question, and it would be great if this were to be answered at some point within the comic. But for that to happen, there would probably need to be at least a few more years of story left to be told.

    ...

    Oh!
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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This is a very interesting question, and it would be great if this were to be answered at some point within the comic. But for that to happen, there would probably need to be at least a few more years of story left to be told.

    ...

    Oh!
    I kinda feel bad in that I don't quite know which question is being addressed.

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by MReav View Post
    Not quite.

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    They agreed that they can't interfere with each other's lands, except via divine spellcasters, in case something happened in a different god's continent that affected their own. They can do what they want in their own (though they might limit it to prevent internal dissent). It's why Control Weather can have extended effects in Cliffport, but Thor's Might can't increase in speed in Azure City.
    Ah yes your right

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by MReav View Post
    I kinda feel bad in that I don't quite know which question is being addressed.
    I also first thought of that. I think the question is "whether or not are the gods liars".

    And I did believe before (and do now believe even more) that Shojos story isn't quite the truth. It's not a complete fictional lie either, but some information is missing or distortet and the right version will quite definitely be told nearer to the end of the comic.

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by MReav View Post
    Not quite.

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    They agreed that they can't interfere with each other's lands, except via divine spellcasters, in case something happened in a different god's continent that affected their own. They can do what they want in their own (though they might limit it to prevent internal dissent). It's why Control Weather can have extended effects in Cliffport, but Thor's Might can't increase in speed in Azure City.
    I'm pretty sure the Thor's Might bit was just a rules joke. The actual D&D spell, Righteous Might, doubles the caster's size (and gives them a few other stats), but just having a larger size doesn't increase your move speed, and dwarves have a base speed of 20 instead of 30 like most humanoids due to short legs.

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by TheZenMaster View Post
    They said they can't influence the world since it was already built to fix the gates.
    "They" didn't say anything of the sort. The person who was speaking was Shojo, and he was narrating what Soon and the rest of his group "learned." How they learned it is not stated. Saying "the gods" said it is speculation on your part.

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by Sethala View Post
    I'm pretty sure the Thor's Might bit was just a rules joke. The actual D&D spell, Righteous Might, doubles the caster's size (and gives them a few other stats), but just having a larger size doesn't increase your move speed, and dwarves have a base speed of 20 instead of 30 like most humanoids due to short legs.
    Control Weather doesn't produce massive shockwaves. It did with Thor's influence. Later we see Tiger growling at Thor and Thor referencing that instance while Durkon wondered why his prayer wasn't answered.

    So it's both a joke about the rules and exposition on how the world was created.

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    And here I thought the Gods Must be Crazy.
    See what I did there?

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by SlyJohnny View Post
    Hmm. They have an information blackout on the gates. I doubt even their own minions know about the gates. If you're a greater deity, once knowledge exists anywhere outside of your own head, you have to assume that it will be found out. The IFCC knows of the gates only because Redcloak was told about them by the Dark One, and told Xykon, Xykon hired Nale, Nale learned from the OOTS, and then Sabine learned from Nale and told her bosses. If the Dark One hadn't told Redcloak- or if the older gods hadn't told the Dark One initially- Tarquin wouldn't know about the gates, Xykon wouldn't know about the gates, and there would be no threat to the planet.

    So sending an army of angels will ensure that a comparatively massive group of mortals will eventually know about the gates, as individual angels eventually divulge that information one way or another, and it passed on down the food chain, which will pretty much ensure that someone misuses them at some point, anyway, which will mean that the world will be destroyed when the gods step in to remake the prison.
    Got it. "Dude, don't flaunt the god-killing abomination."

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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by MReav View Post
    I kinda feel bad in that I don't quite know which question is being addressed.
    Whether or not the gods are lying (about anything) and why they don't just defend the Gates with an army of angels.

    The bit about there being a contradiction between creating people after the world was created was already answered by other posters: there's no contradiction. The world is a planet, people are animals. The gods can make an animal (or a whole race of animals) and put it on a planet without changing the fundamental characteristics of that planet at all. Those animals will then make changes to the planet's surface, but they are not part of the planet. There's no Gaia hypothesis on OOTS-world.
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    Default Re: The gods are Liars

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Whether or not the gods are lying (about anything) and why they don't just defend the Gates with an army of angels.
    My guess is:

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    The gods suffer from a need for secrecy and conflicting personalities. The rifts didn't appear until later, when much of the world had already developed, so they can't just send a legion of angels without a lot of people noticing, nor clear out populated areas that may have developed around the rifts. The gods are also capricious and engage in impulsive, poorly thought out behaviour, and each one would want to defend the Gate their own way (or at least the like aligned ones would contrast the ones outside their own alignment). Basically, the Order of the Scribble conflict except magnified and could potentially empower the Snarl. The only thing they could agree on was not to do anything until they could all agree on something and rely on secrecy for the time being. There are only 5 and an earth sized planet has 5.1×10^8 KM^2 to lose a rift on (though they're lucky there weren't any rifts in or over the ocean... or are there?)

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