World of Tanks IV: We're on Fire!

[Brother Oni]

Taking over from Yana:

WORLD OF TANKS
Thread IV: We're on Fire!

World of Tanks, the game that those of us in this thread love to hate and complain about, yet still return for more, is primarily a MMO style Team Deathmatch where you and 14 teammates take on 15 foes in tanks from multiple countries (China, France, Germany, Japan, UK, US and USSR at present; British, German and US on the XBL version).

Other game modes are available: Encounter (King of the Hill style), Assault (blech) and Historical (country locked teams), but still mostly boil down to killing the other side before they kill you.

The game itself is free to play, but there are pay-to-play options available, namely premium tanks which generate extra credits/experience per battle for that tank and crew and premium accounts which grant extra experience and credits for all tanks and crews in your account (this also applies to its sister game World of Warplanes).

This thread is here for us to rejoice in our victories, cry about our defeats, complain about "Russian bias", speculate about upcoming tanks and complain about SPGs. Though we can also give advice if necessary.

First Thread
Second Thread
Third Thread

Template for Userlist as follows, please also mention your region:

GitP Username - WoT Username

EU Server:

Spoiler

Show

AgentPaper - AgentPaper
AMX - Marandreas
Brother Oni - MarineHK4861
Dada - Scrattlebeard
darksolitaire - LordRoyh
Eldariel - Eldariel
GloatingSwine - GloatingSwine
Golemsvoice - DraufDranDrueber
SanguisAevum - Sanguisaevum

US Server (Unspecified):

Spoiler

Show

Calen - turmacil
Celesyne - Celesyne
Elm11 - Elm11
Erloas - Erloas
Fluff & Napalm - Fluffandnapalm
hayabusa - Sherman_76mm
Janwin - Janwin
Jimor - Jimor
Jonzac - Jonzac
Leon - AzureTerra
mistformsquirrel - mistformsquirrel
otakuryoga - Otakuryoga
Saambell - MajorCactus
Yana - Raltis

US East:

Spoiler

Show

AdmiralCheez - AdmiralCheez
Astral Avenger - TheSojourner
Cdr.Fallout - CommanderFallout
rs2excelsior - PvtSnyder

US West:

Spoiler

Show

J-H - JonathanTX

SEA Server:

Spoiler

Show

Grif- Grif

Xbox Live:

Spoiler

Show

KillianHawkeye - ?
MCerberus - TheMEagle

[Brother Oni]

Thread title is still up for negotiation.

We're on Fire! is currently in the lead with three votes.

Let me know if I've mucked anything up in the title post.

[Grif]

I like how I'm the only SEA player.

[KillianHawkeye]

I have been playing the new Xbox version of this game for the past few days. It only has American, German, and British tanks at present.

[Erloas]

I haven't been playing all that much lately, but I'm just getting my post in to keep track of the thread.

[darksolitaire]

I just recently upgraded Chi-He to Chi-Nu, and that was about it. Neither of the two seems very good. I'll probably start playing again when they'll have premium accounts on discount on EU, or when NA will discount tier 6 premium tanks, which ever comes first.

[SanguisAevum]

As a Good medium tank driver... The chi nu is abysmal. I hate it and am considering free exping the rest of the grind.

Problem is, Gloating has the next one and he says its worse still!

Seems Japanese meds dont get "ok" till the chi ri at T7 (and that allegedly only because of the broken autoloader it gets...)

:(

[mistformsquirrl]

I haven't been playing a whole lot lately myself; but my most recent match (yesterday) was pretty good imo. Did 5000 damage in my M46 and got my 1st Class mastery badge for it. Also my first High Caliber.

Given that I've had a nearly 7000 damage game in that tank, I really have to wonder what Ace Tanker is going to require though - I mean the M46 is awesome, but yikes! <@.@>

[Jonzac]

Did anyone else have their mastery badges for the tanks in their garage get removed? My service record still shows the former mastery level, but I'm getting a slew of mastery badges at a lower level than I currently have. Seems like every game I get at least a Mastery Badge 3 on my Hellcat...over and over and over.

On a side note, my win rate (now almost 6k games) is at 49% up from 48%....good Lord how long that takes.

[AMX]

AFAIK, they just disabled the "did you get this badge already?" check.

[Eldariel]

I haven't been playing a whole lot lately myself; but my most recent match (yesterday) was pretty good imo. Did 5000 damage in my M46 and got my 1st Class mastery badge for it. Also my first High Caliber.

Given that I've had a nearly 7000 damage game in that tank, I really have to wonder what Ace Tanker is going to require though - I mean the M46 is awesome, but yikes! <@.@>

Much depends on if you spot the damage yourself. That's why "mere" 4000+3000 game got the T-54 Ace Tanker; I'd need 8000 ally-spotted damage plus the 3000 spot to do the same. You probably aren't that far off tho.

[GloatingSwine]

Did anyone else have their mastery badges for the tanks in their garage get removed? My service record still shows the former mastery level, but I'm getting a slew of mastery badges at a lower level than I currently have. Seems like every game I get at least a Mastery Badge 3 on my Hellcat...over and over and over.

On a side note, my win rate (now almost 6k games) is at 49% up from 48%....good Lord how long that takes.

It hasn't taken them away, but it now tells you what mastery your score would have gotten on each game.


I am not expecting any more out of the Chi-Ri than out of the preceding two tanks. The autoloader might give it a ghetto-122 but it's the size of an AMX M4 with the armour of a Cromwell, the penetration of a Comet, the camo of a Centurion, and the speed of a KV-1S.

This is not a good combination of factors.

[Leon]

I like how I'm the only SEA player.

Or the only one brave enough to come forth...


Ive not been on a lot myself recently as im not enjoying it solo much atm and Elm11 has been very busy with life, the universe and other things. But every so often i get on and chip away at some of the things im working on or just have some TD fun

[Brother Oni]

That reminds me, do the X-box Live players (all two of you ) want to state their XBL names or does WoT use a separate account system there?

On a separate note, is there ever a tier where you manage to get past all the lemming teams, idiots with no situational awareness or just find people willing to support their team mates?

Recently, I just feel more and more misanthropic after every such game where things go absolutely pear shaped (either that or I'm just becoming a grumpy old bastard).

[SanguisAevum]

On a separate note, is there ever a tier where you manage to get past all the lemming teams, idiots with no situational awareness or just find people willing to support their team mates?

Bwahahaahhahahahaa

In short... No, sorry.

If anything, the idiocy of the average pubbie is MAGNIFIED at higher tiers... because the stakes are higher, the mistakes are punished harder, and your more likely to come up against some of the good players at higher tier... likely platooned with other good players... just waiting for you to be isolated due to your rubbish team mates.

Case in point... Me and Gloating platoon pulled something like an 80% WR the other night... mostly at higher tiers... because clueless muppets are clueless.

(on the flip side... the next night was probably closer to 40% because we got more than our fair share of the scrubs, and there are some levels of idiocy that simply cant be power carried by even two good players)

"Thems the breaks"

[Leon]

One of the worst % Players i have ever seen was driving a Maus and sat in the cap for most of the game bitching

[Brother Oni]

"Thems the breaks"

I guess I'll stay where I am tier-wise then so at least repairs and ammunition are cheaper.

Besides, my WoTLabs stats are looking decidedly abysmal compared to yours and Gloating's:

[Grif]

Or the only one brave enough to come forth...

I lurk enough on the WoT SEA/Asia forums to know that the chances of a playgrounder on the same server is vanishingly small.

Anyway, nowadays I just login into WoT for clan wars.

[SanguisAevum]

I guess I'll stay where I am tier-wise then so at least repairs and ammunition are cheaper.

Besides, my WoTLabs stats are looking decidedly abysmal compared to yours and Gloating's:

Nothing wrong with staying at lower tiers. In fact many higher end players actively encourage newer players to stick to T5 (or there about) in order to get a firm grasp on the game's mechanics before venturing upwards.

This isn't like other MMOs. Bigger tanks do not mean better tanks.

Dont worry about your stats. Worry about learning how to play well... Your stats will follow and reflect your improvement. (Besides.. They are about average... Believe me... You could be MUCH worse!)

[Brother Oni]

In fact many higher end players actively encourage newer players to stick to T5 (or there about) in order to get a firm grasp on the game's mechanics before venturing upwards.

Unfortunately I've been attempting to grasp them for around a year now (at least that's about when I hit Tier 5 and decided to branch out).

This isn't like other MMOs. Bigger tanks do not mean better tanks.

I used to play Eve Online - I know bigger isn't better.

Unless it's a Russian 122mm.

[GloatingSwine]

Bigger tanks do mean better tanks. (Unless it's a Chi-Ri, that's p. big)

But everyone else has better tanks as well so going up tiers is just running to stay still.

(on the flip side... the next night was probably closer to 40% because we got more than our fair share of the scrubs, and there are some levels of idiocy that simply cant be power carried by even two good players)

I particularly liked being called a camper when I had in fact travelled further from the base than literally anyone else on the team.

Minimap? Wot dat?

[otakuryoga]

I particularly liked being called a camper when I had in fact travelled further from the base than literally anyone else on the team.

Minimap? Wot dat?

but did you get to that spot further from the base than anyone else and then STAY THERE?

if so you are a camper

[Janwin]

Look, just because I had pitched a tent behind that bush that I was hiding in and was in the process of cooking smores doesn't mean anything.

You can't prove anything!

[GloatingSwine]

I originally did this for another forum, but I'm crossposting it here because some of you might find it elucidating. I'm spoilering this because it's mega image heavy. It's a classic lemmingtrain story and may be of particular interest if you want to see terrain in action because this game is all about use of terrain on my part.

The replay is here if you want to watch the whole thing, but the following will also have commentary that shows why I did some of the things I did.

On with the breakdown

Spoiler:

Show

Countdown is still going and the enemy Birch Gun is already unhappy, from the team balance you can see why, our team has a higher weight of better players and they're all clustered at the top of the tier list. (I checked the win chance on this replay, it would have been 68%). Little does he know how much chance his team has.

So the game starts and I go to the left flank because that's where you go on Steppes if you have gun depression and/or are a medium tank.



Unfortunately, I appear to be alone here. Yep, half our team is lemmingtrain, the other half can't bear to leave the base circle because it's just so shiny. I tuck into my favourite starting spot on this flank, this spot gives you a decent line of fire down the map and lets even a relatively large tank go completely turret down where needed. If you have tanks in C8 you also get BVR shots on tanks passing F9/F0. This spot is one of the key reasons why Steppes had to be rebalanced, and it's still a good place to start if you spawn north.

As I'm alone on this flank I don't advance, and it's a good thing I didn't.



Suddenly, KV-1S. I snap a shot at his turret without really aiming (a quick note on crosshair, this is Jimbo's Crosshair, it has a second ring at half the diameter of the full reticle, due to the way the standard deviation on accuracy works 70% of shots will go there), this shot does nothing, I don't stay exposed, I duck down behind the ridge, he goes behind the rock.



Then he grows a friend.



Where I was sitting is good at shooting tanks that can't advance, but with nothing in front of me there's nothing stopping them just coming around the side, I am not going to be useful there. I leave.

Note the hellcat going the wrong way. Two minutes ago that might have been the right way, now it's not.



On my way back I get an opportunity to pick off a Lee. No-one driving a Lee is enjoying themselves, so put them out of their misery so they can go back and choose a better tank.



My first stop is this ridge at the near end of the base, it's not great cover but for a smallish tank it's enough to go hull down against that KV-1S.



Not that one that went around though, so I retreat further.



All the way around here, in fact. Note that now I am now effectively behind the cap circle. As previously discussed the cap circle is amazingly shiny and this will prove useful in the minutes to come.



The Hellcat who took up the position I originally retreated from dies. He put two shots in which is a thing, but it's literally a fraction of the potential of the Hellcat because he took a bad position.



Nashorn goes next, he had given up a reasonable position and gone into a bad one.

It is now functionally me vs. two KV-1Ss at our base.



I snap a shot out against this one as he comes over the ridge, chipping away a bit of health.



I moved back down into cover after my snap shot, the lemmingtrain looks like it's doing OK, right?



I actually carry on around the south of my ridge, because there were two KV-1S and one of them looked like he might come that way, and I don't want to get surprised, I try and spot him coming but see nothing, so I take some opportunist shots at the enemy Nashorns, nothing goes in.



Whilst I'm doing that, a funny red bar appears at the top of the screen, after a moment's consternation at this frightening new UI element I realise the implications, one of the KV-1S has succumbed to the lure of the shiny circle and is capping, I peek the ridge, can't get a good angle, so I reposition to where these bushes are for the shallower dip.



He's spotted an arty though, and is looking the wrong way. That gives me ample opportunity to put one into his side.



Note I didn't actually know whether he'd fired, so I back off. Also I notice his friend has appeared.



I sneak another one at his lower plate.



Then I leave. He was coming towards where I was shooting him from, so let's not be there any more, eh? I go round to the other edge of the ridge.



I come around and get this side profile, try and get clever and shoot for the drive wheel but the shot goes wide and bounces off his front armour. However, he makes a terrible error, he fires at something.

He has a 13 second reload, that means I can take at least four shots before he reloads.




So he's dead and the arty has joined in against the other one. The other KV-1S fired as well, so I have a little more time.



I put one into him.



Then I drive back along the ridge so I have absolute minimal exposure and finish him off with easy cupola shots.



Now, anyone notice what's happened in the last minute whilst I fought those two?

Yep, the lemmingtrain has done what lemmingtrains do and crumbled at the first hint of resistance and this 68% win chance game is all of a sudden looking pretty balanced.



Our KV-1 finishes off the enemy one (stock gun vs. derp gun, a duel for the ages), but himself gets chewed up by dpm from the Matilda BP. We're down to two lemmings now, and they're suddenly not very happy about their situation, in fact they're clinging to a rock for dear life, don't expect them to move.

I set off south but the enemy tanks are closing in.



The Birch Gun is spotted as I make my way in, but I don't get to bring justice to the scumbag. Oh well, next time arty, next time.



The Japanese tanks are not terribly quick, and it becomes evident that I am not going to get there in time.



And indeed I don't, not only do I not get there in time my lemmings have inflicted barely any damage on the opponents, so it's now me and arty vs. two full health mediums.




I catch the rear of the Matilda BP, put my DPM to work on him and retreat down the ridge as he manages to get his gun on me.



He puts one into me, but I put four into him and he's done. My position on the ridge keeps the 3002D from joining in, so instead of a 2vs1 fight this is two 1vs1s.



I peek up, trade a shot with the 3002D. In theory I could sit here and have a DPM race with him, I have a solid DPM advantage and about even health but the 3002D has some cheeky angles and my advantage isn't so big I can afford bounces.



So I pull back down. I have arty support he doesn't. He comes out of his rock to come after me. You can see from this angle how hard it would have been for him to support the Matilda against me.



I pop him with another as he comes



A third, trading for a second hit from him. If I'd tried a DPM race this would be basically three to three now.



He knows no fear or common sense though, so he charges right over the ridge, takes another shot from me as he does so, and rams himself to death getting a final 230 damage on me.

68% chance to win game comes down to two mediums and a bottom tier arty. Sure, the prediction was accurate in the end, but only because I kept my head and didn't go full potato.

You never go full potato.

[otakuryoga]

and that shows both sides of why i despise XVM

60+% win chance
side at disadvantage: starts bitching before a shot is fired and many just suicide or go afk
side with advantage: many say "easy game" and turn their brains off thus making it NOT an easy game

[Eldariel]

and that shows both sides of why i despise XVM

60+% win chance
side at disadvantage: starts bitching before a shot is fired and many just suicide or go afk
side with advantage: many say "easy game" and turn their brains off thus making it NOT an easy game

That's not really XVM tho; the point of XVM are the player stats. The "win rate" is actually just average WN8 divided by average WN8, which any statistician can tell you paints a completely useless picture of the actual chance of victory (because it doesn't, among others, emphasize the WN8 by who has an OP tank/tank very well suited for the map, how high each WN8 tier is, how well-upgraded each tank is, how good each player is in their particular tank, and then there are the inherent problems with WN8 rating too).

As such, at least from people I know nobody has the Win Rate shown in the start; you can make much better estimates yourself since you can account for all the relevant information including some that is hard to code in numbers (tank/map compatibility for instance). Every one of them still uses XVM itself tho; the information is just way too convenient to pass up on.

[GloatingSwine]

Statistically, the winrate calculation in XVM is actually reasonably accurate, but a 68% chance to win is still losing nearly one in three times. It's when people forget that (and as in that game, the people who do that are usually greens) that 68% win turns into a loss.

What XVM is useful for is knowing who on the enemy team is dangerous and being able to predict what they're likely to do.

[Eldariel]

Statistically, the winrate calculation in XVM is actually reasonably accurate, but a 68% chance to win is still losing nearly one in three times. It's when people forget that (and as in that game, the people who do that are usually greens) that 68% win turns into a loss.

Honestly, I could write a better algorithm for calculating an actually useful win chance in my sleep... We're talking an extremely simplistic system right now that barely considers any variables aside from players' lifetime performance. Even moving to 1000-game would be a huge improvement (60-day except that doesn't really work with only periodically active players).

What XVM is useful for is knowing who on the enemy team is dangerous and being able to predict what they're likely to do.

Aye, definitely. It's also useful for knowing who you can expect to support you or know the basics of teamplay from your team, and with whom you can expect reasonable levels of cooperation.

[GloatingSwine]

Honestly, I could write a better algorithm for calculating an actually useful win chance in my sleep... We're talking an extremely simplistic system right now that barely considers any variables aside from players' lifetime performance. Even moving to 1000-game would be a huge improvement (60-day except that doesn't really work with only periodically active players).

It's using the only data it's got though. XVM doesn't maintain a historical database to pull recent performance from, it just snapshots every player every 12 days (4 days if you use it yourself) and old data is junked (because there are 40+ million accounts and XVM polls all of them, the database would be too large to do anything else. Wotlabs and Noobmeter only have historical performance for players who are queried regularly, cutting their database size to manageable levels).

As I said though, people have tracked it over the course of a large number of games and it holds up reasonably.

[Eldariel]

It's using the only data it's got though. XVM doesn't maintain a historical database to pull recent performance from, it just snapshots every player every 12 days (4 days if you use it yourself) and old data is junked (because there are 40+ million accounts and XVM polls all of them, the database would be too large to do anything else. Wotlabs and Noobmeter only have historical performance for players who are queried regularly, cutting their database size to manageable levels).

As I said though, people have tracked it over the course of a large number of games and it holds up reasonably.

It's most unfortunate. That said, it naturally holds up on averages (since that correlates strongly with WN8) but I suppose I'll have to refrain from commenting on the individual matches until I can see the proper statistics.