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Thread: 3.5 Dominate question
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2012-10-07, 09:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-07, 09:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
I'm pretty sure there's no limit
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2012-10-07, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-07, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
(Number of spells per day of a level compatible with desired dominate) X (Caster Level). Gotta keep track of them.
If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
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2012-10-07, 02:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-07, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
You also need to keep a record of what things each dominated creature strongly opposes, or 100 dominated creatures with unknown ways to break free could get messy fast.
Well that or a random foe with a magic circle against evil could walk in...Last edited by ericgrau; 2012-10-07 at 03:26 PM.
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2012-10-07, 04:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
At this convenient juncture, I refer you to the Evil Overlord List: "48. I will treat any beast which I control through magic or technology with respect and kindness. Thus if the control is ever broken, it will not immediately come after me for revenge."
Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
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2012-10-07, 04:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
My Homebrew Signature such as it is.
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2012-10-07, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
It has the added bonus of automatically letting you know everything the target does, which can snap unprepared campaigns like a twig. If you Mindrape someone with higher checks in Knowledge skills than you (scholarly types, casters of all stripes, spies, etc), see if you can be treated as having their number of ranks, if it's higher than yours. You know everything they do, after all..
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2012-10-07, 05:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-07, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
I would agree, but it says "the caster... learning everything the creature knows", rather than using a verb like observe, hear, or notice. Learning heavily implies retention, while the language which would support your post do not. Listening to a lecture or reading a book isn't learning; getting the information into your head and keeping it there is learning.
Last edited by Slipperychicken; 2012-10-07 at 07:55 PM.
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2012-10-08, 12:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-08, 01:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
Well, the caster level limit is because you can only hold onto control for days/CL. Here's the rules for things like additional saving throws. You have to renew your domination every time the time would run out.
If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
My Homebrew Signature such as it is.
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2012-10-08, 01:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
In practical terms, a half dozen or less, depending upon what the dominated creatures can do, that actually participate with the party, at least at any one time. Usually more like... 3 or less with 4 being more of the edge.
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2012-10-08, 03:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-08, 05:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
It's still basically the same arrangement; the only difference is the exact calculations involved. For example, a Psion 11 (earliest level you can augment psionic dominate for 1 day/level without Overchannel or other ML boosters) would have enough pp for maybe 13 dominates per day, at the very most (and literally nothing else). 13 x 11 is up to 143 dominated slaves, but at the cost of having nothing to spend on emergencies. Or a Psion 13 could Extend the same power and have more than twice as many.
Really, it's limited more by practical concerns and margins of error than theoretical pp reserves.Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
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2012-10-08, 06:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-08, 06:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
A Psion can get the Psionic Dominate power at level 7, but it takes level 11 to use the 4 point augment to get a duration of 1 day per level. At that level it will last 11 days, so you do need to recast it on each person once every 11 days. If on each of those days you recast it on a different batch of people, you can maintain 11 separate batches of dominated subjects, each of which has 13 members. With that tactic, then, you can dominate 11 * 13 = 143 people.
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2012-10-08, 06:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
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2012-10-08, 07:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
Yes, it is also horribly horribly evil, and will likely get you a nice trip to one of the more hellish lower planes for employing it. So unless you are actually playing an evil campaign/character (of 17th level or higher), this should really be reserved for villains.
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2012-10-08, 08:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
If you're a 17th level wizard you probably don't plan on dying soon anyway. Also, quite a few people (myself included) consider the [Evil] tag as completely misplaced on Mindrape.
It can do 3 things, none of which are [Evil] on their own:
-Allow you to read a target's thoughts (Neither Detect Thoughts or any other mind reading spell is [Evil])
-Allow you to modify a target's memories and personality (Modify Memory is not [Evil]; Sanctify the Wicked is a [Good] spell that alters a target's personality).
-Allows you to leave the target affected by Insanity (which is also not [Evil])
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2012-10-08, 08:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
Dominate as in the spell or power normally cast has no limitations, seen here:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominatePerson.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/po...atePsionic.htm
Dominate is an enchantment or a planted telepathy, there's no real connection after the initial instance.
Other forms of mental command such as a rebuke undead would have an HD limit due to it's use of binding oneself to the commanded creatures by the use of negative energy.
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2012-10-08, 09:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
Why bother keeping track? Just use Necrotic Cyst + Necrotic Tumor (or Monstrous Thrall) and maintain a permanencied Interplanar Telepathic Bond with all of your dominated minions (allows you to stay in communication with them all).
Or use Mindrape, but that's not technically a dominate spell, per se.
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2012-10-08, 09:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
Reading thoughts, and instantly knowing everything the creature knows (memories and all) are kind of completely different things xD
-Allow you to modify a target's memories and personality (Modify Memory is not [Evil]; Sanctify the Wicked is a [Good] spell that alters a target's personality).
Also, in regards to Sanctify the Wicked, in D&D Good and Evil are pretty clearly defined. Destroying all Evil is Good. Saving Evil from itself even by force is even more Good (didn't know how to phrase that, haha). It's the act of forcing Evil to become good over the course of an entire year at a great personal sacrifice that makes it a Good spell.
-Allows you to leave the target affected by Insanity (which is also not [Evil])
Of course by comparing Mindrape to a whole bunch of spells one at a time without acknowledging the major differences is going to make it seem like it shouldn't have the [Evil] tag. However, it is not just one effect to be compared. It's the fact that Mindrape is all of those spells improved and combined to be used instantaniously, more difficult to "cure", and more importantly with all limitations removed.
The spell is specifically designed for you to be able to turn someone into your personal hard drive. You can instantly save, erase, copy, modify, format, corrupt, etc their mind at-will permanently (for the most part). To top it off, they don't even remember if you so choose! Better yet, make them insane after you rape their mind as well! Scorpius from Farscape anyone? Even if you choose to just do the most basic function of the spell (the only one you have to do), than you instantly know everything they ever have which is a pretty perverse intrusion of the mind. Imagine how disturbed, violated, and angry you would be if someone suddenly had a copy of your entire life in their head.
That and the greatest reason of all...fluff.Last edited by AlchemicalMyst; 2012-10-08 at 09:24 AM.
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2012-10-08, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
Death? We solved that 8 levels ago. And the Deluxe Version just kicked in. As the sufficiently-paranoid 17th level casters we are, we can kick the lower planes arses literally to Hell and back... if we don't feel like just going into hiding or summoning a horde of angels, that is.
But I agree, it's absolutely broken, and really should be avoided by both DMs and players alike, unless they like truly brutal and unforgiving games. I disagree with the rules on the Evil part, since it can just as easily be used for Goodness (no more Evil than a Dominate spell of permanent duration. It's how you use it that matters).
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2012-10-08, 12:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-08, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-08, 02:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-08, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
Incidentally, Tainted Scholar's can use Mind Rape to turn the lords of the lower planes into paragons of good. Enough Mind Rapes, some remodeling, and a bit of PAO and you've got yourself a mirror of the the heavens down where the sinners reside.
If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
My Homebrew Signature such as it is.
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2012-10-08, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Dominate question
Domination is only evil if it's used irresponsibly. If all your commanded thralls are required to do is come to a predetermined location and give you a report at the same time you renew the effect, you've just created a very reliable info network with a fairly minimal loss of dignity. It's certainly not good, but it's not inherently evil either. Whether your controll over a subject is evil or not depends entirely on what you do with it. Under special circumstances it can even be good.
This whole argument is undone by a single spell; Programmed Amnesia (CAr pg 118). It does everything mindrape does and then a couple more things but it's not an evil spell.
WotC did as good a job as anyone can really expect of codifying something as complex as human morality, but they have a horrible track record of tagging spells appropriately. Deathwatch is evil? Seriously?Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2012-10-08 at 03:45 PM.
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