Relationship Woes and Advice: A Sleepless Fortnight

[xPANCAKEx]

Previous Thread: Relationship Woes and Advice: The Thirteenth Woerier


obligatory copypasta

Welcome to the Relationship Woes and Advice thread, home of any questions you may have: romantic or familial or friendship, we'll answer (or try to answer) them all. Three years old and growing. As Pancake says, this isn't a trade economy- feel free to ask if you have a question, even if you haven't ever given advice and don't intend to start. We won't stone you or ignore you or anything. All we ask is to know how a situation ends up, either in this thread or through a PM.

Here are the basics.

The biggest bit of advice I've seen bandied around is the truest- no matter what else is true about the situation, always be yourself. It's no good to act like someone else, because eventually the true you will come out and the other person will not be happy you hid that from them.

Rules Of Relationships:
#1- Communicate. If you can't talk with your partner, it's probably not going to work.

#2- Be yourself. Admittedly, if you have some really bad habits you should probably try to change them, but be honest about who you are. No one wants to find out they were loving a lie, and no one likes to live a lie (...well, normally).

#3- Accept your partner. In mine, and other people's, experience you have to be able to accept your partner as they are, because they probably won't be able to change. Also, don't change drastically for someone. I've tried it, my friends have tried it, it doesn't work and it doesn't end pretty.

#4- Hints. Do. Not. Work. Or they might, but the chance of that happening is limited. Some people are like me and just utterly oblivious unless it is blatantly stated, others are (also like me) and don't want to assume, and yet others don't care. You won't know which they belong to unless you actually spell out your intentions and/or feelings. I would consider this a corrolery to Rule #1 except that it comes up so often. Do NOT assume someone should know something from hints. Hints, by nature, are subtle. Clue Bats/Crow Bars/Mack Trucks are not. Try hitting them with one of those. ;) (No, not literally. I mean be upfront if you are trying to get someone to know something.)

#5- Don't be desperate. You don't need to be in a relationship and the healthiest mindset is one where you are happy as you are, even if you do not have a significant other. Don't stay in a relationship that isn't good if you aren't happy, just because you want someone. This is detrimental to both parties in the long (and sometimes short) run.

#6- Be a couple. Set aside some time every week to be together. Just an hour, if nothing else, where it's JUST you two. No computer, no others. Just the couple.

#6.5- Maintain the relationship. Ask your partner every now and then how they are feeling, if they feel like the relationship is still going in a good direction, etc. Also, make sure you don't hide it if you have an issue with your partner or a relationship. The only way it can change is if you talk about it.

#7- Let your boundaries be known. This goes for everything from intimacy to what you consider cheating to any other thing you can think of. Pretty much if it's something that would possibly upset you or your partner, let them know BEFORE a problem arises. An example would be letting your partner know you consider kissing cheating. They very well might think only intercourse is cheating. Having that known before anything potentially happens is a good thing.

#8- Know the signs of an abusive relationship. Both men and women can be abusers, and if you recognize the signs early on you are more likely to be able to get out of a bad situation before it gets out of hand. It's never easy, but if you know the general red flags, it can help you to avoid the situation.

Another list - courtesy of Pheehelm and arkady

RULES. YOU READ THESE.
-Anything of a sexual nature, please PM to either myself or one of the regular advice givers. If you just want general opinions post something like: "I have this problem, but it is not board appropriate. Could one of you guys PM me?" I know from experience that you will in fact get help.

-KEEP IT NICE. Disagreements are bound to happen, but please don't be rude.

-Joking is all fun and games, within reasons. Please do not get derogatory.

I decided to put this up because, evidently, it was not apparent that these should be followed. I do not want this thread to be scrubbed again, and we were blessed to get it back.

So please - play nice, and if you're not comfortable talking about things over the open board, PM one of the regulars (too many to mention), and I'm sure they'll be willing to lend an ear - or if you're not sure who to PM, post asking for someone to PM you, and you'll soon get a response

-Syka

Previous Thread: Relationship Woes and Advice: The Thirteenth Woerier

[Superglucose]

FIRST!

To continue the discussion, I love ribs. I should go to WA and make Keld make me ribs.

EDIT:... huh. So I bet she thought I was an emotional abuser. That... explains a lot.

(P.S. that list is ridiculous, calling it "gender neutral" when one of the "warning signs" of abuse is "Negative attitude towards women"?!)

On further reading I am going to formally request that describing that link as "gender neutral" be removed. Keep the link, but remove the part saying it's gender neutral. It's not even close.

[Pheehelm]

I think the "more" modifies "gender neutral" as well as "general." Finding a list of warning signs that even acknowledged women can be abusers was a bit of a feat. At the very least, even if there is a "negative attitude towards women" (and yeah, it should probably have a "negative attitude towards men" thing in there too) item, it still contains a fair amount of "he/she," which makes it more gender neutral than the first link.

[Superglucose]

I suppose that's true in the same sense that Mars is "more habitable" than Venus.

[Syka]

Yeah, finding something that is fairly generalized is difficult. Studies have shown women are responsible for as much abuse (physical and emotional) as men are. The problem is that the harm women abusers inflict is generally not as severe as men do, and men tend to brush it off/not report. So it's a lot more difficult to get a profile for women. Like, shoving within a relationship is considered abuse. Women do this a lot. They are less likely, on average, to punch their partners if I'm not mistaken, though. A punch does more physical damage than a shove (usually, unless you're shoved in to something)*.


It sucks but...best we can do. I'll try to find another one, but it's doubtful.



*It's been awhile since I've looked at the literature, this is what my brain is remembering. It could be off, but I think the intent is correct.

[Superglucose]

The problem is that the harm women abusers inflict is generally not as severe as men do, and men tend to brush it off/not report.

Physically yes. Emotionally I strongly disagree, women are capable of as much damage in that regard as men.

How about this for a compromise: Axe the first link, just leave the second, and remove all claims of "gender neutral."

EDIT: I am not opposed to the list being there... though the first one makes me twitch with irritation, it's still good information. I am only opposed to the fact that there is a "gender neutral" label around it, even if the qualifier "more" is there I don't think it's an appropriate label.

[GolemsVoice]

Quick question, no big deal: I've managed to find myself a girlfriend, and words can barely describe how happy I am. Now I've got the "suspicion" that I am her first boyfriend, "although" we're both 21.

The question: should I ask her? Would this be impolite? I don't want her to feel, well, patronized? or anything like that. It is mostly for my own curiosity's sake.

[Xyk]

Physically yes. Emotionally I strongly disagree, women are capable of as much damage in that regard as men.

How about this for a compromise: Axe the first link, just leave the second, and remove all claims of "gender neutral."

EDIT: I am not opposed to the list being there... though the first one makes me twitch with irritation, it's still good information. I am only opposed to the fact that there is a "gender neutral" label around it, even if the qualifier "more" is there I don't think it's an appropriate label.

I agree with your premise, though i disagree with the first part of this quote. Women and Men (as a whole) are equal in that regard and every regard that is not directly linked to biological differences. People is people, no generalizing.

On topic:
GolemsVoice: Personally, I wouldn't worry about it too much, but that's one of those minor things that almost definitely will offend her a little but she'll shrug it off within a few minutes, especially if followed by a joke.

[Zeb The Troll]

Quick question, no big deal: I've managed to find myself a girlfriend, and words can barely describe how happy I am. Now I've got the "suspicion" that I am her first boyfriend, "although" we're both 21.

The question: should I ask her? Would this be impolite? I don't want her to feel, well, patronized? or anything like that. It is mostly for my own curiosity's sake.

Curious. Why are suspicion and although in quotes?

In any case, my generic advice would be not to ask. Some people would be cool with it, others might be embarrassed by it, others might be offended. Asking out of the blue with no surrounding context could be jarring enough to have an adverse reaction. But, I'd be willing to bet that it'll come up in conversation at some point if the relationship lasts long enough (good luck to you!). Or at least a natural opportunity to ask that doesn't make it seem like it's been bugging you for a while.

My $.02.

[Worira]

Pretty sure a marked difference between muscular strength between the sexes, particularly in the upper body, is directly linked to biology.

[Pheehelm]

Superglucose -- *shrug* It doesn't really seem that bad to me, but if an even more gender neutral list (that's still accurate and useful) could be found I don't think it'd be unwelcome.

GolemsVoice -- I can't help but think the answer might depend on what aroused your suspicion.

[Coidzor]

I've noticed I definitely look better in more worn jeans, like the ones with one big hole over the knee. Those, flip flops, my long hair, a warm smile, a bit of visible stubble, and a slightly (but not overly) baggy T-shirt is definitely my best look by far.

I am going to go clothes shopping soon to get stuff that actually looks good and is summer wear. I have ONE pair of shorts which, judging by the way B was sticking her hand in the holes and grabbing my ass, are a bit too worn for normal wear.

Nope, pretty much gotta only wear those when you're up for a game of grab ass. Also, I'd love to be able to pull off just stubble. I always get trashtalked about looking like a hobo whenever I play around with the scruff.

Makes me glad I've got a kilt, actually. Though, come to think of it, I don't think those really do anything but show off the legs unless the wind is blowing just right....

[Malfunctioned]

To be perfectly honest, Mal, I don't know how much it matters to hear this from a straight identified man, but quite frankly, you look to be the kind of guy I wouldn't mind getting friendly with, if you catch my meaning. The industrial club scene look doesn't do much for me, but I have to say, you're a cutey.

I'm agreeing with MK on this, Mal.

Thanks


Malfunctioned gains +2 to Self-Esteem.


And now so I can actually contribute to the conversation...a good t-shirt that fits well can actually make a lot of a difference in how you look, for instance (because I'm ridiculous bad at explaining things) I have something that could resemble a figure, normally it's hidden behind baggy t-shirts but when I wear one that actually fits....

Seen here when I attempt to lift up my friend.

So whilst us guys only really have t-shirts or other shirts to choose from a good fitting t-shirt can actually change how you look.

[Pheehelm]

On that subject, how exactly is a fashion-inept guy supposed to determine what fits really well and what doesn't? (In the absence of a brutally honest female accomplice, of course. That's too easy.)

Incidentally:

I'm not even sure the shirt/jeans versus suit thing is even really about showing off their body. I think part of it is almost that down to earth, but still looking hot thing. Most guys can pull off a well tailored suit. Pulling off a regular pair of jeans and a shirt can be tougher, especially if you don't know what compliments your body.

Reminds me of your question a few threads back about getting hit on more when wearing a hoody with your hair tied back.

[GolemsVoice]

Curious. Why are suspicion and although in quotes?

Ah, well, suspicion might be a bad translation of a German phrase, where "having a suspicion" means as much as "having the feeling that", and is mostly neutral. And yes, it's really no big deal. Just htought I might ask.

[xPANCAKEx]

On that subject, how exactly is a fashion-inept guy supposed to determine what fits really well and what doesn't? (In the absence of a brutally honest female accomplice, of course. That's too easy.)

do what i did

take a friend whos style you admire shopping with you - get them to pick out a few items, and explain why even if its just a "it will make your legs look better" one-liner. Or even just pick their brains over it in a 10 minute conversation.

Lots of brands also have "style books" - they'll cost you, but you can see how the clothes are intended to be worn to achieve a certain look

and also - start farming through fashion websites or buying magazines

and a further point - if you see an item of clothing on someone that you really like dont be afraid to ask "hey, those are nice ***** where did you get them?" - people will appreciate the compliment and usually be pretty helpful (such as telling you when they bought it, so you'll know if its going to be out of season)

[Erloas]

First I will say I haven't been following these threads much...

As for abusive women, well my cousin has found 2 of them so far and while everyone sees that it is the case, in terms of it being reported... well it never happened.



So a bit over a year ago my brother and his girlfriend introduced me to one of her friends from college and we had been talking online that whole time. We hadn't meet because she lives about 1000 miles away. She was always quick to say hi online but it took a lot of work to get her to actually talk about anything. There was a lot of things she just would never respond to, but I wasn't sure how to take it because I knew she was shy and she had never been in much of a relationship before (and since neither have I, I really had no idea what normal really should be).

I finally got her to get some time off to come visit me and it kind of surprised me that she took 2 weeks off. That was the first two weeks of July. She flew down with her friend (my brother's girlfriend). She seemed excited and nervous to visit, but it seemed like she wanted to. But once she got here it didn't seem like she made much of an effort at all to work through being shy/nervous. And I could hardly get her to talk to me and she did all sorts of avoidance tactics that I recognize from being shy myself. But I couldn't get her to talk about anything and she never really wanted to do anything. It was really hard to read what she might have been thinking, even her friend couldn't get her to say much of anything about what she was thinking about. Other then maybe a few hours maybe 3-4 days of those two weeks did she really seem at all comfortable with me.

Both my brother and his GF said she was acting completely different then she did before and it really surprised them how she was acting.

From my own interpretation what was going on (coupled with some insights from various other people) it seems like she likes me, but she was never really ready for a relationship. She wasn't opposed to the idea of one, but I don't think the actualities of a relationship were something she wanted. I think there was a possibility for it to work had she not been 1000 miles away and we could have started meeting for short periods of time and drawn things out for a while for her to get used to the idea. But I think the distance was too great and she didn't even want to think about leaving her mother and where she grew up. My brother's GF knew her in college and when I first started talking to her she was living with her dad, but for a good portion of the last year she has been living with her mom. From what I've heard her mom is still very bitter about her divorce and it seems like her mom (and maybe some of her other family) act very dependent on her. I can't tell if its her projecting need from her mom or her mom playing the victim, but there were several times when she was here were she acted like her mom was incapable of taking care of some things on her own. (her mom isn't that old, it was things like actually getting someone to repair the AC, or paying the phone bill)

Things basically ended with her never really saying much, but that she wasn't really feeling any connection. (to me it felt like a self-imposed blocking, but its a moot point). She has been home for a day and a half and I haven't heard anything from her. And really since about Wednesday I've known for sure it wasn't going to go anywhere. I've told her I'll still talk with her if she wants, but I kind of don't think that will happen.

Its been really hard for me because I like her, but also because talking to her (even as little as we did so much of the time) and being close to her has just shown me how much I do want to be with someone. Although I've had no real trouble being single pretty much all the time (I'm 30 now), I do want to be with someone. And I can accept that I was more interested in the idea of her then with her specifically (she had a number of quirks that I could deal with and accept but it would have made things a lot more difficult).


So now I have the hard part of what to do next. Meeting women has always been the hardest part for me, I tend to get along with women just fine after that. It was always just the case that there were very few women in my college classes and very few in any of my jobs and the few I have meet through those things have all been involved in long term relationships. I'm not out doing stuff all the time and I'm content mostly doing stuff that doesn't involve a lot of other people. I would also like to meet a woman that is more of a homebody rather then someone that constantly needs to be running around doing stuff. The hardest part with that is those are the hardest people to get together because their at home being content with being themselves.

I really just have no idea where to start. I could try internet sites, but when I tried them years ago it seemed almost as futile as going to a bar to pick someone up. The few people I still talk to my age (friends from HS and college) are spread around the country and no where near me. Most of the people I work with are all old enough to be my mom/dad so not a lot to go on there. The stuff I like doing like camping and fishing are all about getting away from everyone else in the wilderness, and my other hobbies are notoriously male oriented (gaming mostly) and I'm already doing those and there are no women around. I just don't know where to start even looking. I'm not necessarily in a big hurry to jump into anything again, but I figure I should start thinking about it for later because if I wait too long I'll probably not try because it will seem to not be worth the effort (at least right now I can clearly remember why it is worth the effort).

[xPANCAKEx]

Erloas

re the lass: sounds like a non-starter. You've tried, but its not worked out - if anything the ball is in her court. So let her make the effort.

As for meeting other people? try taking up some more socially orientated activities - you'll never meet people if you stay on your own

[MountainKing]

On that subject, how exactly is a fashion-inept guy supposed to determine what fits really well and what doesn't? (In the absence of a brutally honest female accomplice, of course. That's too easy.)

Incidentally:Reminds me of your question a few threads back about getting hit on more when wearing a hoody with your hair tied back.

That's sometimes easy; in the case of not having a brutally honest female around, take a brutally honest (though open-minded) male. Failing that, while it's not a perfect system, you could always try to compare yourself with male models in catalogs. This approach *DEFINITELY* takes being brutally honest with yourself, along with healthy doses of self esteem and realism (let's face it, for the most part, nobody actually looks like that. Damned Photoshop!), along with acceptance of who you are and what you look like.

At the end of the day, maybe a particular look just isn't for you; what really matters though, is what you're most comfortable in. If you're comfortable with how you look, eventually, you'll run into somebody who happens to dig that, and then things (can) develop from there.

And Mal... I'm going to start hitting on you in my head now. I don't know when I'll stop.

[Malfunctioned]

And Mal... I'm going to start hitting on you in my head now. I don't know when I'll stop.

Is there any chance I can sig this?

[Coidzor]

Is there any chance I can sig this?

Is there any chance we can just skip to the hitting on you part?

Re: Abusive women vs. Abusive men thing. Might be able to mitigate a bit of this by having two things, one of just general relationship verbal and emotional abuse and then the one of the physical abuse added in on top of it like a parfait of the eternal chain of victimization.

I think the worst part is the certainty that if they have kids or are involved in the lives of children, then those children will be broken by the interaction and become as bad or worse. Really makes you sympathize with Kore...

[MountainKing]

Is there any chance I can sig this?

You go right on ahead, you. I'll just be over here, hitting on you, in my head.

[Superglucose]

I um... what?

So today was... interesting?

I went to the burger place, about halfway through my meal, SMOKING (we're taking 10-9.5) hot redhead walks in, ad goes to sit down at a table with one really drunk middle aged woman, one middle aged woman, and one middle aged man. I mean gorgeous. I didn't get a good look at her face first but I figured my friend did and so I asked her how her face was. He was like "I dunno." So now we're talking and I'm trying to convince him to turn around and tap her on the shoulder and ask if he knows her. Because they might go to the same school. He keeps chickening out, so I sigh and just walk right on over and do my thing.

Her mom, totally drunk, then says "We were just wondering the same thing!" And I was like, "... wut?" Because I had caught the redhead stealing glances at me, of course. Then her dad breaks the spell... "How old are you?" So after a quick conversation (she works at the same musical theater company my best friend used to work for, but the older woman was insistent that she recognized me...) I go back to my table.

Afterwords Steffy and I start talking and her mom, totally blitzed, keeps going "We were just having the same conversation you guys were having!"

At first I was thinking, "No way." Then I remembered her dad's question ("How old are you?") and I got to thinking, "Well... maybe..."

Oh well we'll see

EDIT: from her first name alone I got a facebook page.

[Coidzor]

Crushes that you forget about and then when you talk to them again remind you of them by causing you confusion as to where your random jealousy of a friend getting a new significant other are... very strange beasties.

You'd think they'd die off from neglect.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

My last girlfriend cheated on me for a month.

The one before left me for a guy back home when I was at college.

The one before that kissed another guy at the mall when we were taking a break over the summer (I was working at camp, and she attended a young adult session there, and us being a couple would have resulted in me getting fired, so we dropped the titles for the summer.)



Way I figure it, the next one's going to try and shoot me.

[Serpentine]

Really? Just from those summaries, they look like they're getting less bad. I would predict the next one to, say, flirt with one of your friends in front of you without considering you might not like it. The one after that should be just swell.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Really? Just from those summaries, they look like they're getting less bad. I would predict the next one to, say, flirt with one of your friends in front of you without considering you might not like it. The one after that should be just swell.

They're going from "last to first" so the next one really is likely to shoot him. So the husband doesn't find out or something.

PS: sorry for being so encouraging

[Serpentine]

Ah. Yes, of course. I still don't think shooting's next on the list, though (though we've already had a stabbing, supposedly ). I think "leaving you on the altar to run off with your best man" will come first.

[Syka]

Supes, I take it Burger Chick wasn't there, though? Either way, blitzed parents are hilarious (when they aren't yours) and kudos for getting the guts to go talk to them.


Maeglin, or you can keep your head up, evaluate the warning signs and learn. :) Even if the red flags were different for each one, it's still a learning experience. The last guy I dated apparently missed the "but let each other know if we are getting involved with anyone else" part to "We're not exclusive". My first boyfriend, right before that guy, cheated on me after over 3 years because he couldn't handle the distance anymore with a girl he'd known a week and was now "in love" with. The crush before him treated me like a piece of dirt.

Current guy? No issues. Part of that I attribute to recognizing warning signs and acting appropriately. I mean..the territory does come with paranoia, but there are still good people out there. It really blows to deal with, though.

I wish you luck.

[xPANCAKEx]

Maeglin_Dubh

sometimes you just have a run of bad luck. As syka said - keep an eye out for those warning signs. Without knowing more about each relationship i cant give more indepth advice

its a case you live/you learn. One thing about growing up is learning to call a relationship off before it gets to the stage of resentment/wanting something else. Or it may just be that you go for a particular type of girl prone to such behavior

i know after 3 it must be hard not to take it personal, but the next lass you date, if you are concerned things arnt going in a positive direction then swing by and im sure we will all be willing to help you as and when we can