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  1. - Top - End - #961
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by Talesin View Post
    Has anyone played him as a successful AD carry?
    I have a couple of games, but Djinn's our resident expert on AD carrying, so I'll let him blabber on about 'dat rat.
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  2. - Top - End - #962
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by Talesin View Post
    I wouldn't have a problem with twitch if every single twitch player i've ever seen just doesn't bother last hitting like an ad carry should. You can get fed by just snowballing all the lanes but frequently I find they just can't do that against people who are intelligent and then they can't fall back on their last hits.

    Has anyone played him as a successful AD carry?
    Commissioner Gordon, stat up the Djinn signal, someone asked a carry question.

    EDIT:Wow i got Kennened hard, like 5 times on this one.
    Last edited by Dragonus45; 2012-04-16 at 01:49 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #963
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    Commissioner Gordon, stat up the Djinn signal, someone asked a carry question.

    EDIT:Wow i got Kennened hard, like 5 times on this one.
    Actually thinking back over it I do remember reading Djinn's guide a while back and reading a discussion he had a few threads back about it. I do see him as a good AD carry, he's got a good kit and if utilized properly I could see him being extremely effective in the AD carry role.

    Just everyone who plays him seems to 'not do it properly' and end up being ineffective by the mid game and useless at the end game, the point in the game where realistically you should shine as twitch. I think I own twitch so I might give him a go.

    Edit: Played some premade 5s with some friends and they told me to go AD as no-one else fancied it so I picked Ashe. Stole a dragon with an Ashe arrow and managed to hit 3 long range stuns from across the map by predicting where people would run after engagements started. Totally forgot how much fun she is to play
    Last edited by Talesin; 2012-04-16 at 05:40 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #964
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    I've believed for a while now that at a level <1800 or so, twitch is the best champion in the game. Countering him is subtle and requires a lot of experience against him, because he has the threat of ganks and it's dangerous to let him farm.

    At around 1800, there are a bunch of twitch mains, one for each role - I think Vampyro goes bot, aznwiseguy goes mid, I've seen at least one top, and Megashield used to play a twitch jungle. He tends to start doran's blade, sneak up behind his opponent, and 1v1 them successfully.

    I think his weakest lane is bot, because he's pretty weak in a lane where you have to last hit constantly. His range is low and he has bad poke, so the likes of Corki can just Q + auto him all day. The best way to run him bot is probably with soraka or janna, and try to just farm defensively.
    Last edited by Laudandus; 2012-04-16 at 06:21 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #965
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Play two ranked games, lose one, lose 40 elo. Win another, gain 26 elo.

    Truth resists simplicity.

  6. - Top - End - #966
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    I now have an ELO for the first time ever. Only problem is I have absolutly no idea what it actually means. So, 1359, good? bad? ugly?

    I assume that my elo won't settle down at the correct value for some time since I gained 38 from my 10th game alone, how long does it usually take until you settle at the correct elo?
    Last edited by Kzickas; 2012-04-16 at 08:53 AM.
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  7. - Top - End - #967
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kzickas View Post
    I now have an ELO for the first time ever. Only problem is I have absolutly no idea what it actually means. So, 1359, good? bad? ugly?

    I assume that my elo won't settle down at the correct value for some time since I gained 38 from my 10th game alone, how long does it usually take until you settle at the correct elo?
    Puts you in the top 25% of players according to Lol wiki (Here) but take that as you want. From my personal experience my rating started about 1300, went up to 1459, then I had an awful run of games losing 13 of the next 15 and a fair few more of the next say dropping me below 1200.

    I've managed to even out my win losses at around 1300 but I think my understanding of the game has improve drastically since I started playing ranked so i'm hoping it'll go up over time. I would say to get a precise reading of your elo you'll probably need upwards of 100 games but to get it within a near enough range 50 or so should do.

  8. - Top - End - #968
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kzickas View Post
    I now have an ELO for the first time ever. Only problem is I have absolutly no idea what it actually means. So, 1359, good? bad? ugly?

    I assume that my elo won't settle down at the correct value for some time since I gained 38 from my 10th game alone, how long does it usually take until you settle at the correct elo?
    ELO gain is scaled down as you play more games. After about 20 games, you start gaining/losing ~20 ELO/game, and it drops down to about 12 after about 40-50 games.
    Really though, you settle into the correct ELO as you play more games, like any rating system.
    1359 is... high bronze. I'd call it average-good. It means you probably won about 6-7 of your first 10 games. Generally this means you got a bit lucky with teams/have decent mechanics. 1200 is supposed to be the midpoint of ELO (about 25% of the playerbase is above this, as I recall), 1600 is something like upper 5% of playerbase, 1900+ is top 0.3% as I recall.

  9. - Top - End - #969
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by Even Human View Post
    Play two ranked games, lose one, lose 40 elo. Win another, gain 26 elo.

    You managed to hit the turn point where the increased elo gains are reduced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kzickas View Post
    I now have an ELO for the first time ever. Only problem is I have absolutly no idea what it actually means. So, 1359, good? bad? ugly?

    I assume that my elo won't settle down at the correct value for some time since I gained 38 from my 10th game alone, how long does it usually take until you settle at the correct elo?
    I wouldn't say anything at all before 100 games. 1400 is decent; means you're better than most. Of course, players there aren't exactly good, but they aren't really terrible either.
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  10. - Top - End - #970
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    So... AD bruiser nunu. Sunfire, Bveil, Atmas, Reverie... am I missing something, or in a game where you get 10/5/27 against an all-AD team with exactly two interrupts, is that a pretty good build?

    Might be worth mentioning that we were 4v5 for a good portion of it, lost a few teamfights, then after the 5th person came back, we aced them in 3 (possibly 4) consecutive fights... twice without our 5th person in the area.

  11. - Top - End - #971
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    Paging Djinn In Tonic, Djinn In Tonic to the League thread please.
    Roger that, tyckspoon. Djinn In Tonic reporting to the League thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by TechnOkami View Post
    I have a couple of games, but Djinn's our resident expert on AD carrying, so I'll let him blabber on about 'dat rat.
    Blabber blabber blabber.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    Commissioner Gordon, stat up the Djinn signal, someone asked a carry question.
    Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's a highball glass with a slice of lime! It's DJINN IN TONIC!

    ...*ahem*

    Right. AD Carry Twitch. Twitch is actually a really strong AD carry. As we saw from Arb's AD Carry Table, Twitch's total damage output is second only to Sivir's. Sadly, new Twitch is slightly harder to itemize: on old Twitch, you got boatloads of free Attack Speed, which let you build basically straight damage and a Madred's Bloodrazor for instant shredding of pretty much everyone ever. Fun times.

    New Twitch likes a mix of things, although he again loves damage, damage, and more damage, mixed with a bit of attack speed. He's really squishy, and, in this day and age of painful, painful lanes (top lane heavy bruisers, jungle-invade bruisers, carry/support bot lane combos), I'd start with boots and several Doran's Blades as your initial build, with a Wriggles if you really need it (i.e. if you're losing the lane hard, or you're jungling and want more speed), because Twitch wants as much farm as possible.

    Your core items are boots (Zerker's or Mobility...not Treads, since a caught Twitch is a dead Twitch, CC reduction or not), Infinity Edge, and Black Cleaver (AD? AS? Armor shred to an entire team when you Ult? Yes please). I would also get Madred's Bloodrazor, Bloodthirster, Phantom Dancer, and/or Defensive Items (only Frozen Mallet or Banshee's Veil her...others aren't really worth it on Twitch) if you need them. Madred's against tanky teams, otherwise you probably want 1-2 Bloodthirsters and 1-2 Phantom Dancers to taste.

    Twitch is about positioning, positioning, and positioning. Your stealth is nice, but think of it as an Attack Speed booster that *happens* to have an escape stuck on...you want to be aggressive with it more often than cautious with it, although it *can* save your life. Also save your Ult for when you can use it most efficiently, unless the extra damage is needed to keep you alive.

    The real issue Twitch has is that there's no good lane for him...so my guide must really stop here. Many tops stomp him flat, mids will eat him alive, he's a slow jungler who you can counter easily, and he's also trodden on by many bot comps. I'll see if I can play a bit more Twitch over the next few weeks and get back to you with some more first-hand experience with Twitch in the current game.

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  12. - Top - End - #972
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Any Nocturne tips? I jungled him for my first game and got... 3/4/4, I think... Not entirely sure, and away from home at the moment.

    On the other hand, the entire enemy team went to my blue, stole it, and killed one of the people who was guarding it before it spawned (on the midlane side of the enclosure, in that long bush). Everyone else got away, but that was quite crippling.
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  13. - Top - End - #973
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    I wouldn't say anything at all before 100 games. 1400 is decent; means you're better than most. Of course, players there aren't exactly good, but they aren't really terrible either.
    I've always found where people consider "good" to be interesting, since it massively depends on who you are comparing it to. The fact that a lot of times, pre 1400 (e.g. 90% of the playerbase) isn't considered "good", and sometimes even pre 1600 (about the top 2-3%) isn't considered good, is really interesting to me. While I can understand the "I'm already playing with people who are stupid sometimes, so the people below my Elo have to be really bad concept," at some point it seems like you have to say "yeah, 90% of the people actually playing ranked games probably aren't all mediocre or worse."
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  14. - Top - End - #974
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    Roger that, tyckspoon. Djinn In Tonic reporting to the League thread.



    Blabber blabber blabber.



    Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's a highball glass with a slice of lime! It's DJINN IN TONIC!

    ...*ahem*

    Right. AD Carry Twitch. Twitch is actually a really strong AD carry. As we saw from Arb's AD Carry Table, Twitch's total damage output is second only to Sivir's. Sadly, new Twitch is slightly harder to itemize: on old Twitch, you got boatloads of free Attack Speed, which let you build basically straight damage and a Madred's Bloodrazor for instant shredding of pretty much everyone ever. Fun times.

    New Twitch likes a mix of things, although he again loves damage, damage, and more damage, mixed with a bit of attack speed. He's really squishy, and, in this day and age of painful, painful lanes (top lane heavy bruisers, jungle-invade bruisers, carry/support bot lane combos), I'd start with boots and several Doran's Blades as your initial build, with a Wriggles if you really need it (i.e. if you're losing the lane hard, or you're jungling and want more speed), because Twitch wants as much farm as possible.

    Your core items are boots (Zerker's or Mobility...not Treads, since a caught Twitch is a dead Twitch, CC reduction or not), Infinity Edge, and Black Cleaver (AD? AS? Armor shred to an entire team when you Ult? Yes please). I would also get Madred's Bloodrazor, Bloodthirster, Phantom Dancer, and/or Defensive Items (only Frozen Mallet or Banshee's Veil her...others aren't really worth it on Twitch) if you need them. Madred's against tanky teams, otherwise you probably want 1-2 Bloodthirsters and 1-2 Phantom Dancers to taste.

    Twitch is about positioning, positioning, and positioning. Your stealth is nice, but think of it as an Attack Speed booster that *happens* to have an escape stuck on...you want to be aggressive with it more often than cautious with it, although it *can* save your life. Also save your Ult for when you can use it most efficiently, unless the extra damage is needed to keep you alive.

    The real issue Twitch has is that there's no good lane for him...so my guide must really stop here. Many tops stomp him flat, mids will eat him alive, he's a slow jungler who you can counter easily, and he's also trodden on by many bot comps. I'll see if I can play a bit more Twitch over the next few weeks and get back to you with some more first-hand experience with Twitch in the current game.
    Oh my god Djinn, your top comments had me laughing!
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    Twitch buisness
    Twitch is actually an awesome jungler. I'm still stomping ~1600-1700 elo ranked with him. Not control like shyv/mundo, but one of (if not the) most potent gankers in the game, and when fed, as stated previously, one of the highest damagers in the game. You can melt enemies in teamfights.

    Spoiler
    Show


    Proof for the pudding.

    Dorans for stomping lanes and jungle sustain (2 or 3), Zeal, IE, PD, Cleaver, then it's situational.

    Also, playing Boomtown Rats- I don't like Mondays increases your twitch winchance by 200%.
    Last edited by Nargan; 2012-04-16 at 11:34 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #976
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nargan View Post
    Twitch is actually an awesome jungler. I'm still stomping ~1600-1700 elo ranked with him. Not control like shyv/mundo, but one of (if not the) most potent gankers in the game, and when fed, as stated previously, one of the highest damagers in the game. You can melt enemies in teamfights.

    Spoiler
    Show


    Proof for the pudding.

    Dorans for stomping lanes and jungle sustain (2 or 3), Zeal, IE, PD, Cleaver, then it's situational.

    Also, playing Boomtown Rats- I don't like Mondays increases your twitch winchance by 200%.
    See, I differentiate Jungler from Ganker. Shaco, for example, isn't the best jungler, but he's a DEADLY ganker. Twitch is in the same category, but his jungle is much less safe that Shaco's, which really makes him an all-or-nothing jungler (somewhat guesswork...haven't tried it lately myself). If you get going, yes...it's brutal. Hence why Mario and I used to swap Twitch in for the jungler spot once I'd farmed bot a bit, which meant I didn't have to rely on ganks to get started on my build.

    From your screenshot though...well, their top (who I assumed you got a number of kills on, given his deaths) apparently never bought wards...and you NEED to buy vision wards if Twitch is ganking. So that seems less of an indicator of general use of jungle Twitch (I'm not saying it does work...see above), but more that in this case your opponents didn't know how to prevent Twitch ganks. His problem is that the ganks are somewhat easily preventable, he's very squishy, and you can jungle invade him with relative impunity, as Twitch can't 1v1 most control junglers until VERY late in the game.

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  17. - Top - End - #977
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    See, I differentiate Jungler from Ganker. Shaco, for example, isn't the best jungler, but he's a DEADLY ganker. Twitch is in the same category, but his jungle is much less safe that Shaco's, which really makes him an all-or-nothing jungler (somewhat guesswork...haven't tried it lately myself). If you get going, yes...it's brutal. Hence why Mario and I used to swap Twitch in for the jungler spot once I'd farmed bot a bit, which meant I didn't have to rely on ganks to get started on my build.

    From your screenshot though...well, their top (who I assumed you got a number of kills on, given his deaths) apparently never bought wards...and you NEED to buy vision wards if Twitch is ganking. So that seems less of an indicator of general use of jungle Twitch (I'm not saying it does work...see above), but more that in this case your opponents didn't know how to prevent Twitch ganks. His problem is that the ganks are somewhat easily preventable, he's very squishy, and you can jungle invade him with relative impunity, as Twitch can't 1v1 most control junglers until VERY late in the game.
    I'm not saying they're not stupid, they were VERY stupid. Renekton did buy lots of wards, he also got assist first blood. But with twitch there is usually a small hole in enemy ward coverage at my elo which you just slip through and go for the kill. And as for 1v1, I never 1v1 as twitch unless they are very low hp. I don't like fair fights ^^

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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nargan View Post
    I'm not saying they're not stupid, they were VERY stupid. Renekton did buy lots of wards, he also got assist first blood. But with twitch there is usually a small hole in enemy ward coverage at my elo which you just slip through and go for the kill. And as for 1v1, I never 1v1 as twitch unless they are very low hp. I don't like fair fights ^^
    Well, as with all stealth characters...stupidity < easily counterable stealth.

    And my point with the 1v1ing is that if someone decides they want your jungle? There's not much you can do about it aside from running away and falling behind. So yeah...it can work incredibly well. But jungle Twitch is really, really banking on it working...and I just can't honestly recommend it for the vast majority of players/teams in the vast majority of situations.

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  19. - Top - End - #979
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    Well, as with all stealth characters...stupidity < easily counterable stealth.

    And my point with the 1v1ing is that if someone decides they want your jungle? There's not much you can do about it aside from running away and falling behind. So yeah...it can work incredibly well. But jungle Twitch is really, really banking on it working...and I just can't honestly recommend it for the vast majority of players/teams in the vast majority of situations.
    When someone decides they want my jungle, I usually ping for my team to come as i'm sitting there invisible, and we get a free kill. But I think that while solo queue exists, twitch will always have a home, because people are sloppy, and think of themselves as more important than the team, so no one wants to bite the bullet and buy a lot of wards and oracles if they die again and again. But I agree with you that in arranged, twitch isn't very viable anymore.

    Kind of makes me miss the meta where twitch was mid ^^

    ENd note: I recommend him for pubstomping your way to 1700, beyond that veil I know not, but I intend to try ;)

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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    so I bought Kog'Maw on a whim and I found that he's quite fun provided I'm on blue team

    if I am on purple team he is the world's most stressful champion to play


    So I am going to ask something now:
    would it be feasible and/or easy to implement an option similar to the minimap flipper (for those unfamiliar, it's for people who come from other RTSs/AoSs where the minimap is on the right, it swaps items and the minimap) which puts your abilities, items and map at the top, with the score and time at the bottom?
    BANG → !
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwertystop View Post
    Any Nocturne tips? I jungled him for my first game and got... 3/4/4, I think... Not entirely sure, and away from home at the moment.
    Wolves-blue start, as normal for junglers. I start Boots-3 every time and I get away fine, even if I am invaded or my jungle is stolen, but go cloth-5 if you're unsure. Gank at 4 as always. Best look to Zach's jungle guide for runes, but I'm pretty sure it's AD/Arpen Reds, Armour yellows, AS Blues (or Mr/lvl) and Arpen/AD Quints. I'm assuming QWQEQ levelling, max order then being R>Q>E>W.

    During ganks, you want to either hold back your Q until you can readily preduct where they are going to go (therefore giving you a free hit) or until the lane can assist you with some CC, also giving you a free hit and therefore speed boost. It is recommended, especially when ganking mid, to immediately W as you go in lane to prevent CC and/or damage, and then immediately E'ing them to force a flash or to put on more CC. If you have red, not counterganked or not on low health, this should turn into an easy kill, and often will result in a kill anyway. Ulting into a lane is recommended when there is already a fight in that lane, and is handy for counterganks, or when you have communicated to your team that you will gank. Do not ult in without notifying your teammates, as more often than not they will not expect it and therefore may end up abandoning you to a 2vs1.

    Get Wriggle's quickly, as well as getting wards and stuff. If you find that your top bruiser/AD carry is getting fed, and that you need a tankier jungler progress into HoG and Merc Treads and more wards. Otherwise, go Phage->merc treads. It is then advised to get a negatron cloak or a wit's end if income is high enough, and then progress into a mallet+impaler. Build a pure defensive item as necessary, and then top it off with Bloodthirster/Infinity/Phantom Dancers. I believe it is also popular to go brutalizer->youmou's after Wriggle's and boots2, but I personally think that this leaves you too squishy to carry out your role in teamfights. However, it is probably doable if a giant's belt is bought in favour of a phage and then youmou's is purchased, but I haven't tried this so no guarantees on how quickly you get blown up.

    Alternatively, you can play noc top like me. Advantages of this is that you can get more farm in order to build wit's and phage by the teamfight phage at the very least. Whilst you are ALWAYS pushing up to their tower, you will also be reliably farming every single minion in every wave by level 7 or so, and winning trades with the majority of tops (exceptions include renekton, riven, garen possibly and ryze). He also has a movespeed buff, spellshield and fear to make sure he really can't be ganked (with proper warding, hardly anyone can force him to even flash). It also allows you to have a jungler who isn't so affected by invasions, is more reliable in ganks and generally doesn't need as much farm to function to their role (Lee sin and Mundo say hi)

    Hope this helps
    Last edited by shadowwalker64; 2012-04-16 at 01:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowwalker64 View Post
    Wolves-blue start, as normal for junglers. I start Boots-3 every time and I get away fine, even if I am invaded or my jungle is stolen, but go cloth-5 if you're unsure. Gank at 4 as always. Best look to Zach's jungle guide for runes, but I'm pretty sure it's AD/Arpen Reds, Armour yellows, AS Blues (or Mr/lvl) and Arpen/AD Quints. I'm assuming QWQEQ levelling, max order then being R>Q>E>W.
    I run Attack Speed reds, Armor yellow, MR/level blue, AD quints. Start Vamp Scepter, WQW, add E when you want to gank. (This is a fairly farm-centric start; Wolves-Blue-Wraiths-Wolves-Red-minigolems or Wraiths to 4, look for a gank opportunity. Boots start with earlier E if you want to do a faster gank, but Nocturne really benefits from having all his skills so I don't recommend a level 2 gank. It's doable if you want to do Wraiths-> Red -> gank, tho.) Skilling order past then feels like preference to me, as all of Nocturne's skills are pretty useful; I often level the shield, but that honestly probably should not be a priority. I just like attack speed.

    Items are pretty standard tankydps; Wriggles/Boots/Atmallet/Wit's/Defensive to taste (or reserve for wards.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    I run Attack Speed reds, Armor yellow, MR/level blue, AD quints. Start Vamp Scepter, WQW, add E when you want to gank. (This is a fairly farm-centric start; Wolves-Blue-Wraiths-Wolves-Red-minigolems or Wraiths to 4, look for a gank opportunity. Boots start with earlier E if you want to do a faster gank, but Nocturne really benefits from having all his skills so I don't recommend a level 2 gank. It's doable if you want to do Wraiths-> Red -> gank, tho.) Skilling order past then feels like preference to me, as all of Nocturne's skills are pretty useful; I often level the shield, but that honestly probably should not be a priority. I just like attack speed.
    Level 3 gank is probably possible, but I think that apart from shaco, that's just plain inefficient in terms of clearing. I prefer pots start to prevent counter-jungling/unexpected encounters from costing too much in my jungle. While I don't really have a qualm with you getting two levels in shield, I still recommend strongly taking q first, as it gives you the most damage boost, especially if you're running AS reds, where the AS will greatly compliment the AD boost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEACH View Post
    I've always found where people consider "good" to be interesting, since it massively depends on who you are comparing it to. The fact that a lot of times, pre 1400 (e.g. 90% of the playerbase) isn't considered "good", and sometimes even pre 1600 (about the top 2-3%) isn't considered good, is really interesting to me. While I can understand the "I'm already playing with people who are stupid sometimes, so the people below my Elo have to be really bad concept," at some point it seems like you have to say "yeah, 90% of the people actually playing ranked games probably aren't all mediocre or worse."
    It's mostly the type of games you find. For example, 1400 is still the level of elo where a single strong player can practically 1v5 games. That won't happen much in 1600s or 1800s anymore. Classic pubstompers are still incredibly potent in 1400s.

    Peoples' map awareness and warding habits are still extremely inconsistent (to be fair, it never becomes reliable in solo queue but the higher you go, the higher the chance that peoples are competent at it) and in general, the kind of mentality you apply to "elo hell" still functions in 1400.

    That's why I find it hard to call 1400 players "good"; Mejai's is still a strong item in 1400s, stealth champs are absolutely devastating in 1400s and you can't count on your lane coming to help you in the jungle with a ping in 1400s. 1400s tend to be very conservative about Baron and Dragon also (except for the other extreme, the Baronists, who try to force a Baron starting from 15 mins on the grounds that "it's probably not warded").
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    (except for the other extreme, the Baronists, who try to force a Baron starting from 15 mins on the grounds that "it's probably not warded").
    Don't diss man, it's not even warded.

    (joking aside it is still staggering how many times I've jokingly suggested Baron then we've taken it completely uncontested)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Even Human View Post
    Play two ranked games, lose one, lose 40 elo. Win another, gain 26 elo.

    -As you play more games, the Elo changes will be reduced.
    -You may have encountered an unbalanced matchup in one or both games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kzickas View Post
    I now have an ELO for the first time ever. Only problem is I have absolutly no idea what it actually means. So, 1359, good? bad? ugly?

    I assume that my elo won't settle down at the correct value for some time since I gained 38 from my 10th game alone, how long does it usually take until you settle at the correct elo?
    1359 is a quite solid start for 10 games in. It'll take at least 100 games to have much certainty about your appropriate Elo, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by PEACH View Post
    I've always found where people consider "good" to be interesting, since it massively depends on who you are comparing it to. The fact that a lot of times, pre 1400 (e.g. 90% of the playerbase) isn't considered "good", and sometimes even pre 1600 (about the top 2-3%) isn't considered good, is really interesting to me. While I can understand the "I'm already playing with people who are stupid sometimes, so the people below my Elo have to be really bad concept," at some point it seems like you have to say "yeah, 90% of the people actually playing ranked games probably aren't all mediocre or worse."
    I have absolutely no problem saying that 90% of Ranked players are mediocre. Sturgeon's Law.

    That said, I believe there's a very high concentration of Ranked players who've only played a few games at most, and those players are skewing the distribution WAY towards the center.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogmantra View Post
    so I bought Kog'Maw on a whim and I found that he's quite fun provided I'm on blue team

    if I am on purple team he is the world's most stressful champion to play


    So I am going to ask something now:
    would it be feasible and/or easy to implement an option similar to the minimap flipper (for those unfamiliar, it's for people who come from other RTSs/AoSs where the minimap is on the right, it swaps items and the minimap) which puts your abilities, items and map at the top, with the score and time at the bottom?
    Not having the coding to answer, I'll point out that eliminating HUD walls and shrinking the HUD size should eliminate MOST problems. There IS an option to flip the minimap to the left side IIRC, but that probably doesn't help your situation. You probably know and have implemented both of these, but just in case...
    Last edited by Math_Mage; 2012-04-16 at 02:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogmantra View Post
    so I bought Kog'Maw on a whim and I found that he's quite fun provided I'm on blue team
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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    It's mostly the type of games you find. For example, 1400 is still the level of elo where a single strong player can practically 1v5 games. That won't happen much in 1600s or 1800s anymore. Classic pubstompers are still incredibly potent in 1400s.

    Peoples' map awareness and warding habits are still extremely inconsistent (to be fair, it never becomes reliable in solo queue but the higher you go, the higher the chance that peoples are competent at it) and in general, the kind of mentality you apply to "elo hell" still functions in 1400.

    That's why I find it hard to call 1400 players "good"; Mejai's is still a strong item in 1400s, stealth champs are absolutely devastating in 1400s and you can't count on your lane coming to help you in the jungle with a ping in 1400s. 1400s tend to be very conservative about Baron and Dragon also (except for the other extreme, the Baronists, who try to force a Baron starting from 15 mins on the grounds that "it's probably not warded").
    Again, my point is that it's all relative. At the point where most people are fairly capable of filling in the meta, understand how to last hit and how to pull, understand that dragon and baron are important and to follow the jungler to do so (granted, I jungle, so my dragon aggressiveness may be rubbing off there), I'd generally consider them good; they are, without a doubt, significantly above average, being, well, one in 10.

    Also, from when I played up through 1400, I don't see any of the things you listed actually being true. Supports warded bot every game (top was, admittedly, spotty), people were aware of what was going on in the jungle, I never actually saw Eve or Twitch (pun not intended), but I doubt they'd be good, and I also never saw snowballs.
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    So I see in Arb's post that he builds BC/BT/Trinity Corki. How does this stack up with the IE/PD/LW+ early Vamp Scepter build I've been running? I don't really want or expect the actual maths for this, being horrendously complicated thanks to Gatling Gun, but the stats at least come out to...

    BC+BT+TF: 145-185 AD, 60% AS, 15% crit, 12-20% LS, 150 dmg proc, 15-45 armor shred, *assorted extra stats*, 10885g
    IE+PD+LW+VS: 120 AD, 55% AS, 55% crit, 12% LS, 50% crit dmg, 40% armor pen, 10265g

    Hum. Crit vs proc, armor shred vs. % armor pen, and the Trinity slow+health+mana...tough.

    Then again, maybe I should just build BC, IE, Trinity.

    EDIT: Removed the Doran's Blades as otherwise the second build has 6 items before boots.
    Last edited by Math_Mage; 2012-04-16 at 02:13 PM.

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    Default Re: League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogmantra View Post
    Don't diss man, it's not even warded.

    (joking aside it is still staggering how many times I've jokingly suggested Baron then we've taken it completely uncontested)
    Yeah, it's one thing to go for a Baron in an even or a negative position when you have a relatively good chance of pulling it off and good warning if enemy is coming and another to keep trying to force Baron when you're far ahead and the only way you can lose is by giving the enemy team Baron.

    The latter is what I'm talking about; I had one night where I encountered a Barontard and he lost his team every game. Every game his team was leading, he tried to force Baron and got his team aced and lost Baron and the game. 3 games in a row, twice on enemy team, once on mine. I've encountered other members of the same breed.

    Quote Originally Posted by PEACH View Post
    Again, my point is that it's all relative. At the point where most people are fairly capable of filling in the meta, understand how to last hit and how to pull, understand that dragon and baron are important and to follow the jungler to do so (granted, I jungle, so my dragon aggressiveness may be rubbing off there), I'd generally consider them good; they are, without a doubt, significantly above average, being, well, one in 10.

    Also, from when I played up through 1400, I don't see any of the things you listed actually being true. Supports warded bot every game (top was, admittedly, spotty), people were aware of what was going on in the jungle, I never actually saw Eve or Twitch (pun not intended), but I doubt they'd be good, and I also never saw snowballs.
    Supports ward, sure, but top, mid and jungle are spotty at it at best. Hell, many people think it's the support's job to ward the whole map (without even thinking about the problems posed by support leaving the bot for that long to go ward near top part of the river or Baron)!

    By snowballs I'm referring to the fact that it's still very, very easy for an extremely solid laner to just go 20-0 in laning and carry the game alone. That is to say, 1400s still tend to have enough holes in their basic gameplay that more skilled players with even lane match-ups can capitalize on those mistakes and destroy people incredibly hard.

    Twitch...try it for yourself, at worst you'll make the enemy feed you billion gold in form of Vision Wards you kill with your Oracle's. They very rarely try to aggressively control your jungle and make your life a living hell like they should. Eve not so much but even she can be a terror if your team doesn't troll you too hard. Jungle awareness, I dunno what to say.

    In my experience, at least one lane always fails to immediately collapse upon counterjungler. The percentage gets better if you have time to ping but even then some people just go about their merry way in 1400s.
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